[kbk]

Hey,

Might seem like a bit of a stupid question but I figured if I'm going to get help from somewhere I am definatley going to get it from AN.

So the question- Quad core or Dual Core.

The situation- I am looking at getting into a career in editing and so far I've proved to be pretty talented with most programs. I've spoken to my parents (I'm 15 so there is no way i could afford a PM on my own) and they've agreed to get me a suitable powermac to run Final Cut Studio Pro and do Photoshop work with.

What I can see to be the best machine is a Quad Core- 500GB, 4GB RAM, 2.5GHz with slots for more RAM chips. All this came in at AUS$6804.

So is there someway I can perhaps better my machine without raising the cost ridiculously and is what I've outlined enough for what I want to do?

Any suggestions would be REALLY appreciated

[Yontsey]

this should be in purchasing advice

[Ebby]

I just had a big debate with my brother, but technically there is no "Quad core". That would imply 4 cores on a single chip but there are really only 2 per processor. However, there are 2 processors each with 2 cores to get your "Quad". Kinda confusing, but I feel I should clear that up.

Other than that, Minimum RAM, minimum Hard drive. It is cheaper to buy the RAM elsewhere (ramseeker.com) and seeing as you are living with your parents, you won't be filling up your drive with Pron. You won't miss the space, but if you do run out, external 800GB drives will probably be on sale and are better for video editing IMO.

[kbk]

Minimum RAM certainly would make it cheaper(AUS$1000) but I've spoken with some people and they all recommend that I get as much RAM as humanly possible.

As for HD space- to me 250 GB just didn't seem like enough, 500GB would probably suit me but does anyone know whether it would be cheaper to by an external drive later? And is it cheaper to get 512MB stock standard RAM and put some more in myself?

And as for the pron.....I'm a chick :P

[Ebby]

By all means, get some RAM. I only have 1.5 GB in my G5 and use FCP all the time. (I'll probably slap a little more in over the holidays because prices have come down so much.) But if you want to save some dough, don't buy the Apple RAM. There are much cheaper places to get it.

Your G5 uses SATA drives for speed. Those are more expensive than normal ATA drives like those in external cases. Although technically not as fast as the internal SATA drive, they can still plenty faster that anything you will be asking it to do. If you want more space, add a second SATA drive to your G5 when you need. The more you wait, the larger drives get for the same price. I am just wrapping up one of the largest projects I've worked on for a long time. I used a total of 196GB for 11 DVD's. (A whole season's worth of football games for my local High School)

And as for the pron.....That was a joke.
(Apparently my sense-of-humor-machine needs dusting)

[kbk]

I was joking too so apparently my sense of humor machine needs dusting

[Bryson]

What the others said:

Get the Quad if you can, but base spec. That said, you might want to divert funds to the stuff mentioned at the bottom of my post. The duals will just mean you spend longer rendering, which is not always a bad thing - it gives you time to think about what you're doing!

Buy an extra HD later when you need one (fitting it is so easy)

Buy RAM from another supplier and fit it yourself. I'm running FC studio right now, and with FCP, Motion, DVD Studio Pro and Soundtrack open, (and Safari) and running a render in FCP I'm using just over 1.9GB of RAM. I have 2.5GB (the base 512 plus 2GB from Crucial) and it's been fine so far. 4GB will probably be over-egging the pudding, especially at Apple Prices.

The other thing you'll probably want is an upgraded graphics card. The 7800 is shipping now, so maybe you should get one of those. I didn't get one, and while the performance doesn't suck in Motion, I can see how a better graphics card would improve it. I'll probably buy a 7800 (or possibly even a Quadro) once you can buy them separately.

I feel a lot more comfortable editing on two screens.

External HDs (or even a iPod!) might be useful for making your work portable to other machines.

Finally, I swear by my Shuttlepro and my Editors Keyboard. I believe they're available from the Apple Store anyway.

And that's just the computer. You absolutely have to have an input device of some kind. Cameras are ok, but you really want a DV deck of some kind, as the heads wear out quick if you continually shuttle a Camera around. Plus, you may need a camera too. (!) I just bought one of these and the matching Deck, although they are pretty pricey - you can get stuff cheaper.

Also, you absolutely must buy a real Video monitor to output to via your camera or deck. The computer monitor is not good enough for colour correction. At all. No, really. Hardcore people will tell you to buy CRTs instead of LCDs for your computer monitors, but as long as you preview it on a "proper" monitor I reckon you'll be fine. I can't stress the importance of this enough. JVC do some pretty good value monitors at the moment.

Hope this helps - let us know if you need any more help.

[Ebby]

That would be a sweet setup. I still don't get why Decks have to be so darn expensive! Give me a cheap $100 box with a firewire port and I'm happy. I have a GL1 and considered buying a second camera to use only as a deck because that would save money. Turns out the tapes from my GL1 don't play nicely with other cameras.

I agree 4 GB is a bit much, but try to do better than me if you can. I have run into memory shortages though rarely. I only use Final Cut Pro, not FC Studio which is much more complete. (Thinking about getting that though. W/ Student discounts of course)

A big plus on that shuttle. They really help in editing. I also heard the Powermate is handy at editing, but obviously not as customizable. But it has a light

Final Cut Pro is built for 2 screens and can use both splendedly. I only use one, currently a 15" running 1024x768, (OUCH!! My EYES!) since my 19" iiyama died. A 22" is shipping from Florida as I speak. I do disagree with the "real video monitor" request. I used that type of setup when I edited my first video 5 years ago on a Beige G3. While it was helpful and cool, the computer screen has a larger gamut but less saturation. If you keep that in mind along with title-safe borders, you should be fine. Later on whey you work for a company that requires that kind of precision, those components may be provided for you. Nonetheless, always preview the video on a bona fide TV screen before saving the final copy.

[Luca]

Just one point to clear up... SATA drives aren't more expensive than regular ATA drives at all. Apple charges too much for hard drives so I'd suggest sticking with the base hard drive configuration and buying an extra SATA drive to install internally, if you need it. If you need to add external hard drives, that's when you have to start buying regular ATA hard drives to use with Firewire or USB2 cases (Firewire is better).

If cost is at all an issue, you definitely want more RAM and hard drive space and a better monitor on a "slower" computer than the base amounts on a Quad. A dual-core 2.0 GHz G5 with 2.5-4 GB of RAM, 500+ GB of internal storage, and a really nice monitor (or two monitors) will be an awesome setup. Conversely, a Quad 2.5 GHz with 1 GB of RAM, a single 250 GB hard drive, and a single low-end monitor will be kind of crappy.

One last thing... you're getting into video editing and stuff, but is this the machine you're going to be using professionally or are you going to use it for your education? You are only 15, so I am a little confused. I guess you could be going into college early or something. I mean, at age 15 I'm not sure you need a full-blown editing setup if all you need to do is learn the ropes (even an iMac would do for that), but I don't know your situation so I am not sure.

[BFG]

Hey NBK

Firstly unless money is not a problem id suggest you go with the Duel Core. If your looking to be running FCP for straightforward editing and some PS etc then i think the Quad is going to be going over kill.

Also if your serious about this then you need to be spending your money on other aspects of the setup as well - like audio monitoring and storage space. Im assuming your working with MiniDV footage? Are you going to be editing offline or capturing at full res? what format will you be mastering your work to?

Your talking about a pretty pro setup and i was almost blown of my feet when you said you were 15... And to be looking at buying a (or having bought for you) a setup like this at this age seemed (no offense) a little crazy. Im 23 and working in the Industry and still editing and working off a Quicksilver G4. Yes we have suites of G5s and all sorts of goodies at work, but thats because the demands are different and we're talking big bucks.
A big misconception with people is that you can't do good editing without the best hardware around. Thats just rubbish you can edit great work on an imac - which by the way i think would Run FCP and photoshop more than quickly enough for you.

Now unless there are circumstances that I'm not aware off this setup is for education to be honest i would change tactic completely - and i think luca hit the nail on the head perfectly - your talking about a Pro setup for a mac as if your building a Industry Edit suite - i was almost waiting for you to ask whether to go for the black-magic breakout card or the AJA deck.

at age 15 I'm not sure you need a full-blown editing setup if all you need to do is learn the ropes (even an iMac would do for that), but I don't know your situation so I am not sure.

Don't get the Quad. Get the 2.3 Duel Core.. or even the 2.0 - that much power is going to be more than enough. But also get a couple of gigs of extra ram. that setup is going to do everything you need and more.
When it comes to editing most importantly you want to be able to hear and see your work clearly - so i can't stress enough how important it is to make sure you have good monitors for both.

As for the money you (your parents) save from not buying the quad - use it to go on some courses and get some education in the art of Editing and the range of software. make sure that this is what you really want to be doing. I don't mean any offense by any of this - i don't know your situation etc but this is just my input from what i've read.

Cheers

And that's just the computer. You absolutely have to have an input device of some kind. Cameras are ok, but you really want a DV deck of some kind, as the heads wear out quick if you continually shuttle a Camera around. Plus, you may need a camera too. (!) I just bought one of these and the matching Deck, although they are pretty pricey - you can get stuff cheaper.

Yeah we got one of the Z1s at work - lovely camera a couple of problems with it and i was disappointed by its ability to operate in low light levels.



ps, hi folks. been reading these forums for so long i thought it was about time to register and come say hello!

[chucker]

Originally Posted by BFG Firstly unless money is not a problem id suggest you go with the Duel Core.

Yes! Fight it out like a real man!

[BFG]

lol allright, im displamexic, i couldn't spell if my life depended on it

[Luca]

Originally Posted by BFG lol allright, im displamexic, i couldn't spell if my life depended on it

Are you really dyslexic or do you just suffer from internet? Because I guarantee dyslexia isn't as common as you would think from reading what people write on the internet. Most people just have no grammar and spelling skills and never choose to use them or correct any errors. Not because they're dyslexic, just because they're lazy or don't think it's important.

I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying... there's a difference between dyslexia (a diagnosable condition) and being bad at writing.

[BFG]

Hehe. No i am actually your bona-fide genuine dyslexic here mate My writing ability tends to rely 99.5% on the spell checker and 0.5% on pure luck!


Back to the Dual Core though... I just really don't think getting the quad is very sensible. I can't imagine 'kbk' that your going to be really working with enough layers and complex enough compositions to demand that kind of horse power - i might be totally wrong but at 15 when your not doing this for a living thats my gut instinct. Spend the money on RAM and storage - and if you work of MiniDV and your working with vast amounts of footage - look at a deck rather than capturing off your camera!

Cheers

[Luca]

Well you must be pretty happy with OS X for having the built-in systemwide spell check, eh? I'm a pretty bad grammar nazi and even I find it invaluable (can't stand it when I make mistakes!). Regarding the tower, I must echo your sentiments. Even though I already posted this earlier, it still deserves reiterating that lots of RAM, storage, and screen real estate are going to be as important or more important than the CPU speed. You don't want a bottleneck anywhere in your system. Skimping on RAM is a good way to introduce one so just get 2-4 GB of it and pair it up with the best PowerMac you can afford after taking the RAM cost into account. Same goes for monitors and storage space.

I'd like an update from kbk. What's your reaction to our posts? I'm interested to see if she's decided on anything yet.

[BFG]

Indeed i am mate, its a fantastic feature to OSX like so many of them we just take for granted but couldn't do without!!

Me to, also kbk id really like to know a little more about what your doing and what the rig your looking for would be used for - i made a lot of assumptions before in my 'advice' but it would be great to know exactly what your situation is... oh yeah and whether you mad a decision!!

[AndyX-]

Well you must be pretty happy with OS X for having the built-in systemwide spell check, eh?

So whairs taht then? I'm mucked if eye can fnid it!

[Luca]

waht?// yuo cant fidn teh spel ckh??//? o noes!!1

its stipad tho, aple dosent haev ti enblaed yb defalt. WTFUXX??/????/??????~~~~~~~~~~

[Ebby]

Originally Posted by AndyX- So whairs taht then? I'm mucked if eye can fnid it!

Enabling spell cheque is simple. Just look in the System Preferences. Ether that or somewhere in the Edit Menu.

Can't get any simpler than that.