View Full Version : Two interesting tidbits: Intel iBooks and omitted keynote products?
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 18:42
EDIT: okay, I'm officially an idiot...I see that other thread talking about Kahney's story...apologies. I will omit discussion of it in this thread, and just stick to the AppleInsider iBook story. Cool? :(
From AppleInsider, talking about upcoming Intel iBooks (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1460).
AppleInsider seems to think Intel iBooks will show up around April or May, sporting a "low end Yonah" processor (1.6 Core Solo, I suppose?). Sounds like a thinner enclosure and the new widescreen design are still being counted on too.
I suppose even a single core Yonah is a nice step up from the G4, in terms of bus and cache?
BTW, I think the Intel transition will be complete by late summer/early autumn. Everything (towers, Xserve, etc.) will be due for updates by then. I actually think it'll all happen within the next 6-8 months, but Steve is just playing it safe and allowing for an extra four months of buffer...just in case.
He doesn't want to relive that whole "3GHz a year from now" from June 2003.
:)
The "ommited keynote products" bit has been brought up. Sorry Scates.
And as for the iBooks/MacBooks in April-ish, I think most of us assumed they'd be ready around then (or was it just me?). It's the start of the education buying season, the Core Solo is available...
As for the "cooler...much cooler" 12" and 17" Powerbooks MacBooks, maybe we will see that 13" mid-range notebook of mine you've all been hating on...
atomicbartbeans
2006-01-12, 18:45
Kahney's source, when asked if they were 12" or 17" Intel MacBook Pro models, responds with "cooler...much cooler".
Heat buildup-wise or just awesomer? :)
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 18:45
I'm whipping myself as fast and hard as I can... (no jokes, please).
:o
A mod can close this, OR if the iBook discussion still has merit, we can talk about that here.
:)
morningstarrising
2006-01-12, 18:47
Yeah, for some reason I have a feeling that Apple is STILL trying to get the Hollywood types on board and must been working on it all Monday....But just didn't seal the deal...
This wouldn't be the first time this happen...Ask those in Australia :lol:
And of course the iBooks will be thinner(See Powerbooks G4 17 inch) and have a "lowe" chip then the Macbooks Pro..this is Apple.
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 18:50
Don't be a smarty. Of course they would have lower than the MacBook Pro. But there was much debate about its Solo or Duo-ness.
:)
With the Pro models only being 1.67 and 1.83 (when many - including me - were thinking 1.8 and 2.0GHz), there's little chance the new iBook could be a dual anything. Originally I was imagining dual 1.6GHz iBooks and dual 2.0GHz PowerBooks.
Optimistic, I guess...
Yeah...I was hoping Apple would use this as an opportunity to truly kick ass, performance-wise, right out of the gate.
I'm actually kinda underwhelmed. Not at the specs or anything, because from what I've heard they're on par with competing notebooks, but I just thought the Intel computers would be...all-new. Not "Powerbooks with Intel chips shoved inside and a crappy new name."
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 18:58
That was a bit of a surprise.
I was expecting a new design. Or even some major tweaking.
But, then again, the aluminum PowerBooks are as sleek and understated as you could really get. I really like them.
Same with the iMac...it's pretty much been distilled down to the most barebones, logical form. What could they do to it that didn't come across as "redesigning it for the sake of redesigning it".
I'm pretty happy with the current designs of all the Macs. And the only one I'm not 100% ga-ga on - the iBook - sounds like it's a few short months away from a nice overhaul anyway. I can't wait to see what they do with it!
I'm picturing it looking like the MacBook Pro's little brother: sleek, thin and not a lot of clutter or contrasting color (white and gray) going on. But I still think it'll be white though (sorry, I know that a lot of you hate that look). Probably as long as the iMac is.
I agree that the Powerbook and iMac forms are pretty much the logical ends of Apple's "simple and clean" design philosophy - in that way, they're basically perfect.
But I was at least hoping for a new color (on the MBP) or something. Black would look so cool...
Doesn't the Core Solo only come in a 1.66 GHZ model? Isn't that kind of a sucky update for the ibook, considering you have to run most things via rosetta?
Most things as in? By the time they are out we should see a fair number of universal binaries out, and the most important programs for the iBook - the iLife suite - are already there.
Roland:
That's the only Core Solo available now. Many more models (including low-voltage and ultra-low-voltage varients) will be available later this spring - or, about the time the new iBook/MacBook is rumored to appear.
With the Pro models only being 1.67 and 1.83 (when many - including me - were thinking 1.8 and 2.0GHz), there's little chance the new iBook could be a dual anything. Originally I was imagining dual 1.6GHz iBooks and dual 2.0GHz PowerBooks.
Optimistic, I guess...
Apple's clearly shown that they want to protect margins with the MacBook Pro. So don't expect anything other than a single core Yonah-based Celeron M (1MB L2 cache) in the iBook.
Nothing else makes business sense as far as I can see. Sorry to all the people clamoring for a dual-core iBook, but I wouldn't expect one for some time.
morningstarrising
2006-01-12, 19:34
I have a feeling we'll get black as soon as the whole Macbook line is out(Look at the little iPod color bump then the video change).
And I expect the Powermac and iBook to get the most redesign with this switch. That's because the only thing keeping them so big(Heat) is gone....
ARGH!
The single-core Yonah will NOT be called the Celeron. Intel is phasing out both the Celeron and Pentium names - about time, I say.
They gave Yonah an official name, too, so we can stop saying "Yonah."
The dual-core Yonah is called the Core Duo.
The single-core Yonah is called the Core Solo.
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 19:37
Doesn't the Core Solo only come in a 1.66 GHZ model? Isn't that kind of a sucky update for the ibook, considering you have to run most things via rosetta?
All of Apple's bundled stuff, as well as the OS and accompanying apps, are all running natively. Considering the iBook's core market, I don't see this being a huge issue. Pros aren't going to buy them in droves to run Maya or whatever.
Besides, I believe the Universal apps are going to be rolling out at a nice clip throughout the first half of 2006. Adobe, Microsoft and tons of others will probably have their stuff all set to go by WWDC (if not sooner).
But out of the box, it's ready to go.
ARGH!
The single-core Yonah will NOT be called the Celeron. Intel is phasing out both the Celeron and Pentium names - about time, I say.
They gave Yonah an official name, too, so we can stop saying "Yonah."
The dual-core Yonah is called the Core Duo.
The single-core Yonah is called the Core Solo.
So what's Merom's official name going to be called? :rolleyes: It's not an official name for Yonah, it's a branding name going forward for types of Intel mobile CPUs.
pscates2.0
2006-01-12, 19:49
Core Duo Xtreme. :D
Or, being serious, Core Duo 64?
Works for me.
Core Duo Xtreme. :D
That's it... one week ban for you! :p
Oh wait. I can't do that. :D
Core 2?
Or Core 64, I can dig that.
hmmm... Apple Core... ;)
When are we going to see the 64 bit versions? There could another way to do it.
64 bit duo Powerbooks by late '06 with 32bit duo iBooks
originalpckelly
2006-01-12, 21:12
A few people mentioned that they were surprised and disappointed that the new MacBook and iMac look like the older PowerPC based products. Didn't anyone consider how difficult it must have been to design an entire computer based on a totally different processor architecture?
Most things as in? By the time they are out we should see a fair number of universal binaries out, and the most important programs for the iBook - the iLife suite - are already there.
I'd say the most important program for the iBook is Office, given that the majority of people I know who own iBooks are students who use Office every day for their school work (I'm including my wife here as well, who as far as I know has never even started up any iLife package except perhaps iPhoto, but uses Word on her iBook every day).
I would definitely not want to move my wife to an Intel iBook/MacBook until Office comes out as a Universal Binary. She already complains how slow it is! :lol:
ZachPruckowski
2006-01-13, 11:46
I'd say the most important program for the iBook is Office, given that the majority of people I know who own iBooks are students who use Office every day for their school work (I'm including my wife here as well, who as far as I know has never even started up any iLife package except perhaps iPhoto, but uses Word on her iBook every day).
I would definitely not want to move my wife to an Intel iBook/MacBook until Office comes out as a Universal Binary. She already complains how slow it is! :lol:
Really? I wouldn't think it'd be a problem. I don't have slowness issues with Word to any large degree, and I have a 1.33 GHz iBook. If it bumps up to a 1.6 Core Solo, it should be able to handle Office, even through Rosetta. I thought it was only things that did a lot of low-level stuff that'd take the big Rosetta hits?
Really? I wouldn't think it'd be a problem. I don't have slowness issues with Word to any large degree, and I have a 1.33 GHz iBook. If it bumps up to a 1.6 Core Solo, it should be able to handle Office, even through Rosetta. I thought it was only things that did a lot of low-level stuff that'd take the big Rosetta hits?
Well I don't have any particular experience running Word under Rosetta obviously, but clearly anything emulated is going to take a hit. It just remains to be seen whether Word on a 1.6 Core Solo is slower than on a 1.5Ghz G4. She does a lot of work with tables and detailed images, which does cause Word to chug sometimes to be honest.
It's amazing that so many are still stuck on the idea of dual-core iBooks. That's not what the iBook is supposed to be, if you want power go to the Power...erm...MacBook Pro. I hope that the switch to Core Solo lets us see a price drop to $799 for starters and $999 on the high end. At those prices the things should fly off the shelfs, especially with price-conscious students.
Electric Monk
2006-01-14, 20:24
Core Solo is like 30 bucks cheaper then Core Duo at the same speeds.
Now the 1 MB cache versions will probably be more affordable, but they're not out so no pricing info.
oldmacfan
2006-01-14, 20:25
It's amazing that so many are still stuck on the idea of dual-core iBooks. That's not what the iBook is supposed to be, if you want power go to the Power...erm...MacBook Pro. I hope that the switch to Core Solo lets us see a price drop to $799 for starters and $999 on the high end. At those prices the things should fly off the shelfs, especially with price-conscious students.
And if they can do those prices with a Core Duo they would rock the industry.
We will
We will
Rock you
Dell might sell Core Duos that cheap, but based on the fact that the Macbook Pro and iMac prices remained the same I don't see the ibook (Macbook) getting any cheaper.
And if they can do those prices with a Core Duo they would rock the industry.
We will
We will
Rock you
:lol:
Will not happen though. :)
Dave Hagan
2006-01-15, 11:28
All of the speculation over the merger of the iBook and PowerBook lines has become a reality. The iBook will be no more, replaced my the "MacBook," and I think it will have a pretty nice redesign. I would expect the MacBook to somewhat adopt a hybrid of the iBook and PowerBook enclosures, i.e. white and aluminum. I think it will use the Core Duo processor, but the low power variant. I think it will utilitize a lower-end graphics card, and will probably adopt DVI out and extended desktop features, like the iMac, and it should have those features. I expect it to have a widescreen display that is also as bright as the cinema displays.
Two configurations:
1.5GHz - $899
64MB graphics, 60GB HD, 512MB RAM
1.67GHz - $1,299
128MB graphics, 80GB HD, 512 MB RAM
rollercoaster375
2006-01-15, 11:48
Please don't refer to graphics cards by their memory. A 7800 GTX with 64 Megs of VRAM would blow a 5200 with 512 Megs of VRAM out of the water.
pscates2.0
2006-01-15, 11:48
That pretty optimistic, Dave. Any particular reasons? Don't get me wrong...you've just described my next Mac :D
But I don't know...those specs AND those prices? :confused:
I think it would be nice to see Dave's Macbook, but I just don't see the price coming down. That said also think Apple would be foolish to stick a Core Solo in the Macbook, ibook, or whatever they choose to name it. Most likely we'll see either Core Solo 1.66Ghz or Core Duo 1.5Ghz, only because the Macbook Pro has the Core Duo 1.67Ghz, we don't want the lines running that two machines with the same CPU, with the Pro for $1000 more. Its not like the Macbook Pro has FW800 anymore. So the only difference would be a 64MB VRAM card, rather than a 128MB VRAM card.
Dave Hagan
2006-01-15, 14:50
That pretty optimistic, Dave. Any particular reasons? Don't get me wrong...you've just described my next Mac :D
But I don't know...those specs AND those prices? :confused:
1. The era of disabling extended desktop in the consumer offerings is over. *
2. DVI & Gigabit Ethernet will be standard accross all of Apple's product lines. *
3. iBook and PowerBook names will be replaced with MacBook and MacBook Pro lines.**
4. The new iBook replacement, the MacBook, is rumored to use a 13.3-inch widescreen display. **
5. Low-power Intel Core processors will be ideal for this product line for cost and power efficiency. †
6. The new MacBook will feature a completely new eye-catching industrial design **
7. Will be announced around May. **
* My extrapolated reasoning given what we have seen in the new Intel Core iMac.
** Report from AppleInsider ...yup the guys that said in November new Intel Core iMacs and a 15-inch pro laptop at MWSF that no one believed.
† Speculation by ThinkSecret.
All of the speculation over the merger of the iBook and PowerBook lines has become a reality. The iBook will be no more, replaced my the "MacBook," and I think it will have a pretty nice redesign. I would expect the MacBook to somewhat adopt a hybrid of the iBook and PowerBook enclosures, i.e. white and aluminum. I think it will use the Core Duo processor, but the low power variant. I think it will utilitize a lower-end graphics card, and will probably adopt DVI out and extended desktop features, like the iMac, and it should have those features. I expect it to have a widescreen display that is also as bright as the cinema displays.
Two configurations:
1.5GHz - $899
64MB graphics, 60GB HD, 512MB RAM
1.67GHz - $1,299
128MB graphics, 80GB HD, 512 MB RAM
Your right about the current iBook becoming the MacBook, I still don't believe that they will kill the iBook, but rather transform it into something different.
I wouldn't be suprised if we saw a new iBook in black and white iPod style with the following features
1.) ultra low voltage intel processor
2.) a budget graphic card that's powerful enough for h.264, but not suitable for games
3.) no cd/dvd drive (not absolutly needed and saves money)
4.) Wifi enabled
4.) SMALL!
It's kind of a hassle to pull out a laptop in a cafe and so on and if apple could release a small iBook for web browsing, programming, suitable for light photoshop tasks (web resolution) and audio work it sure would be wonderful. Processors are fast enough nowadays to make this possible on a small scale. It sure wouldn't have to be a totally crippled mac.
Laptops right now are very powerfull they're a replacement for desktop computers (no discussion), but I want to see something that's more of a mobile extention to my current Mac.
Something that I can throw in my bag and have no problem pulling out and turning on almost everywhere without people automatically noticing that I've just pulled out my big laptop. I sure don't need a CD and DVD drive when I am on the go and if I really needed one I could use a small external drive.
So this is my guess. the iBook will not die but will be reborn as a ultra mobile iPod like computer. Which will lure a lot of iPod buyers into MacOS X.
Let's hope they launch something like this for 899.
edit:
I don't know if NAND memory is ready for it's mobile primetime yet, but maybe it wouldn't even need to have a regular HDD?
NAND article
http://msn-cnet.com.com/Bye-bye+hard+drive%2C+hello+flash/2100-1006_3-6005849.html?part=msn-cnet&subj=ns_3-6005849&tag=tg_home
It's amazing that so many are still stuck on the idea of dual-core iBooks.
I agree. Only high-end laptops should be getting dual-core processors. However desktop computers, including the mini, should all be moved to dual-core, with the $500 model being the exception and getting Core Solo. If not then Apple should design a totally new headless Mac and sell it for ~ $1000. That should allow them a nice $200 price premium over competing dual-core models like this HP (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=335938&pfp=BROWSE).
All of the speculation over the merger of the iBook and PowerBook lines has become a reality. The iBook will be no more, replaced my the "MacBook," and I think it will have a pretty nice redesign. I would expect the MacBook to somewhat adopt a hybrid of the iBook and PowerBook enclosures, i.e. white and aluminum. I think it will use the Core Duo processor, but the low power variant. I think it will utilitize a lower-end graphics card, and will probably adopt DVI out and extended desktop features, like the iMac, and it should have those features. I expect it to have a widescreen display that is also as bright as the cinema displays.
Two configurations:
1.5GHz - $899
64MB graphics, 60GB HD, 512MB RAM
1.67GHz - $1,299
128MB graphics, 80GB HD, 512 MB RAM
And what will differentiate this from the ProBook? Only the smaller screen? Does that amount to a $700 difference?
I'll sound like a broken record and say the same thing I was saying before MWSF; Core Solo in new iBooks! There is no way new iBooks (MacBooks) will get dual core processors. Count on it.
What may arrive in iBook guise?
I'm not sure that the name is not long for this world. iMac stuck around, why not iBook?
The MacBook also makes sense, however.
One thing is certain -- Intel provides many more CPU options, and this makes for a far greater degree of possible models/differentiations. I wouldn't neccessarily look for this notebooks lines to shrink or collapse into each other, when this in fact represents a growth market, and Apple finally enjoys a supplier that allows easier (cheaper) model differentiation.
Two immediate processor distinctions are possible for mid year.
Merom vs Yonah (Core Duo) -- in H2 '06
Core Duo vs Core Solo -- right now
And lots of flavours inbetween...
Apple was quick to adopt Yonah, so I expect they will be similarly quick with Merom. Though the MacBook Pro has only just been announced, in 6 months, an update to Merom, joined also by 17 and 13" widescreen variants makes sense. (though for entirely pythagorian reasons, a 14" widescreen makes more sense than 13)
That leaves the iBook line free to inherit the 32bit dual core (core Duo).
I see the end of '06 possibly including even more laptop models.
iBooks as large screen consumer models. Desktop replacements, Apple style -- that means not absurdly thick, and with good battery life, but no more tiny screens. 14" and larger widescreens.
MacBook Pros. All out pro machines. 64 bit dual core. Absurdly sexy. At least two sizes. 15.4 and 17".
Mac Book mini. A sub note, Apple style. That means a real keyboard, legible screen, and optical all built in -- with real battery life as well! Innards to be comprised of some Pro features, but pared down to essentials. Less VRAM on GPU, low power versions of CPU, less available RAM expansion. Price premium -- greater than iBooks, less than Powerbooks (nee, MacBook Pro). May not even perform as well as iBooks, but will be radically lighter. 1" thick, 3.5 lbs., 4 hours battery life.
Prices.
14" and 15.4" iBooks 799 -- 1399
Mac Book mini (12 or 13") -- 1499
MacBook pro 15.4" 1799 - 1999
MacBook pro 17" 2499
We're thinking about the same thing matsu, but don't you think it would be more logical if the iBook became the Macbook and your MacBook mini the new iBook.
If they want to have clear product lines there absolutly has to be a MacBook if there's a MacBook Pro out there.
Dropping the iBook name wouldn't be wise, especially since the iPod is performing so well.
As for naming conventions, the iPod isn't a Mac so, duh, it wouldn't have Mac in its name. The iBook is a Mac, so based on Steve Jobs' comment at Macworld, I'd expect it to be called Mac-something or something-Mac when it's revised. MacBook for the lower end and MacBook Pro for the upper end makes the most sense to me. If Jobs' comment "we want 'Mac' in our product names" is to be taken verbatim, there will be no more iBook unless it becomes something other than a Mac.
This seems so obvious. Why would the new PowerBook be called MacBook "Pro" if there is no regular MacBook coming eventually? Um, I guess I'm about the umpteenth person to post this theory in various threads. Sorry for the repetition. :smokey:
5. Low-power Intel Core processors will be ideal for this product line for cost and power efficiency. †
† Speculation by ThinkSecret.
:confused:
How are processors that currently cost more (list price) than the processors being used in the MacBook Pro ideal for an iBook in terms of cost?
ARGH!
The single-core Yonah will NOT be called the Celeron. Intel is phasing out both the Celeron and Pentium names - about time, I say.
They gave Yonah an official name, too, so we can stop saying "Yonah."
The dual-core Yonah is called the Core Duo.
The single-core Yonah is called the Core Solo.
No. There will be a "Celeron" version of Core Solo, only in single core, with a less efficient 533 MHz FSB (despite of 667 MHz for the Core Solo T1300) and 1MB L2 (instead of 2 MB L2 per core in all others Solo/Duo).
Consider also that the ULV variants (Ultra Low Voltage: Core Duo U2300 and Core Solo U1400 and U1300) all with a FSB 533, are NOT Celeron, but expensive chips with the highest performance/watt ratio.
But I don't think Apple will use a Core Solo "Celeron" with only 1 MB L2 and 533 FSB. I think MacBook (iBook) will get a better Core Solo T1300 @ 1.67 GHz with FSB667 and 2MB L2. That would leave enough space for Core Duo in Mac Book Pro.
There will be a "Celeron" version of Core Solo, only in single core
Core Solo is always single-core. That's the very definition of the "solo" part, you know.
There is no more such thing as "Pentium" or "Celeron". The brands are dead.
with a less efficient 533 MHz FSB (despite of 667 MHz for the Core Solo T1300) and 1MB L2 (instead of 2 MB L2 per core in all others Solo/Duo).
That may be, but I bet you ten bucks this low-cost version won't be called a "Celeron".
SpecMode
2006-01-16, 06:11
There is no more such thing as "Pentium" or "Celeron". The brands are dead.
And good riddance. For God's sake, the Pentium was around when my old 486 was still a decent machine! You can only append so many roman numerals before the name starts getting old...
McSandwich
2006-01-16, 06:36
1. The era of disabling extended desktop in the consumer offerings is over. *
2. DVI & Gigabit Ethernet will be standard accross all of Apple's product lines. *
3. iBook and PowerBook names will be replaced with MacBook and MacBook Pro lines.**
4. The new iBook replacement, the MacBook, is rumored to use a 13.3-inch widescreen display. **
5. Low-power Intel Core processors will be ideal for this product line for cost and power efficiency. †
6. The new MacBook will feature a completely new eye-catching industrial design **
7. Will be announced around May. **
* My extrapolated reasoning given what we have seen in the new Intel Core iMac.
** Report from AppleInsider ...yup the guys that said in November new Intel Core iMacs and a 15-inch pro laptop at MWSF that no one believed.
† Speculation by ThinkSecret.
Sounds about right to me, Merom should be ready around May so we should see the introduction of a 64bit 'Macbook Pro.' This would leave space for a top end 32bit core duo 'Macbook'
We're thinking about the same thing matsu, but don't you think it would be more logical if the iBook became the Macbook and your MacBook mini the new iBook.
If they want to have clear product lines there absolutly has to be a MacBook if there's a MacBook Pro out there.
Dropping the iBook name wouldn't be wise, especially since the iPod is performing so well.
I think Apple will do well to keep the consumer "i" moniker. iPods, iBooks, iMacs, iLife, iWork, .mac... People aren't confused by it, they know that the iBook is a Mac. Dropping Power had more to do with differentiating from the currently sold PB's -- regardless of what Jobs may have said.
As for the position of a subnote. An extremely small/light machine typically carries a premium, and those interested in it usually have another primary machine. It is not a cheaper alternative to a consumer desktop, but rather a higher end status piece/convenience item. Making a good one costs more, not less. It may not be dramatic, but look for a mini to cost about as much as a heavier desktop replacement, which is why I fit it in the middle of the line-up -- just like the current 12" PB. Consumers in the market for a portable family machine, student's primary machine, etc... these are usually buying larger screen models from top tier manufacturers, where 15, and even 17" screens rule the day. Apple will offer larger screen consumer 'books.
I would just like to know how the new intel iBooks or macBooks will perform compared to the current powerBooks.
I mean, they must become faster than the current iBooks, clearly. but will they out-perform the current 12" powerBooks?
because I can run final cut pro on that current 12" powerBook for the projects that I'm doing, so a new intel iBook/macBook with current powerBook performance would suit me fine, especially when it will come with a 13" or 14" wide-screen version...
eric.
A new iBook/MacBook will likely outperform current PowerBooks, slightly, but don't expect things like DVI out, lighted keyboards, built-in cameras, dual cores and fast graphics.
Core Solo is always single-core. That's the very definition of the "solo" part, you know.Yes, I know. I wanted not to explain that "Core Solo" was "single core" but that all future Celerons would be only in single core flavor, ie Core Solo Celerons.
There is no more such thing as "Pentium" or "Celeron". The brands are dead.
Look at this new other applenova thread "65 nm Celeron M announced" (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=12994), quoting The Register saying "Intel readies 65nm 'Yonah'-based Celeron M 4xx series" (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/16/intel_mobile_roadmap_q1_06/) (published Monday 16th January 2006).
That may be, but I bet you ten bucks this low-cost version won't be called a "Celeron".
Apparently, "The Core Solo will form the basis for the next generation of Celeron M chips, which are expected to retain the old-style branding".
These new Celeron would be called "Celeron M 4xx" and not "Core Whatever".
Examples:
- Celeron M 410 @ 1.46 GHz, 533 MHz FSB
- Celeron M 420 @ 1.60 GHz, 533 MHz FSB
- Celeron M 430 @ 1.73 GHz, 533 MHz FSB
- Celeron M 423 "LV" @ 1.06 GHz, 533 MHz FSB
Now, please give me my 10 bucks! :p
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 09:09
A new iBook/MacBook will likely outperform current PowerBooks, slightly, but don't expect things like DVI out, lighted keyboards, built-in cameras, dual cores and fast graphics.
Gonna disagree on the camera part. I think that's going to go "product wide", and simply become one of the things ta tmakes a Mac a Mac.
They stuck it in the iMac (plenty of room) and it didn't alter the price. THEN, the went and put it in the new MacBook Pro (thin lid) and also didn't alter the price.
So two things are apparent from that: a) they can stick these into thin places like a laptop lid, and b) they don't seem to use them as an excuse to bump up the price of machines themselves.
I call that "good news", and it makes me think any future iBook (whatever it's called) will have an iSight (as will the next Cinema Display revision).
As for the DVI, I'm on the fence about it. They could include/enable it, and use it as a way to push for more display sales (a 13" iBook and 20" Cinema Display would make a nice at-home combo).
WrestleEwe
2006-01-16, 09:19
GTHEN, the went and put it in the new MacBook Pro (thin lid) and also didn't alter the price.
Yes they did... the Macbook Pro is 84 euro (ex VAT) more expensive than the 17" PB
EDIT: include prices; US$ 2891 ex VAT for the MBP, US$ 2784 ex VAT for the 17"PB. add 19% VAT for retail price in NL.
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 09:34
You'll forgive me if I don't calculate the entire planet's new pricing schemes when only one applies to me. For me, where I live, the 15" PowerBook/MacBook Pro remains at $1,999 with the addition of the iSight and all. Which was my overall point. :)
I can't speak to any VATs in the UK, NL ASAP, PDQ and RSVP. :p
SpecMode
2006-01-16, 09:37
If you're talking about the 'high-end' MacBook Pro, it also comes with 1GB of RAM, 256MB on the GPU, and the faster CPU standard. I don't think the camera figured much (if any) into the higher price.
rollercoaster375
2006-01-16, 10:20
I for one, would hate it if 12-13" notebooks were taken from Apple's product line. I already see that trend taking place in the PC market - Everybody wants to buy a 15.4" or 17" display. But I really don't think that has to do with the display. Notebook manufacturers don't put as much effort into making the Smaller notebooks a decent competetor.
Apple is one of the Few laptop vendors (Along with dell) that offers a decent, small laptop.
Does anybody else think the same way I do here? (I don't want a sub-note, I want a Small Notebook)
They stuck it in the iMac (plenty of room) and it didn't alter the price. THEN, the went and put it in the new MacBook Pro (thin lid) and also didn't alter the price.
Um, well they left out Firewire 800 and 8X burners in the ProBook. Could that be to make up for the added expense of the camera? Those cameras aren't free, you know and on a $999 iBook could well amount to 5% or more of the cost.
I for one, would hate it if 12-13" notebooks were taken from Apple's product line. I already see that trend taking place in the PC market - Everybody wants to buy a 15.4" or 17" display. But I really don't think that has to do with the display. Notebook manufacturers don't put as much effort into making the Smaller notebooks a decent competetor.
Does anybody else think the same way I do here? (I don't want a sub-note, I want a Small Notebook)
We may well see a ProBook 13" down the line, who knows? If not, a new 13" MacBook/iBook will have to suffice. I don't expect one to be any larger, in total volume (cubic inches) than the current 12" iBook.
As for making the small notebooks competitive, I believe it's difficult to cram all of the features of a 15" model into a smaller form and keep the price down to where people expect it.
rollercoaster375
2006-01-16, 10:37
We may well see a ProBook 13" down the line, who knows? If not, a new 13" MacBook/iBook will have to suffice. I don't expect one to be any larger, in total volume (cubic inches) than the current 12" iBook.
As for making the small notebooks competitive, I believe it's difficult to cram all of the features of a 15" model into a smaller form and keep the price down to where people expect it.
The price is part of the problem - People asume that a smaller notebook is worse than a bigger one, so they aren't willing to pay as much for it.
I agree that a 13" iBook will have to suffice, but several people in this thread are saying that a small screen isn't consumer-like.
The price is part of the problem - People asume that a smaller notebook is worse than a bigger one, so they aren't willing to pay as much for it.
Most people, given the choice between a 15" portable and a 13" for the same price would choose the 15. There are a few traveling types, students and those who just want the very lightest, who would choose the 13 but the percentage is probably low. I believe this is why Apple's 12" PowerBook was never equal to its big brothers. Customers expected it to be cheaper, so corners had to be cut.
It'll be the same with new low end MacBooks. Apple can't and won't put all of the features of a ProBook into these because one, they'd be too expensive and two, they would compete with higher margin offerings. Pscates might be right and we'll see cameras built into MacBooks. If so, we certainly won't see standard Superdrives, bigger hard disks or any of the more useful (IMO) features.
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 10:48
Um, well they left out Firewire 800 and 8X burners in the ProBook. Could that be to make up for the added expense of the camera? Those cameras aren't free, you know and on a $999 iBook could well amount to 5% or more of the cost.
The FireWire 800 thing is bugging some folks, but I'm guessing that new card slot thing will provide a solution for that (why Apple didn't just outfit it with FireWire 800 and provide a 800>400 adapter is beyond me...everyone's happy then).
As for the drive, I've read in about five places that was due to space/thinness considerations. Again, an Apple decision based on design/aesthetics, it seems like. Had they made the thing a smidge thicker, I'm sure they would've stuck the other drives in there. Sometimes they get too sleek and stylish for their own good. :D
I still think the iBook will come with an iSight. That's the main point. I don't have any insight to their costs and whatnot, but that's not for me to figure out. I just think it'll be there. It's a great technology and I think it'll start to get used/touted more when it's simply "there" and ready to go for everyone.
And if they don't put it in the iBook, perhaps they could consider whacking the price of the standalone iSight just a bit? It's been $149 ever since its release. Other products have either gotten better/faster OR have dropped in price over the years.
I'm not convinced by the whole argument about people not wanting 12" screens. Around the campus that I work on, probably the most common laptop to see students with is a 12" iBook. In my work the majority of people at conferences either have 12" PBs or 15" PBs. Probably a 3:1 ratio in favor of the 15" (almost all the NASA guys I work with have 15" PBs given to them by work, the 12" are usually the people who chose their laptops).
I haven't seen a single person with 17" PB at any of the conferences in my field.
Anyway - I think there's a decent market for small screen Mac laptops. I'd be very surprised if we don't see a smaller MacBook or MacBook Pro released.
The FireWire 800 thing is bugging some folks, but I'm guessing that new card slot thing will provide a solution for that (why Apple didn't just outfit it with FireWire 800 and provide a 800>400 adapter is beyond me...everyone's happy then).
Actually I thought in general people weren't happy with the performance of FW400 devices attaced to a FW800 port with an adapter. IIRC the performance is nowhere near as good as using such devices on a FW400 port.
Personally I think the Expresscard FW800 route is a fine compromise. I imagine a very small percentage of PB owners need or use the FW800 port. The only problem with the Expresscard thing is that as far as I can tell there isn't a single expresscard on the market yet!
Merom should be ready around May so we should see the introduction of a 64bit 'Macbook Pro.'
Really? I've heard late 2006 for Merom. :confused:
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 10:58
I also imagine a new iBook losing the modem port (making that optional USB thing the way to go). They did it on their most recent iMacs and pro notebook revisions.
So there represent some space/cost saving cuts.
And, of course, the iBook isn't going to have Gigabit Ethernet, card slots and the like (and probably not lighted keyboards).
Who knows what kinds of deals they have in place (savings and all), if Intel is providing full boards and components too.
But I'm confident Apple won't revert to shared graphics OR optional/removable optical drives.
Those are always two things that made the iBooks (and all Apple laptops) stand out from the others. Some people don't like it and gripe about the added weight or bulk it requires, but it makes for a truly full-featured laptop.
I, for one, would hate to have to BTO a combo drive or SuperDrive. If anything, people who DON'T want them should be the ones who have to make an effort/wait a while longer.
:)
And the sting of having the line be a smallish 13" widescreen MIGHT be lessened some if Apple saw fit to stop disabling the spanning thing. Thereby letting people hook up whatever size monitors they want to while at home. That could be something Apple could promote in the new iBooks..."small for on the go, as large as you want when at home" or whatever. 17" CRTs are practically free, and even 17" and 19" LCDs are quite affordable, compared to a few years ago.
And I'm having a tough time thinking of anyone I know who DOESN'T have a spare monitor or some sort sitting around, unused. Yes, ideally folks would exhibit good taste and pair it with a snazzy Apple 20" Cinema Display. But in "real life", anything would work and do the trick.
:)
Even some old Hitachi or ViewSonic 17" CRT in the beigest of beige and the poochiest of screens!
Really? I've heard late 2006 for Merom. :confused:
Merom has been announced for a September 2006 (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/11/merom_to_be_launched_in_september/) release.
BTW, Conroe is scheduled for a July 2006 (http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20051221A1001.html) launch, along its new G965 chipset (successor of the 945G chipset found in MacBook Pro and the new iMac).
And the sting of having the line be a smallish 13" widescreen MIGHT be lessened some if Apple saw fit to stop disabling the spanning thing. Thereby letting people hook up whatever size monitors they want to while at home. That could be something Apple could promote in the new iBooks..."small for on the go, as large as you want when at home" or whatever. 17" CRTs are practically free, and even 17" and 19" LCDs are quite affordable, compared to a few years ago.
That's just what Apple wants to do, sting you so you'll consider a ProBook for more money, if you need monitor spanning and closed-lid operation.
And I'm having a tough time thinking of anyone I know who DOESN'T have a spare monitor or some sort sitting around, unused. Yes, ideally folks would exhibit good taste and pair it with a snazzy Apple 20" Cinema Display. But in "real life", anything would work and do the trick.
You can connect an external VGA monitor to current iBooks; you just can't span them (without a hack).
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 11:27
I'm aware of that. I'm saying make it to where a spanning hack isn't needed.
Mirroring isn't as useful or desired as spanning. It certainly has its place, no doubt. But most people would probably like the increase - not merely the duplication - in working space.
:)
It would be nice to simply have it available, naturally. Minus any hacks (which no newbie or switcher is going to be aware of anyway).
Let's say you're in charge of Apple. You have a nice premium line of portable computers retailing for $2000-2500. You want to offer a smaller cheaper portable for budget conscious customers but you don't want your pro customers to decide they can get along with a budget model for half the price. What would you leave out of the cheaper model to keep it from killing sales of your premium product?
The things that Apple currently leaves out of the iBooks are probably what you'd decide you need to leave out too. Everyone (except the company that sells them) wants all of the nifty pro features in the budget model. It just isn't going to happen.
Each potential budget customer also seems to have their "pet" feature that they think would be ok for Apple to include. Some want DVI and monitor spanning. Others want fast graphics. Still others think lighted keyboards would be an easy thing to include, or dual cores, or Gig ethernet, or 7200 rpm hard drives, or...
I'll be happy if new budget MacBooks have brighter displays than current iBooks. That's my pet feature. :)
Now, please give me my 10 bucks! :p
I will, once The Register turns out being correct.
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 12:13
iDaver, there are eleventy gazillion things that differentiate the PowerBooks and iBooks.
My only sticking point - and I don't even consider it a "pro feature" - is the spanning one. That's it. You won't see me calling for crazy high-end features that are more home on the PowerBook's price range/customer base.
But in the case of spanning, Apple goes out of their way to turn it off/disable it. That is irksome to me, and I don't care if you agree with it or not.
:p
To not let something be what it is/wants to do is an odd, annoying thing to me.
The other stuff doesn't bother me: keyboards don't magically want to "light up" on their own, etc.
:D
If that one feature were left alone (and not intentionally hobbled) it's still not going to "eat into" the PowerBook/MacBook Pro line, not with all the other differentiating factors.
But in the case of spanning, Apple goes out of their way to turn it off/disable it. That is irksome to me, and I don't care if you agree with it or not.
:p
Oh, so spanning is your pet feature. :)
I understand what you're saying, that Apple has somehow "turned off" this feature when the default should be for it to be turned on. At least they have included VGA out on iBooks so that it is possible to attach an external display. That's something they might leave out of future MacBooks, seeing their propensity to drop features now and then.
Many have argued the same point ever since it was discovered that a hack could turn spanning on in iBooks. The fact is, Apple apparently decided to disable that feature to differentiate iBooks from PowerBooks. Maybe they'll turn it back on. I hope, for your sake, they do. :)
I'd get a 13 inch widescreen iBook, but again I'd like to see apple differentiate when it comes to mobility.
a 10 inch cd rom less laptop is still something I'd like to see
I'd get a 13 inch widescreen iBook, but again I'd like to see apple differentiate when it comes to mobility.
a 10 inch cd rom less laptop is still something I'd like to see
I don't understand this, it would be useless. You couldn't install any software, aside from digital downloads. You wouldn't be able to reinstall OSX yourself if anything went wrong, without an external drive (which defeats the point IMO) etc. I just don't see Apple doing that.
I don't understand this, it would be useless. You couldn't install any software, aside from digital downloads. You wouldn't be able to reinstall OSX yourself if anything went wrong, without an external drive (which defeats the point IMO) etc. I just don't see Apple doing that.
An external drive doesn't defeat the point. Most of the time, a lot of people don't need an optical drive. I certainly don't.
I only use my optical about once a week, at most. I would jump on a sub-notebook in a second.
I don't understand this, it would be useless. You couldn't install any software, aside from digital downloads. You wouldn't be able to reinstall OSX yourself if anything went wrong, without an external drive (which defeats the point IMO) etc. I just don't see Apple doing that.
Most of the time when someone is on the road; for what a lot of people use portables, they don't need a drive. When it comes time to install software, do maintenance, etc., they can do it at home with an external drive. Personally, I'd rather have it built in, but I can see the point of not having one in a very small portable computer.
I know there are pros and cons to both sides of the "having an optical drive built-in or not" debate, but I think the most important factor is that I really can't see Apple ever making a notebook without an optical drive.
julesstoop
2006-01-16, 17:58
The new 8 lbs 10" iPod might not have one ;)
I would just like to know how the new intel iBooks or macBooks will perform compared to the current powerBooks.
I mean, they must become faster than the current iBooks, clearly. but will they out-perform the current 12" powerBooks? [...]
eric.
A new iBook/MacBook will likely outperform current PowerBooks, slightly, but don't expect things like DVI out, lighted keyboards, built-in cameras, dual cores and fast graphics.
oh "just a simple fast macBook" will do, but my pet features would be:
superdrive (I'd like to be able to burn CDs or DVDs with the stuff I just made), 56K modem, ethernet, USB2, firewire 400, audio-in, a graphics card as in the current 12" powerBook will do, spanning would be nice. and I really don't care about the built in camera.
give me a 13" iBook/macBook that has the above, for about $1500 , and I'll buy it the same day it becomes available!!!!
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 18:15
I'm hoping it would be a good bit less than $1500, but it sounds like a nice machine.
I'm actually waiting to see what comes of the iBook...curious to see what all it morphs into, and if it's a significant step up from my PowerBook (and yes, if it has a few of my "pet features"). ;)
Based on what I learn in April-May, I will then make a decision.
Right now, at $1,999, the MacBook Pro is definitely out. I'm not spending over $1,500 ever again... :o
So that's going to put it down to one of three things: new iBook (whatever it's called), OR totally go back to desktops for a while and enjoy some true muscle in the form of a 17" iMac Core Duo or see what happens to the Mac mini and go that route (and a 20" Cinema Display).
But I'm holding out hope that the new Intel iBook is as nice a step up as the MacBook Pro was to the PowerBook. I realize that may be a lot of wishful thinking, and it's looking more like the 17" iMac more and more for later in 2006.
:D
However, if those post-keynote rumblings were correct (and we've got more MacBook Pro model sizes on the horizon), I could be persuaded by a dual core 12"-13" widescreen too (assuming it'll have Core Duo, iSight, spanning, etc. and possibly be in that $1500 neighborhood?).
superdrive (I'd like to be able to burn CDs or DVDs with the stuff I just made), 56K modem, ethernet, USB2, firewire 400, audio-in, a graphics card as in the current 12" powerBook will do, spanning would be nice. and I really don't care about the built in camera.
give me a 13" iBook/macBook that has the above, for about $1500 , and I'll buy it the same day it becomes available!!!!
Here's what I'd guess you will have from your wish list:
Superdrive: optional
Modem: external only, optional
Ethernet: sure
USB2: sure
Firewire: sure
Audio in: nope
Graphics card like current 12" PB: maybe
Spanning: no
The good news is even with the BTO options, I'll bet it's less than $1500. :)
While I don't really care about spanning, it seems like Apple won't have to work as hard to differentiate the iBook/MacBook from the MacBook Pro in the future. Because they've been stuck with a G4 for PowerBooks, they've been forced to artificially limit the iBook in whatever ways they could up until now. I presume that as we move into Intel processers, they'll be using a single-core version for the lower-end line. The speed difference alone should be enough to warrant the "Pro" moniker.
pscates2.0
2006-01-16, 19:31
True. It'll be nice just to have a truly "different" line-up (as opposed to a ceiling-hitting pro model and a "hobbled beyond belief so it doesn't make the pud pro model look so weak".
:p
Spanbauer
2006-01-17, 00:36
What Reid and pscates2.0 said. Apple now has a range of processors to work with in their notebooks, so they have real ways of separating the iBook replacement from the MacBook. The fact that the iMac now uses mini-DVI and has monitor spanning bodes will for the iBook replacement getting those features too. It will remain to be seen what else other than processor and screen size Apple can use to make a $1,000 difference between a $999 notebook and their MacBook Pro. I imagine the MacBook Pros will come down in price by $200 or so the same time the iBook replacement arrives. But it'd be really swell for Apple to have a $799 notebook as well. Factoring in Apple's fat margins, is there an Intel chip arriving around April/May that would allow for such an inexpensive system? A 1.5Ghz Core Solo, craptacular graphics, Combo Drive, and 40GB Hard Drive, perhaps? Or does that sound more like a $999 Apple notebook?
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