View Full Version : iTMS coming to Australia? About bloody time.
Australian IT (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,10498702%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html) reports an interview in which Unwired (a cool wireless ISP in Sydney) hints that the iTMS may make it to Australia within a month!
Vendor lock-in, here I come!
Anyone care to speculate on whether this is ever actually going to happen?
-S
I can't bring myself, morally, to buy copy protected music. Let alone DRM'ed music, Apple or not. So "no deal" for me, regardless.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 11:52
I don't see why you would resist the iTunes DRM music...if...you have the total Apple solution set up. It is so nice to just buy a song or an album and have it organized immediately in iTunes and synced to the iPod. In my opinion, it can't be beat. Most people that download online see it that way too. ;)
kidding.
Getting locked into any product is bad, Apple or not. It might be great now, but that doesn't stop Apple from screwing you over later intentionally if they want to or unintentionally if someone makes a better iPod or iTunes.
Sure, the benefits outweigh that cost for some people. But not for me.
Barto
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 12:17
kidding.
Getting locked into any product is bad, Apple or not. It might be great now, but that doesn't stop Apple from screwing you over later intentionally if they want to or unintentionally if someone makes a better iPod or iTunes.
Sure, the benefits outweigh that cost for some people. But not for me.
BartoA better iPod or iTunes?
Messiahtosh, you are one of the few people online where I have to make an effort to be nice.
Barto
Getting locked into any product is bad, Apple or not. It might be great now, but that doesn't stop Apple from screwing you over later intentionally if they want to or unintentionally if someone makes a better iPod or iTunes.
Still, you can only be so locked in given that the DRM has been cracked, and thankfully we don't have a DMCA yet.
Pity about the lack of fair use rights, of course.
DMCA comes into force January 1. So 'thankfully' applies for the next 4 months. :no:
And it isn't like anything is legal here (no fair use, yay!), the FTA just makes things "more" illegal.
Barto
I don't see why you would resist the iTunes DRM music...if...you have the total Apple solution set up. It is so nice to just buy a song or an album and have it organized immediately in iTunes and synced to the iPod. In my opinion, it can't be beat. Most people that download online see it that way too. ;)
Jeez, you're like a lamb to the slaughter, aren't you?
The only reason that iTMS lock-in is not completely objectionable to me is the ease of DRM-stripping and transcoded (by, for example, burning a CD as the EULA permits).
DMCA comes into force January 1. So 'thankfully' applies for the next 4 months. :no:
No, there would need to be amendments to the Copyright Act — international treaty obligations cannot have force in Australia (except in very limited circumstances) unless they're legislated into force.
Given that, this is what the US Free Trade Agreement Implementation Bill 2004 (http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/bills/0/2004/0/2004062412.htm) says:
Part*7--Electronic rights management information
Copyright Act 1968
134 Subsection 10(1) (definition of electronic rights management information)
Repeal the definition, substitute:
electronic rights management information, in relation to a work or other subject-matter, means information that:
* * * *(a) is electronic; and
* * * *(b) either:
* * * *(i) is or was attached to, or is or was embodied in, a copy of the work or subject-matter; or
* * * *(ii) appears or appeared in connection with a communication, or the making available, of the work or subject-matter; and
* * * *(c) either:
* * * *(i) identifies the work or subject-matter, and its author or copyright owner (including such information represented as numbers or codes); or
* * * *(ii) identifies or indicates some or all of the terms and conditions on which the work or subject-matter may be used, or indicates that the use of the work or subject-matter is subject to terms or conditions (including such information represented as numbers or codes).
135 Paragraph 116B(1)(a)
Repeal the paragraph, substitute:
* * * *(a) either:
* * * *(i) a person removes, from a copy of a work or other subject-matter in which copyright subsists, any electronic rights management information that relates to the work or other subject-matter; or
* * * *(ii) a person alters any electronic rights management information that relates to a work or other subject-matter in which copyright subsists; and
I find this interesting on a couple of grounds. Firstly, the real killer in the DMCA actually refers to circumvention technologies (i.e. technologies aimed at allowing the circumvention of DRM tech). This is apparently not fully incorporated in the Australian Bill (see below). Secondly, the reference to information which "identifies the work or subject-matter, and its author or copyright owner" strongly implies that so long as you can figure out a way to access the file without altering or removing this information you should be fine.
There is a reference to a heading on circumvention tech in the criminal offences, but bizarrely, there is no text for the section (the reference solely seeks to insert a heading — but there's no explanation anywhere of what the text of the new subsection might actually be). I may have to wait until the compilation is brought up to date. At any rate, so long as your circumvention doesn't recklessly open up the possibility of copyright infringement, you should be OK. Difficult, but possible, I suspect.
Frankly, it was always a breach of copyright under Australian law to transcode a file. So long as any cracks are constructed so as to make it a plausible argument in court that this is not intended or recklessly ignored as a possibility, you should be fine. The Fairplay reading software for Linux should therefore be fine, unless the EULA specifically requires you to use iTunes or Windows/Mac to read the file (which I doubt — has anyone actually read it?).
Where was I?
Oh yes. The Australian copyright régime has always been fascist, in fact far worse than the US one. I'll adopt a wait and see approach to the circumvention tech stuff, but I suspect it might not be the killer people think it is.
Gah. I need more sleep.
EDIT: found it!
s132(5A)
A person must not provide, or by way of trade promote, advertise or market, a circumvention service if the person knows, or is reckless as to whether, the service will be used to circumvent, or facilitate the circumvention of, a technological protection measure.
This is already in force — that's why it wasn't in the enabling legislation. It was brought into force by the Copyright Amendment (Digital Agenda) Act 2000 (http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/comact/10/6223/0/CM000070.htm)
Looks like we're stuffed, but were so at some time prior to the FTA.
The definition of "circumvention device" is interesting:
4 Subsection 10(1)
Insert:
circumvention device means a device (including a computer program) having only a limited commercially significant purpose or use, or no such purpose or use, other than the circumvention, or facilitating the circumvention, of an effective technological protection measure.
The "effective" was deleted in 2003. Presumably therefore if you included circumvention as a tiny part of a bigger program (i.e. a full-featured media player) you would be fine. Moreover, I find it difficult to believe that in the absence of something in the EULA to the contrary, the Australian courts would punish software which simply plays the music — that's not exactly allowing copyright breach in the classical sense.
Australia's circumvention provisions have actually been tested, in the Sony v Stevens (The Playstation Case) [2003] FCAFC 157 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/cases/cth/FCAFC/2003/157.html?query=copyright+and+act+and+circumvention +and+device) case. The case didn't turn on it (the main issue was whether the mod chip was a circumvention device, which it clearly was), and the facts were very different, but at 77ff, it seems that loading a program or file into memory can only constitute copying under the Copyright Act if the data can further be reproduced from what is in memory at any given moment. This is important because a circumvention device can only circumvent copyright protection if copyright is actually breached by its (potential) operation.
So I suppose if you designed an algorithm which deliberately didn't load the whole file into memory in one go (inefficient as that might be), you might be in the clear.
Hmm.
Edit: wow, long post!
From what I can tell, I break copyright law all the time - listening to songs I've ripped from CDs I own, printing web pages from sites that do not grant implicit or explicit permission, etc.
The inappropriateness of Australian copyright law in the age of personal computers has made me kind of... numb to the whole thing. So I don't really care how many new copyright laws I'm breaking because of the FTA. It all just sucks.
Barto
From what I can tell, I break copyright law all the time - listening to songs I've ripped from CDs I own, printing web pages from sites that do not grant implicit or explicit permission, etc.
The inappropriateness of Australian copyright law in the age of personal computers has made me kind of... numb to the whole thing. So I don't really care how many new copyright laws I'm breaking because of the FTA. It all just sucks.
Barto
What can I say? The law's an ass.
:lol:
-S
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 14:12
Messiahtosh, you are one of the few people online where I have to make an effort to be nice.
BartoI'm sorry that we disagree, I just think the iTMS DRM system is more than fair. But that's just me.
I'm sorry that we disagree, I just think the iTMS DRM system is more than fair. But that's just me.
The issue isn't fairness, it's cross platform compatibility and the ability to listen to your music in 80 years time, when Microsoft and Apple are just fading memories, and music decoding chips are implanted in our brains.
I'm sorry that we disagree, I just think the iTMS DRM system is more than fair. But that's just me.
I'd say it's about as good as you can expect from any DRM system, but that's not really saying much. While it doesn't usually get in the way of my own use, I am still suspicious because Apple can pretty much change it however they want. They already changed the terms of using tracks purchased from the iTMS earlier this year - again, while the changes didn't exactly get in my way, they could theoretically change them again to something that DOES hinder me, and the changes would apply to all the songs I have purchased from the iTMS.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 14:44
The one thing that is nice, is if you really have to crack the AAC protection, you can. Just burn the songs to a CD and re-import them in MP3, and they are unlocked-I'm sure you already knew that, but it's nice to be able to do, if for some reason you have to.
DMBand0026
2004-08-19, 15:30
[aduiophile]
problem with that is 128kbps AAC isn't exactly flawless, for me it's just not good enough. If you want me to rip that again and go through another generation, no way. The quality loss would be astronomical. Don't believe me? Take a CD that you've burned @ 128kpbs AAC and re rip into (for the sake of example, we'll go with a high bit rate here) 192kbps Mp3. Tell me you can still listen to that. That's why that's not even an option for me.
[/audiophile]
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 15:49
I guess if you're not an audiophile and can stand quality loss, it's fine. :\
Ugh, that drives me nuts. I hate to hear staticy and choppy music.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 16:02
Ugh, that drives me nuts. I hate to hear staticy and choppy music.Well, static and choppy is one thing, slight muffling is another.
I guess if you're not an audiophile and can stand quality loss, it's fine. :\
Then again, you can pirate the music for free and only look for 192 or 256 kbps files. Sure, there aren't a whole lot of MP3s on the various P2P networks at those high bitrates, but they are there. And it's free - you don't pay money to get inferior quality.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-19, 16:17
But that would be illegal, and at that point, I'd rather just buy the CD. Using P2P at this point is just stupid and even risky...especially at a University.
If you took an AAC from the iTMS, burned it to CD, and then reripped it with Apple Lossless or AIFF, wouldn't it be the same quality as the AAC?
Just wondering, I really don't know much about all the different codecs.
Yes, I believe so. And it would still remove the copy protection. However, since the iTMS has very high quality 128kbps AAC files (higher quality than you'd get from an iTunes-made 128kbps AAC file), you could probably also rip at 320kbps AAC and get equal quality. It's the conversion to MP3 that degrades the quality, but the only people who can't listen to AAC files are those who don't have iTunes.
LoL, do I sense some.. sarcasm there Luca?
iTMS coming to Australia?! Great - I have been waiting for this for ages.
I have never downloaded a tune or used a piece of software without paying for it. I have no qualms sending a credit card payment for shareware - they did the hard work, I like and use the product, they deserve to be paid by me for it! Simple.
As for music, (and being a musician, I have a feeling that I am strangely on the outer with this opinion) I do not want pirated tunes. My bandmates download tunes off the 'net and tell me to get some, but it just does not interest me. The only stuff I have on iTunes are rips of CDs that I own.
If I want to add to this collection, then I see no major problem (for me only) buying from the iTMS. Granted, there is no guarantee that Apple will not pull the rug from under our feet at a later stage - but this is a condition I am aware of before I make the purchase ... and I am prepared to live with that consequence. Besides, I am not really interested in sharing my tunes with a Windows computer or another user frankly - but maybe that is just me, I guess. :\
Also, I don't look to iTunes for good quality audio - that is why I have my CDs still. I realise that compression algorithms affect the sound quality and I do not expect audiophile quality from compressed music. For recordings where I want to preserve the audio quality (some Sheffield Lab discs, for example) I rip as AIFF. To me, iTunes is primarily the library where I can store and search for my songs. It is also a neat party player.
Having said this, the irony of my happiness that the iTMS will finally make it to Australia is that I will be moving to China for three years as of January next year (I'll post a new thread about this) where piracy is a national past-time.
The school where I used to work full-time has a program where they send the Year 9 students over to their China campus for a five week period. Two staff members are chosen to accompany a group across - and it is a fantastic experience. Most staff come back with bags full of CDs and DVDs for about $1 each! When I went across, though, I think I set the record for not coming back with a single CD or DVD. I just did not want to condone dishonest behaviour. The kids thought I was nuts - but I know I sleep better if I do what I think is right. Go figure. :rolleyes:
They also got a taste of it in Music - when I set Pop Song Analysis work, I would not correct their assignments if they handed me mp3 files - I made it clear that I expect to see and hear original source material. They knew it and probably thought I was crazy, but they complied.
It got me thinking, though, b/c as a kid I use to think nothing of making a tape for a friend of music to listen to - but now I realise that was indeed piracy. It doesn't make me proud to have that contradiction in my past - but I was younger then and perhaps not as accutely aware of what I was doing - or even prepared enough to take a personal stance on the issue. Today, though, I know where I stand.
What am I going to do in China? Well, the Head of the Campus, where my wife and I will be staying gave us 2 pieces of advice (well, mainly directed toward me):
1) Get yourselves an iPod each and rip all your music to iTunes before you come over!* (for 2 reasons: you won't have to bring all your CDs over as luggage and you won't then get pinged an import duty on them!)
2) There are not really any stores with "legal" CD releases - just order from Amazon.
* Can you imagine my feelings about this? "Honey, we have to get ourselves some iPods!" :D
(:grumble: ... even though the colour screen is not available yet and that is what I promised myself I would wait for! Oh well, I'll rationalise the purchase of just the iPod mini for now and wait for the colour screen model at a later stage!) ;)
The issue isn't fairness, it's cross platform compatibility and the ability to listen to your music in 80 years time, when Microsoft and Apple are just fading memories, and music decoding chips are implanted in our brains.
Don't expect any media format to last forever - you will be forced to buy your music over and over again, just as it has been the last 100 years.
Don't expect any media format to last forever - you will be forced to buy your music over and over again, just as it has been the last 100 years.
We may have to agree to disagree on this. Formats will doubtlessly move on from current technology, but at this stage there is no good reason why support for the major legacy formats shouldn't continue.
Besides, you can still play vinyl bought in the 20s today (if you've been careful with it) and vinyl still has arguably better sound quality than the popular digital formats… I'd like to be able to play my digital music until I die in the same way as my grandparents generation could if they didn't get sucked in by the latest and greatest.
Just to add my 2c, the unwired itms speculation reeks of hype - as they hinted at it 2 days before they opened their doors for business as a wireless isp. It was a great way to get free advertising in all the tech sections of australian newspapers & websites.
Until then, i'll beleive the apple rep i spoke to "you wont see an Australian itms any time soon. If it will happen, it'll be in 2005 or not at all."
aswitcher
2004-08-30, 00:54
Until then, i'll beleive the apple rep i spoke to "you wont see an Australian itms any time soon. If it will happen, it'll be in 2005 or not at all."
Ashame really. I still think they should let us use the American store along with the Canadians
Apple needs to co-operate with record lables. Allowing international customers to use the American store would be confrontation with the local authorised distributors which Apple will want on their side and would possibly result in massive legal challanges (and possibly costs).
Copyright is an ugly, ugly thing. Did you expect anything less?
Well, AppleTalk Australia is hinting at an iTMS in Australia come January 12.
http://www.appletalk.com.au/newsimg/mwsyd05.jpg
Any thoughts?
I think Disko et al over at AppleTalk are guessing, like the rest of us, that the MacWorld Event will be the introduction of iTMS Australia. Of course, I might be wrong.
PS I made the Australia button in the above graphic. :D
Barto - nice work on the button! :)
Oh - I took that image at face value and thought that it was an official invite of some sort.
Oh well. :\
It's a photoshop of the original invite, located here (http://support.apple.com.au/seminars/mwsf2005/).
El Guardo
2005-01-03, 05:11
I'm hoping it will be an Australian iTMS but don't see how Apple can overcome well established copyright and intellectual property laws.
No iTunes Music Store has been introduced without licensing agreements with the relevant rights-holders (copyright owners, authorised distributors, labels etc). Australia is the same, Apple won't avoid copyright laws, they have to abide by them and sign contracts with the relevant rights-holders that allows them to offer music for sale online.
Well, the Age (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/01/10/1105206055245.html) is now reporting that iTMS Australia might open tomorrow. It seems they don't know anything much that anyone else doesn't, though.
We'll see.
crazychester
2005-01-11, 20:21
PS I made the Australia button in the above graphic. :D
I'm very impressed by your button Barto.
crazychester
2005-01-11, 23:28
Heads up people. Props to MacMatt at AI for the spot.
http://www.appletalk.com.au/index.php
Actually, one of our users caught that one. :)
Hopefully the store arrives soon.
Daveydweeb
2005-01-12, 00:18
Heads up people. Props to MacMatt at AI for the spot.
http://www.appletalk.com.au/index.php
The Macworld event in Sydney ends at 6.30. What are the chances of seeing the iTMS Australia open then? =)
My fingers are still crossed. I just wish I could afford an iPod Shuffle to go with a lovely new music store.
El Guardo
2005-01-13, 01:37
Unfortunately the Australian iTunes Music Store did not eventuate on the 12th. It would appear legal issues (copyright) are complicating the matter.
El Guardo
2005-04-22, 08:37
But it will be live by the end of April (2005). Follow the confirmed reports here:
AppleTalk Australia (http://www.appletalk.com.au/)
Russel Crowe (why he knows I dont know) confirmed iTMS today.
Apple Aust. wont comment....
go here for the news (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Technology/iTunes-music-store-set-to-open/2005/04/26/1114462030140.html) :) I hope.
of course Russel would know because of his band... why I forgot that I dont know... :\
T'hain Esh Kelch
2005-04-26, 10:18
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia & New Zealand are comming today.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia & New Zealand are comming today.
Thursday.
In Australia Russel said that tracks would be 1.80 I hope he got that part wrong :confused:
Well, BigPond Music tracks are $1.89 so it wouldn't surprise me.
found a side door open into the shop... been in and done a bit of shopping...
tracks are 1.69
at this time most tracks are unpurchaseable but there are some little gems to be found with a lot of searching......
but iTMS (Aust) IS unofficially open for business
What will be offered at the Australian iTMS? The complete Wiggles collection? :lol:
* ducks * (just teasing - just teasing)
And besides, my little son loves the Wiggles…and so do I.
couldnt find any wiggles...:d
but at this late time on Wed... I begin to suspect that iTMS wont be released tomorrow... there has been no announcement from apple....
(doesnt mean you cant use what is already there though).
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