View Full Version : iPhone and the matter of being a GSM Cingular device
HoshNasi
2007-01-09, 13:45
NOTE: This thread has been split from the iPhone Discussion (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=21764) thread. - Brad
Two things are of interest to me.
1. How well will this device play with other carriers, (i.e. the ability to eek out all we can from the internet connection offered by T-Mobile, Verizon, Sprint, etc.) without some kind of locked arangement (Cingular branded).
1.2. If the iPhone works well with other carries, make it so the setup process is painless. Not something were you have to dive into the bowels of the system to deffine mms numbers and internet gateways.
2. How well does this work with Bluetooth. I assume it would be a painless ordeal. Offering voicee features like "Dial voicemail", "Dial Home", or even better the ability to speak the numbers and have it dial.
infinitespecter
2007-01-09, 13:50
I am more then a little big annoyed that this uber-phone is attached to Cingular. I loathe Cingular with every bone in my body and just left them a few months ago for Sprint. I have no intention of going back, so I guess no iPhone for me. Oh well.
HoshNasi
2007-01-09, 13:53
I am more then a little big annoyed that this uber-phone is attached to Cingular. I loathe Cingular with every bone in my body and just left them a few months ago for Sprint. I have no intention of going back, so I guess no iPhone for me. Oh well.
Hold out faith for the phone to be unlocked when bought through the Apple store. Also, the price point said nothing about it based on cingulars contract arangements. It would make sense that the price stated would be *without* contract.
Hold out faith for the phone to be unlocked when bought through the Apple store. Also, the price point said nothing about it based on cingulars contract arangements. It would make sense that the price stated would be *without* contract.
Actually, they said 2-year contract.
HoshNasi
2007-01-09, 13:56
Actually, they said 2-year contract.
Thanks for the correction... Crap I missed that one :(
I also hate cingular.
Somewhere in there Steve specifically mentioned that this is an "exclusive, multi-year" partnership deal with Cingular (or maybe it was the Cingular guy).
jb_007clone
2007-01-09, 14:00
What about Canada? Does anyone know who is gonna carry the iPhone there? My guess would be Rogers but I haven't heard a single word about potential carriers up north.
datapusher
2007-01-09, 14:00
Somewhere in there Steve specifically mentioned that this is an "exclusive, multi-year" partnership deal with Cingular (or maybe it was the Cingular guy).
This phone will get unlocked, it just depends on how hard it is to unlock sucha device.
Realize that this is a GSM device. This means it will only operate on T-Mobile and Cingular in the US, along with smaller regional companies that use GSM(SunCom, Edge Wireless etc.) And unless the device is sold or can be unlocked in it will only work on Cingular! Sprint and Verizon are out of the question, as they use CDMA which only South Korea uses outside of North America.
Apple is thinking globally here, but I suspect this may be a flop.
The Cingular thing does bother me as well, I was with them for about 6 months before breaking my contract, cursing their imcompetence and swearing to never go back.
I've been happy with T-mobile ever since.
HoshNasi
2007-01-09, 14:14
This phone will get unlocked, it just depends on how hard it is to unlock sucha device.
Agreed, I'll be watching howadforums for the details when this phone is released.
Personally I think it will do well. If only because I really REALLY want it to be the phone that gives me all I have been looking for.
Yeah, I'm an ex-Cingular user as well.
Unless they've significantly improved their coverage in my area, I'll have to stick with Verizon & my Moto v710, my 80 GB iPod, and my MacBook Core Duo.
infinitespecter
2007-01-09, 14:17
Actually, they said 2-year contract.
Which makes me wonder how much the hardware is actually costing. I suspect around a grand, given how much Cingular usually subsidizes phones with a two year contract. Also, one of the reasons that they may have chosen not to go with other carriers is that, from what I can tell, Cingular is the only company that will allow a phone on their network without a highly customized UI. Verizon requires their own proprietary OS, Sprint requires substantial changes to native phone interfaces, and I am not sure about T-Mobile. Cingular may have been the only one that would allow Apple's interface unchanged.
And finally, watching CNBC, it seems that virtually every telecom stock not associated with the iPhone (RIM, Palm, Sprint, Verizon, etc) are WAY down. The guys over at the Palm sites are all predicting this as the death of Palm, since this is what Palm had promised for years and never delivered on.
EDIT: Almost forgot that Jobs will be on CNBC Closing Bell sometime within the hour.
jb_007clone
2007-01-09, 14:30
anybody heard anything about possible carriers in canada?!?!?
anybody heard anything about possible carriers in canada?!?!?
:lol:
anybody heard anything about possible carriers in canada?!?!?
:lol:
Fuck you, spike! :mad:
(heh heh)
I'd be all over this like Kickaha on a topless redheaded lesbian vampire if I could get it. :(
thegelding
2007-01-09, 14:57
eeeee, just went through apple's site on this device...damn it looks like a nice little piece of machinery...i can see this totally taking over my laptop needs...keeping my iMac for larger duties, using this for all mobile stuff...very nice...
eeek, now do i have to get my whole family to switch from verizon?? i hope not, most of us just updated our phones and contracts...plus i've liked verizon (well except that they rarely get the newest phones and such)
g
TeamWasabi
2007-01-09, 15:52
The article on cnn.com says "It's an exclusive multiyear agreement, which means no other carrier will be able to sell the iPhone through 2009"
http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/09/technology/apple_jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes
ughh.. I hope I can get an unlocked one. I love Verizon but most of their phones suck...
solinari6
2007-01-09, 15:53
Hmm, I've got an internet enabled cingular phone now.
They charge I think $20 a month for unlimited internet usage. But for Blackberries, it's $30 a month.
I wonder which of the internet plans the iPhone will be like?
BarracksSi
2007-01-09, 15:58
What's 3G? What's CDMA? Oh yeah, those are cell networks that didn't exist while I was visiting family in Germany over Christmas. Thank goodness I had my T-Mobile Blackberry.
Okay... anybody want to draw a mockup of Apple's Bluetooth headset? Or have I just not seen pics of it yet?
BarracksSi
2007-01-09, 16:17
The real question is will people switch to Cingular for it?
I don't necessarily want to, as I've only switched from Sprint to T-Mobile four months ago. But, when it works overseas, I just might take the hit and cancel my T-Mobile contract early.
On the other hand, I could also wait, and by that time there would be an iPhone in 20 and 10 GB sizes, and an iPhone nano. Maybe.
Well, as a Verizon customer, I won't own one anytime soon, but I'm taking the positive route on this. If you go to the Time article posted in this thread several pages back, it mentions that the whole motivation for this began with Steve telling his people to re-think the tablet PC. If they can package this type of UI into more of a straight iPOD & PDA or next gen laptop, this will be sweet. I found it odd for Steve to throw out the stylus concept so quickly though. Yes, the finger navigation, pinching and pulling is sweet, but when I need to jot down notes on the go, I still reach for a pen.
jb_007clone
2007-01-09, 16:30
Still no word on canadian carriers?!?
I think it's either gonna be Rogers or Bell.
I mean there's no way that this thing comes out in the UK before Canada right? ...Right?
The choice of EDGE is going to prove *very* problematic for European adoption. There were 3 stages of GSM data evolution : GPRS, EDGE then 3GSM (UMTS)
The problem is that most European networks made the leap from GPRS to 3G skipping EDGE entirely.
So, this device is going to be useless to many Europeans as it'll have no EDGE connectivity.
I don't think any of the UK networks rolled out EDGE, they all skipped ahead to 3G and in Ireland (where I'm based) the only network that was considering EDGE was the smallest one, Meteor and that was only because initially it didn't get a 3G licence. However, as soon as it got one all talk of EDGE went off the agenda.
Perhaps the Euro version will be different?
So why did Apple choose to go with Cingular rather than an unlocked phone?
Is it really because of Cingular's track record or quality? Certainly there's probably a monetary kickback from Cingular. But would an "open" phone not accelerate sales and drive up revenues?
So why did Apple choose to go with Cingular rather than an unlocked phone?
Is it really because of Cingular's track record or quality? Certainly there's probably a monetary kickback from Cingular. But would an "open" phone not accelerate sales and drive up revenues?
It's because Cingular allowed Apple free reign over the phone and even restructured their voice mail system for this device, all information from the Keynote. My guess is no other carrier were willing to work. Either that or Apple has worked with Cingular in the past and they were probably offered the opportunity first -- and who wouldn't jump at that?
I'm not going to pay to drop my contract with Verizon just so that I can get the iPhone
blehpunk
2007-01-09, 19:55
cingular.com already has the iphone on the homepage.
* I wonder (there's got to be) a dedicated iPhone plan coming from Cingular much like the Sidekick plan from T-Mobile. The iPhone's price is either going to be worth it or not worth it to each consumer, but if the voice and data plan are too high, it will kill adoption. I'm thinking that a $59 700+ minute with unlimited everything else is the sweet spot because with taxes and surcharges a $60 bill ends up being about $70+.
my cingular bill is $60 for 900 minutes, typical free nights/weekends, $10/1000 sms, and $35 for unlimited email/web use, rounding out about $125 a month after taxes. Not unusual for people to float a simple hundred bucks for service, and if the apple phone did a couple bucks above that, people will still pay it. no more than $150, but $140 w/taxes sounds within reach. ask verizon users, they pay more i think.
EDIT: using a blackberry 8700c
BarracksSi
2007-01-09, 22:18
Jobs alluded to having a market of 800,000,000 new phone purchasers annually. That's a falsehood. Cingular has 38 million total customers, so its safe to assume 19 million renew their contracts annually, and 190,000 is the 1% mark they wanted to hit.
Something doesn't seem quite right about that. Perhaps my math or knowledge of Cingular is off.
You're probably right about Cingular, but that 800 million figure includes worldwide sales. Wait until late 2008 or so to see how well the iPhone settles into the worldwide phone market.
Yeah, and Jobs' 1% figure was for '08. These projections/estimates/hopes are a long ways off regardless. I think Cingular's customer base is in the 40+ million, but I may be wrong.
jb_007clone
2007-01-09, 22:38
for canadians>>
well according to the iPhone's wikipedia article it will be a simultaneous release in June in the US *and* Canada
however this should be taken with a grain of salt as there is no citation for the statement
InactionMan
2007-01-09, 23:13
for canadians>>
well according to the iPhone's wikipedia article it will be a simultaneous release in June in the US *and* Canada
however this should be taken with a grain of salt as there is no citation for the statement
This is very likely the truth. It'll be carried by Rogers as they are the only provider in Canada using GSM (or so I think).
The more I think about this the more I want it. I've never owned a cell phone and I know I need one. My 3G iPod is down to one hour of battery life. And I've been toying with the idea of getting a used iBook for portable loving. Given that I've been considering getting all of these things I can only think that the iPhone is actually pretty cheap. As far as music and video and the iPhones relatively small capacity, I already have way too much content to cram onto an iPod so picking and choosing is already a necessity.
It's a good thing that this isn't out until June, that should give consumers enough time to realize that this isn't a cell phone, it's an entirely new class of device. One that is easily worth the price tag.
jb_007clone
2007-01-09, 23:39
This is very likely the truth. It'll be carried by Rogers as they are the only provider in Canada using GSM (or so I think).
You are correct. Rogers, it is. Some questions arise.
i) Is Rogers gonna be able to offer 'visual voicemail'?
ii) Is there gonna be a special data plan (hopefully unlimited) for the iPhone?
Because as it stands Rogers offers terribly expensive data plans.
Will the phone work with other networks or will it be "locked" to Cingular? I mean I wouldn't mind shelling out 500$ for the phone and 2 year contract but I would rather just swap out the sims and use my current provider.
"Multi-Year" Deal with Cingular.
I'm sure someone will crack the phone and unlock it fo use on other services. But from what I have been hearing Cingular has re-engineered their current network/processes around the new iPhone.
For instance, Im sure the VoiceMail feature would not work on a t-mobile.
torifile
2007-01-10, 00:44
Will the phone work with other networks or will it be "locked" to Cingular? I mean I wouldn't mind shelling out 500$ for the phone and 2 year contract but I would rather just swap out the sims and use my current provider.
It's certainly going to be locked to Cingular. Without a doubt. I don't know if there are going to be unlocked versions eventually, but I'd imagine there would be, else you wouldn't be able to buy one in an Apple Store and that seems absurd.
It's certainly going to be locked to Cingular. Without a doubt. I don't know if there are going to be unlocked versions eventually, but I'd imagine there would be, else you wouldn't be able to buy one in an Apple Store and that seems absurd.
Isn't there a US law that says they *have* to unlock the phone for us? Or am I misunderstanding that new law?
apple007
2007-01-10, 01:27
I'm really curious about unlocked versions as well, although a switch to Cingular from Verizon wouldn't necessarily be a deal-breaker for me.
From what I can tell, the only possible feature that is Cingular-specific would be the 'visual voicemail' thing.
Curious what people think about unlocked versions making it into the wild and being used with Verizon, etc.
infinitespecter
2007-01-10, 04:50
It's certainly going to be locked to Cingular. Without a doubt. I don't know if there are going to be unlocked versions eventually, but I'd imagine there would be, else you wouldn't be able to buy one in an Apple Store and that seems absurd.
Apple would be a Cingular reseller, just like the ones that attack you at the mall. All they need is a computer with internet access to run your credit and assign the SIM card to your account.
Isn't there a US law that says they *have* to unlock the phone for us? Or am I misunderstanding that new law?
Sort of, but not really. It mainly means that you have the right to get out of your contract without violating the DMCA (long story). There's a better explanation of it in the comments here. http://consumerist.com/consumer/cellphones/unlock-your-cellphone-now-217745.php
Curious what people think about unlocked versions making it into the wild and being used with Verizon, etc.
Verizon and Sprint use CDMA, which is not compatible with phones used on Cingular and T-Mobile networks (they use GSM). Thus, the only major carrier in the US that could potentially use the iPhone is T-Mobile (not counting a few regional carriers). Apple would have to develop a CDMA specific model, and that isn't likely considering that only the US and South Korea use that standard.
thegelding
2007-01-10, 09:43
well the only good thing for me about it being cingular only is i will have to wait a bit, so i'm not rushing out to get a rev A product...
by the time i get one it will be ver c or d and all the kinks will be long gone...
cingular has only been in our area for less than a year, they don't have nearly the service i'm use to
hoping they open it up in 2008
g
On a slightly happier note, they also got Schiller to admit that they are developing a CDMA version too.
They did?
I could be wrong, but I recall Phil telling me that when it hits Japan, they'll have to have to build a CDMA version.
infinitespecter
2007-01-10, 16:26
They did?
I have Sprint right now, so I am just really, really hoping they are not wrong.:lol:
On a slightly happier note, they also got Schiller to admit that they are developing a CDMA version too.
It'll be WCDMA (given that's the prevailing new technology in Japan and everywhere). WCDMA is also known as 3GSM - it's the successor to GSM.
It's not related to Qualcomm CDMA except both use code division multiple access signaling and both are mobile phone standards.
It'll be WCDMA (given that's the prevailing new technology in Japan and everywhere). WCDMA is also known as 3GSM - it's the successor to GSM.
Well, UMTS/3GSM is one implementation of W-CDMA, and increasingly common in Europe. However, the prevalent one in Japan is actually FOMA.
infinitespecter
2007-01-10, 20:28
It'll be WCDMA (given that's the prevailing new technology in Japan and everywhere). WCDMA is also known as 3GSM - it's the successor to GSM.
It's not related to Qualcomm CDMA except both use code division multiple access signaling and both are mobile phone standards.
I knew that, but until I hear for sure, I am going to continue living in my own little world where a Sprint edition is just around the corner.;)
So does this mean that I am paying for data whether I am using GSM or Wifi since either way it goes through Cingular's server? or am I misunderstanding?
The only time you pay Cingular for data is when you go through their proxy server to access the net. Presumably a different proxy server handles your wifi calls.
torifile
2007-01-10, 23:07
If you're using wifi, you won't pay for data. If you're not an existing wifi network, you'd have to use/pay for data.
If you're using wifi, you won't pay for data. If you're not an existing wifi network, you'd have to use/pay for data.
My friend on Verizon doesn't pay for data even when he's using their CDMA network, because he changed the proxy server ... they can't measure his bandwidth usage. :lol:
My friend on Verizon doesn't pay for data even when he's using their CDMA network, because he changed the proxy server ... they can't measure his bandwidth usage. :lol:
I wouldn't be surprised if that constitutes a contract breach that'd allow them to sue him, and then he'd wind up paying for more to settle than he would have for data. ;)
I wouldn't be surprised if that constitutes a contract breach that'd allow them to sue him, and then he'd wind up paying for more to settle than he would have for data. ;)
This is a known by Verizon and they don't seem to care. There are many who use VZW's data for free. In most cases though, the best speeds you can get are about 100k, my average was only about 25k.
infinitespecter
2007-01-11, 16:57
Some new info on how locked the phone will be on Cingular's network. God I hate them, arrogant pricks.
"While "there are bad guys out there that unlock phones," Lurie said, Apple and Cingular are taking unspecified steps to make the phone more difficult to unlock and use on other GSM carriers in the US."
...That bending included allowing the phone to be locked to Cingular, just one of several restrictions on the new iPhone. Press reports today said the phone will not accept third-party applications, though Apple may allow third parties to program mini-application "widgets."
"If you want an iPhone, you are going to get the luxury of being on the Cingular network," Lurie said.
While the Cingular logo will not appear on the body of the iPhone, the word "Cingular" will appear on the screen at all times."
http://consumerist.com/consumer/iphone/iphone-locked-to-cingular-but-bad-guys-might-unlock-it-228168.php
I am in Japan now and the few Japanese people I have spoken to are kind of `meh` about it.
Steve Jobs was on NHK when I awoke this morning - apparently Softbank have the contract over here.
I am in Japan now and the few Japanese people I have spoken to are kind of `meh` about it.
Steve Jobs was on NHK when I awoke this morning - apparently Softbank have the contract over here.
My understanding is that the Japanese version will have W-CDMA (UMTS/3GSM or FOMA), so they're better off and shouldn't complain. Then again, they won't get it for a year. ;)
thegelding
2007-01-12, 10:19
i live in the US and i have to likely wait a year and a half or longer till it is non cingular (no way am i getting all 12 members of my family that are on the same plan to all switch)...
the day it is on verizon is the day i buy one
g
the day it is on verizon is the day i buy one
There might never be an EV-DO/CDMA2000 version for the simple fact that nobody outside of North America uses those standards.
Has anyone ever heard of any rumblings about Verizon switching to GSM in the future?
Has anyone ever heard of any rumblings about Verizon switching to GSM in the future?
When I was still selling phones, I heard rumblings of lots of things, including Cingular buying Verizon. I don't see any of it being true. As long as Verizon satisfies its customers, they have little or no reason to switch to GSM, IMO. It would be extremely expensive--almost prohibitively so.
(Upon further thinking, it occurred to me that my first Cingular phone was not GSM. I don't recall what they used in the beginning, but it wasn't GSM.)
thegelding
2007-01-12, 11:11
i would figure apple could make a verizon version...they do have many brands at verizon, many the same as cingular has...so a gsm phone could be a whatever verizon is (how do you people know all this stuff...personally, and this is maybe shortsighted, i couldn't care what "platform" my phone is, i just care how it works and if i have good coverage and lots of people in my area/plan...cingular didn't even have coverage in my area till just recently, so it wasn't even an option when i started using a cell phone)
i don't travel outside north america anyways...if i plan to i will get a phone card like my daughter did when she toured europe and couldn't use her verizon phone
g
i would figure apple could make a verizon version...they do have many brands at verizon, many the same as cingular has...so a gsm phone could be a whatever verizon is (how do you people know all this stuff...personally, and this is maybe shortsighted, could care what "platform" my phone is, i just care how it works and if i have good coverage and lots of people in my area/plan...cingular didn't even have coverage in my area till just recently, so it wasn't even an option when i started using a cell phone)
i don't travel outside north america anyways...if i plan to i will get a phone card like my daughter did when she toured europe and couldn't use her verizon phone
g
People who travel internationally care what platform the phone is because quad-band GSM will work nearly everywhere in the world that has cellular coverage. Your daughter's Verizon phone didn't work in Europe because it's CDMA, and that's not used anywhere else in the world. (Sprint also uses CDMA here in the states; Nextel uses iDEN, a CDMA/GSM hybrid.)
For people who don't travel abroad, it typically doesn't make much of a difference. In fact, CDMA coverage tends to be, in general, just a bit more wide-spread than GSM coverage in the state.
(Upon further thinking, it occurred to me that my first Cingular phone was not GSM. I don't recall what they used in the beginning, but it wasn't GSM.)
TDMA
TDMA
Note, though, that GSM uses TDMA.
bassplayinMacFiend
2007-01-12, 13:42
Wasn't it GPRS or something?
GPRS is a data standard on top of GSM, just like EDGE (only lesser).
Note, though, that GSM uses TDMA.
Maybe so, that them makes sense as to why SunCom/Cingular/ATT Wireless moved from TDMA to GSM. GSM may be able to use TDMA or be built from it, but TDMA isn't the same as GSM. I"m not sure of the intricate differences between GMS and TDMA, other than they are not the same and TDMA is being phased out here in the USA. My local area still had TDMA active for those who have refused to give up the service. TDMA will work with the old AMPS systems, this was one of the perks to TDMA. I'm guessing the GMS is TDMA packaged differently, as in a different carrier signal.
GPRS is the internet on GSM systems. Global Packet Radio Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPRS).
Wiki on D-AMPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-AMPS) or TDMA used here in the states.
Ah, Cingular used D-AMPS.
When I was still selling phones, I heard rumblings of lots of things, including Cingular buying Verizon. I don't see any of it being true. As long as Verizon satisfies its customers, they have little or no reason to switch to GSM, IMO. It would be extremely expensive--almost prohibitively so.
1) Cingular could never afford to buy VZW. They're worth far more than Cingular can fathom.
2) The majority of VZW's residential (note: noob) customers are satisfied with the outdated CDMA technology but their corporate customers are not. When I leave the US on business, I cannot get any service with my phone.
3) VZW could most definitely afford a switch to GSM so long as they did it in portions [with the east being first, of course :) ] After all, they blow billions on upgrades to their towers and technologies each year.
I've split this thread from the iPhone Discussion (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=21764) thread so this subject could be a bit more legible.
Please use this thread for discussing matters of the iPhone and its restrictiveness to Cingular and GSM.
Please use the other (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=21781) thread for a general discussion of Cingular as a service.
BarracksSi
2007-01-12, 21:22
Two things that would be cool --
Being able to take the phone overseas and still have all of its features available to use;
Being able to replace the SIM card with a prepaid calling card type and getting most, or all, of the functions. I didn't know about these until I was already in Germany for a week. It's just like those prepaid international calling cards you get where you'd enter about forty digits into a pay phone, except that it's just a SIM card, and you'd use your GSM/GPRS/SDWEKSAASDFGA cell phone.
Two things that would be cool --
Being able to take the phone overseas and still have all of its features available to use;
Being able to replace the SIM card with a prepaid calling card type and getting most, or all, of the functions. I didn't know about these until I was already in Germany for a week. It's just like those prepaid international calling cards you get where you'd enter about forty digits into a pay phone, except that it's just a SIM card, and you'd use your GSM/GPRS/SDWEKSAASDFGA cell phone.
Seems the voicemail wouldn't function overseas yet. Though I don't see why they wouldn't allow unlocking for world travelers. Of course, if they allow this, then why not allow you to also unlock it for local changes too? I"m sure to unlock for "world phone" users would be at a cost too.
halo1982
2007-01-12, 22:53
As for CDMA, currently it's used in North/South America, Asia (Russia, China, South Korea) etc...GSM is still far more popular and open, though. But CDMA is used in a lot more than just the US.
This thread is dildos.
BarracksSi
2007-01-13, 14:18
I know that someone mentioned 3G being a bigger power drain than GSM. I saw some outside commentary today that supported that notion:
from http://crunchgear.com/2007/01/12/the-futurist-reading-the-apple-tea-leaves-or-what-the-iphone-tells-us-about-the-future/
THE CASE OF THE MISSING 3G
A high-up source at a non-Apple cell phone company recently told me he utilizes a hack on his smartphone to disable its 3G capabilities–the added juice just sucks up too much battery to be worthwhile. Considering the intense music and movie demands that most consumers are going to be placing on their iPhones, it is my guess that Apple made a conscience decision that throwing 3G on it would result in a lot of people complaining about how fast their battery drains, while only minimally utilizing the high-speed network. The math is simple: HSDPA + constant music usage + occasional video playing = piss-poor battery life. Even if you could disable the HSDPA, a lot of people wouldn’t be wise enough to, and the product would probably develop a reputation for poor battery life. And, as Apple knows very well, reputation is everything in this business. Besides, it gives us something to look forward to for the next generation.
I know that someone mentioned 3G being a bigger power drain than GSM. I saw some outside commentary today that supported that notion:
from http://crunchgear.com/2007/01/12/the-futurist-reading-the-apple-tea-leaves-or-what-the-iphone-tells-us-about-the-future/
That really does make sense too. The battery times aren't *great* right now anyway, add the pull of 3G to it. I'm actually a little surprised about the WiFi. That'll kill a battery fast, at least is does on my 8125. I do hope we have the option to kill WiFi though Steve said it would do everything for you. Guess you'll need to keep a dock adapter charger handy at all times.
Except:
1) Steve made it clear 3G is coming soon in a future revision anyway.
2) The WiFi likely takes up even more power, and that obviously didn't take them from doing it.
3) Lots of other smartphones have 3G, so in the long run, an iPhone without 3G is inexcusable no matter what.]
(We cross-posted; this was in response to BarracksSi, not turtle2472.)
Except:
1) Steve made it clear 3G is coming soon in a future revision anyway.
2) The WiFi likely takes up even more power, and that obviously didn't take them from doing it.
3) Lots of other smartphones have 3G, so in the long run, an iPhone without 3G is inexcusable no matter what.]
(We cross-posted; this was in response to BarracksSi, not turtle2472.)
Beat ya. :p
1 -> Most areas here in the US won't touch 3G and since this is the initial launch area it make sense to not support it first. My area is a great example, here in Tidewater there are something close to 3 million for the region but we don't get 3G until the end of the year. Seems Cingular has the equipment installed for the most part but they won't turn it on until the end of the year for some reason.
2 -> I don't think WiFi was really in their calculations for battery life. Maybe they have a magic WiFi chip that burns less battery, but it'll kill my PDA's and 8125 relatively fast. I'm looking forward to so IRL usage of WiFi.
3 -> I'm sure 3G will be available by the time it is released in markets that actually support it. I think there are only a handful of regions that support 3G in the US right now. So I can't say it's inexcusable yet, most won't have 3G capabilities by their cell towers anyway.
Beat ya. :p
:(
So I can't say it's inexcusable yet, most won't have 3G capabilities by their cell towers anyway.
I said "inexcusable in the long run", not for a while. ;)
The current feature set is alright in that respect.
davidbaldwin
2007-01-13, 19:56
"3G (HSDPA) is available only in a few cities."
That statement is (un)officially incorrect.
I used to work as a Cingular Sales Rep (I quit in December, now I wish I hadn't).
Anway, before I left Cingular sent out memos to everyone that touted that Cingular had 3G access in all markets with a a population of 100,000 or over.
Cingular was of course telling us this, so we could sell more 3G phones, and more data plans.
Cingular also did mention that their official count of 3G access would be a lot smaller than it actually is, just so they can make sure that everything is smoothed out before making it official, but if you live in a market with over 100,000 population, most likely, you already have 3G wether you know it or not.
Also...and the Most import thing..
is that Cingular mentioned that at the current rate, they plan to have 3G access nation wide by the end of 2007. That's not a type, i remember because I was suprised, but they later said that the memo was correct, nationwide access by the end of 2007.
So, why did Apple put EDGE in the phone and not 3G?
Simple, to give iPhone users cheaper data plans. If I'm on EDGE I cant download as fast as 3G. Which means, that the average user will use a lot less bandwidth. So, since iPhone users will be using less bandwith, Cingular (at&t) can offer much cheaper data rates (I'm thinking $20 to match the "smart phones"). It would also be nice to see them throw in text messaging (under the new at&t), but I'm not going to hold my breath.
The WiFi will also lower the amount of bandwidth that the average user uses on the Cingular network, therby making it cheaper for Cingular, so (I know this is a shocker) they can pass the savings to the customer.
Also, this phone is going to be marketed to Consumers, not Business users. The reason Cingular's data is so expencive is because they know that PDA users CAN pay that much. "They do it, becasue they can." If your trying to market a phone to consumers, then you cant wack them out the nose for data.
Then again, they might REQUIRE the unlimited data. T-mobile does this with the Sidekick, but it's only $20 a mouth with unlimited texting. The sidekick isn't 3G, and people love that phone...so who gives?
I'm not in a 3G market at the moment anyway, but it dosn't bother me too bad, because I have WiFi at home and school, where else do I go?
You must also consider that the only other Cingular phone to get WiFi is the Cingular 8525. The phone is marketed to business users and has an unlimited data price of $40 a mouth (with voice plan). I'm sorry, but thats ridiculous.
Your World Delivered,
Baldwin
The last post isn't entirely factual. The 8125 also has WiFi. I also only pay $20 for unlimited data with MediaNet unlimited.
davidbaldwin
2007-01-13, 20:28
The last post isn't entirely factual. The 8125 also has WiFi. I also only pay $20 for unlimited data with MediaNet unlimited.
the 8125 is on the way out, the 8525 is it's replacement.
If you go onto Cingular's website and try to purchase the 8525 it will not give you the MediaNet option, because Cingular's documentation states that the PDA's and Smartphones are not compatible with MediaNet and that they have their own data plans.
Company-owned Cingular stores (as far as I know) will not allow you to add the option.
A customer can add the MediaNET by calling cingular directly, or going online (I believe).
I talked with one of my friends who was higher up in the Cingular world about this when one of my customers brought it up. They told me they are working on getting it set so customers will no longer be able to use MediaNet on PDA's and Smarthphones. He also told me that they are working on stopping Tethering on non-thethered accounts (currently you can do it on MediaNet).
Simple reason...they are losing money...or they think they are...
Yeah, I tether all the time too. :) Both USB and BT.
infinitespecter
2007-01-13, 21:46
That really does make sense too. The battery times aren't *great* right now anyway, add the pull of 3G to it. I'm actually a little surprised about the WiFi. That'll kill a battery fast, at least is does on my 8125. I do hope we have the option to kill WiFi though Steve said it would do everything for you. Guess you'll need to keep a dock adapter charger handy at all times.
What annoys me the most is that if they'd let us change the flipping battery like every other cell phone on earth, this wouldn't be a huge issue. The phone is significantly smaller then my Treo is now, so I would have no problems with buying a thicker, higher capacity battery for it.
davidbaldwin
2007-01-14, 01:09
What annoys me the most is that if they'd let us change the flipping battery like every other cell phone on earth, this wouldn't be a huge issue. The phone is significantly smaller then my Treo is now, so I would have no problems with buying a thicker, higher capacity battery for it.
I used to work for Cingular...
most people don't know where the battery compartment is even located at..
they just hand it to you and tell you to fix it.
No Removable Battery on the iPod (Have you gotten over that one?)
No Removable Battery on the iPhone.
I was suprised my MacBook had a removable battery...
Have a nice day,
-Baldwin
infinitespecter
2007-01-14, 01:37
No Removable Battery on the iPhone.
Big difference between an iPod (a device that I listen to music on) and my phone (which is my lifeline to the outside world when I am away from home).
I just read on Engadget that Verizon was the original choice for the iPhone. This is very, very interesting to me. What this means is that they have fiddled around with the idea of a CDMA version of the iPhone, and that if Verizon would have met their demands we'd be seeing that right now.
To me, this is a sign of things to come. If the iPhone takes off the way that Apple wants it / expects it to, I have a hunch that exclusivity agreement with Cingular will come to a crashing halt.
There is far too much money available in the market and too many other options for them to stick with only one carrier if the iPhone becomes the next 'iPod'.
Any thoughts on this matter?
pscates2.0
2007-01-29, 13:48
Is that something that can be "brought to a crashing halt"? They'd have to honor that agreed-upon term, right (which USA Today reports is "five years").
:confused:
Or are there ways out of that for Apple (or Cingular), should things change (for the good or bad).
I don't know, I'm asking. I'm not hip to the business/legal jive...
I just read on Engadget that Verizon was the original choice for the iPhone.
"Original choice" is misleading. They were an alternative. Apple contacted both companies. It doesn't mean that Apple favored one or the other; it just so happens that Verizon found the terms unacceptable and Cingular did not.
This is very, very interesting to me. What this means is that they have fiddled around with the idea of a CDMA version of the iPhone, and that if Verizon would have met their demands we'd be seeing that right now.
Not necessarily. If both Verizon and Cingular had agreed, then Apple still wouldn't necessarily have picked Verizon. There are several advantages to either choice.
Is that something that can be "brought to a crashing halt"? They'd have to honor that agreed-upon term, right (which USA Today reports is "five years").
:confused:
Or are there ways out of that for Apple (or Cingular), should things change (for the good or bad).
I don't know, I'm asking. I'm not hip to the business/legal jive...
Well, knowing that its 5 years and not two I would say its less likely to happen. Funny how they are both reported on the same day :) .
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