iTunes 5.0 speculation [Archive]

Jim S.

2004-11-20, 17:03

I did a search and found that iTunes 4.0 was launched on April 28, 2003. That's almost 19 months ago and we all know that iPods and iTunes are the "big thing" at Apple these days. With Christmas coming, Apple would want to keep people thinking about Apple in order to sell more iPods, music and even gift certificates. It's pure speculation, but they've had plenty of time to create iTunes 5.0 and it sure seems like this would be the perfect time to drop the bomb. What new features do you expect in iTunes 5.0?

I'll kick it off by recalling previous rumors that songs from the iTMS could be downloaded and played for a few times before they would "expire". That would be a big improvement on the 30-second previews.

ast3r3x

2004-11-20, 17:22

No way they would do that. Talk about easily stolen. Once the file is in someone else's possession, it's easy for them to keep it.

I would guess the'll be an iTunes 5.0 sometime, but I'm not really sure what it would contain. I mean do we need/even want more features?

Messiahtosh

2004-11-20, 17:32

More album art.

Lyrics included in said album art.

Luca

2004-11-20, 17:34

Ugh. Just more shit for me to delete.

SKMDC

2004-11-20, 17:42

4.7 was a pretty major update to accommodate all the new stores, we may see a 4.8 before christmas, but wouldn't a 5.0 release coincide with a new garageband update? I don't think we'll see 5.0 til Tiger or just before.

DMBand0026

2004-11-20, 18:01

Features? Pfft...who needs features?

I just want to know what color the new icon will be :D

Wrao

2004-11-20, 18:05

The only thing I really want to see is search by label on the iTMS

Messiahtosh

2004-11-20, 18:08

The only thing I really want to see is search by label on the iTMSIt'd be amazing to search by lyrics as well...

Jim S.

2004-11-20, 18:10

It's hard to think this way but iTunes is actually bigger as Windows software than Mac software so I would not anticipate a major connection to Tiger or iLife 2005. Also, the subscription services have figured out a way to make songs "expire" so it seems likely that Apple could do it if they wanted to. One thing I would like is an easier way to synch our different computers with music we buy on one of them.

DMBand0026

2004-11-20, 18:18

You are aware that iTunes has a built in sharing function?

Run iTunes on more than one computer on a network, make sure sharing is on (In preferences, in the Sharing pane), than it'll show up on the other computers running iTunes as a shared playlist. Click on the song you bought and hit play, type in your iTMS password, and you're in business.

If you want to copy the actual file...it depends on if you're running Mac or windows. If it's a Mac, it's easier than you think.

Open up your Hard Disc, click on "network" in the sidebar, find the Mac in your house with the music on it, double click, username, password, find your music and copy it over.

Brad

2004-11-20, 18:45

Also, the subscription services have figured out a way to make songs "expire" so it seems likely that Apple could do it if they wanted to.
Ah, yes. Those subscription services all use the DRM implementation by Windows Media. Apple would have to completely rewrite the DRM mechanism it's currently using and would have to struggle with the ease-of-use issues.

Remember that one of the biggest reasons behind iPod and iTunes' success is simplicity. You want music on your computer? Click import or buy. Boom, it's yours. End of story. The file is yours forever and you can do anything you want with it. It makes sense to just about any user. Change the freedoms of this formula and start making files behave in seemingly erratic ways, though, and you suddenly throw a gigantic wrench into the works.

HOM

2004-11-20, 19:39

I got one simple feature request.

A fucking shuffle feature that actually works!

I did a very unscientific study and found that iTunes shuffle favors iTMS songs then AAC files and finally MP3 in a ration of about 3:2:1.

When the click wheel iPods came out they was so proud of the randomizer. Maybe they should actually implement a randomizer and not the piece of shit that's in there now. You know, stop licking grundle and do your fucking job?

Oh then there is the little thing that has been bothering me since my first iPod circa November 2001. Make the iPod respect a playlist's shuffle setting. This all or nothing iPod shuffle is a fucking embarrassment.

BuonRotto

2004-11-20, 22:59

� Sirius or XM radio over IP (with subscription)
� more flexible/revamped browse feature
� more flexible smart playlist options
� ability to order/download CD jackets and/or booklets (not just cover art)
� lyric search? I remember some weird RIAA hysteria over this
� crossfade burning to audio CDs
� separate checkboxes for songs in playlists from the ones in the Library
� new album art visualizer plus dashboard/like control a la iPhoto
� "smart" ranking system: option for files to gain/lose rank based on play count, number of playlists it's in, average rank for artist tracks, etc.

PS: HOM needs a hug. :p

BlueRabbit

2004-11-21, 01:14

Features? Pfft...who needs features?

I just want to know what color the new icon will be :D

Well, they've already done blue, green and purple. Going by the mini colors, the only one left is yellow/gold/orange. However, they might make it red� :p

Jim S.

2004-11-21, 06:48

With all the iTunes/iPod hysteria, I wondered why they would let 19 months go by without a major update. Now I know why. Many of the features that have been listed would take a lot of work to implement. Imagine obtaining and loading over a million sets of lyrics and CD case materials. Many of the other improvements are software tweaks that they could certainly do quickly of they wanted to. I do agree with HOM that simple features like shuffle could use some attention. Regarding how easy it is to keep multiple computers up to date (laptops do travel!), this is the best method I have found which is way to difficult for most people to want to deal with.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93474

Barto

2004-11-21, 07:43

The lyrics would be difficult because of the many disreputable web sites hosting them. CD cover art is easy with the Amazon API - Delicious Library uses it, as do many other third party scripts and applications.

There have been so many minor updates to iTunes since 4.0 that it's like the difference between major versions. Apple has never been very consistent with version numbers so I'm not surprised.

Kickaha

2004-11-21, 12:05

Actually, they've been very consistent since OS X started.

X.0: Major rewrite of the app
x.Y: New features
x.y.Z: Bug fixes, minor tweaks to existing features

It's the common and accepted numbering scheme used in the industry. Well, by everyone but MS.

Until iTunes undergoes a massive revamp under the hood, it won't get the 5.0 moniker. CoreAudio being used instead of QuickTime, for instance, would qualify.

DMBand0026

2004-11-21, 12:44

So there may be a Tiger-only version of iTunes that's designed to take advantage of the core audio functionality?

Hmmm...I might have to buy Tiger.

Kickaha

2004-11-21, 12:48

Or QuickTime 7 may indeed turn out to be a unifying task-oriented API over the top of CoreA/V/I, and iTunes will use QT7. Nobody knows at this point.

Interesting times ahead on this front...

Hobbes

2004-11-21, 13:22

Until iTunes undergoes a massive revamp under the hood, it won't get the 5.0 moniker. CoreAudio being used instead of QuickTime, for instance, would qualify.

I'm not so sure about that. They're up to 4.8 already, and they've got to maintain pre-Tiger and Windows compatability...

What would CodeAudio as opposed to QuickTime offer the user? (Honest question. I have no idea.)

I suspect iTunes 5 will have some interesting and stylish new features. A smart rating system would be brilliant. Hierarchical playlists (done in some clean, not-too-confusing Apple way, e.g. "collections") is a given. A way to download liner notes would be enormously appreciated. And a redesigned interface with a dedicated full-height pane to better show album art + album info (esp. with the increasing numbers of letterbox-sized screens) would be great -- though I'm not counting on Apple to mess with success in this dept.

The big addition to the ITMS would be user ratings -- and a link-up to album and band information to something better than, ugh, Muse (too bad AMG's AllMusic is so Windows-friendly. :( )

Messiahtosh

2004-11-21, 13:29

Maybe some interface enhancements? Color scheme changes, things of that nature. All aesthetic updates?

Kickaha

2004-11-21, 13:38

I'm not so sure about that. They're up to 4.8 already,

What does that have to do with anything?

After 4.9 comes 4.10, then 4.11. This isn't a decimal number.

and they've got to maintain pre-Tiger and Windows compatability...

What would CodeAudio as opposed to QuickTime offer the user? (Honest question. I have no idea.)

Incredibly low latency, less CPU use, less chances for stutter, etc.

I suspect iTunes 5 will have some interesting and stylish new features. A smart rating system would be brilliant. Hierarchical playlists (done in some clean, not-too-confusing Apple way, e.g. "collections") is a given. A way to download liner notes would be enormously appreciated. And a redesigned interface with a dedicated full-height pane to better show album art + album info (esp. with the increasing numbers of letterbox-sized screens) would be great -- though I'm not counting on Apple to mess with success in this dept.

The big addition to the ITMS would be user ratings -- and a link-up to album and band information to something better than, ugh, Muse (too bad AMG's AllMusic is so Windows-friendly. :( )

Windows compatibility will be interesting when they move to CoreAudio. QuickTime only *now* is getting the cross-platform support that it should have had all along, so keeping it cross-platform is a must. How that will happen, I have no idea.

Given Apple's wonderful execution of graceful fallback for new technologies though (if the GPU can't handle a certain new tech, fallback to a software renderer on the CPU, etc), I suspect that QT7 will simply be more powerful on the Mac. The same files will playback on the Windows machines, the same codecs will be supported, etc, etc, etc, but it just may not have quite the performance for intensive content *creation* oriented tasks. Since this is Apple's bread and butter, it makes sense for them to make that the best they can on their side.

QT7 will be the same API on both (all?) platforms, but have different performance capabilities on the different hardware. Core* already has quite a bit of graceful fallback in place, has finally ditched the last of the legacy Toolbox, is finally thread-safe and re-entrant, etc, etc, etc. Basically, it's good to go for cross-platform support as the underlying guts of a new QT7 API suite.

Brad

2004-11-21, 13:51

So there may be a Tiger-only version of iTunes that's designed to take advantage of the core audio functionality?Maybe, but not necessarily. While there will certainly be updates (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=612) to Core Audio in Tiger, it is by far nothing new. Core Audio has been a part of the system (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/audio/) since its 10.1 (http://www.macworld.com/news/2001/10/05/audio/index.php).
What would CodeAudio as opposed to QuickTime offer the user?Oh man, what Kickaha said and then so much more. Core Audio support in iTunes would be a godsend with. For starters, there are oodles of Audio Units and VST plugins it could use "for free." Just fire up a copy of Garageband. Get info on a track, expand the details, and look at the popup menus by effects. See those? You could have all those options and more "for free" in iTunes. If you don't have GB, go download Amadeus II. Open it and under the Effects menu, check out Audio Units and VST Plugins. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I for one would be ecstatic to see Core Audio properly implemented in QuickTime 7 and iTunes 5. I know that anyone in the prosumer/professional audio category would too.And a redesigned interface with a dedicated full-height pane to better show album art + album info (esp. with the increasing numbers of letterbox-sized screens) would be great -- though I'm not counting on Apple to mess with success in this dept.It may not be perfect, but you know resizing the sidebar makes album art larger, right?

http://www.project-think.com/images-3/iTunes-art-scaled.jpgMaybe some interface enhancements? Color scheme changes, things of that nature. All aesthetic updates?Has Apple ever released a major product update just for aesthetic improvements?

Hobbes

2004-11-21, 13:51

What does that have to do with anything?

After 4.9 comes 4.10, then 4.11. This isn't a decimal number.

You know that, and I know that, and officially, no it's not. However, as the version number becomes part of the product name, a certain element of marketing enters into it, and "iTunes 4.7" "feels" far more logical and far less geeky than "iTunes 4.10".

I don't think it's concidence that no major Apple software product (for consumers, not devs) has ever made it past .9.

Anyway, my point is simply that Apple's versioning scheme is subject to marketing / aesthetic considerations, esp. for such an important, spotlighted piece of software such as iTunes.

Windows compatibility will be interesting when they move to CoreAudio... [snip]

Interesting... I've been wondering how they're going pull this off too, but it makes a lot more sense the way you frame it. Thanks.

Brad

2004-11-21, 13:56

You know that, and I know that, and officially, no it's not.And you can't prove that it's not officially that way, though. ;) Just because we haven't seen a case of a dot versions rechine 10 before a major revision is released doesn't mean it can't happen.

Case in point: Open Safari's About window. What is the build number for the current release? v125.11. That eleven looks awfully suspicious there!! :)

I don't think it's concidence that no major Apple software product (for consumers, not devs) has ever made it past .9.Because the only products that have reached that far were in the Stone Age before Mac OS X and before a lot of modern, logical thinking was injected into the Apple developer culture. Remember the jump to Mac OS 8.5? How pointless of a marketing device was that? If Apple was still using that mentality, We'd be at Mac OS X 11 by now.

Hobbes

2004-11-21, 14:00

It may not be perfect, but you know resizing the sidebar makes album art larger, right?

I am, thanks. Not perfect is right -- I find the album art pane an addition that feels somewhat tacked on (as it was) and not yet wholly, satisfyingly integrated.

I'll try to post a mock-up to show what I'd really like later on, if I have a chance.

Hobbes

2004-11-21, 14:09

And you can't prove that it's not officially that way, though. ;) Just because we haven't seen a case of a dot versions rechine 10 before a major revision is released doesn't mean it can't happen.

Case in point: Open Safari's About window. What is the build number for the current release? v125.11. That eleven looks awfully suspicious there!! :)

True, it may happen, but knowing how savvy Apple is regarding its marketing, I somehow suspect that it won't.

The difference between a build number in an About box provided for software and web developers and this (http://www.apple.com/itunes/) -- not to mention a number referred to countless Apple Support documents -- is quite different. ;)

I suspect most people understand "4.7" as a decimal, and would find "4.10" a bit confusing.

Must be a slow Sunday if we're talking about this. :)

Kickaha

2004-11-21, 14:16

I suspect most people understand "4.7" as a decimal, and would find "4.10" a bit confusing.

And yet somehow we all understand what 10.3.6 means, which is utterly bogus as a decimal number... ;)

I think most people are 80% of the way there to understanding it, and just need that little bit of explanation. Certainly something that marketing could handle.

"So good, we cranked it up to 11. iTunes 4.11, available now."

Hobbes

2004-11-21, 14:25

And yet somehow we all understand what 10.3.6 means, which is utterly bogus as a decimal number... ;)

Those periods help, though. 10.3.6 is a lot easier to get than "4.16". It's when the .x or .x.x get into the double digits that the number gets (IMO) awkward-looking and odd.

I think most people are 80% of the way there to understanding it, and just need that little bit of explanation. Certainly something that marketing could handle.

"So good, we cranked it up to 11. iTunes 4.11, available now."

Yes, but being forced to explain that your +.01 update is "so good, we cranked it up to 11" is (dare I say) pretty lame.

OK, anyway, no more from me on this one! I'm not in Marketing, just playing one on TV, so perhaps I'm wrong. But I still think we'll see an evolutionary iTunes 5.0 before we see iTunes 4.10.

Kickaha

2004-11-21, 14:30

If so, it will, in my estimation, be strictly technology driven, and have nothing to do with marketing.

psgamer0921

2004-11-21, 16:21

-Lyrics included in downloads/Be able to paste lyrics into a box under Get Info
--Karaoke Mode? (Transparent box on desktop, showing lyrics line by line)

-Getting it to actually work with Windows XP SP2 http://forums.applenova.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

That's all I can think of...

Jim S.

2004-11-21, 17:48

How about adding Apple Lossless Codec as an option from the iTMS? Perhaps an "upgrade" feature that would allow users to upgrade previous M4P files to a new protected Apple Lossless format. I'd chip in some money to be able to upgrade my existing songs. It would be even better if iTunes could conveniently manage multiple formats of the song (M4P for iPods, new Apple Lossless for stereos) and sync user ratings and such.

Messiahtosh

2004-11-21, 18:16

Maybe if iTunes let you sort songs by sound quality. That'd be cool.

Loseless
160 AAC
128 MP3
etc...

Nevermind, it already does that. :)

psgamer0921

2004-11-21, 18:33

Ahh, one more

Different size colums for playlists!

I keep Auto-sizing all my colums, but only to find they don't work for another playlist (Or even better, have an option to automatically resize the column for you)

BuonRotto

2004-11-21, 19:49

Well at the risk of Apple being accused of ripping off another developer's utility, Apple could also revamp the equalizer to dynamically optimize the output a la Volume Logic.

I mean, while I'm a bit wary of making some features too "smart" to the point of making too many assumptions (e.g., the Word paperclip), but I think that for these secondary and often under-utilized features are, well under-utilized because people don't want to go through the effort. If some reasonable automated system can be toggled, with a manual or user-selected override (e.g., your own star rating on a file or the manual EQ preset), then I don't think it's a problem.

Is there anything more fundamental or essential that iTunes could use? We know that broadcasting or sharing is unfortunately crippled and will likely stay that way. I can't really think of anything more substantial offhand.

rasmits

2004-11-21, 22:53

Full album art, including booklet and liner notes. The lyrics thing is good, and maybe links to buy posters or something for the band. They could do it with movies too.

Oh and, an ability to search for music videos.

Wrao

2004-11-21, 23:20

byzantium

2004-11-22, 06:03

iTunes already kinda of can have lyrics and liner notes, in that, you can store multiple images in the album cover section, then click on them to make them full sized.

Now apple just needs to provide high resolution liner notes in conjunction with that feature to satisfy you people asking for album notes...etc.

Well I don't think that's a good idea!

text as graphics takes up more space then plain unicode text
text as graphics isn't searchable

really one of my biggest gripes, is that itunes stores a copy of the album cover with every track in the album! Talk about a waste of space. Synergy does it much smarter.

Now lyrics are song dependent, and should be stored as plain text so they are easily searchable, copy-pasted, etc.

bassplayinMacFiend

2004-11-22, 07:43

What does that have to do with anything?

After 4.9 comes 4.10, then 4.11. This isn't a decimal number.

Incredibly low latency, less CPU use, less chances for stutter, etc.

Windows compatibility will be interesting when they move to CoreAudio. QuickTime only *now* is getting the cross-platform support that it should have had all along, so keeping it cross-platform is a must. How that will happen, I have no idea.

Given Apple's wonderful execution of graceful fallback for new technologies though (if the GPU can't handle a certain new tech, fallback to a software renderer on the CPU, etc), I suspect that QT7 will simply be more powerful on the Mac. The same files will playback on the Windows machines, the same codecs will be supported, etc, etc, etc, but it just may not have quite the performance for intensive content *creation* oriented tasks. Since this is Apple's bread and butter, it makes sense for them to make that the best they can on their side.

QT7 will be the same API on both (all?) platforms, but have different performance capabilities on the different hardware. Core* already has quite a bit of graceful fallback in place, has finally ditched the last of the legacy Toolbox, is finally thread-safe and re-entrant, etc, etc, etc. Basically, it's good to go for cross-platform support as the underlying guts of a new QT7 API suite.

Just want to point out that at the moment, CoreAudio doesn't do mp3 encode/decode. The only place to do this is in QuickTime. Hopefully Apple will add mp3 into CoreAudio but I wonder if they've held back from this due to political reasons?

Brad

2004-11-22, 08:19

Hopefully Apple will add mp3 into CoreAudio but I wonder if they've held back from this due to political reasons?Licensing. iTunes uses the Fraunhofer IIS software.

dviant

2004-11-22, 09:18

Only feature I really want is the ability to select songs by the "!" (i.e. the iTunes-can't-find-it marker) so I can easily ditch all the damn songs I no longer have on my hard drive.

Wrao

2004-11-22, 09:39

Only feature I really want is the ability to select songs by the "!" (i.e. the iTunes-can't-find-it marker) so I can easily ditch all the damn songs I no longer have on my hard drive.

good one.

Luca

2004-11-22, 10:41

I just let iTunes keep the music folder organized. I didn't realize this until I started using Windows, but I guess it'll let you keep your music wherever you want and still copy/delete songs to your selected music folder. Anyway, it just copies songs to the right place in the folder when you open them with iTunes, and it moves them to the trash when you delete them from the library.

I'd like to see some Automator-like features in the next version. It would be nice to easily change how various songs are labeled. What if you want to change the way the song's information is displayed? A former Winamp user, for instance, might have his songs labeled in the "Artist name - Song name" format, because that's easier when you're just browsing a list of files. But in iTunes, it's better to have the artist's name and song name be separate. Being able to switch between the two, or do just about any other time-consuming task like that, would be useful.

Brad

2004-11-22, 11:57

Only feature I really want is the ability to select songs by the "!" (i.e. the iTunes-can't-find-it marker) so I can easily ditch all the damn songs I no longer have on my hard drive.I'm pretty sure there's an AppleScript for this...

Yup!

http://www.apple.com/applescript/itunes/

Remove Missing Tracks -- will remove every track whose file is missing on disk

Messiahtosh

2004-11-22, 12:39

Logging in from the campus computer store's G5 and 20'' Cinema display...and just thinking that if this is all we can come up with, then that just goes to show what an amazing job Apple's done with iTunes.

LudwigVan

2004-11-22, 15:29

Wrao

2004-11-22, 15:36

Apparently the new DVD player in Tiger has the ability to impose bookmarks on and create short clips (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0411revisitingtiger1.html) from longer video works. I'd like to see the same thing in iTunes with musical works. I run across longer tracks all the time, and it would be nice to break up, say, the last movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or the movements from his Missa Solemnis into bite-size chunks for navigational ease.

Yup, I've been wanting this feature for at least 2 versions, though I often forget about it because I don't end up listening to super long tracks all the time partially due to the fact that I don't have on cue the part I want to listen to :lol:

*puts on the rite of spring, begrudgingly* ;)

Brad

2004-11-22, 15:43

The difference in that regard, though, between DVD Player and iTunes is that iTunes already offers you the ability to immediately jump to any playback location. You want to be half-way through the song? *click* You're there.

DVD Player doesn't offer a nonlinear time track like iTunes and therefore needs this feature a lot more.

dviant

2004-11-22, 15:44

Excellent, thanks Brad!

EDIT: Oops maybe I spoke too soon. The "remove missing files" script only returns errors when I try to use it in iTunes 4.7 :( Trying this (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/18547) now...

EDITEDIT: Ok that 2nd script set i linked to worked when I did small selections but its not very speedy. As in you wonder if it's bombed when you try to apply it to a 32 gig library.

My initial request above still stands. :grumble:

Wrao

2004-11-22, 15:45

-Lyrics included in downloads/Be able to paste lyrics into a box under Get Info
--Karaoke Mode? (Transparent box on desktop, showing lyrics line by line)

Remember soundjam? It had karaoke mode, that did some filters to lower the vocal feed while, optimistically keeping the instrument levels intact. It barely worked but it was a nice idea.

LudwigVan

2004-11-22, 18:32

The difference in that regard, though, between DVD Player and iTunes is that iTunes already offers you the ability to immediately jump to any playback location. You want to be half-way through the song? *click* You're there.

It's not so much that I "want to be half-way through the song" so much as be at this particular point or that particular point without having to remember the timings or scrub through the track playing "Where the Hell is It?"�.

(Just had another idea: offer the capability to loop these x second clips too.)

DVD Player doesn't offer a nonlinear time track like iTunes and therefore needs this feature a lot more.

You've got a good point there.

BuonRotto

2004-11-22, 19:01

It's amazing how much Applescript can do in the meantime.

Did you try this script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/scripts01.php?page=2#removedeadsuper) to eliminate the dead tracks?
This script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/scripts11.php?page=1#googlelyricsearch) uses Google to search for lyrics.
This script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=artistnamecorrector) changes the filename to "artist - track name."
This script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/scripts07.php?page=1#makebookmarkable) changes your AAC files into bookmarkable AAC files. I doubt it works on iTMS tracks though. This script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/scripts04.php?page=3#bookmarksservice) does something similar I think.
There's even this script (http://www.malcolmadams.com/itunes/scripts/scripts01.php?page=1#irate) that begins to address the "smart" ratings idea I threw around.

nassau

2004-11-23, 20:56

i want iTUnes to do true fast forward and rewind like quicktime does. iTunes plays a clippped up unpitched version of the track while quicktime actually pitches it up AND really plays it backwards when rewinding.

futuretheory

2004-11-24, 01:43

Ogg Vorbis support please.

Brad

2004-11-24, 03:18

iTunes .ogg stuff (http://members.optusnet.com.au/lbramsay/misc/itunes-ogg.html)

Jim S.

2004-11-24, 08:07

Does Ogg Vorbis result in smaller files that Apple Lossless? If not, what's the advantage? Thanks.

dfiler

2004-11-24, 14:55

On my wishlist is CD-TEXT.
Why doesn't iTunes just burn the tags as CD-TEXT. There is absolutely no reason not too! :grumble:

My other wish is for apple to leverage it's power in the music industry and introduce a couple tags. In particular, I would like to see 'lyrics' and 'featuring'. I have quite a few songs by one artist that 'feature' another artist. If this is left in the artist tag, then browsing by artist is a pain. Lyrics? Seems so obvious...

Oh yeah...
Did I say CD-TEXT?
Why no CD-TEXT yet?

Luca

2004-11-24, 15:46

Does Ogg Vorbis result in smaller files that Apple Lossless? If not, what's the advantage? Thanks.
Yes, much, much smaller files. Ogg Vorbis is a very high-quality, compressed audio format. It's like MP3 or AAC, but better. It's also open source.

Kickaha

2004-11-24, 17:15

Er, define 'better'. It's good, no doubt, but 'better' than AAC? AAC+? I guess it depends on your definition of better.

Edit: Yeah, Ogg is smaller than Apple LOSSLESS. I mean, ya think? So are MP3, AAC, and transcribing it by hand with a paintbrush on a piece of rice, I gather. No one's going to claim that Ogg isn't smaller... but the sound quality is less than Apple LOSSLESS. Any lossy format is. You want small files/low bitrate and good quality, there's a new codec designed for tiny bandwidth (like 32-48kpbs) but 192kbps MP3 quality that just got accepted as part of MPEG-4's suite of technologies, but darned if I can recall the name.

Barto

2004-11-24, 17:57

OGG is like AAC and WMA in the sense that it's supposed to be better than MP3 and is no where near as compatible as MP3. Heh.

Brad

2004-11-25, 01:32

MP3, MP3PRO, Ogg Vorbis, AAC overview:

http://www.ipodlounge.com/articles_more.php?id=271_0_8_0_M

It's worth noting that the article was written before iTMS existed.

Jim S.

2004-11-25, 08:49

One thing that iTunes 5.0 desperately needs is two "year" codes. The current year code is the year the CD was released. Users of smart playlists would also like the year the music was originally released. I've purchased a lot of oldies from iTMS and many of the songs show recent years since they are from "Best of..." or "Remastered" CDs that were recently released. If I want to make a smart playlist of 60's music, those songs would be missed unless there's a new field for the year released. I looked at CDDB a long time ago and they do have both fields so it's simply a matter of iTunes adding the field. This seems pretty simple and would be a great feature!

dfiler

2004-11-26, 14:50

Perhaps Apple should allocate some serious resources to researching how tags are used.

Currently, it seems that they're almost there... in that the tags they chose enabled the iTunes browsing that revolutionized the industry. However, there is work to be done. I suspect that a handful of tags could integrated into the iTunes GUI without bogging things down. The fine line of course would be picking which tags to use. Feature creap quickly leads to bloat. Yet, I think just a few more would be reasonable. <fingers crossed>

Kickaha

2004-11-26, 17:09

Almost sounds like you want metadata... ;)

Paul

2004-11-26, 23:11

well in terms of liner notes the new U2 album and "Box Set" both come with a pdf dubbed a "digital booklet" see info here (http://playlistmag.com/weblogs/todayatplaylist/2004/11/liners/index.php)
adding more "id3 tag entries" (metadata) would be a very good idea, but Apple needs to start thinking about publishing their own ccdb type of setup through the iTMS where users could download and sync information for free... lyrics and other "digital booklets" could be set up as well....

re: 4.8, 4.9, 4.10... did apple skip a few numbers? I remember 4.0, 4.0.1, 4.1, 4.2, 4.5, 4.6, and 4.7 were there any others? Why did they skip .3 and .4? 5 will probably come before they even reach 4.9 anyway so the debate is pretty frivolous...

chucker

2004-11-27, 06:08

iTunes .ogg stuff (http://members.optusnet.com.au/lbramsay/misc/itunes-ogg.html)

Doesn't work with Streaming though.

dglow

2004-11-29, 03:27

One request: iTunes solves the gapless playback problem in a manner more satisfactory than "join tracks".

For instance, allow me to define a property for any given song: 'fades out', 'sudden stop', or 'flows into following song'. Now use this information to modulate playback. If contiguous songs on an album are supposed to play without pause then please don't crossfade regardless of my preference settings. Likewise, I would like to denote that certain tracks should always be followed by x seconds of silence. Some songs simply demand a brief pause before playback continues to the next track, IMHO.

Ideally playlists would further support this level of control via setting a 'transition' between tracks. Bonus points: do the same for iPod playback.

I've read others speculate that gapless playback and related features are impossible to support for compressed formats. I find this difficult to believe. WinAMP provided gapless MP3 playback, what, 5 years ago? C'mon, Apple - stop making excuses and fix this. Please.

onlyafterdark

2004-11-29, 12:10

Pretty please.

dfiler

2004-11-29, 20:44

This post is the gripe of a windows/iPod using friend of mine. Despite severe mocking, he's sticking to winAmp. Reason? ...

iTunes stops playing from your library if you browse to elsewhere in the library. Please fix so that users can browse without halting playback!

futuretheory

2004-11-29, 21:31

Allow me to listen to streaming Ogg Vorbis PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

Oh screw it, I'm sick of asking. Just make it happen.

Kickaha

2004-11-29, 21:39

Depends on the streaming server they use. :} I have a buddy at a local college radio station that was struggling with this. Turned out that it was their server - one popular one (icecast?) makes a non-standard stream. They were using it. They stopped, switched to another, and iTunes worked.

onlyafterdark

2004-11-29, 22:26

I would really like to see some speed increases and less of a hindrence on the CPU. It seems like with every new release of iTunes it gets slower and takes up more resources. And now with the incorperation of the iPod photo, I dont think things are going to get any better.

DMBand0026

2004-11-30, 10:32

People are under the common misconception that a music player should take up no CPU power. In actuality, it should hover around 15-20% of CPU usage. iTunes is not a CPU hog, it's right at or even above par in that regard. As far as resources go, get more RAM, your computer will run better and you'll thank yourself later.

dglow

2004-11-30, 15:12

Furthermore, consider the scenario where a user plays an Apple Lossless file to remote speakers:

In this case iTunes is 1) decompressing the lossless encoding, 2) applying any equalization or other audio settings, then 3) re-compressing into lossless before streaming out to the Aiport Expresss. This is a non-trivial amount of calculation by any measure - no wonder the CPU gets hit!

onlyafterdark

2004-11-30, 16:49

futuretheory

2004-11-30, 23:47

Doesn't work with Streaming though.

Exactly, there are A LOT of streams out there in Ogg Vorbis that I can't listen too.

Also, I'm a switcher, well sort of. I have always had a mac but I also have a PC, on which I burned a ton of CD's in high-quality Ogg Vorbis before I considered AAC and iPod as an option (a while ago). At the time I wanted support for 5.1 sound and other high-end stuff and AAC wasn't reviewed yet--Ogg isn't DRM'ed either. I really don't want to have to re-import that much music, in fact I doubt all the CD's are still around and/or unscathed. There is support out there with some helper plugs, but I can pull music off my server with it yet. All my new stuff is AAC, but damn it would be nice to have Ogg streams in iTunes and on iPod.

Please??

Brad

2004-12-01, 00:09

Ogg isn't DRM'ed either.For the record, I just want to make sure you know that none of the music you import yourself with iTunes is DRM'd. The only AAC files that have DRM are the ones you buy from Apple.

Kickaha

2004-12-01, 00:12

Exactly, there are A LOT of streams out there in Ogg Vorbis that I can't listen too.

Yes, the ones that produce non-standard streams. :P Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that the developers of the broken streaming servers will fix it just for iTunes, since everyone else seems to have bowed to their bugs already.

DMBand0026

2004-12-01, 11:14

Good points by all, but I still dont understand why it needs to take up ~15-20% if the iTunes window is not open, and all you are doing is playing songs straight from a playlist without random being on.

I think that was relatively well explained by all above. The UI won't cause iTunes to take up anymore CPU, so hiding it or closing the window won't help that. iTunes is working really hard under the hood. It's like a duck, above water it seems so calm and cool, but below water it's paddling like crazy. ;)

15% CPU usage isn't a lot, not by a long shot. Years ago there were music players available that took a considerable amount more. Jukebox software has made drastic strides.

futuretheory

2004-12-01, 11:30

For the record, I just want to make sure you know that none of the music you import yourself with iTunes is DRM'd. The only AAC files that have DRM are the ones you buy from Apple.

Of course, didn't I say that I'm using AAC now? Ogg was more viable at the time I ripped those CD's--especially on a PC, even more so if you thought you might move over to Linux. Not to mention, I'd like to see an open source media format do well; we consumers could really use it, though it seems unlikely.

I would personally like to see iTunes on Linux soon, helping Linux helps Apple IMHO.

Yes, the ones that produce non-standard streams. :P

Finally, Kickaha said Ogg Vorbis streams should work in iTunes if they are implemented correctly. I have yet to see one that does, yet in other apps they stream fine (how do you define standard?). Please point me to a working stream and any information on setting up an Ogg stream "correctly", I'm thinking of setting this up at home and would like my itunes to understand it. Thanks!!

DMBand0026

2004-12-01, 11:50

I would personally like to see iTunes on Linux soon, helping Linux helps Apple IMHO.

That's next to impossible. Biggest reason being, all Linux UIs look like dick, iTunes does not. They'd have to hire someone with no design sense to take a preverbal crap all over the iTunes UI. Other than that, it's feasible, and very doable.

;)

Kickaha

2004-12-01, 12:49

Actually, they'd just have to hire someone to write custom widgets for just about everything to make it look like iTunes.

Oh yeah, that'd be fun.

chucker

2004-12-01, 12:56

Yes, the ones that produce non-standard streams. :P Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that the developers of the broken streaming servers will fix it just for iTunes, since everyone else seems to have bowed to their bugs already.

iTunes' Rendezvous / FUS sharing (DAAP) doesn't appear to accept Ogg Vorbis either, unfortunately.

Jim S.

2004-12-02, 18:08

Would Apple need to pay licensing fees to use Ogg Vorbis in iTunes and iPods? If so, would they need to pay licensing fees if they simply created a file converter like they did with Windows Media?

futuretheory

2004-12-02, 18:53

Would Apple need to pay licensing fees to use Ogg Vorbis in iTunes and iPods? If so, would they need to pay licensing fees if they simply created a file converter like they did with Windows Media?

No, Ogg is open source and there would be no licensing fee. Conversion is not a great answer, since you are re-encoding audio that has already been compressed.

With the right plugin iTunes/quicktime can play ogg now. The issue is that itunes can't handle ogg streams (apparently lack of standards adherence by streamers is partially to blame, but I can't get any to work). The ipod can't play ogg files at all, some believe 1st gen didn't have the power and by 2nd generation they and AAC were so popular it didn't matter, but who knows?

Simply put, Apple has little to gain by supporting other formats right now other than a lot of street credit. But putting iTunes on Linux and supporting Ogg would sure give that community a boost and more of the right people might start taking Apple seriously in other areas. I doubt they would do it until it was a more popular format, which doesn't seem to happening. Really I just think it would be a nice middle finger to WMA and any other player that uses Ogg as market differentiator.

Jim S.

2004-12-03, 05:44

Hmmm... then adding Ogg Vorbis would be a good marketing response to Sony adding MP3 compatability. Apple should stay one step in front of the pack.

Jim S.

2004-12-09, 17:45

According to MacRumors (page 2), the next version of iTunes will add support for .ogg, heAAC and FLAC audio. Would someone be so kind as to explain what heACC and FLAC audio is? Thanks.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041209142551.shtml

Barto

2004-12-09, 19:58

FLAC is a free, lossless format. Basically the open source equivalent to Apple Lossless Encoding.

heAAC is an advanced AAC profile. It takes more "effort" (code and computational power) to encode and decode, but is of higher quality. Apparently.

hmurchison

2004-12-10, 22:06

I don't expect to see Apple directly supporting Ogg V or FLAC. It's rather redundant, I believe their efforts should be placed around making AAC and ALAC the best codecs and offer a good plugin API(if one already doesn't exist) to support other codecs.

I think most consumers just want to listen to music without politicizing their lives.

Barto

2004-12-10, 22:59

"Consumers" want that? Then support playing Ogg and FLAC. Not supporting something is the only politicisation possible. There's no harm in doing so... Apple doesn't even need to include an encoder, a decent decoder would be better than nothing.

defaultmike

2004-12-10, 23:34

here's the function I want:
it'd be a "go to this song next whenever the current song is done" function
like, say u don't want to jump to another playlist after the current song is done. simple, tag it and u don't have to worry about it any longer. Call it being lazy, but I think it'd be really helpful, especially for iPods

johnq

2004-12-10, 23:45

Add an item to the contextual menu:

"Play This Song Next" (or even Album/Artist)

...from any Playlist, Party Shuffle or the Library.

Jim S.

2004-12-11, 07:49

I've been pondering all the good ideas in this thread...

Apple includes free software with new Macs (iLife) and gives away iTunes to everyone. One of their subtle objectives is to get you to move up to their intermediate or pro software. In the case of iTunes, they want you to buy iPods and music from the iTMS.

What if they continued to make a free version of iTunes but introduced a new $49 deluxe version (iTunes Pro?). This version would have many of the advanced codecs and (gulp!) would be compatible with Windows Media. In theory, use of this version of iTunes would enable software in the iPod to play Windows Media as well.

A primary reason for this strategy would be to provide a path for people who bought the wrong music player and the wrong music. It must be hard for people who have several hundred dollars sunk into Windows Media to make the switch. Apple wins new customers and rakes in some cash.

Am I crazy?

Barto

2004-12-11, 08:06

Yes. Yes you are.

I don't think it's a crazy idea, but I don't think it would work. Post iTunes, WMP and WinAmp, not many people are still willing to fork over money for music players. Like web browsers post-IE.

Jim S.

2004-12-11, 08:46

Yes Barto, I feel your pain... but the reason people would fork over the money is because they have already spent a bunch of money on incompatible music and this is a way to make their investment compatible.

But another major opportunity is to build new functionality into the software so people would want it for other reasons as well. For example, perhaps it would provide advanced DJ capabilities. Also, more flexible and advanced encoding and decoding options. Perhaps more/flexible interface options.

If it adds value, people would buy it. Maybe. :confused: :)

Jim S.

2004-12-11, 09:09

On second thought, what if this was modelled after Quicktime versus Quicktime Pro where you could buy a key and enter it in a registration field to gain new functionality. The rumor below says the new Quicktime Pro will be reduced to $19.99 so what if some of these codecs (including Windows Media) were available for a $20 toll? That sounds more feasible. ;)

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041209142551.shtml

thehax0r

2004-12-13, 21:41

u fecking newbs u h4v3 no 1d3a th1s is all und03n b3cau4e s73v3 j0bz 1s no2t [g0nna4 sh0 u5 cau3 h3 1s t3h l4m3

Luca

2004-12-13, 22:20

Hey um... hax0r, would you mind not ALWAYS posting in hax0r/l33t speak?

HOM

2004-12-14, 22:44

Here's a brain-dead simple idea...

Why doesn't the browse area filter out based on the search field?

:confused:

Jim S.

2004-12-15, 05:42

HOM, could you elaborate? The song list does filter on what you enter in the search field.

Luca

2004-12-15, 06:02

Jim, have you tried using Browse mode? The button in the upper right corner of the iTunes window, labeled Browse, will drop down a few fields that let you browse your songs. Choose the genre in the first column, and all the artists that appear in that genre will show up in the second column. Choose the artist, and each of their albums will appear in the third column. It progressively narrows down your choices.

HOM is saying that if you type something into the search field while you have certain browsing criteria selected, it automatically unsets any selected criteria and searches the entire song list. So let's say you have your browsing criteria set to show the Beatles. You want to play "Penny Lane" so you start typing in the search field. As you type, it unsets the browse criteria, finding ALL songs in your entire music library containing the word "Penny." This can be fixed by putting all your Beatles songs into a playlist and then doing a search of the playlist, but I don't see why they have to mess with the browsing behavior like that.

Bubbles

2004-12-15, 17:20

Jim S.

2004-12-15, 19:19

BuonRotto

2004-12-15, 21:29

Bubbles, make sure that when you go to the Party Shuffle source, the checkbox at the bottom of the list labeled, "Play higher rated songs more often" is left unchecked.

Bubbles

2004-12-16, 06:11

yeah it is unchecked, and I haven't rated my songs actually :\

Jim S.

2004-12-18, 08:42

If the rumored Apple-Sirius iPod is true, wouldn't it make sense that iTunes would be enabled to stream Sirius from the internet? Seems like you would need to enter subscription information in preferences similar to .Mac.

Perhaps the iPod wouldn't really need a built-in receiver... maybe it would just be podcast material downloaded to the hard drive. That would allow all existing iPods to take advantage of Sirius.

http://www.ipodder.org/whatIsPodcasting

What do you think?

Paul

2004-12-18, 17:15

Sirius/XM support in iTunes would be absolutely amazing...

Unbeliever

2004-12-21, 17:17

what i REALLY want is an improved songs management for my iPod.
and by song management i mean to check if a song is allready on my iPod and NOT copy if it`s on the iPod. I need this in manual sync mode.

i have around 20gigs of tunes and my 15gigger can`t hold it all, so i`m using the manual sync.

the thing that ticks me off is that you can drag a SAME album as much time as you want on the iPod and it will copy the files on the iPod even thought they`re allready there. And if i put an album on my iPod, and then add a playlist that has some of the songs from the same album on the iPod, those songs gets doubled, or tripple, quadrupled, and so on, if i have the same songs in other playlists.

So when browse to an album i get this:

Song1
Song1
Song1
Song2
Song3
Song4
Song4

and so on. And the "Find doubles" in iTunes 4.7 doesn`t work on the iPod >.<

Also an option to auto search for songs if they have been moved to another location, or at least remove all songs with "!" would be a God given.

Sorry for a lil rant, just spent 20 mins cleaning my iPod from doubles :grumble:

Messiahtosh

2004-12-23, 10:55

Seen this?

iTunes Producer patent application reveals interface
December 23 - 11:27 EST** Apple has filed for a patent covering its iTunes Producer application, which is used by record companies and artists to encode and send music to the iTunes Music Store. "The patent includes screenshots of the application, which Apple only distributes to authorized musicians and record labels," reports Waxy.org. "One screenshot includes some interesting fields, such as Parental Advisory warnings, BPM, and various sales and copyright information. There's a button for adding Lyrics, which may indicate future support for lyric searching in iTunes Music Store.

TednDi

2004-12-23, 13:21

Yup,

Here is the screenshot.

Note: I don't have an NDA, Don't work for apple in any way, this is a public record therefore... Don't bother to name me in any suit or I will counter for harassment and seek damages.

Damn iPoenas,

Now here is the link of the image,

http://waxy.org/random/images/weblog/itunes_patent/itunes_patent_figure6.gif

rasmits

2004-12-23, 17:34

Music video searching! I said that already I think, but today I was trying to find one but I couldn't. I knew it WAS there, but now it's lost somewhere... Oh well. I need something to replace Yahoo Launch, which I used a lot until we got rid of our last windows computer.

Rubin421

2004-12-29, 02:36

There's a feature in Musicmatch Jukebox, which I would looooooove to see in iTunes: the ability to "guess" the MP3 tags from the filename.
For example, if you have the file "David Bowie - Reality - 01 - New Killer Star.mp3", iTunes would automatically write the tags: "Artist=David Bowie", "Album=Reality", "Track=1", "Title=New Killer Star"...
That would be awsome!

avicdar

2004-12-29, 04:29

A new feature that I think could be useful would be the ability to seamlessly swap batches of songs to an iPod.

Scenario: I have a 20gb iPod, and I would like to remove all of its songs, and replace them with a completely different set of 20gb worth of songs from my library. Connect the iPod, push magic button, and it happens.

Most people probably dont have a need for this function, due to not having massively huge libraries. But this function would be very useful if you have a mini, or if Apple does indeed create a lower capacity flash based player.

Of course the feature would need to have some way to influence what is transferred - maybe you can build playlists that will always be there, and flush everything else.

Maybe call the feature something like easyswap.

irchs

2005-04-30, 02:55

Kickaha

2005-04-30, 03:33

atomicbartbeans

2005-04-30, 08:20

Yes, shuffle is weighted, probably because Apple subliminally wants us to use *their* format and *their* music service. I suggest popping in a CD-RW, set burning CD's to "MP3 CD" in preferences, and burning that with all your AAC/iTMS downloads (each burn holds 150 or so). Do this by making a smart playlist of AAC files. After you burned it, delete them from your library and re-import them from your CD (you can erase the CD afterwards). iTunes has a good MP3 encoder, so you won't notice any quality difference. Then, all of your collection will be in mp3 format, including your iTMS downloads.

Kickaha

2005-04-30, 12:59

The only thing that I can think of that I'd like to see is that the party shuffle actually shuffles through all the songs you have. Mine seems to shuffle through the same songs over and over again, even though I have thousands for it to choose from. :\

Did you set it to select from all, or some subset? Check at the bottom of the screen that Source is set to Library and not a playlist, and ensure that 'Play higher rated songs more often' is unchecked.

atomicbartbeans, I don't suppose you have any confirming evidence of your assertion? It certainly isn't the case for my library that I can tell.

atomicbartbeans

2005-04-30, 13:02

What I just told you how to do is convert all of your AAC downloads to mp3 format, so shuffled play works properly. Nothing too fancy?

Kickaha

2005-04-30, 13:31

Unbeliever

2005-04-30, 18:26

So you want manual sync to be more automatic?

:err:

no i just want iTunes to check in iPod's database if a song i'm trying to add is allready there.

I have 25gigs of music and a 15gig iPod so automatic update is out of the question. It's annoying as hell to add 2 playlists and if there`s a song in both of those newly added playlists, iTunes will add it TWICE on the iPod :err:

If i make 2 playlists in my iTunes and add "Norah Jones - Sunrise" in both of them, after i add the playlists to my iPod and go Music>Artist>Norah Jones>Feels Like Home, song "Sunrise" will appear TWICE in the list. I can add that song to million playlists and when i add the playlists to iPod, it will list them a million times.

chucker

2005-05-01, 00:19

Please give us some official Ogg support, with streaming, and hopefully iPod support too. Rumor has it that the new newer processors going into the iPod have the power to decode Ogg as a reasonable rate, so this feature wouldn't go unappreciated.

And for informative purposes, Ogg is much better at lower bitrates than any other codec, particularly the newer versions.

Ogg Vorbis is only marginally better than AAC, is hardly adopted in the industry at all, thus uninteresting, and takes up much more CPU power, thus draining the battery and being non-realtime on older-generation iPods.

HHogan

2005-05-01, 00:49

I know you can do it manually but I'd like to see a back-up or sync service offered for .Mac users where every song you buy is either cataloged or stored in your account. That way if your HD drives and you haven't had a chance to back up your purchased music you can either download it again from your storage space, or from iTunes again without being charged.

Messiahtosh

2005-05-01, 01:58

webavatar

2005-05-01, 14:15

All of these threads deal with minor updates or subscription services or something at least 100 other people have thought of before.. so I ask all of you..

What about something NEW For iTunes 5

Something revolutionary that is different from every other service.. that offers something nobody else does. Forget subscriptions because Apple won't do that unless its affecting their market share.

Think about something like this:

Millions of people still use p2p right? Even some of those who use iTunes still illegally swap songs sometimes and many dont even buy anything legally.. this is still a huge problem for the music industry. Why? I think its more that people like to swap music and check out other people's favorite songs than it is that they refuse to shell out 1 dollar a song..

So what if there was iSwap? All your songs that you purchsed from iTunes are available to other users.. BUT.. its a trade-off situation.. use the DRM.. let users swap songs 1:1
Not make a copy.. literally swap.. that way you aren't losing revenue persay.. and your appealing to that wide audience of people who like to check out everyone else's music.

Or they could share songs with a protected DRM that lets the recipient get a copy (like existing p2p) but the DRM only works for a week.. then if you like it you buy it..

This could even work in conjunction with a future subscription service.. you could pay per month for the service and it would include a modest fee to swap the songs (covers Apple's bottom line with the record companies)

Even if not combined make it a seperate fee.. 2 bucks a month.. anything.. 2 or 3 cents a song.. then you have something revolutionary that will attract p2p users.. prevent piracy.. help attract more users/iPod buyers.. offer NEW features for existing customers.. and doesn't hurt Apple's bottom line.. and also makes them even more popular with record labels than they already are.

Innovate.

Share your thoughts below.

Wrao

2005-05-01, 14:18

A yellow icon would be pretty innovative.

Rich

2005-05-01, 14:24

eww not yellow :no: just keep green or a new shade of blue

Wrao

2005-05-01, 14:25

I've been using a yellow icon for over a year. Looks great :)

Brad

2005-05-01, 15:59

Threads merged.

Moogs

2005-05-01, 18:00

Hogan has the right idea. Apple needs to give users more piece of mind that if they accidentally lose their purchased files (or they become corrupted or whatever), that they can quickly have a means to access them without any run-around or red tape. And it would be a great way to sell more .Mac accounts for Apple.

HOM

2005-05-01, 18:18

I meant your assertion that shuffle is weighted towards iTMS AAC files. Do you have any data to back that up? I'm not seeing it on my system, and the number of people who have been confused by the concept of 'random' with respect to shuffle has been large. ("OMG! It played two Justin songs back to back! That is like sooooo not random!")
I've noticed this for a while.

As I mentioned back on page 1 or 2 of this thread iTunes, my 4G iPod, and my iPod Shuffle all seem to favor iTMS and AAC files over MP3 files. I'm not sure how I would go about testing it in a more scientific way, but if someone has the way, I have the will. What bugs me about this is that Apple has repeatedly refused to explain how the shuffle is calculated. I distinctly remember in the Newsweek premature specification leak of the 4G iPod, Mr Ng refused to elaborate on the shuffle feature.

Ok, now for HOM's Official I've Been Bitching About These Since iTunes 2 Feature Request List�:

A randomizer that actually fucking works.

An iPod firmware update that
fucking respects the iTune's playlist shuffle setting. I cannot for the life of me figure out why this hasn't been a part of the iPod since it came out. For all the talk of 'integration' between iPod and iTunes, it doesn't really do much at all.

An indicator of status of the iPod charge. A little batter icon like the menu bar would do just fine.

To be able to tag a song to multiple albums and have it show up properly in both iTunes and the iPod. I must have 10 copies of Mrs. Robinson. But I have no way to tag it to each album so it's either one copy in only one place or 10 copies.

If someone has an ADC account and can log bugs, I've got $5 via PayPal to the person that logs these and can send me proof that they have been logged.

Doxxic

2005-05-03, 05:32

1: iTunes Mobile might not be iTunes 5.0 but it must be what they've been working on the past year...

2: The scientific way to find out if iTunes' shuffle function is biased, is to take a large sample and see how much the presence of features like AAC, mp3 etc in your shuffle playlist differs from the proportions in which they exist in your total library. There are mathematical methods to calculate the chance that this difference in proportion is more than mere coincidence (which I can't reproduce right now). If if the chance that it's only coincidence is less than 5%, statisticians tend to see that as a proof that the Shuffle function is biased.

dviant

2005-05-03, 11:04

The only thing I want as a new iTunes feature is A WAY TO SELECT SONGS NO LONGER IN MY LIBRARY. I mean really, why put the little ! icon there if I can't sort by that column? I'm probably just dumb for deleting things in the finder and not via iTunes but hey old habits die hard.

bwhaler

2005-05-11, 05:41

I've noticed this for a while.

As I mentioned back on page 1 or 2 of this thread iTunes, my 4G iPod, and my iPod Shuffle all seem to favor iTMS and AAC files over MP3 files. I'm not sure how I would go about testing it in a more scientific way, but if someone has the way, I have the will. What bugs me about this is that Apple has repeatedly refused to explain how the shuffle is calculated. I distinctly remember in the Newsweek premature specification leak of the 4G iPod, Mr Ng refused to elaborate on the shuffle feature.

Ok, now for HOM's Official I've Been Bitching About These Since iTunes 2 Feature Request List�:

A randomizer that actually fucking works.

An iPod firmware update that
fucking respects the iTune's playlist shuffle setting. I cannot for the life of me figure out why this hasn't been a part of the iPod since it came out. For all the talk of 'integration' between iPod and iTunes, it doesn't really do much at all.

An indicator of status of the iPod charge. A little batter icon like the menu bar would do just fine.

To be able to tag a song to multiple albums and have it show up properly in both iTunes and the iPod. I must have 10 copies of Mrs. Robinson. But I have no way to tag it to each album so it's either one copy in only one place or 10 copies.

If someone has an ADC account and can log bugs, I've got $5 via PayPal to the person that logs these and can send me proof that they have been logged.
I logged them for you (without the profanity.)

No need to send me the 5 bucks. We're all Apple family here...