View Full Version : Cease and Desist Letter Received
Monish mailed me a copy of the C&D since action hadn't been taken. We just got notified by the colo facility's abuse dept. that they received the letter. AppleInsider.org/net will not be terminated today or in the forseeable future. I'm removing the attachment as well since I didn't mean to post publicly.
thegelding
2004-05-25, 15:32
why would they send a copy to the actor andy garcia??
and why wouldn't the letter come from a lawyer or from a legal office??
g
Your full name is Jack Frost? neat.
curiousuburb
2004-05-25, 15:44
IANAL, and perhaps not identical (not a commercial entity), but there may be precedent on 'similar names'
www.whitehouse.gov - the official site of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
www.whitehouse.net - Parody
www.whitehouse.org - Parody
www.whitehouse.com - Porn site (not work safe)
seems to me if the Prez can't get these parodies pulled, AI.com faces a similarly Sisyphean task
IANAL, and perhaps not identical (not a commercial entity), but there may be precedent on 'similar names'
www.whitehouse.gov - the official site of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
www.whitehouse.net - Parody
www.whitehouse.org - Parody
www.whitehouse.com - Porn site (not work safe)
seems to me if the Prez can't get these parodies pulled, AI.com faces a similarly Sisyphean task
Not quite. Parody sites are always exempt from normal copyright / trademark cases. I'm not sure about the porn site (interestingly, according to WHOIS, it's existed since 1997 now, so maybe whitehouse.gov actually went public *after* that?), however.
AppleInsider, though, may very well be a trademark of MacNN. As AppleInsider.org has the very same concept and context, this could be seen as a conflict. Not sure about U.S. law, but I wouldn't be surprised if they could force this site to be renamed*.
*) And I don't see how that is any major problem, besides the fact that the domain name has been paid for already. If this community is any good, it should be easy enough to come up and settle with a new brand, right? :)
SonOfSylvanus
2004-05-25, 15:59
:rolleyes:
Is is just me (I'm not a lawyer) but does that nave nothing to do with Appleinsider. They specifically say this applies to the name of a person. For example, if I register the worlds best site on the web: www.ebby.com, I can sue someone who sets up www.ebbysucks.com and take down/own that sight.
But I don't want to throw more gasoline on the fire here. :rolleyes:
EDIT: oh yea. If they registered the name, we may have problems. Hate to say it, but www.appleinsideher.com would most definatly be a Parody and would survive. :D
Duh, maybe I should read the cease&desist letter first. So it's a service mark, eh.
Strangely enough, though, this quote:
has been conducting business and reporting news using the servicemark since 1999
directly interfers with what the AppleInsider.com site says at its bottom:
AppleInsider © 1997-2004
'97 or '99?
AppleInsider's service mark has been in full effect in the industry for over 5 years
Uh-huh.
Furthermore, JF is intentionally trading on the goodwill of AppleInsider by using a trademark that is confusingly similar to AppleInsider.
Is it a trademark, or a service mark?
Not sure about US legislation, again, but it seems they don't quite know either.
JFÕs activities are unlawful and constitute unfair competition, intentional trademark infringement, trademark dilution, false designation of origin and cybersquatting.
Unfair competition: Besides the use of the service mark, I see nothing unfair here. AI.org does not seem to use any AI.com-provided money or other resources. By this logic, any sort of parody site or -product is "unfair competition", isn't it?
Trademark infringement: Like I said, this could very well be an issue.
Trademark dilution: Oh yeah, I'm terribly confused. Not. Not only does AI.org make it quite clear on its home page that it derives from AI.com; it also mentions reasons, and even has a poll up right now asking if members want to stay with either site, or are unsure. No dilution, guys.
False designation of origin: See above. I cannot find *any* lies on this matter at all. The opposite is the case if you consider that the AppleInsider.com forums have reportedly been censored heavily, despite claiming to be community-oriented.
Cybersquatting: This isn't cybersquatting. Doesn't even need explaining.
thuh Freak
2004-05-25, 16:20
why would they send a copy to the actor andy garcia?? i was wondering the same thing. maybe its just some boob over at macnn or in the depths of ai who happens to share a name with a famous t.v. commercial actor. i'm kind of surprised that kasper, is, uh, kasper's real name. i had assumed it was an assumed name, since he was dishing out the details from apple's inside, er.
keep the joozy details comin, jack, in whatever capacity you can. i'm very interested to see how this all plays out.
anyone else have a strong urge to sign mr. bhatia up for all kinds of irl spam lists? i aint gonna, but i ahve this strong evil feeling.
They want your profits! Be afraid!
Not only Jack Frost, but Jack Frost the fourth.
anyone else have a strong urge to sign mr. bhatia up for all kinds of irl spam lists? i aint gonna, but i ahve this strong evil feeling.
Signing unsuspecting lawyers up for spam doesn't really help anyone; please continue being civil. :)
and why wouldn't the letter come from a lawyer or from a legal office??
Because it wouldn't be worth it?
Ok, I didn't even mean to post this in a public forum, much less suggestions. But since I did, I'm going to put it in the proper forum :mad:
For the life of me I couldn't find either a registered SM or TM at The TPO. :rolleyes:
Mr. Ass? Meet Mr. Smoke.
pscates2.0
2004-05-25, 17:59
Honestly, now more than ever, why not just pick a new - AND COOLER - name? Just let the original site have it, avoid giving a bunch of lawyers further reason to exist ( ;) ) and truly give this place a "new start, clean slate" feel.
Why this attachment to such a, frankly, pedestrian name, when so many cooler ones could be implemented? Is it really yours to take, anyway?
If I had a site, had an established name and people branched off and used the same name...well, I'd be a tad irked regardless of any less-than-cool behavior I might have engaged in to piss off the splinter group.
No loss of business/revenue from any name-changing issues, and, symbolically it makes the clearest of statements. But now there are gonna be lawyers, letters, "is not, is too" involved? Sigh...
:(
I just think two AppleInsiders, however tagged/designed/staffed/populated is just asking for hassles on many levels (legal, visitor confusion, keeps the flames fanned over "the incident", good, talented and dedicated people have to dick away their time fidgeting with legal stuff that has nothing to do with running and maintaining a cool message forum, etc.).
:confused:
But, again, who am I? Just a guy, with an opinion...no biggie.
:p
pscates2.0
2004-05-25, 18:00
Ok, I didn't even mean to post this in a public forum, much less suggestions. But since I did, I'm going to put it in the proper forum :mad:
Ha...nice going. :p
Oh well, you'll get lots of input, I'm sure (look up).
Show us a better name then. This all happened so quickly that we never got to the point were we had officially decided on a name. This is what we have, so until I see something better with a decent domain name with it, I'm not going to change it if I don't have to. And right now I don't have to.
onlooker.org
2004-05-25, 18:07
Hi all!
I have no position on the situation, as I was unaware there was one, but I'm seriously glad there is a AI hideout away from the PC trolls.
You could call it the AI Hideout if you have to in the future. ;)
pscates2.0
2004-05-25, 18:09
Well, hell...I don't have any. Don't put ME on the fucking spot...I never claimed to be the "name" guy (beyond initial idea, which I think has its merits).
I'm just saying...
Sounds like it would just be better off, regardless of any "have to's" about it. Do YOU - and others at your level, of an already bitchin' site - want to deal with letters and lawyers the remainder of 2004, dragging out an already lame, frustrating experience?
:confused:
I wouldn't think so, but some people do indeed thrive on pressure and conflict and so forth, so I can certainly honor that if that's the case.
Best of luck, either way. Just think an unnecessarily complex path is being laid down, that's all...
:o
eh, it's not really a pain for me. I woke up with an email this morning saying the abuse department received a cease and desist letter. An hour later they said it wasn't a problem and closed the complaint.
The cease and desist letter was forwarded to our attorneys who read it and said just to ignore it. Monish isn't going to take me to court, because there is no money to receive from me if they won since I'm not making a profit on anything. It would be a waster of his time, really.
I think a new name is a wonderful idea, but again, nobody is ponying up anything good :) Not to say that we haven't thought about it either, but there just isn't anything acceptable floating around :)
Now, if Monish and "Kasper" [Jeff] want to waste their time continuing to harass myself and Brad, then that's their prerogative. They're honestly not wasting a lot of my time. I just forward the stuff to my lawyers.
Remember, a cease and desist letter such as this is the product of a heavily litigious society. The letter is designed to scare and intimidate. It manages to sound serious without making any sort of extravagant claims of any sort. Most people would probably buckle at the thought of having to go to court. On the other hand, if you know who you're dealing with, you know it isn't going to go to court. They don't just want the name "appleinsider" changed, they want the domains as well, they've attempted to charge Brad with corporate espionage and fraud (Which is harassment), and so forth.
It's quite ridiculous the lengths at which they're going, and now they are hoping a letter written by Monish, seasoned lawyer that he is, wants me to fold because he wrote a two page letter that sounded serious. The hosting provider already dismissed the letter, I've dismissed the letter, and he won't be taking this to court.
So in the meantime, nobody here should worry about the legal issues or the letters. Don't think we are on any sort of deadline to change the name, etceteras. If someone comes up with a better name and the community likes it, we'll probably use it. Until then, eh, whatever.
sosume.org
I kind of like that, a lot actually. :D
sosume.com/org/net/others are taken. Might want to check that in the future guys :)
i wasn't serious, i was making a joke, i kind of assumed it would be registered by apple (i was wrong)
sosumeasshole.com seems available.
I was just saying liked it, and I still do. :p
I think a new name is a wonderful idea, but again, nobody is ponying up anything good Not to say that we haven't thought about it either, but there just isn't anything acceptable floating around
... maybe look in here? -> :) (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=204) (they may not be great - but at least it is a place to collect suggestions for a domain name, should you choose to go this way)
I do agree with pscates, though. There's nothing wrong with the thinking of "new site, fresh start" ... let go of the original name (just a lot of wasted effort on everyone's part). But then, that's also just one opinion.
Of course you could go for: www.wehavealegalrighttothenameappleinsider.com :rolleyes: :D
pscates2.0
2004-05-25, 20:06
That's cool, LoCash.
I didn't realize it was all so much pinstriped, double-breasted saber-rattling. I won't think anything further of it.
:cool:
I'm not familiar enough with the law - and those that practice it - to know what's to be ignored or what's to be concerned about.
I'd vote for a new name, regardless of the legal situation. My first preference, however, would still be for a 'tribal fusion' of the community under one roof - preferably an 'appleinsider' under the direction of its members and the leadership of the volunteers who devote their time to it.
alcimedes
2004-05-25, 21:04
usually the stronger your case, the less you have to say.
'nuff said.
pscates2.0
2004-05-25, 22:34
To the AppleInside law and letter?
why would they send a copy to the actor andy garcia??
and why wouldn't the letter come from a lawyer or from a legal office??
g
This actually made me giggle like a school girl when i read it.
Incidently i am Andy Garcia, I am Jack's Sys Admin and long term hetero sexual life mate
thegelding
2004-05-28, 07:28
This actually made me giggle like a school girl when i read it.
Incidently i am Andy Garcia, I am Jack's Sys Admin and long term hetero sexual life mate
congrats and how 21st century of you two ;)...
why does "giggle like a school girl" and "long term heterosexual" seem to be at odds with one and other??
always happy to make somebody giggle though
g
congrats and how 21st century of you two ;)...
why does "giggle like a school girl" and "long term heterosexual" seem to be at odds with one and other??
always happy to make somebody giggle though
g
Ill let you ask jack about that one :)
Look, I was drunk... or high.... or tripping... or something. In any case, I may have inadvertently attempted to operate a lever near darwin's groin. Look, it was probably nothing. I swear it was a dream, really...
haha SSM.
remember those icons?
god that guy was hideous.
reminds me of aphex twin :)
now... badmoon icons on the otherhand.
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