View Full Version : Disappointed
Fellowship
2004-05-28, 18:30
I am not one to burn bridges as it is just not my way or my style. That said however I have to weigh in with my sorrow of what has happened over the last bit of time concerning the forums.
There was no need to split the AI community as far as I am concerned. So what if there were a few banner ads that were off. So what?
I had not visited Anders TRC for some time and it is troubling to say the least that Brad would post such a thread as to go against AI.com and suggest the venture of a new forum. Talk about spam and from an Admin????
Brad and Jack I have nothing against you both. I pride myself for being fair and a person who listens. I must say however that what you two have done is shameful. It is shameful that you "copy" the name of the forum first off. But as bad as that is you have done something worse... You have divided our community. I think this is offensive to everyone who has enjoyed Appleinsider.com for years. This stinks of a power play by a few power hungry geeks..
God I hate to say that but please correct me if I am wrong Brad and Jack..
Is it human nature to want ownership over something you spend great amounts of time on? Sure you bet that is human nature and understandable. Is it right to divide a well established community to satisfy this itch for more control and power? That is for you to figure out.
I can say from my vantage point it is sad just sad.
This would have never happened if Brad had not posted the thread in Anders TRC.
I don't want to hear any crying from Brad when he should have known full well that his actions by posting that thread could lead to nothing less than what has happened.
And all this Kasper this Kasper that....
You guys really need to learn a lesson.
Kasper is not the devil.
Appleinsider.com has been a home to a large community for a long time.
For you to do what you have done is an insult to many of us who would just assume we all be under one roof.
I hope you all like the "look" of this place and the fact it has no banner ads.
I don't get a lot out of it. Sure it looks great.
You know what? To me it is much greater to have a unified community under one roof.
Thanks for the damage and stress you have caused,
a disappointed Fellowship
*yawn*
With all due respect Fellows, this is getting old. We've been through this little argument so many times before.
1) Kasper is the one that split the community, not me. He split the community when he banned people and forced them to find a new home.
2) Our problem wasn't with banner ads, it was with Kasper. Kasper is exemplifying every problem we have ever had with him right now. He is banning people for mentioning "appleinsider.org", turned into a total control freak over the boards, is bringing on new mods against the wishes of all of the current mods, etceteras.
I think we have a couple of other threads in this forum discussing this very problem, so how about you go post in one of those like you already have been? It's silly to start a new thread rehashing the same things you've been saying since the beginning.
Brad and myself were only proposing the idea of creating a new site. We were building a proof of concept to present to, among others, yourself. We were not in any way, shape, or form ready to do what we did. Your saviour over there Kasper, he banned a few people, started going all Joseph Stalin on the boards and his membership, and forced a lot of people to want to move to a better community where they weren't being censored, and banned and where they felt they had a voice.
And you want to talk about disappointment? Brad had already asked Kasper and Monish to remove all of the copyrighted images he created for appleinsider.com, as well as all of his own personal work he put into the templates and design for that site. Your saviour Kasper has failed to comply, and it has almost been a week.
AppleInsider is a generic name, not a trademark. An "Apple Insider" is someone that is providing inside information at Apple. But the images that Kasper is using at appleinsider.com, those are copyrighted material. He has been notified and has failed to remove the offensive material. He is also profiting off of Brad's copyrighted material because appleinsider.com makes money off of its website.
How dare you come start accusing me of all of this. Kasper forced a split of the community, Kasper is infringing on copyrighted material, Kasper is the one that decided not to talk to myself or Brad about what we were doing. We weren't ready to, nor did we want to, make a split. Don't you dare blame this on me.
Quagmire
2004-05-28, 19:25
I would also like to point out, since this site was set up in a big rush, Locash didn't have enough time to think up a good name for this website. I think when this whole stuff calms down, he will change the name of this website. Kasper is violating our rights to freedom of speech. If we can't talk about what is going on over at .com, people will start to distrust Kasper and leave. Locash has set up a safe haven for those people who realized that he was being a stalin and came over to .org. I do think Brad's actions by hacking into Kasper's account was over the deepend but, Kasper banning people for saying what is happening over here and where did brad go? That is even worse, so that eliminates the Brad thing. Over all I am even more of a disappointed Undertaker by what Kasper is doing over at .com. If the rumors are true about Kasper banning people about mentioning .org, I am surprised that I am not banned yet for mentioning .org.
Yeah, it wasn't like Brad or Jack set this whole thing off. It was brewing for a while, and yes, they were unhappy with Kasper's management of the place, but they seemed to be just fine with staying at AppleInsider.com indefinitely. Brad definitely made a mistake when posting as Kasper, but Kasper threw the first stone when he decided to make a preemptive move against the folks in the TRC. There was NO NEED to ban Jack and Brad. If Kasper was as reasonable a person as you, Fellowship, he would have talked it over and worked things out without causing all the crap that has happened. Instead he decided that there was no way to talk it over and immediately started waging war on the "dissidents." Sounds like a certain someone in a great position of power right now who you don't like, hmm?
Look, Fellowship, I understand why you might feel disappointed, but why would anyone want to do what Brad and Jack have done for their own good? Whoop de doo, they now are the owners of a very small forum with about 200 members. Not worth the legal flak they have taken, I don't think. You know that Jack and Brad are good people, and they wouldn't divide the community and grab for this so-called "power." They did what they thought was in the best interest of the community, or at least the regulars. Meanwhile, Kasper is trying to do what is best for him and him alone. You and I both know that he's not trying to squash .org just because he's a righteous guy who wants to keep the community together.
Maybe Brad and Jack made a few bad decisions. But they're pretty small when you compare them to what Kasper is doing now. Cease and desist letters? Police raids? Why the FUCK is Kasper so obsessed with nailing Brad? Does he actually have something to gain by going through all this shit, or is he just obsessed with bringing us down no matter what? I really don't understand why he's doing this.
good ol' fellowship, still playing both sides of the fences.
he has nothing against brad and locash except that they are power hungry geeks.
he's a bad guy, then a good guy, it's like he's hulk hogan or something. and the way everyone started kissing his ass when he finally stopped his constant name-calling made me want to vomit.
a leopard doesn't change it's spots, especially self-righteous ones.
I don't feel the same way about this that you do Fellowship.
Yet I AM disappointed that people seem incapable of tolerance and civility in this thread! :mad:
I left .com because I didn't like the actions taken by the current management there: they divided the community by reacting to the TRC thread. Yes, this wouldn't have happened if the TRC thread hadn't existed BUT it also wouldn't have happened if the current .com management didn't throw themselves into an orgy of locking, banning and deleting. To say to Brad and Jack "You have divided our community." is I believe false.
That said, what is so repulsive about a view that differs from most people here? What is so repulsive about hearing that "Kasper is not the devil" - he isn't, only a few "crusaders" ever acted like he was. There is no need to behave like children here, although I guess it is a microcosm of the situation at large.
Barto
InactionMan
2004-05-28, 23:12
I'm trying to figure out a reasonable way to reply to your post FCiB, but it's hard.
First, clearly this is something you want to talk about. Why not start a thread at AI.com? I think there are quite a few people over there that would seriously appreciate it. I think all members have a right to know what happened, and as Costique has proven, not everyone does. He is a fairly active member of the .com 'community' and yet only found .org this week. I think a rational discussion of the split at .com could go a long way in clarifying and possibly resolving the current situation.
Second, your sig.
I don't pick sides, I choose understanding
Seriously, given the content of your post this is borderline offensive.
Third, Brad, LoCash and Alcimedes had concerns about the future of the site and presented their concerns to the community to get their feedback. They put in more time and effort into creating a new look and direction for the site and asked members of the community to help them design and code what could have potentially been the new AI.com. How is that spamming? How is that a sign of anything but their desire to improve the community?
And how is them getting banned and launching this site a power move? If a good number of the core .com members hadn't agreed with them and decided to make a go of .org with them there would just be three lonely Admins over here trying to start flamewars with each other to entertain themselves.
Ack. I used to post at both sites but everyday there are fewer reasons to even visit .com. Too Bad. Though I won't go so far as to say it's caused me 'sorrow'.
I think you need to reexamine the intentions and actions on both sides of the split. Hope you come around in a bit cheerier mood next time, FCiB.
Yet I AM disappointed that people seem incapable of tolerance and civility in this thread! :mad:
yeah well i guess he never called you an asshole. i never laid a finger on him over there, (in a public thread) i did it all by PM.
but i'll be damned if i'm going to put up with his crap here.
Fellowship
2004-05-29, 01:38
*yawn*
With all due respect Fellows, this is getting old. We've been through this little argument so many times before.
1) Kasper is the one that split the community, not me. He split the community when he banned people and forced them to find a new home.
2) Our problem wasn't with banner ads, it was with Kasper. Kasper is exemplifying every problem we have ever had with him right now. He is banning people for mentioning "appleinsider.org", turned into a total control freak over the boards, is bringing on new mods against the wishes of all of the current mods, etceteras.
To address point #1)
I thought Brad's thread in the Anders TRC was grounds for the termination of Brad? No??
You say you were "forced" to find a new home..... does not ring true
To address point #2)
"Our Problem" I am glad you took it upon yourselves to split the community. You and Brad had some issues with Kasper. Now the entire community is split. Fine, Life goes on. But I had not one issue with Kasper and I would be willing to bet most people at AI.com have no problem with Kasper.
Kasper Kasper Kasper is like Bush saying WMD WMD WMD.... say it a million times and people will just get used to it.
I will be honest I do not have one thing agaisnt you guys personally I am just saddened at the results of this project of yours.. My Reply to your point #1 above is the bulk of my unbelief in your statement regarding "finding a new home" You guys brought this "need" to find a new home upon yourselves when you post a thread as Brad did in Anders TRC.. NO???
Somebody please address this for me... :rolleyes:
I know I mentioned the word geek in my post above and I am a geek too for that matter. I did also articulate the understanding of wanting ownership of something. My point is that the itch for ownership has split the community but hey... the milk is spilled.
I think the entire thing is unfortunate.
Fellows
Fellowship
2004-05-29, 01:40
yeah well i guess he never called you an asshole. i never laid a finger on him over there, (in a public thread) i did it all by PM.
but i'll be damned if i'm going to put up with his crap here.
I have never called you an asshole.
What in the world are you saying?
Fellowship
In our thread, if you bothered to read it instead of make assumptions, we were soliciting feedback from the "regulars" on AI. We told them, "Look, here is what we could do" and asked them if they would like that. We kept revealing more information about it as we planned it and continued to receive positive feedback from the members. A few mods came and chimed in, etceteras.
We didn't want to split the community so much as we wanted to provide a better web site; a better user experience for those that love AI. We just couldn't continue working with Kasper. Don't you dare go get all political with me on this and compare it to Bush. We've outlined the problems WE had with Kasper. You never had them because you never had to deal with the kid the way we had to. We weren't even really sure how or when we would do it.
Now, if I was Kasper, and I saw that thread, I wouldn't ban people. In all honesty, I'd probably contact the admins that brought it up privately and try to solve the problem amicably. I would have attempted to do that because I would have foreseen what banning those people would do. Because I would have known that it would split the community and be harmful.
I think brad and alcimedes would both back me up when I say that our ultimate goal in what we were doing was to prove to Kasper that some things need to change, and if he would play ball with us, we could all change them for the better.
As to finding a new home, Fellows, I can't get onto appleinsider.com anymore unless I go through an anonymous proxy or from some other terminal. My IP is banned. BANNED. Kasper wasn't going to let me back in there no matter if I began publishing appleinsider.org. I was exiled from a site I nurtured. I had nowhere to go. Neither did Brad. All the members were asking me what happened. So I opened appleinsider.org, almost all of the regular members from appleinsider.com have registered and post. Many of them have been banned from appleinsider.com too. Their only way to continue to be in touch with their community is on this site.
So no, I don't think the TRC thread was ban worthy. It should have been a wake up call to Kasper, and if Kasper cared one shit about the community, he would have foreseen what his actions the day he banned myself and Brad would have done. He should have said to himself, "Wow, I'm really doing something wrong. I don't want to fuck over AI." Instead, he fucked himself, and his continued legal threats and harassment of myself and others here are his way of convincing himself that he did not.
Look, this is a circular argument between us. Instead of focusing on whether or not Kasper should have banned people, let's look at what he is doing now. He is censoring people left and right, I've heard he is even READING PEOPLE'S PRIVATE MESSAGES, and he wants to hire on ***** as a moderator despite the wishes of the other mods/admins ONLY BECAUSE ***** is the one that told Kasper about the bloody Tension Relief Clinic in the first place, and in turn, about the thread Brad and I had going. I heard you were even the ONLY mod/admin there to AGREE with Kasper on that. I mean, you guys have yourselves a real mess over there, and it's because Kasper has turned into a control freak. We just want our little site here on the Internet to live. So why don't you go back to appleinsider.com and tell Kasper to come off the damn cross, because we could find much better use for the wood.
alcimedes
2004-05-29, 03:05
That said however I have to weigh in with my sorrow of what has happened over the last bit of time concerning the forums.
http://www.alcimedes.com/smallest.jpg
heh so now kasper is on the cross? I thought brad was crucified ;)
oh and jack.. please, in the interests of keeping this as civil as possible would you edit your above mention of the mole?
just put ***s for now... and if he gets to be a mod... well then thats that...
but I don't think dropping names will help things....
just my opinion...
-Paul
To address point #1)
I thought Brad's thread in the Anders TRC was grounds for the termination of Brad? No??
No.
You say you were "forced" to find a new home..... does not ring true
To address point #2)
"Our Problem" I am glad you took it upon yourselves to split the community. You and Brad had some issues with Kasper. Now the entire community is split. Fine, Life goes on. But I had not one issue with Kasper and I would be willing to bet most people at AI.com have no problem with Kasper.
Maybe because you don't understand what was happening. You were just "saddened" by everything afterwards.
Kasper Kasper Kasper is like Bush saying WMD WMD WMD.... say it a million times and people will just get used to it.
Actually, I see it this way. Kasper = Bush, and AI.org founders and supporters = people who dislike Bush. You = people who love Bush. Those people get on our case for just being "mindless Bush bashers" even when we explain our legitimate position, just as you continue to hound us with your fake "concern" when really all you want is for us to shut up and live with things the way they are.
I will be honest I do not have one thing agaisnt you guys personally I am just saddened at the results of this project of yours..
Hah. Nothing against us? You sure seem to be pretty pissed at everyone here, as if you're so much better for just going along with whatever the jerks (and non-jerks) at AI.com tell you.
My Reply to your point #1 above is the bulk of my unbelief in your statement regarding "finding a new home" You guys brought this "need" to find a new home upon yourselves when you post a thread as Brad did in Anders TRC.. NO???
Somebody please address this for me... :rolleyes:
No, we didn't. We were merely exploring our options. Kasper could have avoided ALL this while still addressing our legitimate concerns if he had tried talking to the mods and admins first, but no, he freaked out instead. And he was the one who started it. I thought you were a proponent of diplomacy. It could have really done some good here, but I guess diplomacy is a last resort for someone like Kasper.
I know I mentioned the word geek in my post above and I am a geek too for that matter. I did also articulate the understanding of wanting ownership of something. My point is that the itch for ownership has split the community but hey... the milk is spilled.
I think the entire thing is unfortunate.
Fellows
Well boo hoo. We already explained that it's not about a power grab, but I guess you only want to talk, not listen.
http://pbskids.org/lions/words/images/cry.gif
Fellows, please take some time to read these threads, if you really want to rehash it all.
They provide a good overview of what was going on, and they're much better than the 'official' view here on .org, and that's mostly because they're long Q&A's. (Speaking of an official view, where is the one from Kasper about the situation? He promised one shortly after all this started.)
Who are we missing? (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=91)
Who the mole is? (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=46)
Comments and Questions (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=79) a very good read
What is the beef against AI.com, Kasper, et. al. ? (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=12)
Tension Relief Clinic: wtf? (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=58)
Cease and Desist Letter Received (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=277)
And if you want to talk, Fellows, you know where I am.
I have never called you an asshole.
What in the world are you saying?
Fellowship
i'd show you my p/m's about it, but it's been disabled. convenient.
i will say that you apologized and said it was the heat of the battle blah blah blah.....
and then called me a name a few weeks later.
thegelding
2004-05-29, 15:42
i agree with the suggestion that locash remove the mole's name...serves no purpose...(done, thanks admins)
as for all this...can this be the last time we talk of this, please??
the way i see it is this....(if anybody cares)
ok, fellows is an emotional guy, i am an emotional guy too
but the split is done and most likely was inevitable
i came to appleinsider long before the blackout, mostly as a lurker, to learn and grow and i slowly found a voice, my voice, there and started posting
then the blackout came and i was sad...only to find it reborn from the darkness by a few of the faithful...much work, much effort, much love went into it, and still it almost falter and almost died a few times...still it limped along and grew and strengthened...then, many years later kasper bought the site from macnn and this was watched with a worried eye by some running the forums...then the rift...
is there blame on both sides?? hell yeah...but for me it is simple...why did i come to appleinsider? why did i stay?? was it for the front page? for an owner i never messaged with or read posts from?? no
i came and stayed because a young man named starfleetX would be patient with me and answer all my newbie stupid questions, because md3jack would send links to sites of squirrels doing disco, because murbot would post pictures of STFU to me when i acted stupid...because i felt part of a community BECAUSE of the people there, not the owners, not the news breaks...i can get that anywhere...
so i am mostly here, but still some at AI.com...and i will likely stay mostly here and sometimes there...unless amorph and others i care about make that site even better...this is a challenge to .com
now it seems unlikely that .com and .org with merge, so what is left?? .com is unlikely to fold, it makes money for kasper, it has a large base, it will live on
.org is unlikely to fold because it has no need to make money so the only thing that would end it for .org is the people running it to grow bored with it...
i really like the people at .com (amorph, programmer--both so smart, midwinter, pplam, giant--my liberal pals in arms, artman for telling all about his life, powerdoc for being my medical buddy, etc etc) and i will visit them often...but the people that made AI AI are here...thus, so am i
new subject
g
Cybermonkey
2004-05-29, 15:43
Ah, Fellowship. he who presumes he is holier than thou. personally fellows the only thing i hated about .com was your smug, arrogant bible bashing threads. Your nothing special, move along get over it, Like all things good it's choice that makes a community and it's choice that we choose to post on .org.
So with that said, keep it to your self as we are here. If People wish to post either here or .com or both as I'm sure most do it's our choice to make. If .com goes belly up from lack of visitors, then it's not the fault of Brad etc it's the fault of pig headed morons who stayed solely at .com because they don't like change and can't offer a decent convo without resorting to 'Praise the lord' speeches.
My 2 cents, pennies, Euro's :mad:
thegelding
2004-05-29, 15:48
I'd like to know why the things that were said in that thread were not upheld....
this whole thing is just getting really out of hand...
done and done
g
crazychester
2004-05-29, 21:23
Hi Everybody!
(Hi Chester! Remember you're not posting.)
I know I'm not posting - this is just a figment of your overactive imaginations.
Fellows - first post, lovely; sad but lovely.
g - second last post, lovely; sad but lovely.
Jack - low, low act man.
Cybermonkey and others - try to read people's meaning and not just their words.
billybob - I thought through what your posts said in the thread about PMing at .com and I think they probably did read PMs. Either that or they simply started banning and blocking on the basis of people's support for this site. Which of course, would be stupid in your case because you're one of the more reluctant and thoughtful members here.
What does this mean? Just that the pool of dirty rotten scoundrels got a bit bigger. After the last couple of weeks, I'd think twice (no make that thrice) about using the PM system of either site for anything I wanted to remain confidential.
You know, given how fond some of you are of saying "it's just an internet forum", you sure are willing to go to a lot of trouble over it. Without meaning to be condescending to the young 'uns, this has always been nothing more than a stoush between 3 or 4 twenty-somethings. And as far as I can tell, only a very small handful of members wanted it to play out this way. Not the community at large. If anybody was in their right minds we'd all bugger off and slow the traffic at both sites to a crawl and show them who's really in charge.
But that isn't going to happen. And the split isn't going to be repaired.
I've watched as an outside observer a few internet forums implode. Usually the pressure builds up, then the board goes nuts and then the split or whatever happens. But this one's been so, well so very AI. Intrigue, skullduggery, cloaks and daggers.
Fascinating. Pointless; utterly, utterly pointless but fascinating nonetheless.
From my perspective, this is all very inconvenient. Just an internet forum would do me fine. One forum, one community. Two just seems like overkill. I'm off to the Big Smoke for a few days and I'd love to come back and find you'd all pulled your heads out of your collective arses. But that isn't going to happen either.
You're two great bunches of people. You were just bigger, better, stronger as one great bunch of people.
If there's one word to describe all this, that word would be "Hope". Hope they stop fighting, hope they show some respect for privacy, hope they stop abusing their power, hope the community wins.
Hope. Yep, that's the word.
pscates2.0
2004-05-29, 22:11
They're just two sites/forums now. No going back, considering all that's happened. I float between the two, most probably do.
I like different things about each one: .com has a more hopping FH section, but I like the General Discussion and Genius Bar forums here a bit more.
The other site has more activity and buzzing, but sometimes I dig the smaller, cozier nature of .org.
.org does indeed, IMO, look a bazillion times nicer and seems less strainful on the ol' peepers.
I would imagine only those that CAN'T post at .com (due to banification and shitlist-occupation issues) wouldn't bounce between the two.
Fellowship echoes a couple of points I've made over the past few weeks, AND since he's about the most normal, rational and easy-to-talk-to person that's ever inhabited AppleInsider, I always tend to lend and ear and usually don't associate his posts with utter horseshit like I do others.
;)
Kind the E.F. Hutton of the joint, to me. When he talks, I tend to listen.
But again, this is what it is. Two sites, two groups, two looks, two approaches. Yeah, kinda sad that it's not one big happy family. But it's not the WORST thing that's ever happened to me either.
:)
Quagmire
2004-05-29, 22:19
Hi Everybody!
(Hi Chester! Remember you're not posting.)
I know I'm not posting - this is just a figment of your overactive imaginations.
...
Hope. Yep, that's the word.
I am sure most of us understood what fellows said. We respect what he said. Locash has set up another community thinking the old was corrupt by Kasper's actions. We chose to come to this community because we thought we could just split and be left alone. Truth is we can not be left alone because people at .com are still saying," Why did Locash split the community?"( isn't this similar to the Confederacy ? They wanted to split and be left alone but, the union wouldn't allow it) People can choose this community and be respected. People could come to both communitys. People could go to .com. We would all respect their descision. The problem is Kasper won't respect our descision. Intill he does, this unneccessary war between Locash and Brad vs Kasper will continue. Kasper is threatening Brad and Locash with lawsuits against what? Having a trc? Respectfully requesting stuff to be changed? Locash and Brad should be the ones creating the lawsuits because of Kaspers's power hungry ways by depriving us our right to freedom of speech, and many more only known to 3 people Locash, Brad, and Kasper. We all respect Fellows descision staying with .com. I am sure he respects our descision joining and sticking with .org.
Fellowship
2004-05-30, 03:13
Hi you guys,, It ate at me today the things I said in frustration about the events of the past days.
I am sorry for my words of frustration. I am sorry for using the words power hungry geeks.
I am sort of an emotional guy and sometimes I make mistakes that bother me after I run my mouth "sort of off the hip" if you will.
I have had some sinus issues this week and not had the sleep I needed and it revealed a tone which I do not want any part of.
Please know I am regretful of my words which were said in a way that hurt..
With respect,
Fellowship
No need to apologise Fellows.
This situation has been a trying experience for some people who have invested a lot of time and effort into AI, and it is hard when it gets ripped out from underneath you.
I am sure that most here would not mind if you popped in to say hello every once and awhile.
:)
NosferaDrew
2004-05-30, 03:30
Pulleeaassee!
Take it all back and everything's fine?
:rolleyes:
I had a lengthy discussion with him about this topic yesterday, after he posted this thread.
For me, it's all good. :)
I agree with Fellowship here. It is all so very sad... :(
it's the same apology i would get when i pm'ed him about name calling back when.
after the second time i started taking his mea culpas with a grain of salt.
groverat
2004-05-30, 11:16
I think it shows perfectly how much this site about the "community" when LoCash responds with petty, childish bile to a perfectly respectful post by Fellowship.
Cybermonkey
2004-05-30, 11:20
That wasn't a respectable post at all, It was a bitch slap and even Fellowship has acknowledge that by apologising.
groverat
2004-05-30, 11:29
Fellowship will apologize for anything if people get mad because he is very nice. Read the post, it is respectful and not mean-spirited.
it's his pathology, mean and snappy, then warm and gushy apology, i've seen it before.
and then more crap about understanding, hell grover, you used to be moderator when he pulled this shit.
groverat
2004-05-30, 11:41
The Fship of today and the Fship of pre-FiresideChat days are very different. If he posts 18 threads in 30 minutes then we can make the comparison.
I believe in forgiveness with repentence, amen. :)
Lee Ho Fook
2004-05-30, 11:43
good ol' fellowship, still playing both sides of the fences.
he has nothing against brad and locash except that they are power hungry geeks.
he's a bad guy, then a good guy, it's like he's hulk hogan or something. and the way everyone started kissing his ass when he finally stopped his constant name-calling made me want to vomit.
a leopard doesn't change it's spots, especially self-righteous ones.
I'm so so damn happy that your name is one long name again.
Long live beef chow mein!
how bizarre, i'm eating leftover shrimp chow fun and about put a chopstick through the roof of my mouth. gee i wonder who lee ho fook could be. ;)
my last word on fellowship is this, it's his pathology, look at the first post.
he was mean to me when i was a newbie, he disregarded posting guidelines that he now champions, and yeah i hold a grudge.
Quagmire
2004-05-30, 12:44
I am getting a little tired defending people's decisions. Especially you groverat. If you don't like this community you can go back to .com. No one is forcing you to stay at this poorly run, piece of crap community ;). You can bash yourself on the head and forget about this place and move on with life. On another hand I can defend anyone else's decisions. At least they apologize for the mean stuff they said what they didn't mean because of lack from sleep. But, you saying it is true groverat is just plain out rude.
Yeah groverat, blow it out your earhole!*
* for those who don't get the joke I'm not making fun of groverat
thegelding
2004-05-30, 12:58
i would ask g'rat to just let it all go...
but whatever
at least here he can complain about locash and brad
try that at .com and see how long it lasts before posts are removed and banning sticks come out
g
Quagmire
2004-05-30, 13:02
i would ask g'rat to just let it all go...
but whatever
at least here he can complain about locash and brad
try that at .com and see how long it lasts before posts are removed and banning sticks come out
g
Good point. Kasper will just ban him. But, maybe the good admin come along and unban him. Then Kasper bans him or her and he or she will be forced to come here.
groverat
2004-05-30, 13:32
g:
Why not ask the administration here to "let it all go"? Why is bashing .com acceptable while criticizing .org not?
If everyone were to "let it all go" this place would die, the controversy is what keeps this place alive.
Perhaps it is not clear right now, but here are a few facts:
1) The "revolution" was not about the community, it was about a handful of people.
2) Once everyone "lets it all go" only those handful will remain posting on this site, and maybe a few other teenagers who enjoyed the emotional drama.
3) .com wasn't/isn't that bad. Everyone once in a while you get an annoying banner ad and that's about it. The admin issues became a community problem once Brad, et al started whining in public; the Suggestions forum and elsewhere.
I have no personal beef with anyone involved with .org.
I think Brad has some emotional issues where he needs constant reassurance and attention that make him a bad admin candidate, but that's about it. It played itself out over and over again in the mod forum, and if you guys can bash Kasper on the front page of .org then I have no qualms about voicing my opinion of Brad as an administrator.
I think a lot of .org's higher-ups are heavy in defensive mode and can't see my 3 facts clearly, but that will correct itself in time, especially #3.
yeah, i think it's time to close the revolucion forum.
thegelding
2004-05-30, 13:44
but is .org so bad?? let them have this site...let it build and move away from .com....i'm sure the name will change with time and then the site stands or dies on its own...
you claim it will just be a few 20 somethings hanging here, but i think you are wrong...i always got great advice from the people that are now here...
yes, it has been in defensive mode since the change...yes i want that to stop...yes i would likely post differently than locash has at times...but this has been very personal to him, so i cut him so slack...
and yes, if the posting here doesn't grow, then of course this site dies...but i think it will
time will tell...remember i still go to both...having more sites to go to is a good thing
bests
g
thuh Freak
2004-05-30, 15:07
Why not ask the administration here to "let it all go"? Why is bashing .com acceptable while criticizing .org not?
from what i've seen, and i hveant exactly been poking around the 'Viva la Revoluction' area too much, is that the revolutionaries havent been starting threads and pushing their banter as much as people have been asking about it. f'ship came in and said some things, and they responded. criticizing org isn't appreciated, of course, here, just like criticizing com isn't appreciated there. i'm inclined to think most of the posters here feel some attachment to this site, and therefore do'nt like to hear anything negative about it. we point out repeatedly though, that you don't get banned for talking about it here. and as this site is basically the only place to talk about it, you're more oft to get a org-sided story.
If everyone were to "let it all go" this place would die, the controversy is what keeps this place alive.
i disagree. this site has more value (to me) than the other one. where would people play project challenge (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=259) (shameless plug) every week? and i dont feel like anything is taboo here. for a long time, it seemed to me, that brad and others, had censored themselves with regard to the kasper situation. ok, its back to that old controversy. but i'm inclined to think that we won't have to keep anything off the keyboard here. "fuck locash. he's a rat bastard, and i bet his momma wears combat boots". lets see if that gets edited out. i doubt the administration here does searches over our typing to see if we're talking badly about them, as i hear they do at com.
thegelding
2004-05-30, 16:23
"fuck locash.
careful with what you wish for, at the very least you are guaranteed a nasty rash from that, and likely much worse....
the line: "it's gonna take a lot more than ointment to heal that" suddenly springs to mind for some reason
g
Cybermonkey
2004-05-30, 16:28
careful with what you wish for, at the very least you are guaranteed a nasty rash from that, and likely much worse....
the line: "it's gonna take a lot more than ointment to heal that" suddenly springs to mind for some reason
g
:D and quite possibly a hemorrhoid cushion :eek:
Fellowship
2004-05-30, 16:39
I happened to watch a pastor give a message over unity today.
I thought that was interesting... He mentioned Ephesians 4 in the Bible..
Some other quotes I like :)
I offer you peace. I offer you love. I offer you friendship. I see your beauty. I hear your need. I feel your feelings My wisdom flows from the Highest Source. I salute that Source in you. Let us work together for unity and love.
--Mahatma Gandhi
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
--Edmund Burke
We must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
--Benjamin Franklin
By union the smallest states thrive. By discord the greatest are destroyed.
--Sallust
There with commutual zeal we both had strove In acts of dear benevolence and love; Brothers in peace, not rivals in command.
--Homer ("Smyrns of Chios")
Divide and command, a wise maxim; Unite and guide, a better.
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
A wise man hears one word and understands two.
--Yiddish Proverb
So we grew together, Like to a double cherry, seeming parted, But yet an union in partition-- Two lovely berries moulded on one stem; So, with two seeming bodies, but one heart; Two of the first, like coats in heraldry, Due but to one, and crowned with one crest.
--William Shakespeare
Peace :)
Fellows
"don't piss on me and tell me it's just raindrops"
--superkaratemonkeydeathcar
Fellowship
2004-05-30, 17:37
"don't piss on me and tell me it's just raindrops"
--superkaratemonkeydeathcar
I will make sure to piss on you and tell you it is piss ;)
:p
Fellows
pscates2.0
2004-05-30, 18:11
:D
I will make sure to piss on you and tell you it is piss ;)
:p
Fellows
:) :) ok i'll play nice now. maybe.....but you know, i am an asshole :D
NosferaDrew
2004-05-30, 18:26
Fellowship is in the fourth stage of grief. He will soon come to the fifth which is acceptance - a place where 98% already are.
The past is a guidepost, not a hitching post.
--L. Thomas Holdcroft
If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
--Warren Buffett
Always choose the future over the past. What do we do now?
--Brian Tracy
My mama was wearing combat boots the day I was born. I repelled down off the umbillical in my camouflage diaper and crawled to the door. Had a humvee stroller and tricycle tank, and three diaper pins on my collar for rank. Cruised the ward shouting, "I wanna be a recon ranger!"
:cool:
g:
Why not ask the administration here to "let it all go"? Why is bashing .com acceptable while criticizing .org not?
I think it's pretty obvious that it's OK to criticise .org as well here. I think that fact is evident when we don't close the threads that seek to do so or ban those doing it. The beginning of this thread was asking myself or Brad to come back and counter any points Fellows had made. This seems to me to be more of a public debate if you will.
If everyone were to "let it all go" this place would die, the controversy is what keeps this place alive.
Probably not. If I closed off this forum and filled the front end with articles that didn't relate to the "revolution", this place wouldn't die. If it was only about the controversy, the other forums here wouldn't see so much traffic. If it were only about the controversy, the Feedback forum wouldn't be so active. The people that have registered and post at this site on a regular basis have a vested interest in making it work. They like it here for a number of reasons, and many of them still visit appleinsider.com.
I don't really have a problem with who visits appleinsider.com and posts here. Brad, alcimedes (Because I always forget to add him in), and myself all felt that we could do things better than Kasper. Hell, he half challenged me to do so a number of times in the mod forum. We talked to some of the members about what we would like to do, they seemed pretty savvy to the idea, so we continued moving forward. The site is already standing on its own, and it isn't going to fall over anytime soon, especially after we implement something this coming week.
1) The "revolution" was not about the community, it was about a handful of people.
It was about a handful of people that wanted to change the community, much like any revolution. The members that came over here and have made this site successful are the ones that believed in what we were doing and followed us. You can say it is about ego on Brad, Eric, and I's part, and sure, maybe there is a little ego mixed in there. Who doesn't get off on that just a little? We didn't want to split the community, but we did want to provide a better user experience for people. Sometimes things get worse before they can get better.
2) Once everyone "lets it all go" only those handful will remain posting on this site, and maybe a few other teenagers who enjoyed the emotional drama.
Again, I don't think you're correct. Time will tell, but we're already laying the foundation for this site to actually succeed. In the coming weeks a few things will change that will open the doors to an entirely new reader base, and the site will continue to live on its own... much like appleinsider.com lives.
Personally, I think most of the people at .org have let it go. I have so much work to do here implementing user requests and tweaking templates and writing code that I haven't had a chance in weeks it seems to care much about "it" at this point. The only time I have to start paying attention to it is when I get voicemail or a letter from Monish and Kasper, or when my ISP calls me to tell me they got one too but they have dismissed the abuse complaint. Then it gets rehashed.
3) .com wasn't/isn't that bad. Everyone once in a while you get an annoying banner ad and that's about it. The admin issues became a community problem once Brad, et al started whining in public; the Suggestions forum and elsewhere.
I don't think appleinsider.com is that bad. I don't think Kasper is the antichrist. I think Kasper is a pompous, self-righteous asscarnival, and that's why I stopped working "with" him, if you can even call it that. I also took him up on his challenge to go start my own site. I don't hate .com that much, and if I weren't banned, I'd still read it. It wasn't so much the annoying banner ads as it was whenever anyone had to "deal" with Kasper. The man doesn't exactly radiate charisma.
I have no personal beef with anyone involved with .org.
I think Brad has some emotional issues where he needs constant reassurance and attention that make him a bad admin candidate, but that's about it. It played itself out over and over again in the mod forum, and if you guys can bash Kasper on the front page of .org then I have no qualms about voicing my opinion of Brad as an administrator.
I don't know, you're playing armchair psychiatrist with your opinion of Brad :p I'm not really qualified to comment on any emotional problems he may have, if any, but I find Brad to be a fine admin. I think the admins we have here needed a place where they could be more ambitious than they would have ever been allowed to be at .com. There was a glass ceiling at .com and it wasn't very high. If there was any ego in it for me, I got tired of not being able to do enough, and that can be interpreted so many different ways that if you guys want to do a Freudian analysis in here of me, go ahead... but start another thread :p
I think a lot of .org's higher-ups are heavy in defensive mode and can't see my 3 facts clearly, but that will correct itself in time, especially #3.
I think we're in defensive mode because people like you keep coming over here and whipping out the artillery, and in turn you have people like Fellowship that also want us to address those points. Should I just not acknowledge the posts/threads so that I come off less defensive to you? Or maybe I should just agree with what everyone says, and let their point of view be the truth.
Of course we're defensive, and of course Kasper and co. are defensive as well. I've tried to be pretty open to criticism, but there is a lot that I simply don't believe. After the dust settles, maybe we can come back and play the "I told you so" game some more... but until then, it's really rampant speculation. Not all three of your "facts" are facts yet. Number three is, but one and two definitely aren't, and it's somewhat daft to tell those who were actually involved in the "revolution" what it was about.
I will make sure to piss on you and tell you it is piss ;)
:p
Fellows:LOL:x10 :D
Best Fellows post EVAR!!!
(Can somebody fix the goddamned :lol: smilie for chrizzakes? :mad: )
Fellowship
2004-05-30, 21:32
:LOL:x10 :D
Best Fellows post EVAR!!!
I piss because I love :p :D
Trust me,, It's not rain ;)
Fellows
I piss because I love :p :D
Trust me, It's not rain ;) You're killin' me here, man... :D :D :D
it's a freakin' smoochfest.....get a room will ya?
it's a freakin' smoochfest.....get a room will ya?2 posts is a smoochfest? :confused:
Come here SKMD...you need a hug. :p
*unziiiiiipppp*
groverat
2004-05-30, 23:32
If it was only about the controversy, the other forums here wouldn't see so much traffic.
Not true at all. I have looked at some of the peripheral forums even though all I am interested in is the "revolution".
I don't think this place will "die" as in everyone will stop posting, but it will be tiny compared to .com. This is not a replacement, it will barely be a supplement.
And that's fine. Hell, I love OI which is like 6 people.
Who doesn't get off on that just a little?
On being a moderator/admin and having power? Lots of people.
It is more than a little ego, be honest here. I guess you cannot re-read those posts at the .com moderator forum but Brad literally screams for attention, "Why can't I get some appreciation!" etc... like he did everything (which he did not). If you think that will turn off for .org you're crazy.
Look at that .pdf someone was posting, Brad is screaming and cussing for attention like a toddler at the candy aisle.
It wasn't so much the annoying banner ads as it was whenever anyone had to "deal" with Kasper. The man doesn't exactly radiate charisma.
So that justifies hacking his account?
Or can we dismiss Brad's behavior because of some infection or surgery but its ok to place full blame on Kasper? What if he has been feeling under the weather, too? :rolleyes:
I don't know, you're playing armchair psychiatrist with your opinion of Brad I'm not really qualified to comment on any emotional problems he may have, if any, but I find Brad to be a fine admin.
I think it is obvious when he does something so wrong it has to be publicly justified by pain medication. Be honest with yourself.
I have been at AI since 1998. I know Brad/starfleetX. I was a mod when he was moved from member to mod to admin.
He went way too far and he gets no respect from me. I was nice at .com even while he was doing his best to destroy what relationship there was between the mods/admins and Kasper, but I think the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to look at it objectively.
and it's somewhat daft to tell those who were actually involved in the "revolution" what it was about.
I don't think you can see the forest for the trees.
Should I just not acknowledge the posts/threads so that I come off less defensive to you? Or maybe I should just agree with what everyone says, and let their point of view be the truth.
Well there is nothing you can do now, you hitched your wagon to a crybaby mule team. I don't know what to tell you except pick 'em better next time. When your fearless leader is an emotional wreck you might have to think twice about the journey, lest you yet again be left to clean up his messes.
Also, what do you do on a technical level? Coding? Design?
He went way too far and he gets no respect from me. I was nice at .com even while he was doing his best to destroy what relationship there was between the mods/admins and Kasper, but I think the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to look at it objectively.
The truth? That you are bitter, vindictive and/or jealous and we don't have to pay attention to YOUR cries for attention here?
That's cool.
Barto
Costique
2004-05-31, 00:51
I've been contemplating on the AI conflict for this weekend, and the more I think about it, the less I like it. I really wasn't going to write this, but, since the stuff has already got in the public domain, I'm here in dire need for your opinions.
A quick note: if you see a question mark in my post, that's a question; no sarcasm, no answers implied.
Every conflict has at least two sides, and in this case both are wrong. I won't even mention Kasper's attitude because it doesn't need explaining here, at .org.
The moral aspect of duplicating the AppleInsider title is arguable, to say the least. Perhaps, I don't get something, but 2 AppleInsiders seem to be overkill. This is freaking me out. Do all of you think that's all right?
One problem, as I see it, is with the AI's name as such. Most of us are members of different forums and that's normal. Being a member of 2 AppleInsiders is schizophrenia. Or am I paranoid to think so?
Another problem is the so-called 'revolucion'. Are you serious? What do you mean? Taking over AppleInsider? An act of revenge? What is it? I'm asking this because the mere term scares me. I share your excitement and optimism about opening a new forum. But does it require a revolution? Do all of you think that's a wholesome activity? Can we survive without revolutions? I can.
I have a suggestion, unpopular enough to accuse me of trolling: let's rename AppleInsider.org to absolutely exclude any further escalation of the conflict. That alone, IMHO, will make it possible for many good people to register here without making a moral choice.
Do you think that a formal scandal will benefit the community or him who wants to sell more banner ad space? Do all of you hold the AppleInsider name as precious? Ask yourself what makes you post in these forums: the domain name or the people you communicate with? It's you who keep me visiting AppleInsider and I don't give a damn how you call it.
Remember, we all, I hope, have more important and interesting things to do than dishing the dirt. What we are doing right now with the AppleInsider can be classified as ambiguous. It just depends on what you are and what you know about the background.
I would be more than happy if we all together could make a more civilized decision on the future of the community. Let's not forget that there are a lot of children around, looking at the things we do. We, each of us, must be a good example to learn from.
Sincerely yours, Costique.
P.S. If mods tell me to shut up, I will.
I never really read into Brad's posts the same way you did. I'd have to re-read things and look at it in that light. I don't know how much that is really his true persona shining through, or if that's him trying to make drastic points. *shrugs*
I wasn't trying to justify Brad's use of Kasper's account. I"ve heard Brad's side of the story. He said since Kasper had removed his account, he wanted to use someone's account which he would not delete, and that was his own. Brad just wanted to be able to talk to the current mods/admins when he was being banned.
Now, would I have done the same? Certainly not. Do I think what he did was right? No, I think it was a flagrant abuse of his power. I have access to everybody's passwords at .org right now, and even though I knew I could take a look at them, I wouldn't. Even if I were in Brad's Reeboks I wouldn't have done that. It's a pretty simple ethical dilemma, and he's heard that from me too.
We're putting some things into place in the coming week or two that will guarantee us about as steady a stream of new traffic to the forum as appleinsider.com receives, if not more. It's something I was working on before this all went down. I wouldn't call the game before it's over. You seem to think this entire site has been a failure. Yeah, the way it was carried out was a failure... that would be when Kasper banned myself and Brad immediately and caused a stir in the community. That's certainly not how it was supposed to happen if we even decided to go through with it all.
I'm ultimately happy with the way everything has happened since then though. You and a few others seem to want to be pissed about it, and coming in here and telling people they have emotional problems and telling me I put together a crybaby team to run this site? Your remarks seem pretty extreme, and I think everything worked out just fine.
Kasper is participating more, he has been awakened more to how important the community is. Me, I don't have to work with him anymore, I have direct control over the box, a new community to start a new site with, etceteras.
I suppose I just disagree with your interpretation of the purpose of what I have done, and I really disagree with your assumption that the community isn't going to grow or mature as well as .com's has.
First I want to touch on two of Costique's questions, then I want to reveal a little about the "Revolution" that I don't think has been told.
First, Costique, the "revolution" term here was more used to "break free" of something. I think the working metaphor here was to break free and declare independence from appleinsider.com. Think of the boston tea party or something.... but substitute tea with ad banners? I dunno, but this is the general basis of the metaphor.
As far as a name change, it's something we've been pondering ever since the first day this site was up. Way before legal letters. A bunch of the members here actually WANTED a new name. It is very simple to say we should get a new name. Actually obtaining a new name is not so simple. This segues into what else I wanted to talk about...
The whole revolution began when Eric and I were talking one day about what it would take to "break away". At the time, we thought the name and a backup of the database would be key to making it work. So we got the appleinsider.org/net domain names, we were working on figuring out how to import the boards into vBulletin 3, we were coming up with front end content ideas, etceteras. At the time though, we thought for this to work, the members would need the same name and backups to make a clean split.
Yeah, so I was shocked (and maybe I shouldn't be, but all this made sense at the time) to find that after all this went down, our members didn't WANT a backup of the forums to be imported. Our members didn't WANT the same name. So now of course, we're a bit stunned, left trying to figure out what to change the name to. Anyhow, I'm really tired, so I'm going to go to bed now.
As for my technical role... I do some sysadmin stuff, almost all of the UI work, and I dabble with some of the coding. I do all the xhtml/css
Costique
2004-05-31, 01:40
I wasn't trying to justify Brad's use of Kasper's account. I"ve heard Brad's side of the story. He said since Kasper had removed his account, he wanted to use someone's account which he would not delete, and that was his own. Brad just wanted to be able to talk to the current mods/admins when he was being banned.
Now, would I have done the same? Certainly not. Do I think what he did was right? No, I think it was a flagrant abuse of his power. I have access to everybody's passwords at .org right now, and even though I knew I could take a look at them, I wouldn't. Even if I were in Brad's Reeboks I wouldn't have done that. It's a pretty simple ethical dilemma, and he's heard that from me too.I hoped so. God only knows how I hoped for you to say this.
First, Costique, the "revolution" term here was more used to "break free" of something. I think the working metaphor here was to break free and declare independence from appleinsider.com. Think of the boston tea party or something.... but substitute tea with ad banners? I dunno, but this is the general basis of the metaphor.I see. Perhaps, I was misled by some members severely bashing .com so that I started to suspect that was the primary reason for revolutionizing.
As far as a name change, it's something we've been pondering ever since the first day this site was up. Way before legal letters. A bunch of the members here actually WANTED a new name. It is very simple to say we should get a new name. Actually obtaining a new name is not so simple.What do you mean by not so simple? Isn't it a question of $10 per year? Or are there other complicating factors I'm unaware of?
Yeah, so I was shocked (and maybe I shouldn't be, but all this made sense at the time) to find that after all this went down, our members didn't WANT a backup of the forums to be imported. Our members didn't WANT the same name. So now of course, we're a bit stunned, left trying to figure out what to change the name to.Wow, I didn't know. Maybe, it's reasonable to make a poll?
LoCash, thank you for your explanation. I feel better now. :)
Look, what happened wasn't ideal and it's not 'whining' when members comment on it even in terms as strong as those used by Fellowship, who doesn't deserve the shit thrown at him in this thread, or by Groverat.
.com wasn't for its admins, its mods or for the members discussing its future in a secret forum but for its members. Concerns with the future of the place should have been discussed in public. Otherwise the best thing was for those admins who thought they couldn't carry on dealing with Kaspar, who I can see has behaved like a dick, should have been to just resign.
I also think it's wrong to say that Kaspar initiated this split when you were discussing what your were discussing on the guys forum. What the bloody hell did you expect? Did you actually expect he wasn't going to find out? Did you actually expect that shit wouldn't kick off when he did? Kaspar's bans, thread-deleting and general being-an-arsehole isn't grown-up behaviour but they don't mean he initiated all this. The people who posted suggestions in that thread in the TRC about importing databases to another server did that.
Brad and Jack were serious about it before Kaspar went Murbot on all us. Deal with it. It's their responsibility this happened, not Kaspar's.
This place, as it happens, clearly has a future, and I agree that that's what's important now. If it gets all the promised future traffic than that's great (I see the newest member right now is Nick dePlume, which is interesting) but for goodness sake don't give into the temptation to lower the portcullis and defend Castle .Org. from people who might hang around when they've got things off their chest. Let people express their disappointment and dissatisfaction, which they're perfectly entitled to feel, with a bit more frigging tolerance.
NosferaDrew
2004-05-31, 04:13
I also think it's wrong to say that Kaspar initiated this split when you were discussing what your were discussing on the guys forum. What the bloody hell did you expect? Did you actually expect he wasn't going to find out? Did you actually expect that shit wouldn't kick off when he did? Kaspar's bans, thread-deleting and general being-an-arsehole isn't grown-up behaviour but they don't mean he initiated all this. The people who posted suggestions in that thread in the TRC about importing databases to another server did that.
This is the fundamental issue that people who support .com more than .org don't seem to understand.
Kasper did initiate the split. He did it by cutting off access. He stopped the communication. He continues to do it to this day - and you don't question those actions at all? What's up with that?
So what do you object to? There was a discussion about how to make a better AI. If you objected to the thread, why didn't you or anyone voice some simple comment?
If Kasper was the type of person who is confident and secure he would have opened up a dialog and resolved the conflict.
He didn't. He pulled the plug which forced others to make choices.
If you have a disagreement with your significant other or a family member and you cut off communication completely. WTF do you expect to happen?
Don't you understand this?
So what do you object to? There was a discussion about how to make a better AI. If you objected to the thread, why didn't you or anyone voice some simple comment?
There wasn't a discussion. There was a thread on a secret forum I had no clue existed. If I'd been aware of it I'd have been able to participate in it. I wasn't and I didn't. I'm entitled to be pissed off.
edit: that's all I'm saying. I'm not getting into any bickering.
NosferaDrew
2004-05-31, 05:06
There wasn't a discussion. There was a thread on a secret forum I had no clue existed. If I'd been aware of it I'd have been able to participate in it. I wasn't and I didn't. I'm entitled to be pissed off.
edit: that's all I'm saying. I'm not getting into any bickering.
Like me, many found that so-called "secret forum" simply by clicking the view new posts link like I do pretty much every forum I'm a member of.
It was simple. It wasn't secret.
If you're pissed off, why are you automatically pissed off at Brad and LoCash? Why aren't you pissed off at Kasper?
You didn't answer my questions about Kasper's actions causing the split.
Like me, many found that so-called "secret forum" simply by clicking the view new posts link like I do pretty much every forum I'm a member of.
It was simple. It wasn't secret.
If you're pissed off, why are you automatically pissed off at Brad and LoCash? Why aren't you pissed off at Kasper?
You didn't answer my questions about Kasper's actions causing the split.
If it was a normal forum then what the fuck were you doing discussing what you were discussing there? If it was a normal forum then why wasn't it on the homepage? If it was a normal forum then why the discussion of who 'the mole' was? If it was a normal forum then how come members of four years didn't know it was there?
The future of the community was being discussed in a place that the majority of its members didn't know existed. Da daa. You can't deny this because it is a fact.
I'm pissed off with Brad and LoCash for splitting the community without discussing the split with all its members. Please don't tell me that they were rushed into by Kaspar. They had time to find a server, register a domain name and post images of the new design. The thread was going for weeks.
I don't want to get into this. The more I think about it the more pissed off I get, and I intend to come back here because I like many of the people who post here.
Costique,
Changing the name is simple... once you know what that name should be. We're left with the impossible 21st century challenge of coming up with a name that has an acceptable .com TLD available for use. We have a thread in Feedback brainstorming ideas.... and as soon as we have one, it's a matter of ten bucks a year to keep it. Until then... that is not typically an overnight process.
If it was a normal forum then what the fuck were you doing discussing what you were discussing there? If it was a normal forum then why wasn't it on the homepage? If it was a normal forum then why the discussion of who 'the mole' was? If it was a normal forum then how come members of four years didn't know it was there?
The future of the community was being discussed in a place that the majority of its members didn't know existed. Da daa. You can't deny this because it is a fact.
I'm pissed off with Brad and LoCash for splitting the community without discussing the split with all its members. Please don't tell me that they were rushed into by Kaspar. They had time to find a server, register a domain name and post images of the new design. The thread was going for weeks.
I don't want to get into this. The more I think about it the more pissed off I get, and I intend to come back here because I like many of the people who post here.
Ok, some things about that thread...
It was a hidden forum that mostly only the regulars knew about. The reason we started a thread there was to get some initial feedback on the concept as we developed it from some of the people that had been at AI the longest. We wanted a place where the thread would see traffic from people, but we knew Kasper would never see it, nor anyone who would want to tell him, because it was a bit hidden. Kasper never would have found it if someone had not told him about our specific thread.
See, the possibility of splitting has been discussed many a times before. Nobody ever thought it would have more than a fool's hope until recently when, as I mentioned before, we acquired some domain names. So Brad, Eric, and myself started that thread to bounce it off of some of the core members' heads. We were eventually, as soon as we got brad back from surgery, were going to show what we had done to Amorph and the other mods and admins and say, "Look at this. This will work. What do you think?"
That alone would have netted us even more feedback. Unfortunately, there was never a good way to run this one by the entire community. Instead, we had to be satisfied with running it by all the admins/mods eventually and through AI's core reader base that had been around long enough to know that we have almost always had a hidden forum. I'm sorry there was no good way to notify you of the thread, but there wasn't a better way to do that.
As I've said before, if I were in Kasper's Doc Martin's, I wouldn't have banned myself and Brad. Seriously, if I saw that discussion with all the positive reception it had been getting from those reading it... I'd be pissed, but I would come to my senses soon enough to realise that banning would be too much of an offense. Mods and admins have been put in that situation before at AppleInsider.com, and sometimes we have crossed the line, but someone always corrects it. This time, Kasper went over the line and he didn't have anyone to say, "Woah buddy, too far."
If I were him, I would have said to myself eventually, "Woah, I'm really doing something wrong. Besides, look at how many would follow these guys. Rather than risk my community, let's see if we can patch this one up."
No, Kasper decided to go to war. Sure, if you want to play the game, you could say Brad started it when he created that thread. But that is not completely fair, because there were multiple possible outcomes for that action. Instead, Kasper forced one of many possible outcomes to occur. Thus, he split the community. He split the community because had he acted like a more sane Admin would have, the creation of that thread may not have caused the community to split.
Anyhow, you guys can be pissed at Brad and myself for playing a part in it. In retrospect there are many things I'd of done differently. At the time we didn't have as much to work with though. I'll take part of the blame for what happened, and as I"ve said before, it really wasn't supposed to go down like this. :(
NosferaDrew
2004-05-31, 06:09
The future of the community was being discussed in a place that the majority of its members didn't know existed. Da daa. You can't deny this because it is a fact.
The possible future.
And if it came to pass that a new community would be formed, it would have been done in an orderly manner - not the chaos that Kasper caused.
Understand that and own up to it.
I'm pissed off with Brad and LoCash for splitting the community without discussing the split with all its members. Please don't tell me that they were rushed into by Kaspar. They had time to find a server, register a domain name and post images of the new design. The thread was going for weeks.
Again, you're placing blame incorrectly. Either you don't fully understand what has hapened or you refuse to.
You're just ignoring the fact that Kasper was the ultimate catalyst for the split.
It's fairly easy to put up a site, but LoCash, Brad, alcimedes et al have made this a very polished site in quite a short time.
I don't want to get into this. The more I think about it the more pissed off I get, and I intend to come back here because I like many of the people who post here.
lol. Why be pissed?
We want you here. We want all those who can contribute to be here.
I'm just trying to make you see that you couldn't even possibly post these comments over at .com. Kasper wouldn't allow it.
Don't you understand that that's wrong?
And why can't the two sites exist?
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 06:32
If it was a normal forum then what the fuck were you doing discussing what you were discussing there? If it was a normal forum then why wasn't it on the homepage? If it was a normal forum then why the discussion of who 'the mole' was? If it was a normal forum then how come members of four years didn't know it was there?
The future of the community was being discussed in a place that the majority of its members didn't know existed. Da daa. You can't deny this because it is a fact.
I'm pissed off with Brad and LoCash for splitting the community without discussing the split with all its members. Please don't tell me that they were rushed into by Kaspar. They had time to find a server, register a domain name and post images of the new design. The thread was going for weeks.
I don't want to get into this. The more I think about it the more pissed off I get, and I intend to come back here because I like many of the people who post here.
Hassan You have NAILED what PISSED ME OFF.
After we all learned of the Banning of Brad and Co. I then find out about this Freaking thread in Anders TRC. Now yes I did know there was an Anders TRC forum but that is not the point. The point you make is the point indeed. The funny thing about this whole thing is the name AppleInsider. It is as you say... The cool cats in the "secret" forum make these poor choices that DID in fact affect the entire membership of the Appleinsider.com community. "They" "the cool cats" as they see themselves go on to lay out in semi-public the seeds of this measure of theirs to split the community. When I read this thread in PDF after this all happened I was most upset at some people I had known over time. I found that they had never told me over IM chat conversations of this "conversation" in this thread at Anders TRC. I had for the most part stopped viewing the TRC as it was very childish in nature and I tend to prefer mature discussion on balance. People like Defiance were involved in this thread about this "idea" to split the community. I was personally let down by many people after reading this PDF.
It smelled so badly of kids who view themselves as the "elite" "cool cat" "insiders" who will at no concern of the membership at large set out on this process of theirs which I believe has caused many people stress and hurt.
Some of us will voice our "pissed" nature because we value the idea of community.
What Jack and Brad and the "cool cat" kids fail to see is that their "insider" "secret" plans to do this has hurt the community.
This is the simple truth and they are in complete denial of it all.
You bet I was upset at Defiant when he NEVER let me know of this thread when we had IM conversations over iChat.
This whole thing was a "cool cat" "cool kids" "kids" thing.
Not mature... Not cool... And it stinks all around.
The "name copy",,, The divide of the community over petty differences...
Can I forgive... Yes.. Put it behind me? Yes...
Did I enjoy this? No. I am as my title of this thread is labled.. Disappointed.
Fellows
I think we see where you're getting at... that if Brad, Eric, and I had never discussed these plans in that thread, this wouldn't have happened. This was bound to happen, in some way or another. It's like I said in a prior post... there were many outcomes for starting that thread, however, when everyone got banned, Kasper chose which outcome. In choosing this particular outcome, he more immediately hurt the community.
Admittedly, I don't think Kasper or myself want to say, "Yeah, I screwed the pooch." Now that the dust is settling, I don't think the community is hurt as much as everyone thinks. From what I hear since I'm banned, it sounds like Kasper is participating a lot more. The only people he isn't getting back to reading his site are either the ones he banned or the ones he pissed off with his recent appreciation of censorship.
On this side, we got to start building a community more for the people and how we thought it should all be run. I wish it had gone down differently, but it didn't. The only people that seem to be hurt by this are the ones that never saw the hidden thread. It wasn't a cool kids sort of thing. It was an idea we had that was still very much in its infancy that we weren't ready to show to everyone yet. I'm sorry if some of you feel otherwise, or have some strange emotional dysfunction that makes you want to think that this was all about being 31337 or whatever, but it really wasn't.
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 06:46
It wasn't a cool kids sort of thing. It was an idea we had that was still very much in its infancy that we weren't ready to show to everyone yet. I'm sorry if some of you feel otherwise, or have some strange emotional dysfunction that makes you want to think that this was all about being 31337 or whatever, but it really wasn't.
Bullshit... Be honest.. If you guys had the community in mind which you did not you would have had the balls to post this in a real forum at Appleinsider.com
Fellowship
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 06:55
Tell ya what everyone,,, To be a man of my word I will no longer say any comments about this subject.
People know where I stand. I will not continue on about it.
I do forgive the events here as I am nobody to be in a situation not to.
We are all humans here and we all can work together in the future.
Fellows
Bullshit... Be honest.. If you guys had the community in mind which you did not you would have had the balls to post this in a real forum at Appleinsider.com
Fellowship
Grow up.
Fellowship, I never thought I'd say this to you: maybe you should have shut up a while back, before you made an ass out of yourself.
I respect your view that this was terrible, that Brad and LoCash shouldn't have started the TRC thread, whatever. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. BUT you seem intent on destroying your considerable influence at these boards by being an ass about it.
Barto
Fellowship, I never thought I'd say this to you: maybe you should have shut up a while back, before you made an ass out of yourself.
I respect your view that this was terrible, that Brad and LoCash shouldn't have started the TRC thread, whatever. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. BUT you seem intent on destroying your considerable influence at these boards by being an ass about it.
BartoWhat influence? He has no influence on me, that's for sure. :shrugs:
Don't tell me he's a moderator ... surely not - his posts don't appear to be that moderate to me. :confused:
Fellowship's consistent fair moderation and insightful comments for a long time earned him influence through the respect afforded him by other members.
Since Fellowship isn't a mod here, if the respect goes the influence goes with it.
Barto
Fellowship, I never thought I'd say this to you: maybe you should have shut up a while back, before you made an ass out of yourself.
i told you a leopard doesn't change it's spots.
reading all the activity in this thread that went down overnight, i'm just coming to a realization, are these people pissed because of the split?
or is it because they weren't in on it back at .com? because they weren't clever enough to find a "hidden" forum that was pretty much out in the open.
jesus, it's the latter isn't it? it's sour grapes! wow.
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 09:09
i told you a leopard doesn't change it's spots.
reading all the activity in this thread that went down overnight, i'm just coming to a realization, are these people pissed because of the split?
or is it because they weren't in on it back at .com? because they weren't clever enough to find a "hidden" forum that was pretty much out in the open.
jesus, it's the latter isn't it? it's sour grapes! wow.
I said I have come to the point to move on. I am not sorry that I added the opinion that I and others share. It is ok to have a different opinion is it not? If I am not mistaken that is the reason this .org site exists is because some people have a different view than that of Kasper at .com.
So don't give me a hard time because I simply stated my view. It is ok for people to disagree. I have had an IM chat with Jack "Locash" and I have moved beyond this. I know it,, he knows it, and I am sure with due time you all will realize this is the past.
It is time to go forward and cooperate.
I realize throughout this thread I have used forceful language which I normally do not use. "Spots or not" :rolleyes:
I believe it is human nature for people to express their views. This .org site is an expression and my view is simply an expression of how I have seen things. Again it is no big deal and I am over it now.
Fellows
or is it because they weren't in on it back at .com? because they weren't clever enough to find a "hidden" forum that was pretty much out in the open.
jesus, it's the latter isn't it? it's sour grapes! wow.
I hate to say it, but I'm really beginning to think you're right. This has all been hashed and rehashed eleven times over, but some people keep ending up in the same place.
I got no more to say about it - I spilled my guts in the What's The Beef With Kasper thread, and I'm sticking with what I said there.
groverat
2004-05-31, 09:40
fellowship:
This is obviously upsetting you. No need for that. Go drive the Acura. ;)
barto:
I can see bitter and vindictive, but those would only make sense if I hadn't gotten so tired of .com I quit being a mod and had made my opinion of brad public before he turned hacker. But jealous? Be serious. The fact that you would think of "jealous" is yet another indicator that this is all purely ego driven.
locash:
I was not aware that plans were to upload .com's database to here. If that was discussed in the secret forum thread then I feel Kasper is fully justified in nuking your accounts. That is 100% wrong with no possible justification.
Brad just wanted to be able to talk to the current mods/admins when he was being banned.
e-mail? AIM?
Horrible excuse. So bad I can't believe you would parrot it.
You and a few others seem to want to be pissed about it, and coming in here and telling people they have emotional problems and telling me I put together a crybaby team to run this site?
I think crybaby is the perfect word.
Look at the freaking poem at the top of appleinsider.org. Are you kidding me?
I would love to see your comment on that, but it might be too embarrassing for anyone to acknowledge.
I feel for you that you are the one in here explaining fearless leader's psychosis.
As for my technical role... I do some sysadmin stuff, almost all of the UI work, and I dabble with some of the coding. I do all the xhtml/css
Good work on the UI, this place is nice looking.
It wasn't a cool kids sort of thing.
False. It is plain as day.
LoCash, thank-you for your explanation.
jesus, it's the latter isn't it? it's sour grapes! wow.
I like you, but this is bullshit.
People are entitled to be pissed off, especially those like me who had no clue that this was in the offing and had no idea there was even a problem since we didn't have to deal with Kaspar, couldn't access the mods forum or were, as you say, 'too stupid' to find the hidden one.
Eventually I will get over it. People who are pissed off, like me, deserve explanations like the one LoCash posted above rather than being told to stop whining.
I need to have it explained to me because as far as I was concerned, being 'too stupid' to find the hidden forum, there was nothing wrong with .com apart from the banner ads and the windbag who wrote the frontpage.
I was not aware that plans were to upload .com's database to here. If that was discussed in the secret forum thread then I feel Kasper is fully justified in nuking your accounts. That is 100% wrong with no possible justification.
While I'm at it, if you were discussing this on that thread, what the fuck did you expect Kaspar would do when he found the thread?
If this hidden forum was so easy to find that any member might just stumble in at any time, don't pretend that Kaspar wouldn't have found out. What the hell were you thinking?
groverat
2004-05-31, 09:53
People are entitled to be pissed off, especially those like me who had no clue that this was in the offing and had no idea there was even a problem since we didn't have to deal with Kaspar, couldn't access the mods forum or were, as you say, 'too stupid' to find the hidden one.
You are lying, Idris (Hassan?). It is obvious that there was a "stir" in the community! The time was ripe for "revolution"! The people demanded it!
Eventually I will get over it. People who are pissed off, like me, deserve explanations like the one LoCash posted above rather than being told to stop whining.
Do not make the mistake of being mad at LoCash, he is here to clean up the messes others have made. It is obvious who the joke is, and Jack ain't it.
I need to have it explained to me because as far as I was concerned, being 'too stupid' to find the hidden forum, there was nothing wrong with .com apart from the banner ads and the windbag who wrote the frontpage.
Hidden forums are, indeed, easy to find. But here's the thing: they are idiotic. They are about forum intrigue (like this), boosting post counts and forming a clique so you can feel like you have iFriends.
I remember Silicon Alley/Valley. I don't know how long you've been posting but I've been here since the turquoise and black days.
There are no ads here, but the front page has actually gotten worse.
groverat
2004-05-31, 09:55
While I'm at it, if you were discussing this on that thread, what the fuck did you expect Kaspar would do when he found the thread?
I wasn't. If I get on a secret forum the only thing I do is post about how stupid it is to have a secret forum. ;)
I was busy with graduating from college and moving when all this went down. I think on the actual day it happened I was watching TV and waiting for my broadband to come. :)
I didn't mean that for you, actually, but for 'you', meaning 'everyone posting on this thread who disagrees with me'. :)
Quagmire
2004-05-31, 10:08
I am very sorry for the people who did not find the trc. I found it but, even I didn't know this was happening in there. I think everyone here at .org did not support what Brad did ovr at .com. What did Brad do to get banned? I don'y even know. I am not pissed. I do fell a little left out but, that is life. Get over it Groverat, get over it fellows. That is a part of life knowing that you are left out.
Fellowship sometimes says some strong words…and sometimes some soft ones. That’s fine with me. I certainly have not always agreed with him – but I like the guy and he is most welcome here on .org. Indeed, EVERYONE on .com is welcome here. I have said this before, and I will say it again, but NO PART of the impetus for .org should be to leave anyone behind from the community. Some people will inevitably dislike the posts of some others - but this is part of a web forum – and part of what makes it interesting.
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 10:35
get over it fellows.
You may have missed this post (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?p=4629#post4629)
I am "over it"
For the record... I will say that people should not be given grief because they have discussed this. To tell people that this is old news and to "get over it" at all stages of this and throughout many different threads here which deal with this is being rude to people who may not have had their say and been clear on their view of things.
Also I find it funny that people who are a little torn over the divide in the community are told to "get over it" while on the other hand some of you could not "get over" a few silly banner ads.
So the whole "get over it" thing is a little hypocritical and comical to say the least :rolleyes:
Again to sum up.... I am "over it"
Fellowship
Re some of points made about the Brad and LoCash’s TRC discussions about setting up an alternative AppleInsider, about Brad’s alleged hacking after being banned, and on the setting up of the .org site under the name of AppleInsider.
I do have problems with aspects of this, but I must say that I view all of it from fundamentally different lens than some – notably groverat. The only way that Brad and LoCash’s actions could be viewed as ‘completely unacceptable’ is if you accept the initial proposition that Kasper owned AppleInsider to begin with. I don’t accept that proposition. He might have a legal claim to the name “Appleinsider.com” but he has no legal or moral claim of ownership in the community.
I think that it was entirely legitimate for those who were effectively running the place to have serious discussions of alternatives that might be invoked if they could not maintain agreement with the ‘owner’ about how site should be administered. And while I have some problem with Brad’s actions after being banned – if what I understand is correct (and I am not sure I have the full story) – I will cut him some slack on this because I think that Kasper had no right to unilaterally ban him in the first place: whatever the legal situation, Brad had as much a moral right to stay on .com as Kasper does. Finally, while I would prefer a name change at .org, I do think that if those at .org wanted to, they would have every moral right (and perhaps legal as well) to retain the “AppleInsider” name. Once again, I don’t think that Kasper has any ownership rights in the community.
thegelding
2004-05-31, 10:52
god children....as my sister in law says to her 4 year when she is having a "conniption" ... "calm your body"
anyways: happy memorial day to all... hope everybody's families are safe...g'rat, is your brother still in the military? hope he is well
now, back OT (the freakin' topic i keep telling myself i am through with)
ok, things i think will and should happen...name change, front page change
but g'rat (addressing to you as you seem most angry by all this...and yes i know you won't agree with the use of the word angry), there are already lots of things in the works to do this...plans of monthly articles by murbot, possible plans to set up talks on mock ups, possible plans to use the international base of posters to have vacation/travelog-"this is were i live, this is why you should visit it" monthly posts, and lots of things i don't even know about (possibly even a return of rumors)...so the front page will change and the site will also grow and change... personally i would like the front page to change sooner than later
about downloading .com database...i'm not for that for two reasons (and please note that it hasn't been done yet and may never be)...one, people can still search for a thread at .com anytime they want (maybe some threads are deleted, but the world ain't perfect and people will have to deal with that) and secondly, it isn't necessary ... this place will start it's own threads, it's own database...it is gonna grow plenty fast...
<g'rat quote>
I think Brad has some emotional issues where he needs constant reassurance and attention that make him a bad admin candidate, but that's about it. It played itself out over and over again in the mod forum, and if you guys can bash Kasper on the front page of .org then I have no qualms about voicing my opinion of Brad as an administrator.
__________________________________________________ _____________
that i would call bad form...if you really believe that brad has emotional issues you should never bring that up in an open forum...use PM, email etc...people with emotional problems need help and care, not open attacks in a public forum...and if you don't really believe that then it is a nasty attack on somebody's character...either way, bad form...but g'rat always has been the bobby knight of ai...smart as hell, constantly thinking, and a bit of a bully...no biggie, coach knight has made a nice career for himself that way
<g'rat quote>
I don't think this place will "die" as in everyone will stop posting, but it will be tiny compared to .com. This is not a replacement, it will barely be a supplement.
__________________________________________________ ______________
it won't at all be a supplement, it will be separate and different, give it time...as for size, hell, it has just started...i expect the membership to double, then triple and more...and what matters is really not how much, but the valve of the posts...sure .com has tons of members, but how many post? how many registered just for convention time and never return?? .com likely has a core group of a couple of hundred that post regularly...by summers end .org will likely have the same
<g'rat quote>
So that justifies hacking his account?
Or can we dismiss Brad's behavior because of some infection or surgery but its ok to place full blame on Kasper? What if he has been feeling under the weather, too?
__________________________________________________ _____________
i am fairly sure that brad never blamed posting after he was banned on surgery or medication...we did that because we were so confused by the events of that day...now, looking back, it was likely two things...one, brad wanted to post and knew kasper wouldn't delete his own account, two, brad likely wanted to throw out a "FU, look what i can do" to kasper...both reasons are bad and wrong AND in the past...time to move on
and lastly, why are people mad and disappointed that brad and locash and alcimedes started their own forum?? and how does this hurt .com?? it can easily make both sites better...it is just like when people that work hard for a company decide to break off and form their own company...they now have to work hard to get their company up and running, but they can take pride in the work they do...if their leaving has left "holes" in the previous company, then it is up to management to file those holes...remember that in business nobody is suppose to be irreplaceable
ok, so now i think (if anybody cares what i think) it is time to close the revolution forums, at least to posting...let them be read for a couple of weeks so it is not like .org is censoring...but lock them and then archive them after a "grace" period
and people here, forgive g'rat and fellows and others from .com that are "venting" abit...remember that they cannot vent about this at .com so this is the only place that they can do that....
g
alcimedes
2004-05-31, 11:07
well, i think when the front end becomes active, and we grab a new url this forum can close. until then, it seems that a lot of people still want to talk about it.
an interesting read though.
however, what's done is done, and perceptions won't change reality. i'd rather work on reality than perceptions.
thegelding
2004-05-31, 11:11
god, just reading my posts....ugggggghhhh
when did i become (or try to become) the "elder" statesmen for .org
ick, i need to become much more irrelevant and semi-comical....it is more suitable to my true nature
next up fart jokes and parasite photos
g
Trumpetman
2004-05-31, 11:18
Well I haven't been the most inside on this whole issue, but I certainly posted in that thread and knew about the supposedly "secret" forum.
The "hidden" forum was only hidden to those who are so habitual as to never access .com in certain ways. All posts in it showed up in the new posts search which is how tons of people found it. It started off as a joke, not as attempt to be elite, hurt others, or anything else.
For those decrying the possible pondering of the database and the intent here, last time I checked it was actions we judged people on and not thoughts. The "outloud" thinking was occuring at .com because they people who created this place care about the community. To claim that it would have worked out if someone posted it in the general forums is just nonsense. It would be the equal of screaming fire in a movie theater. If anything discussing it in a far off place where most of the regulars end up discovering it and the general lurkers/newbies don't have to encounter it is the height of courtesy in my opinion.
Also the database was discussed in part because it appears that Kasper attempted to claim copyright ownership not just of the name and format for Appleinsider, but over all our posts as well. This same thinking is revealing itself in the continued banning of people over pm'ing, sigs, etc. If the boards were as strong as he claimed they were, if it were really only about the front page, then why all these police state type measures?
I believe if this site can get something on it's front page besides the .com fight/poetry and continue to innovate it will come into it's own.
Nick
groverat
2004-05-31, 11:20
He might have a legal claim to the name “Appleinsider.com” but he has no legal or moral claim of ownership in the community.
His claim is far more legitimate than Brad and LoCash, whose claim is entirely without merit; moral or legal.
I think that it was entirely legitimate for those who were effectively running the place to have serious discussions of alternatives that might be invoked if they could not maintain agreement with the ‘owner’ about how site should be administered.
Brad and LoCash were "effectively running the place"? That is a giant lie.
To say they wanted to run the place is closer to the truth, and this is as close as they will get.
g:
I think Brad has been handled with kit gloves long enough, to be honest. I think it speaks volumes that you guys are forced to make things up to clean up his messes while he says nothing (well, except in poetic verse).
As far as moving on, why not get Brad to do the same and take that garbage off the front page? Change the name of the site, also.
I think Brad should publicly apologize to Kasper for hacking .com. I think the name should be changed immediately.
and lastly, why are people mad and disappointed that brad and locash and alcimedes started their own forum??
Who is mad that Brad, LoCash and alci started their own forum?
I post at other forums. People start forums all the time, you are purposely missing the point.
Close the Revolution forum to posting? Prior restraint is censorship, too, g.
How would this be any different than Kasper locking down .org discussion?
thegelding
2004-05-31, 11:48
revolution forum was always planned to be short lived...unlike threads in suggestions and such...the sad part of the threads that "disappeared" at .com is that the mods from .com that posted to them made such wonderful posts...caring, open-minded....the fact that the owner made their eloquent posts disappear was an eye-opener to me...and i still hope and know that both sites will prosper
g
Fellowship
2004-05-31, 12:29
Relax everybody :)
How about some Peach Cobbler and Vanilla Ice Cream anyone??
Fellows
thegelding
2004-05-31, 12:32
cutting down on carbs...
but i'll have a vodka and soda with lime
g
Power Apple
2004-05-31, 16:52
hmmm.... it's pretty interesting to watch what's going on here and read about what happened and people's reactions. Especially being an admin myself!...
:eek:
Anyhow, good luck vith the new forum!
Windswept
2004-05-31, 17:15
hmmm.... it's pretty interesting to watch what's going on here and read about what happened and people's reactions. Especially being an admin myself!...
:eek:
Anyhow, good luck vith the new forum!
Nice site. :)
Nice site. :)Nice music too. :)
Power Apple
2004-05-31, 17:36
hey, thanks :)
A couple of things...
1) If I closed this forum to posting, the groverat might not ever have anywhere to post here :p
2) I know you're getting off on being "frank" over here, groverat. It is beginning to border on being an asshat though. So go back to .com and tell everyone how much you enjoy being frank and a prick over here. If you do we'll probably make that stop. You're welcome to discuss this over here, but you've crossed a couple of lines (thegelding pointed a couple out), and when you go back to appleinsider.com and brag about being an asscarnival over here, well, not cool.
3) We don't have a desire to use the database backups from ai.com. Nobody here wants them.
4) I'm not changing the name of this site until I have a better alternative. If that is so damaging to Kasper, he can file a lawsuit. What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.
What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.Dirt goes both ways...
Nice site. :)
I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!! :D
I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!! :DGrammar errors were for free though... ;)
Grammar errors were for free though... ;)
Who cares?! :D
groverat
2004-05-31, 23:28
2) I know you're getting off on being "frank" over here, groverat. It is beginning to border on being an asshat though. So go back to .com and tell everyone how much you enjoy being frank and a prick over here. If you do we'll probably make that stop. You're welcome to discuss this over here, but you've crossed a couple of lines (thegelding pointed a couple out), and when you go back to appleinsider.com and brag about being an asscarnival over here, well, not cool.
My God, the irony is thick.
I feel cut to the quick, I posted something that one of this site's moderators saw and it came back to you! TO THE QUICK, SIR! :rolleyes:
groverat: I am having so much fun at .org I can't even tell you guys. I love it when someone gives me a good excuse to be frank.
You got me! :rolleyes:
What lines have I crossed, LC? Pray tell.
I must confess that I did not read the posting guidelines when I registered (who does?).
Did I cuss? Or was it because I was mean to Brad?
3) We don't have a desire to use the database backups from ai.com. Nobody here wants them.
I didn't say you plan on using them now.
You discussed it then, which is why I say that if that was the case then Kasper was justified in nuking your accounts at that time.
4) I'm not changing the name of this site until I have a better alternative. If that is so damaging to Kasper, he can file a lawsuit. What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.
Yet Kaspers C&D is pathetic? ha
Windswept
2004-05-31, 23:33
I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!! :D
*VERY* impressive job, Leonis. :)
Groverat, if you hate .org so much why don't you just go back to .com? I don't see the point of coming over here and harassing us, other than to giggle a bit and laugh with all the other moderators at .com. Or rather, SOME of the other moderators at .com. Some of the mods over there probably DON'T take pleasure in harassing us, unlike you. So just shut the hell up.
Or keep ranting like an idiot if you want. We won't censor you, although if the thread gets out of hand it might get locked.
groverat
2004-06-01, 07:13
It is not harassment, Luca. I posted one sentence in the moderator forum at .com (which I gladly reposted here since murbot already took it upon himself to spread it around). I am sure LC has been silent on the matter in all other forums besides this one. :rolleyes:
Is my pointing out unpleasant facts supposed to pain me? I think it is funny how childish the whole thing was. I think it is hilarious that Brad takes it all so seriously that he felt he had to hack .com and blames it on pain medication and won't take responsibility for what he did; also hilarious that some consider this a "revolution" that AI posters really wanted when the vast majority of them knew nothing about it and most of them at .org will readily say they had no beef with .com.
If my pointing out obvious truth is so offensive, you can just as easily stop reading and responding as I can stop posting. It is not my job to censor the world for your delicate constitution, dear heart. If I am breaking a rule I have already asked to be made aware. This forum seems to be about this very subject, not about puppies or cars or airplanes.
But I go too far? Posting pathetic poetry (alliteration!) bashing Kasper is OK but fearless leader has his playground so one must be nice to him here, and others will clean up his melodramatic and be surly with the... revolutionary(?).
Jesus christ, I made a general comment in a chat with Jack about the Frank comment because I thought it was funny. You know, ha ha. I wasn't "spreading it around here". It involved groverat, Frank, Jamie, and Arthur & Martha. It had real erotic potential.
But anyway, don't let me interrupt you guys. Each of you is so close to changing the other's minds on this matter. A few more pages ought to do it!
...[snip]... So just shut the hell up.
geez Luca relax... they're only words. :rolleyes:
Personally I enjoy Groverat's posts - sometimes I think he means a few comments "tongue in cheek" and I take them for what they're worth.
Anyway, I'm all for open discussion. If people express a different opnion to mine (or yours) it doesn't really add much to the conversation if I (or you) tell them to "shut the hell up". Agree to disagree. alcimedes has a good grasp on what is *actually* being discussed and has chosen to state what he prefers to discuss in quite a rational manner.
however, what's done is done, and perceptions won't change reality. i'd rather work on reality than perceptions.No name calling, no vitriol - if I was a "Member Rating" type of person, I'd probably click him an approval. Heck, you're high up in the food chain here alcimedes, treat yourself to a positive click from me for your succinct and mature post above ;)
thegelding
2004-06-01, 07:24
lets continue this at .com then...would you care to start the thread g'rat or do you want me to? either is fine, just let me know...i haven't been banned there yet, so i can still start threads
g
what title should we use...perhaps "does Brad have emotional problems?"...maybe that thread wouldn't be deleted right away
pss...i'm pretty sure we all have emotional problems and want attention...just part of life...if not, why are we posting (often emotionally or aggressively) at a internet forum?
pscates2.0
2004-06-01, 07:43
I'm about to lob a hand grenade. 10, 9, 8... :p
Fellowship's consistent fair moderation and insightful comments for a long time earned him influence through the respect afforded him by other members.
Since Fellowship isn't a mod here, if the respect goes the influence goes with it.
BartoThanks for offering to clarify that for me Barto. I don't undersatand, though, what exactly his influence extended to - nor how respect afforded by other members for his consistent fair moderation and insightful posts gave him any influence. Influence over what/who exactly? (In other words, how did Fellowship's influence - or anybody else's for that matter - affect my posting experience on AI.com?)
Not asking for a debate or to derail this thread too much further ;) - but trying to understand the notion of influence and *power* on a message board such as this. If there are indeed "inmates running the asylum", I'd like to know who has the power and what their powers are exactly.
Anyone who would like to go off on this tangent or further elaborate on influence, then feel free to PM me. :) cheers!
As far as I am concerned, groverat is very welcome here and he is free to criticize .org all that he likes. And I say that without agreeing with him on most of his points. Of course, in line with the usual rule, personal attacks are not welcome, although we all have been guilty of that on occasion. But contrary to Don Cherry’s dictum, I think that you should ‘play the puck, not the man’.
I don't really want to continue that discussion in this thread, so I've fired off a PM to you Mac+ :)
I don't really want to continue that discussion in this thread, so I've fired off a PM to you Mac+ :)got it - thanks Barto :)
groverat
2004-06-01, 12:00
Apparently Jack didn't think it was very amusing, m, it sent a load of sand right up his vagina. :)
g:
--
why are we posting (often emotionally or aggressively) at a internet forum?
--
This is a great question.
thegelding
2004-06-01, 12:07
especially on a sunny, beautiful summer day
taking a hike, riding a bike, going for a swim, getting laid...all so much better for the soul than this....
g
pscates2.0
2004-06-01, 13:08
Gee, and here I've BEEN SAYING THIS FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. :mad:
But I get dinged for "not letting people air their gripes" and admonished "don't read the thread, then...".
Further evidence that I'm so damn far ahead of the curve, that most mere mortals take a good 2-3 weeks to finally catch up to - and get - what I'm saying.
:D ;)
Let this be a lesson to you people, and remember it the next time I spout off something that "sounds crazy" on the surface. Give it a couple of weeks and let it take root...
:p
groverat
2004-06-01, 13:11
It is sunny... and fucking HOT.
I went from Houston (92 deg + 67% humidity) back to Austin (92 deg + 54% humidity) and I feel like doing nothing but staying in the apartment and sucking on the air conditioner vent.
Unfortunately the precious is dirty from the 1000 mile solo road trip I took from Wednesday to today so I must give it the 1hour+ going over (wash - clay - wash - wax). It may feel like hell on toast outside but my iPod will get me through it and she will be shining, which is all the reward I need.
I would get laid but my action is 44 floors up in some Houston skyrise wearing a suit and working with people who make more money than my parents combined x 3. :(
But enough about me... ;)
alcimedes
2004-06-01, 13:13
you all suck. and i mean that.
it's been raining and cold here for a week.
groverat
2004-06-01, 13:15
I will happily trade with you.
The Daystar, it burns me.
thegelding
2004-06-01, 13:21
it always amazes me the differences between texas and here (one state over)..
always a few degrees cooler, at least, and no no humidity....of course we never have rain either which can suck...but the no humidity part is nice
current conditions from weather.com
79 degrees...13% humidity
ahhh, going for a 5 mile run at lunch (couple of times around the north campus golf course...perks of university hopsital work)...won't even get sweaty as the sweat just evaporates off at 13% humidity
g
pscates2.0
2004-06-01, 13:34
Well now that we seemed to have momentarily put our Asshole Jumpsuits back in the closet, let me chime in with some weather tidbits too: it's HOT AS A BASTARD, here in SW Tennessee.
:(
Actually, I take it back. It's not that hot. But it's about 493% humidity and you can't even look out the window without getting sweaty and gross.
Ugh.
The forecast, from now until Halloween: "Hot, mid-80's to mid-90's, humidity in the 70% range. Might rain and storm like hell for 3-56 minutes, several times a day without warning. Then extra hot and steamy after rain stops and sun returns. Enjoy!"
curiousuburb
2004-06-01, 16:20
Gee, and here I've BEEN SAYING THIS FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. :mad:
But I get dinged for "not letting people air their gripes" and admonished "don't read the thread, then...".
Further evidence that I'm so damn far ahead of the curve, that most mere mortals take a good 2-3 weeks to finally catch up to - and get - what I'm saying.
:D ;)
Let this be a lesson to you people, and remember it the next time I spout off something that "sounds crazy" on the surface. Give it a couple of weeks and let it take root...
:p
Arthur C. Clarke says ideas often have three stages of reaction - first, "It's crazy and don't waste my time". Second, "It's possible, but it's not worth doing". And finally, "I've always said it was a good idea".
- Ronald Reagan
thegelding
2004-06-01, 17:53
Well now that we seemed to have momentarily put our Asshole Jumpsuits back in the closet, let me chime in with some weather tidbits too: it's HOT AS A BASTARD, here in SW Tennessee.
:(
Actually, I take it back. It's not that hot. But it's about 493% humidity and you can't even look out the window without getting sweaty and gross.
Ugh.
The forecast, from now until Halloween: "Hot, mid-80's to mid-90's, humidity in the 70% range. Might rain and storm like hell for 3-56 minutes, several times a day without warning. Then extra hot and steamy after rain stops and sun returns. Enjoy!"
which is one reason me and the family moved from maryland to here...
g
ps...i never take off my asshole jumpsuit, i just put regular clothes on over it
I don't have an Asshole Jumpsuit.
I do, however, have an Arsehole Boilersuit, with 'HiS' monogrammed on the front pocket, and an 'I am an ARSEHAT!' baseball cap, however.
Raining like a beeyotch here in London and I want to live in California where it is always sunny.
Fellowship
2004-06-01, 22:48
Rain! I will show you rain... Almost the entire Dallas Metro area is out of power. I lost my power more than an hour ago and I lost even my cable but it is back. I come to you all on borrowed time with my UPS battery backup and my ibook battery.
We had 80 mile an hour winds and there is a lot of damage..
Fellows
DMBand0026
2004-06-01, 22:54
Boo hoo! ;)
I'm from northern Illinois, it's been about a month since we haven't had a tornado warning at least once every week, and this past week was no exception. I have family in Utica Illinois too, where about a month ago 7 people were killed in tornados. It's rough here in the Midwest, the weather has been crazy.
I love all this off-topic weather talk. I think when *real* people have conversations, they progress naturally from one subject to anothe
[snip]
Anyway, I know in some threads where a serious discussion is going on, off-topic banter would be out of place. I just hope we can stay fairly relaxed at .org and not become knee-jerk regimented. Just a thought.
Stick to the frigging topic, Carol.
Windswept
2004-06-02, 03:58
Stick to the frigging topic, Carol.
And good morning to you, Idris.
To get this back on topic, I am disappointed in both of you. :smokey:
thegelding
2004-06-02, 08:39
i am disappointed that i have to go to work today (another lovely day i might add)
i am disappointed that i am getting older (were did that full head of hair and taunt physique go?? probably to some youngster that doesn't appreciate it, that's where)
i am disappointed that i never learned to "double clutch" like murbot
(as you can see, i am only disappointed with myself...some would call that self-absorbed, i call it, i like others more than i like myself)
i am disappointed that i don't have a huge, porn star penis and cool porn star name...sure, mother naming me thegelding was cute at first, but in the long run wouldn't we all rather be named Richard Huge (with wonderful and joyous conversations like: "hello richard, or should i call you mr huge?" "please call me dick" and "have you met dick?" "you mean dick huge?" "yes, dick huge" "yes i have, and what a fulfilling meeting that was")
but, dang the weather is nice today
g
this week has been the stereotypical "if you don't like the weather in chicago, just wait ten minutes" weather.
yesterday morning sunny and clear, when i got the paper, and while i'm reading and eating my cheeriosª i hear thunder, sure enough two minutes later it's absolutely pissing down rain in bright sunlight.
i was out of the country through most of may, in a city called nanning, in the quangxi autonomous province of china. which reminded me of texas heat, but with less sun and 98% humidity. when the sun did come out.....man, it was something like africa.
groverat
2004-06-02, 10:32
98% humidity ain't no thang to Houston. It will be 100% for most of July and August. Luckily I won't have to endure that for another year.
Austin will keep with Houston in the high 90s/low 100s temperature wise, but will only be in the 50-70% humidity range. :)
Southern/Central Texas is really really hot.
Fellowship
2004-06-02, 10:40
Well damn it I am just disappointed :lol:
Every one of you all!!! :D
Fellows ;)
pscates2.0
2004-06-02, 10:41
I'll take 105º in Phoenix over 85º in Chattanooga ANY day. :(
Amazing, the difference humidity makes in a situation.
I was in Phoenix a few years ago and it was 112º. But the wind was blowing and if you were in the shade, it was totally bearable. Even pleasant, in an odd way! Yeah, it was hot, but it wasn't a sweltering, "sweating on your back, butt and undercarriage, with drenched armpits as a special bonus" kind of situation. Ugh!
:p
You felt, instead, merely "pretty warm". But I never felt like "aarghhh...I need 10 showers now...I'm NASTY!". Complete night-and-day difference.
Humidity just makes me want to lay down and give up on life itself.
:D
98% humidity ain't no thang to Houston. It will be 100% for most of July and August. Luckily I won't have to endure that for another year.
Austin will keep with Houston in the high 90s/low 100s temperature wise, but will only be in the 50-70% humidity range. :)
Southern/Central Texas is really really hot.
i used to work in texas, and i remember coming out to my car and and having to wait about 2 minutes just to get in.
my first trip would be to the circleK (which they have in china, to my delight) and get two coors for the drive to the hotel. (you could do that at the time)
once i left some zaentner's daughter (you eaten there? abilene and san angelo?) leftovers in a rental for three days and had to return it because the smell was too overpowering.
just thinking about those ice cold coors (they kept them on ice in a big tub by the door) and zaentner's daughter makes me want to get on a plane.
not to mention austin, the hill country and other than Houstonians (too many transplants from the east) the nicest people in the world.
I lived on a USAF base in Big Spring, Texas when I was a kid (the base is now closed, I think). Man it was hot in the summer. I remember prickly brown grass under my feet and dust storms where the dust would get into everything - including my nose and mouth – no matter what I did.
I don’t much care for the extremes of weather of Ottawa: it sometimes gets too cold to go out in winter or too humid to be comfortable in mid-summer. Otherwise, the weather here is ok. I especially like to be able to skate outdoors in winter when the temp is cold, but not bone-chilling.
The best weather in the world, evaluated on a year-round basis? I don’t know. Each place has its drawbacks and advantages. I’d guess maybe parts of California, areas of coastal Australia, or perhaps Bermuda. The south of France would be ok as well. I’d say Spain too, but I have a friend who lived there who said that a hot dry wind that blows pretty regularly during the summer nearly drives her nuts.
pscates2.0
2004-06-02, 11:45
The best weather in the world, evaluated on a year-round basis? I don’t know.
I don't know about "the world", but I'd have to say that San Diego resides in the top ten, at least for the U.S.
:)
Rained about 20-30 days a year (if that!), mostly in December and January.
Out of 365 days, it seemed to be crisp blue sunny skies, white high puffy clouds, ZERO humidity, wonderful breezes and temperatures in the mid-70's for 320 of them!
Crisp in the fall, kinda chilly and good "sweater weather". Summers (coastal, anyway) never too hot and winters never too cold. Things just seemed to hover in that nice 55-85 degree zone, year-round. There were exceptions, sure...but never too many or for too long!
Always sunny, always windy. Never humid.
Paradise. Absolute paradise.
thegelding
2004-06-02, 12:58
I’d say Spain too, but I have a friend who lived there who said that a hot dry wind that blows pretty regularly during the summer nearly drives her nuts.
funny to hear that...i have never been to spain, but i have been told that it has very similar climate, vegatation etc as new mexico (similar or same plants, terrain, what grows there grows well here and vice versa)...we have the winds too...but not in summer...we get them in the spring (i never tell people to visit in the spring)...we talk about the spring winds like this: "ah, i see the winds are back"...then..."boy those damn winds sure are blowing"...then after a month of winds almost everyday and night, "those goddamn winds are driving me freakin crazy"....
of course we didn't get much wind this spring for some reason (not complaining though)
in santa monica where i was raised we had great weather (too many people though...but this was the 60's before the rush to cali)...almost all the wind blew off the ocean and was nice...but sometimes the wind would blow from east to west and we would get the winds blowing off the mojave desert...called them santana winds (devil winds)...those were hot days
as for san diego, yes, nice weather...too many humans
g
I don't know about "the world", but I'd have to say that San Diego resides in the top ten, at least for the U.S.
:)
.
we vacationed in san diego about four or five years ago and it was overcast and rainy the whole week.
a lady that cut my hair blamed it on coastal eddy's (whatever that is) and la ni–a.
it never really rained, more like mist. it was in march or april i believe.
san diego is still pretty nice with a mist and all.
It feels like it's been raining here in Michigan for a damned month now. The rivers are peaked, flooding is going on everywhere...and worse of all I haven't even got my R75 out of storage because it's been so damn wet. :(
I LOVE the weather in the SouthWest. Back in my youth I lived in Moab for a little bit. Loved it. Miss it. The most beautiful country on earth, imo.
After Moab I moved to Austin for a few years (missed the 'city' life, I guess). The weather was usually great, but like groverat said, when it got muggy and hot....DAMN! Nearly intolerable, and swimming only seemed to soak up water into your skin...to be released en masse throughout the rest of the day.
Come to think of it, I really liked the summers in Boulder. Great city and sights, just too many damn 'trustafarians*' to make living there tolerable.
*hippies living off mommy and daddy's cash.
Windswept
2004-06-02, 13:40
I love San Diego. I used to rent a cottage in Pacific Beach and a little place in La Jolla. I'd stay a week or two. The PB cottage was 1/2 block from the ocean; the one in LJ was about 50 yards from the park at La Jolla Cove. Too wonderful.
The San Diego area is so mellow when you spend most of your time *off* the freeways, out of traffic, and just hang out in the beach areas (NOT Mission Beach!) for grocery shopping, cafe's, etc.
The weather is blissful, the people are laid-back. The general area is crowded, but if you pick a niche and spend most of your time there, the ambience is just divine, imo.
Fellowship
2004-06-02, 14:04
Crazy Texas Weather Pics (http://homepage.mac.com/fellowship/PhotoAlbum58.html)
Fellows
I think that this thread should get back on topic and continue its discuss of gelding’s penis.
-----
Cool pics of the weather in Texas though, Fellowship. I remember having tornados in springtime in the few years I lived in Big Spring as a boy. The whole family piled into the bathroom - on the theory that this was the heaviest room in the house, and therefore the least likely to be sucked up. I remember the power going out and my dad standing beside the bathtub with his big old battery-powered radio, listening for the all-clear. A distinct early memory for me (I was 4-5 at the time).
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