On Naming [Archive] - AppleNova Forums

Robo

2010-02-14, 14:50

So, my stepsister (whom I have only met once) just had her second child, who is named Ariel.

Now.

To 99% of the people out there, hearing that name will make them think of a little mermaid. To the other 1%, it will make them think of a terrible font. It's just not a very good name for a girl.

And it's a horrible name for a boy.

But alas, young Ariel will have to bear this horrible burden throughout his life. I joke, but it actually is really sad, because he will be teased to death about it, and it's not like his parents don't know that, they just don't care. They apparently heard that it was a Hebrew name meaning "lion of God" and were smitten. (They're not at all Jewish, in any sense, but they are obsessed with going to Jerusalem and waiting for the world to end. No, I'm not kidding. But I digress.)

They will apparently pronounce it "Arr (like a pirate)-iel," but it's not like anyone reading the name will know that. They'll read the name and think it's for a girl.* And if Arr-iel was the intention, why not just name him Ari? Ari is an awesome name. It means "lion," "eagle," and "brave." It's awesome in three languages, and it's not mermaidish at all. But I digress.

(I mean no offense to any male Ariels in the audience. I'm sorry, for...everything you must have gone through.)

Anyway, rant over. :) I was thinking about naming, and how some people (*cough*) take it too lightly. Fellow writers, how do you name your characters? Parents, how do you name your kids? Animal people, your pets?

I'm horrible at naming. I need to name the lead character of the piece I'm working on now. He has a last name and so far everybody either calls him by that or "Doctor," which actually wouldn't change even if he had a first name. Only one character calls him by his first name, and only (I think) once, but that actually makes it harder because it has to be a really good name because it will be in the spotlight for that one sentence. I was thinking something starting with S, but I already have two S'es. And it has to sound old. Any ideas? :o

*I know it was originally a guy's name. That doesn't matter. I'm normally a staunch defender against the girlification of guy's names (Madison for a girl? That doesn't even make sense!) but in the case of Ariel (like Lindsay and Ashley before it), it's just time to let it go. They have the mermaid, they win. :p

Maciej

2010-02-14, 16:36

I think you've stumbled upon the quintessential problem with having kids. I do work in pediatrics, and I have seen hundreds of kids who are going to hate their parents.

Anyway, I wish I could offer up some help here. I usually just don't name whatever it is that I'm naming until something I like pops into my head. But it certainly can be a lot of pressure with something like a baby.

Seven.

Noel

2010-02-14, 16:59

You should bring back the Latin name "Sextus". In light of the "sexting" phenomenon, it would have entirely new meaning.

Robo

2010-02-14, 19:56

A behindthename.com commenter wants to name their son Tristan and their daughter Isolde. Um, ew.

Bryson

2010-02-14, 20:08

A distant relative of mine just named their new son Talon Jedi. True story.

I think that may technically count as child abuse.

joveblue

2010-02-14, 20:18

I heard of someone ("friend of a friend of a friend" kinda thing) who named their kid Le-an. OK, kinda crap with a pointless hyphen in the middle, but whatever. The worst bit is how it's supposed to be pronounced: "lee dash an". :err: :err: :err:

pscates2.0

2010-02-14, 20:22

As someone who has owned two cats named Sweetpea and Porkchop, I might not be the person best suited to participate...because if I had a son, I'd name him Fonzie.

:p

Being serious for two seconds, I've often thought about daughter names (because I don't want a little punk son to deal with... :D ). But if I had a girl(s), I've said for years that I'd name them Lucinda and Gillian. Gillian Elizabeth (just so I could call her GillyBeth).

And, yes...after Lucinda Williams and Gillian Anderson (or Welch, if I'm feeling musical).

:)

But I don't have kids, and it's not in the cards. So I'll just have to pretend.

But if I ever get another cat, I will get two girl cats and apply the above...about as close as I'm ever gonna get, I'm sure.

drewprops

2010-02-14, 20:27

pscates2.0

2010-02-14, 20:33

I do like those old-timey sounding names for guys. Something you'd hear in an old cowboy or Civil War movie or novel. I think those are cool.

Wyatt? Virgil? Morgan? (see where I'm headed here?)

;)

I always thought "Jasper" was cool too. Call him Jas for short.

That was the name of Kevin Costner's son in "JFK", and I always liked the way it sounded.

curiousuburb

2010-02-14, 20:56

By "old" do you mean "old-fashioned" or that the name should connote the idea that the doctor is old?

Abe
Jacob
Malcom
Varner
Childress
Weller
Poston
Lenard

As far as naming children go, my suggestion is

First Name : Fun and "Popular" Young Name

Middle Name : Something they can "grow into" when they reach adulthood

Be sure to provide a CLEAR PATH to adulthood.

...

Dude, if you want to go Biblically old, you've got to include Methuselah. Just think of the lulz as you get fake id.

If you want stick with secular names and have several kids planned, you could do Permian, Jurassic, Cretaceous, etc. :p

Capella

2010-02-14, 21:05

When character naming, it depends on what I'm writing. Fantasy names and sci-fi names can be wildly different, after all.

A few friends and I have been playing the newly reborn (again) Myst Online (http://mystonline.com/en/play/) (or Uru). We've been creating characters to be in-character and giving them separate identities, and what we do is hit up Behind the Name, and click to the right sex, and then scroll around until we get something that sounds great. Surnames are harder, so I go for a US Census list and then jump to random points and look for stuff.

drewprops

2010-02-14, 21:37

I was once given a copy of a manuscript written by a friend of a friend. It was schlocky, inept fantasy stuff, and the author was unable to create a consistent palette of names. The story was horrible, but the names were so bad I had to hand it back in.

Naming is Very Important.

...

Robo

2010-02-17, 17:17

By "old" do you mean "old-fashioned" or that the name should connote the idea that the doctor is old?

Old as in old-fashioned. Really old-fashioned. Though the doctor is, well, technically old. But not really. It's a long story, literally.

I subscribe to the "Sherlock Holmes" theory of naming, in that for a recognizable name you can pair a quirky first name with a common surname, or an unusual surname with a common first name, but you can't have both be quirky or else you'll end up with something ridiculous, like "Methuselah Honeysuckle" or "Lavender Gooms." The character's surname is typical (though still "own-able"), and especially since he usually goes by "Doctor" I think I could go pretty unusual with the first name, though I'd like for it to stay within the Germanic language family, for consistency (that includes English).

So, yeah, it's hard.

I'm a stickler for good titles, too. If I'm doing a series, I'll say something like "the titles all must be in iambic dimeter, they must progress in alphabetic order and they must whenever possible be references to songs from the eighties or newer." (Said series takes place much earlier, but I dig the anachronism.) This isn't as hard as it sounds, as there are lots of thematically appropriate eighties songs and titles derived from songs will obviously fit some form of poetic meter. The real challenge is alphabetic progression, especially if it's a very long series (it is), and also keeping titles from sounding formulaic even though they pretty much are (this means avoiding "The Blank of Blank" titles whenever possible -- I hate those, but of course said title scheme is designed to practically ensure them).

So, uh, yeah. If there's anything I obsess over in my stories, it's titles and names. I don't do "world-building," I don't write novels just to show how much I researched about X, but I do obsess over titles and names (and book design, but that's neither here nor there).

Iago

2010-02-17, 17:24

A behindthename.com commenter wants to name their son Tristan and their daughter Isolde. Um, ew.

:lol: That's ruined my favourite aria forever. Fuck you.

Luca

2010-02-17, 17:34

:lol: That's ruined my favourite aria forever. Fuck you.

I can virtually guarantee that at least someone has named their kids Belle and Sebastian.

Robo

2010-02-17, 17:35

:lol: That's ruined my favourite aria forever. Fuck you.

:lol: I'm glad somebody got it. That commenter totally squicked me out. And I am not easily squicked.

To anyone who didn't get it: it would be like naming your son "Romeo" and your daughter "Juliet." Not cool. :wtf:

Robo

2010-02-17, 17:45

I can virtually guarantee that at least someone has named their kids Belle and Sebastian.

In English-speaking regions, the name "Sebastian" is a bit over-the-top for a person, like it's trying way too hard. But I'm sure for some that would only increase it's appeal...subtlety is not a hallmark of the "16 and Pregnant" set.

It's good for a pet though. ;) It could be okay for a character, I guess, but it was totally ruined for me when a behindthename.com commenter said that they liked it because it had a perfect nickname in "Sebby." :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

If I were named Sebastian, I would murder the first person who called me "Sebby," and no jury would convict me. (Unless it was comprised entirely of behindthename commenters.)

joveblue

2010-02-17, 18:05

In English-speaking regions, the name "Sebastian" is a bit over-the-top for a person,
That's a very sweeping generalisation if I ever did see one...

Robo

2010-02-17, 18:08

That's a very sweeping generalisation if I ever did see one...

Huh? :confused: It's an opinion. Just like "the name Jack is sexy" or "the name Peyton is too trendy" or "the name Le-an has a pointless hyphen." I don't recall claiming that my opinion was shared by everyone (in fact, I specifically mentioned that it wasn't...?).

curiousuburb

2010-02-17, 18:22

Barnaby Twiggerton-Piglet would be silly. ;)

Not violating Rule #1... technically :p

joveblue

2010-02-17, 18:22

Oh, I thought you meant that was the view of English-speaking regions. Sorry.

Robo

2010-02-17, 18:49

Oh, I thought you meant that was the view of English-speaking regions. Sorry.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I probably worded that ambiguously. I meant that was my opinion when people in English-speaking regions named their kids Sebastian. Obviously people in French-speaking territories would view it in a different way (surprisingly, or not, the name is less common in France).

To me it just seems like an over-the-top, impractical name a young parent would latch on to because it sounded "fancy." For some reason, some lower-class people love giving their kids the most pretentious or stereotypically upper-class names possible, so a "regal" name can become "trashy" very quickly. We saw that with Sebastian, but it's unlikely the French did, so they'd view it differently -- that's what I was trying to say.

We're seeing this right now with Xavier. I knew a teenage single mother who named her son Xavier because it was fancy and exotic-sounding. (Of course she pronounced the "X.") The contrast between the names "status" and hers makes the name seem gauche. And exotic it's not; it's currently the 71st most common name for a boy in the US, ahead of, oh, Adam. A year prior it was 68th. This behindthename.com commenter sort of sums up popular sentiment:

"Xavier is my 2nd son's name. I love this name. To me, this name is regal. It's elegant and modern. For those of you who hate it, you have no taste."

Now, this is just me going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing "carolina812r" isn't exactly known as a paragon of upper-class taste herself, or she probably wouldn't have given her son such a painfully "regal" name. And the defensiveness! (She pronounces the "X" too.)

Of course, this is completely removed from the name's perception in France. One of my favorite French musicians is Xavier de Rosnay of Justice, the name doesn't seem gauche or "trying too hard" on him, since he is actually from France, and it is likely the name has completely different connotations there.

The lesson: Don't name your kids ridiculously upper-class names if you're not. The effect is grotesque. (And if you're named Xavier, don't pronounce the "X". ;))

ezkcdude

2010-02-17, 19:59

To 99% of the people out there, hearing that name will make them think of a little mermaid. To the other 1%, it will make them think of a terrible font. It's just not a very good name for a girl.

I guess I'm the other other 1%.

http://www.sats-aerials.co.uk/images/aerial2.jpg

joveblue

2010-02-17, 20:11

Well, it's not pronounced "Avier", so I guess you do have to pronounce the X. You just have to pronounce it as a Z.

I don't mind these names at all.

joveblue

2010-02-17, 20:25

It's when you get trailer trash with names like Mercedes and Lexus that's really disgusting...

ezkcdude

2010-02-17, 21:37

It's when you get trailer trash with names like Mercedes and Lexus that's really disgusting...

Mercedes used to be considered a classy name. I think. When I was a kid, we lived in an extremely affluent part of the Bay Area. This was the early 80's. A neighbor of ours had two kids that me and my brother used to play with. Their names were Mercedes and Sterling. :)

709

2010-02-17, 21:48

So, my stepsister (whom I have only met once) just had her second child, who is named Ariel.

Now.

To 99% of the people out there, hearing that name will make them think of a little mermaid. To the other 1%, it will make them think of a terrible font.
I guess I'm the other other 1%.

http://www.sats-aerials.co.uk/images/aerial2.jpgI guess I'm the .0001% that immediately thought of the planet Simon takes River to figure out what was going on in her head, and the time when "the money was too good" for Jayne not to take. :(

bassplayinMacFiend

2010-02-18, 07:19

I admit it, I thought of Princess Ariel from "Thundarr The Barbarian". Still, I've known two guys named Kim, two guys named Leslie and my brother-in-law had his named legally changed from "Robin" to "Rob" because of the crap he went through growing up.

Guess that's why I went with Benjamin for my son. Good solid name and no gender confusion a la The Man In Black's "A Boy Named Sue".

drewprops

2010-02-18, 08:03

I thought of the girl who played the live-action Dairy Wench in one of our videos, as her name is Ariel (and she was on that makeover show last year)

...

Wyatt

2010-02-18, 08:35

I thought of the girl who played the live-action Dairy Wench in one of our videos, as her name is Ariel (and she was on that makeover show last year)

...
I think I saw that one. Has she stuck with it?

billybobsky

2010-02-18, 11:01

I didn't think little mermaid or the font (which is Arial), but of the angle...

of doom... aka destructive wrath. perhaps because of reading paradise lost late one night in high school.

hmm.

I think it's a kick ass name for a boy in this regard.

Kickaha

2010-02-18, 11:09

Is the angle of doom acute or obtuse?

curiousuburb

2010-02-27, 10:57

"Most Unfortunate Names" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7909561.stm)

My name was Susan Frame. I am a lawyer. I met and married Robert who is a banker. His surname is Mee. Now we are Sue Mee, a lawyer, and Rob Mee, a banker - ironic? I have taken no end of stick for this, believe me.

hflomberg

2010-02-27, 12:43

My name is Howard, most people call me Howie - I HATE that name! I tried to use my middle name, Paul, once, but I forgot to answer to it.

hflomberg

2010-02-27, 12:45

And I named my two david and deborah. Of course David hates his name?

Naderfan

2010-02-27, 14:41

Coming up with a name for our son was probably one of the hardest decisions we ever had to make. Seriously, I think that should be a part of pre-marriage counseling: "If you have kids, what do you want to name them?" My husband very much wanted an extremely rare name - the problem was, the things he was picking were so out there that I knew they'd condemn our son to a lifetime of misery. We finally found a good compromise, but there were some tense moments.

709

2010-02-27, 21:48

My grandfather was named Adam, for a short spell. His mother and father got crushed by a train. One of those car on the tracks things. Only he survived.

So it goes.

His adoptive mother changed his name to Gerald.

Ugh.

To be continued......

pscates2.0

2010-02-28, 09:32

"Most Unfortunate Names" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7909561.stm)
Originally Posted by comments to article
My name was Susan Frame. I am a lawyer. I met and married Robert who is a banker. His surname is Mee. Now we are Sue Mee, a lawyer, and Rob Mee, a banker - ironic? I have taken no end of stick for this, believe me.

...and if she went with the hyphenated thing ("Hillary Rodham-Clinton", "Meredith Baxter-Birney", etc.), she would be "...Frame Mee", another odd name for someone working the law profession.

:)

Kickaha

2010-02-28, 10:53

My wife and I settled on "Hannah Morgan" about 12 years ago for a daughter's name... and then the Hannah Montana craze hit. Thank god we don't have any kids yet. :P

For some reason she's not thrilled with my suggestion for a boy's name: Raleigh Hall. I can't imagine why.

Alex London

2010-03-01, 05:15

Our two children are adopted so we all have to live with the choices of their slightly drug-addled birth parents. My son destested his made up name and reverted it to a recognisable root that is actually quite cool. Before he did this their names rhymed! Wtf.
I know of a child of a builder who is called Iris, her surname is Jay. In-jokes should be banned. Ditto, the boy called Max whose middle name really is Danger.

billybobsky

2010-03-01, 10:16

my parents unfortunately gave me a scottish first and middle name. we are not scottish and I get odd looks whenever i tell people my full name...

Luca

2010-03-01, 11:23

my parents unfortunately gave me a scottish first and middle name. we are not scottish and I get odd looks whenever i tell people my full name...

Alasdair Taraghlan Hernandez?

sebatlh

2010-03-01, 11:55

In English-speaking regions, the name "Sebastian" is a bit over-the-top for a person, like it's trying way too hard. But I'm sure for some that would only increase it's appeal...subtlety is not a hallmark of the "16 and Pregnant" set.

It's good for a pet though. ;) It could be okay for a character, I guess, but it was totally ruined for me when a behindthename.com commenter said that they liked it because it had a perfect nickname in "Sebby." :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

If I were named Sebastian, I would murder the first person who called me "Sebby," and no jury would convict me. (Unless it was comprised entirely of behindthename commenters.)

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Living in Sweden, does that help?

/Sebastian, who is sometimes called "Sebbe"

Even more funny (now, not when I was younger ;) ), my middle name is "Molke" which everyone goes "wtf is that even a name?" over :)

Robo

2010-03-01, 13:16

:lol:

Like I said, I'm sure things are different there. Here, though, it's basically like naming your kid "RefinedandEuropean," which of course means it's quickly becoming a favorite of the lowerclass.

I've toyed with the name in fiction before, but its connotations have changed so much in the US that I really couldn't use it for that character anymore. It's endearing on anyone actually European, but like Xavier, has become an all-too-common "exotic" choice for people who...aren't.

Sorry, I can never get behind a pet form, though. :lol:

Molke is cool. It doesn't have any faux pretension around it, and I think middle names can be a little unusual. Everybody in the US loves Rose for some reason.

Now that I've offended absolutely everybody... :lol:

evan

2010-03-01, 14:47

&rew.

Robo

2010-03-01, 14:52

&rew.

M@.

Luca

2010-03-01, 15:01

Ma~

$ (Bill?)

Iago

2010-03-01, 15:20

* the gaul

billybobsky

2010-03-01, 17:40

Alasdair Taraghlan Hernandez?
Not quite so Gaelic. More Norman. Mixed with a Germanic last name, though not of likely German origin...

evan

2010-03-02, 00:03

Ma~

winrar

sebatlh

2010-03-02, 14:41

Roboman:
Heh yeah, I can imagine how Sebastian is "RefinedAndEuropean". But even here it has a little bit of a "trying too hard" feel to it.
Shoot, every parent is trying to hard nowdays trying to find old and unique names. My sister named her kids Astrid and Irma. Both seem common now. Other common kids names are Alva, Malva and all kinds of weird names that could just as well come from a Tolkien book :rolleyes:

This list scares me :) (toplist of most common names given to newborn kids)
http://www.alltforforaldrar.se/kul/namntoppen/2009
"Nova"?
"Neo"?
:wtf:

Kickaha

2010-03-02, 14:44

Hey! Gwyneth Paltrow should have used that as a middle name for her kid.

Apple Nova Paltrow.

Has a nice ring, don't ya think?

Just sayin'.

curiousuburb

2010-03-02, 14:46

Nova FTW!

And you might even tie in an anti-obesity message to keep them below the Chandrasekhar limit (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/stars/chandrasekhar-limit/). ;)

Luca

2010-03-02, 15:24

Malva

Mulva? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Junior_Mint#Mulva)

Foj

2010-03-02, 16:00

Is the angle of doom acute or obtuse?

I always thought it was a reflex. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGwpunXVDp0)

Wyatt

2010-03-02, 18:32

Nova FTW!

Yes. My wife wants another kid. I'm going to tell her I'll only consent if we can use the name Nova. :lol:

Robo

2010-03-02, 19:34

I'm horrible at naming. I need to name the lead character of the piece I'm working on now. He has a last name and so far everybody either calls him by that or "Doctor," which actually wouldn't change even if he had a first name. Only one character calls him by his first name, and only (I think) once, but that actually makes it harder because it has to be a really good name because it will be in the spotlight for that one sentence. I was thinking something starting with S, but I already have two S'es. And it has to sound old. Any ideas? :o

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I found the perfect name and it is so perfect and it actually ties in perfectly with the existing series that the piece is tangentially related to and it fits into that plot and it is so perfect OMG.

I can't tell you what it is. It would spoil the whole thing. And I have to make sure it works. But I think it will.

OMG, it's, like, a fitting name for a hard-to-name guy, and a massive plot eureka moment all in one. OMG OMG OMG.