View Full Version : Dashboard: Poorly Implemented?
SonOfSylvanus
2005-01-20, 13:00
Speculation? General Discussion? Meh...
Widgets are a great idea. Combining widgets with Exposé is a superb idea. So, I can't wait for Dashboard (http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html).
http://images.apple.com/uk/macosx/tiger/images/indexdashboard06282004.jpg
But, since the moment I saw Steve demo Dashboard's new features at MWSF2005, I have had my reservations over how it is implemented:
- I am not sure that the "Widget Bar" is so great...
Sure, all them widget icons there look cool, but I think it is confusing and inelegant to have the temporarily active Widget Bar appear below the permanent, but temporarily inactive, system Dock. Maybe this is done so that you can see on the Dock which apps are open (but wouldn't Cmd-Tab allow this)? Or maybe this is done to preserve continuity since the Dock is always viewable in Exposé view too? Whatever, together, both Widget bar and Dock take up a lot of space. And is the Widget Bar a dock anyway? Can things be dragged to it?
And from what I can make out, that G5 speed-hole background looks- well... shit. Is the Widget Bar dock background customisable?
- I don't think a "Widget Bar icon" is at all right.
Exposé is a view, and Dashboard is nothing but a 4th Exposé option in my mind. It is not an application and should not have its own icon. It should only be activated by a key combo, a hot corner or maybe a Menu Bar icon. Since it has a Dock icon, will Dashboard be accessible via Cmd-Tab? Should it be? If I Ctrl-Click on the Dashboard icon, will I get a menu like with any proper app? Why is a separate circle (with either a plus or a cross in it) used to control the Dashboard Dock? Basically, Dashboard in this incarnation is confusing the desktop metaphor.
:\
But hey, the thing is still in development! Heh. ;)
I may very well be (in fact I expect to be) completely in love with Dashboard by the time it is released as part of Tiger, but for now, I have my reservations. Does anyone else? Can Tiger developers assuage my fears (without divulging anything that they shouldn't)?
What are your thoughts on Dashboard's current implementation? Is anything missing? What would you change?
Thanks
:)
I share your skepticism about Dashboard, but I'm reserving judgment until we see something closer to the final version.
The whole "widget bar" changed completely from how it worked at last year's WWDC; so, it wouldn't surprise me to see additional changes.
BuonRotto
2005-01-20, 13:56
Yeah, first thing that stood out to me was that widget bar. My first thought was to simply list all the widgets in the Dashboard Dock icon pop-up, and maybe assign a keystroke to bring up all the widgets. Add a checkbox on each widget so the user assign which ones to keep up/pop up all the time maybe?
I agree what we see in the latest Tiger is certainly a work in progress. People on the showroom floor apparently whispered that a certain iCEO made some last miinute alterations to the Macworld builds. :)
Franz Josef
2005-01-20, 14:50
Dunno about thye details of the functionality - we'll have to wait and see. One thing I do know is that dashboard is a terrific concept. Being able to launch an icon to translate short phrases, sort out flights, check the weather, it's first rate. I'm looking forward to Tiger big time.
onlyafterdark
2005-01-20, 14:59
I also really like Dashboard (gosh, who would have thought it?). I dont really like the idea of having to click an icon on the dock everytime, but Im sure it will be customizable. But Im with Brad, things can change a lot from now until the final release.
hyperb0le
2005-01-20, 18:11
I'm pretty sure I read that the dock icon is optional, and that key-combos are still an option. I'm pretty sure the dock icon was one of Steve's last-minute additions so that the audience could see what he was doing.
I don't expect Dashboard to be much good. I felt Konfabulator was gimmicky and not very useful, so I got rid of it. My end impression was that it was best suited for things you want to display constantly on top, or on desktop - like a floating mini iTunes controller, and a info display attached to desktop. If I understand correctly, neither are doable with Dashboard. Dashboard best suits what I regarded as the most useless thing in Konfabulator widgets - small utilities that need more input than mouse pointing to work. Why aren't all these silly widgets just apps? If you need a screenful of apps to be constantly open, available, and need to be able to jump fast into them... that's a "virtual desktop". If that is what is really called for, then maybe Apple make one for real and stop inventing the wheel again as rectangular.
BarracksSi
2005-01-20, 19:43
Why should I need to run iCal, Address Book, the Calculator, DeltaFlights.com (made it up), and a bunch of other apps all the time when I could get the same job done with less system resources?
I like it.
By the name only, I thought Dashboard would be like a dashboard*–*there would be an odometer (how fast your processor is going) and a temperature gauge (how hot your processor is getting).
I'd want to know if my computer were going to catch on fire.
defaultmike
2005-01-20, 19:59
Dashboard is looking cooler in its utilitarian purpose as far as I'm concerned. I mean, from the widgets I saw, the most useful would be the addressbook, iTunes, calculator, calendar, and the translator... man, but that freaking bar thing... talk about a bad idea, it's just plain ugly. they better do something about that...
Someone with the developer kit please write up a widget for tracking your powerbooks temperature. It has the sensors. Imagine something analog like on real dashboards!
Temperature Monitor. Available at versiontracker.com. :)
CitizenTony
2005-01-20, 22:16
I think it will be a nice addition for myself. As it stands now, Expose makes the 12" pb so much more useful when not pluged into a bigger screen. If dashboard can be pulled up by one function key, and it has useful widgets; I'll use it all of the time.
morningstarrising
2005-01-20, 22:51
I expect to see alot more big words around message boards when dashboard comes out...
The current MacWorld SF 2005 Dashboard implementation gets HOM's UI Sucktastic Award®
The guys at Cupertino should be proud.
From Apple's Dashboard Preview PDF (http://images.apple.com/macosx/tiger/pdf/Dashboard_Tech_Preview_20050111.pdf)
Exchanging information with applications Many widgets allow you to cut and paste or drag and drop information so you don’t have to retype it. Since there are no menus in Dashboard, simply select the information you want to exchange in the widget and use the keyboard shortcut Command-C to copy it. Then move to the other widget, application, or document and type Command-V to paste the data.
This just sucks. Now two ways about it. In any application when you invoke a keyboard command the appropriate menu or window widget highlights to indicate where the menu/widget is. There are tons of people that don't know or refuse to use keyboard commands. Limiting text exchange it them is just bad.
drewprops
2005-01-20, 23:27
Can somebody write an AppleNova thread tracker widget?
Well the impression we have now are just based off a development build, a product that (hopefully) won't be released until it is finished. With that said I would welcome Dashboard, preferably sans icon, with open arms.
I always find myself:
- Using Calculator; I'm bad at math, especially certain currency/metric conversions.
- Using iCal; not so much to add things but to see what I've already set.
- Using Stickies; to store to-dos, meeting summaries, scratch info.
- Using Sherlock; because, unfortunately, I can't read Japanese. Or any other language beside English. :\
- Using Dictionary.com; because I need help with English haha ;)
All these things take dock space when opened; most of them are needed repeatedly at odd intervals. Instead of leaving these little things to Exposé I hide them. Having all these on their own layer would help me out greatly.
Addressbook and application is general aren't a problem since I've been using LaunchBar for years but Dashboard will make using a Mac even more productive then it already is. Is it WWDC yet?! :lol:
Can somebody write an AppleNova thread tracker widget?
An automated RSS feed on new threads would also be helpfup. Unless I missed that somewhere?
Mr Beardsley
2005-01-21, 09:12
The new widget dock made a lot of sense to me. You launch your normal apps using the dock, and now you have a widget dock to launch all your mini widget apps. It seems pretty consistent.
Also I think Dashboard is a great idea. Its a good little sandbox for a lot of the haxie type programs to live. Weather and other such goodness won't end up in the menu bar, and you won't have a huge set of menu items up there. The menu bar was starting to look like the system tray on windows.
BuonRotto
2005-01-21, 10:12
I think the concept is a big improvement over Sherlock and even Watson. The convenience is a big plus. I don't see a huge Dashbaord culture develping though. I think some people are ready to write big, complex apps for this thing, when it's meant to be a bunch of little odds and ends.
Does drag-and-drop work with Dashboard widgets? Ideally, you owuld be able to select the results from Calculator or AddressBook, drag them off, Expose to your window and drop them in place. There are always wrinkles in that case, but a way of getting drag-n-drop into windows or onto the desktop as clippings would be important I would think.
I also really like Dashboard (gosh, who would have thought it?). I dont really like the idea of having to click an icon on the dock everytime, but Im sure it will be customizable. But Im with Brad, things can change a lot from now until the final release.
It says you can press the F12 key to bring them up, so you don't need to click on the icon every time.
I think some people are ready to write big, complex apps for this thing, when it's meant to be a bunch of little odds and ends.I see this distinction as key.
My take on dashboard:
At first I was anti-dashboard. I felt that we didn't need another category of objects behaving differently. Why not just use normal apps?
But I've warmed up to the concept recently. I see widgets as being readily available quick reference tools. If this is the case, then there seems to be room in the computing experience for them.
Few users spend long stretches of time using a dictionary, weather map, flight status, clock, or stock ticker. Instead, these are things that are briefly consulted or interacted with and then put away when the user returns to their primary task.
Widgets should provide functionality used during the middle of another task. They shouldn't be something that you spend hours using.
So why base this thing on webcore instead of just making them normal applications? This took a bit of pondering. Perhaps it is because the web was already functioning as our quick reference tool. Need to look up something in the middle of another task? Chances are, you looked it up in a web browser. Apple is leveraging all the legacy code and skills of web developeres.
Absolutely brilliant is my current take on Dashboard's implementation.
Design on the otherhand? I agree with many others here, the widget bar needs more apple polish.
I don't see a huge Dashbaord culture develping though.
:\
I may be in the minority, but I am waiting to 'switch back' from PC-hell until the graphics card specs for Tiger are finalized. I must know which machine to buy as I desperately want all of the eye candy in dashboard to work right.
Call me an oddball, but it's a big deal to me! ;)
BarracksSi
2005-01-21, 19:51
Widgets should provide functionality used during the middle of another task. They shouldn't be something that you spend hours using.
You got it.
Another way to think of widgets is to equate them with things that always sit on a desk. Or, well, things that sat on a desk in every office ten years ago... ;)
You've got your Rolodex, calendar, phone book, dictionary, style book (you journalist types know what I mean), notepad, calculator, maybe even a conversion chart, and some other stuff. You never use them for more than a minute at a time, but they're so invaluable that you need them to be easily accessible.
NosferaDrew
2005-01-21, 20:16
It says you can press the F12 key to bring them up, so you don't need to click on the icon every time.
You also have to hit the fn key on portables since F12 is also the eject key.
I hope it's ends up like Exposé in that it allows you to use one key or mouse button to enable/disable it.
I may be in the minority, but I am waiting to 'switch back' from PC-hell until the graphics card specs for Tiger are finalized. I must know which machine to buy as I desperately want all of the eye candy in dashboard to work right.
Call me an oddball, but it's a big deal to me!
Hey Oddball! (:), j/k)
If you're talking about an iBook or a mini, there are some hardware requirements to get that cool ripple effect in Dashboard - 64MB vid card maybe? I know 32MB won't cut it, but you get all the functionality of Dashboard and 90% of the iCandy. :D
BlueRabbit
2005-01-21, 23:57
You also have to hit the fn key on portables since F12 is also the eject key.
The 12" PB, at least, has separate Eject and F12 keys. However, I can imagine it being easy to accidentally eject a CD while triggering Dashboard, since they're so close together. :\
SonOfSylvanus
2005-01-22, 05:46
However, I can imagine it being easy to accidentally eject a CD while triggering Dashboard, since they're so close together. :\
I don't think that that is the case, because in my experience on my PowerBook, the eject key requires a press-and-hold to eject a disk, while the exposé buttons need just a quick press.
But in inexperienced hands, yeah, I'm sure that could happen (though applications do not allow a DVD movie or SVCD to be ejected while in use AFAIK).
BarracksSi
2005-01-22, 08:36
I'm sure you could choose a different F-key. My F8 is unused right now.
The current MacWorld SF 2005 Dashboard implementation gets HOM's UI Sucktastic Award®
The guys at Cupertino should be proud.
From Apple's Dashboard Preview PDF (http://images.apple.com/macosx/tiger/pdf/Dashboard_Tech_Preview_20050111.pdf)
This just sucks. Now two ways about it. In any application when you invoke a keyboard command the appropriate menu or window widget highlights to indicate where the menu/widget is. There are tons of people that don't know or refuse to use keyboard commands. Limiting text exchange it them is just bad.
copy and paste can be done on the keyboard or in the menu...so wtf?
copy and paste can be done on the keyboard or in the menu...so wtf?The point is that there is no active menubar when Dashboard is invoked.
BarracksSi
2005-01-23, 07:38
In any application when you invoke a keyboard command the appropriate menu or window widget highlights to indicate where the menu/widget is.
That may be, but it still doesn't give a clue about what keyboard command has just been pressed. There are seven keyboard shortcuts in Safari's View menu, but the only thing that highlights is the word "View", and it only does it for a split second anyway.
Besides, copy & paste are such universal keyboard commands that not having the word "File" blink is no big deal. I'll bet drag & drop is pretty thoroughly implemented, too.
That may be, but it still doesn't give a clue about what keyboard command has just been pressed. There are seven keyboard shortcuts in Safari's View menu, but the only thing that highlights is the word "View", and it only does it for a split second anyway.
Besides, copy & paste are such universal keyboard commands that not having the word "File" blink is no big deal. I'll bet drag & drop is pretty thoroughly implemented, too.
True. But it provides the visual clue to what you are doing and it lets you know that the copy (insert keyboard command with no immediate visual notice that the operation completed.
Not only that but there are users, my mother for one, that doesn't use keyboard commands. She always goes to the menus.
I think Dashboard looks *great*. Love the widget bar -- I think it's visually very clear what's going on there. As for the icon in the Dock, I suspect it's just another way to invoke it, other than F12 (or whatever key you choose). Just to make sure users know about it.
Copy and paste inside widgets is an interesting (and vexing) issue, though. I'd hope that Apple would add a contextual option for copy + paste, but even that's a second-rate solution. Perhaps text that's selected in Dashboard could be treated like a smart address in Mail, with clicking a little arrow next to it for a copy to clipboard option?
Anyway, the key to loving Dashboard, I think, is to understand that it's very much it's own thing... kind of a UI playground (or vacation, if you will) for Apple to try some new, strikingly minimal concepts + ideas. Does it excuse Apple's other inconsistencies throughout the OS? No. Is it OK to have a single, user-invokable place for lots of little widgets to live, that work in a different but clear and self-explanatory way? Sure. In fact I think it's going to be a blast.
dont know if anyone has said this yet but...
to remove the dashboard icon just drag the icon off the dock. it runs without it. to bring it back (why?) drag it from the apps folder to the dock again.
pilot1129
2005-05-12, 09:16
You can just remove the dashboard button from the menu bar. I did that just because i'm a minimalist. Now i have a hotcorner configured to bring up dahboard. its all in system prefs
You can just remove the dashboard button from the menu barDo you mean the dock?
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