View Full Version : My Traitor Moment (Windows Phone)
So I recently picked up a Nokia Lumia 800 (Reason I didn't get the 900 is the 800 is a stop-gap until the white 900 comes out)
Anyways, I figured I'd share my thoughts on it since I've had an iPhone since they came out, and concurrently owned a Blackberry for brief stints. I've limited my Android experiences because I just hate the platform. I gave it an honest shot, but it's just brutal. Everything feels extremely robotic, no fluidity at all, and I hate it. I just do. Did I mention I hate Android?
After playing around with the Lumia, I must say their social integration is top notch. It's tied in with Twitter, FB, LinkedIn, Windows Live, etc. I managed to get it working perfectly with my iCloud services and connected it to my Xbox.
Nokia Drive (turn-by-turn free GPS) is an awesome inclusion.
The live tiles are very cool, as is the Metro UI. I'm glad Microsoft simply didn't copy Apple this time and opted for something dramatically different. Their app store is generally full of crap, and items that border on illegal. Like people are offering up Nintendo ringtones, Duck Hunt, and a few other items. Obviously not officially sanctioned. I'm surprised it passed approval to be honest.
In the sense of feel, refinement and simplicity this might be the first phone that I'd consider close to my iPhone. I thought IDC was out to lunch when they forecast Microsoft to be a major player by 2015, now I just consider them out for coffee. I'm impressed. WP has potential and what Microsoft has said about WP8, the future looks pretty bright for them.
PS: I hate Android.
I like Windows Phone and hate Android too! :D
The Nokia 800 is a nice piece of kit. In the US you can only buy it unlocked and contract-free in an expensive bundle with a bunch of accessories at Microsoft Stores, which is sad. I'm glad to see it's getting more traction elsewhere.
The only thing that worries me with Nokia's Lumias so far has been their advertising. They seem to be directly going after the iPhone, which I'm not sure is...wise. Plus, bringing up antennagate again? Now? No actual people cared about that two years ago.
What really excites me about Windows Phone going forward is the potential to really elevate the user experience in markets where Apple isn't competing, like prepaid phones. Windows Phone feels a lot snappier than Android does on lower-end phones. There's an LG Windows Phone called the Miracle that's probably going to hit Sprint and Telus in the near future. Dumb name, middling specs, plastic back — but Sprint could probably sell it for $49 on contract and for ~$250 off contract, on Virgin Mobile or Boost. That's where things really get interesting, to me, because Windows Phone is such a clear improvement over the ~$250 Android 2.2 phones those brands currently offer.
That's why I'm not sure it's smart that Nokia seems to be directly targeting the iPhone with their ads. That doesn't seem like the most effective strategy, to me. People with iPhones have already bought into that ecosystem. I'd think it would be more effective to go where the iPhone isn't going, and go after the lower-end Android market, because that's where Android feels most sluggish and Windows Phone shines. Get all the people who are currently using their Android smartphones essentially as dumbphones and not buying into any ecosystem, and give them a meaningfully better experience...that's where I think people would really respond.
At least they got the pricing right. In the US, the Lumia 900 is just $99. It seems like all the flagship Android phones want to go toe-to-toe with the $199 and $299 iPhones on pricing, and they don't really offer a lot to make up for their much suckier ecosystems. But who needs substance when you have advertising?
"The Droid Incredible RAZR MAXX.™ You don't want a girly phone, do you?"
The Lumia series certainly looks promising and I like how it seems to retain a hint of the old Nokia hardware design language. It's almost unusual to see a high-end phone that isn't made of glass and metal, and as thin as possible.
"The Droid Incredible RAZR MAXX.™ You don't want a girly phone, do you?"
http://blog.intercom.io/whats-in-a-name/
;)
The Lumia series certainly looks promising and I like how it seems to retain a hint of the old Nokia hardware design language. It's almost unusual to see a high-end phone that isn't made of glass and metal, and as thin as possible.
And I love that the Lumias come in bright colors, too! So many Android smartphones are virtually identical black slabs, with the occasional white slab. But the Lumias come in cyan and magenta, too.
There's a purity of form in the Lumia 800 that's appealing to me. If you look at the details of most smartphones, they're a mess. It's like, why is that curve there? Why does the radius of this curve not match the radius of that curve? Why does this edge angle this way? I look at most phones and I have no idea. The designs all seem to be muddied for the sake of being muddied, like swoopy curves hastily molded into post-1998 PC towers in an attempt to make them look aerodynamic. The Lumia seems much more purposeful, to me.
I also like that the Lumia 800/900 hardware feels like it nicely complements the software. I've never used an Android phone that really felt cohesive, in that's way. They remind me of using flat, square, grey OS 9 on a bulbous, bright, glossy iMac. My current phone (an HTC HD7) feels like an Android phone running Windows Phone, in that regard — it doesn't "match" the software, it lacks that authenticity or simplicity of design. To use the highly technical term, the gently curved back doesn't "jive" with Metro. Neither do the angled edges or...anything else about the hardware, really.
I guess the best summation would be that with the Lumia 800/900, it actually feels like the hardware and software could have been made by the same company, even though they weren't.
At least they got the pricing right. In the US, the Lumia 900 is just $99. It seems like all the flagship Android phones want to go toe-to-toe with the $199 and $299 iPhones on pricing, and they don't really offer a lot to make up for their much suckier ecosystems. But who needs substance when you have advertising?
And I think the full retail is only $449 which is pretty damn good compared to other higher end devices. More expensive than most prepaid people are looking to spend but still. T-Mobile had the Lumia 710 on sale briefly for $199 which was a good deal. I picked up an HTC Arrive for my daughter a month ago to replace her horrible Optimus. She really likes it though she could do without the slider keyboard. It's a first gen device but everything works so smooth and stutter free. My Photon which is dual core still can't give me that with Android. Plus there are no force closes, no lock ups, the dialer doesn't suddenly quit, etc..
Also, I think a lot of tech bloggers are starting to really make A holes of themselves the way they review WP devices. Every Android phone they review they moan about it being skinned then they turn around and review a Windows phone and complain the OS is just like it is on every other device. Can't have it both ways.
thegeriatric
2012-04-07, 11:06
I have a Windows phone (HTC Radar) and make no apologies for it. I tried my daughters iPhone, and have to say i prefer my Windows phone.
Purchase was made after trying the iPhone!!
As for the Nokia Lumia 800, Price was the only deciding factor. Double what i paid for my HTC!!
So I hear that Mango is pretty good, but Microsoft still cant advertise worth a damn.
"The smartphone beta test is over?" Maybe for Microsoft it is, but in the real world, we're looking at iOS 6, Android 5, and BBOS 10 sometime this year. Microsoft hasn't even gotten the second version of WP out the door. (does mango count as a major revision? It gets a code name, but not an integer release number?)
So I hear that Mango is pretty good, but Microsoft still cant advertise worth a damn.
"The smartphone beta test is over?" Maybe for Microsoft it is, but in the real world, we're looking at iOS 6, Android 5, and BBOS 10 sometime this year.
You've got to start wondering if BBOS 10 will actually ship.
Microsoft hasn't even gotten the second version of WP out the door. (does mango count as a major revision? It gets a code name, but not an integer release number?)
Ah, Microsoft and their version numbers. Windows 7 is really 6.1, Windows 8 is 6.2, and Windows Phone 7.5 "Mango" is really 7.1. I kid you not.
You've got to start wondering if BBOS 10 will actually ship.
I actually think RIM should pull a Nokia. They could probably cut a pretty sweet deal with Microsoft to switch to Windows Phone 8, I mean Microsoft has the money and they know Windows Phone needs to get more traction.
I mean, it wouldn't be the ideal, but what are their alternatives? There's no real reason to believe that BB10 will get any developer support whatsoever, even if it does ship and doesn't suck.
RIM is sort of the Nokia of North America. They can make nice hardware, they just can't do software worth a damn. But as much as they're a has-been among the geek set, the BlackBerry name still has some pull with the mass market. And of course, they have a still-sizeable share of the enterprise market, for some reason. :p I think it'd be worth writing the checks, from Microsoft's perspective.
I really do feel like QNX is RIM's MeeGo, only probably even less finished. I don't think it's their future. They need software from somewhere else, and that basically means Microsoft. Windows Phone might not be lighting the sales charts on fire here in North America but it's at least it's an established ecosystem with some apps. And the fact that it runs so well on lower-speced phones will help RIM in developing markets, too.
I actually think RIM should pull a Nokia. They could probably cut a pretty sweet deal with Microsoft to switch to Windows Phone 8, I mean Microsoft has the money and they know Windows Phone needs to get more traction.
Cause that's working so great for Nokia? Not yet, anyway. I still don't understand how exactly they're supposed to differentiate themselves from the can-do-it-cheapers like HTC and Samsung. And from Microsoft's perspective, it doesn't matter!
I mean, it wouldn't be the ideal, but what are their alternatives? There's no real reason to believe that BB10 will get any developer support whatsoever, even if it does ship and doesn't suck.
RIM is sort of the Nokia of North America. They can make nice hardware, they just can't do software worth a damn. But as much as they're a has-been among the geek set, the BlackBerry name still has some pull with the mass market. And of course, they have a still-sizeable share of the enterprise market, for some reason. :p I think it'd be worth writing the checks, from Microsoft's perspective.
The problem is that "the enterprise market", which the new CEO emphasizes, is largely a myth. There are some enterprise-specific requirements, such as centralized deployment, access control, etc., but that's about it.
All sorts of reasons were given why the iPhone would never succeed in the enterprise, and they were wrong. At 1.0, it already captured the interest of alpha geeks, at 2.0, it added support for Exchange and various VPNs, and at 4.0, it added MDM. Blackberry has rendered itself irrelevant in this space through years of non-innovation, and they're not gonna catch up.
Cause that's working so great for Nokia? Not yet, anyway. I still don't understand how exactly they're supposed to differentiate themselves from the can-do-it-cheapers like HTC and Samsung. And from Microsoft's perspective, it doesn't matter!
I'm not saying it would work out great. I just think it'd be the best of their few sucky options.
Of course it would be better if they had a viable operating system of their own so they could control their own destiny with their own differentiated product, but they don't. Maybe BB10 will be that OS, but it really doesn't look like it. So what else can they do? Give up and go bankrupt? They've been trying to sell the company, and nobody's interested.
Right now I think their choices are basically A) lay off most of their software people and emerge as a smaller Windows OEM with at least a nice deal from a semi-desperate Microsoft, or B) get split up and sold off in chunks and die. I'm not convinced that BB10 is going to work for them — even assuming they're able to launch a usable OS this year, which is not at all a safe assumption, they'd still be launching their 1.0 smartphone OS in late 2012 with virtually no apps. It's just too late to try to start from square one. Hell, the jury is still out on whether it was too late for Microsoft two years ago.
Yup. Not saying there are any non-sucky options. Just not crying much of a tear over it either — from thinking Apple is lying about the iPhone's capabilities (http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/12/27/rim.thought.apple.was.lying.on.iphone.in.2007/) (arrogance) to repeating IBM's OS/2 mistake with their Android compatibility layer (no confidence in their platform) to now claiming it's all about the enterprise (that new CEO is horrible), they've proven time and again that they don't understand anything.
B) get split up and sold off in chunks and die.
"You gotta know when to fold 'em..."
Unless RIM has something seriously good up their sleeve this would be the rational option. And by something seriously good, I'm not referring to anything dreamt up in marketing.
There is a limit to how many mobile OS' that software developers will bother with and RIM is giving developers no reason why they should bother with BBOS. Especially if iOS, Android and WP7 already have taken the three upper slots. Heck, WP7 is struggling to gain traction against iOS and Android despite great reviews, so what chance does BBOS have in that context? I say none.
/captain obvious
There's always the "open" option. I don't mean open as in Android, which obviously isn't very open at all from a consumer perspective, but more as in OpenMoko, Maemo/MeeGo/Tizen, etc. If Blackberry were to go that route and combine it with some seriously good SDK, they might stand a bit of a chance.
RIM, if they can nail the next wave of products, should be able to keep their platform in the business market for the time being.
I had to consult with a business and roll out the Blackberry -> iPhone transition they wanted. It wasn't the easiest thing, the biggest problem was the employees. They had no idea what they were doing. Email transition wasn't too bad, and in general they are very happy with the switch now.
With the Lumia 800, I got it for $350, brand new in box, no contract. That's why I went with that vs. the 900 from the get-go. The more time I spend with it, the more I like it. It's a very quick system, you can't tell that spec-wise it's below the latest Android phones. It just feels much faster.
There's always the "open" option. I don't mean open as in Android, which obviously isn't very open at all from a consumer perspective, but more as in OpenMoko, Maemo/MeeGo/Tizen, etc. If Blackberry were to go that route and combine it with some seriously good SDK, they might stand a bit of a chance.
Maybe. But it really feels like the "openness" crowd has rallied behind Android, whether it's really open or not. The Linux Foundation has been trying for years to make LiMo/Moblin/MeeGo/Tizen a "thing," with very limited success. (What's next for that Voltron of operating systems, I wonder? Are they going to merge Tizen with OpenWebOS?) And I'm not sure any strategy that relies on RIM's software being "seriously good" to succeed would be wise. ;)
It's a very quick system, you can't tell that spec-wise it's below the latest Android phones. It just feels much faster.
That's one of the reasons I think Windows Phone would be the best for RIM. For all their blustering about the enterprise, the phones they're really selling are low-end Curves in markets like India – their average selling price per phone has been plummeting for years now. Their single biggest threat is losing those markets to low-end Android devices.
But Windows Phone runs much better than Android on low-end hardware. And it helps too that BlackBerries today don't feature the highest-end specs — as with Nokia, a WVGA screen would actually be an improvement over most of their current offerings. And negotiating a sweet deal with Microsoft could help them remain price-competitive with the generic Chinese OEMs that are their biggest threat in those regions.
The problem with BB10 is that it's focused on winning the battle they've already lost, at the expense of the battle they're currently fighting. They've lost the high-end North American smartphone market. Period. They need to be focused on securing a future for the prepaid and developing markets where they're still successful. How long will it take BB10-level hardware — we already know that it will require the latest dual-core processors upon launching late this year — to be available to prepaid or developing markets? In the meantime, Android will eat their lunch. Those lower-end markets might not be as sexy, but they're what RIM has, and they need to get them onto an OS with an ecosystem and a future. BB7 has neither.
(If HP were to remain in the phone biz, I think Windows Phone would probably be the best fit for them too. I'd dig a Pre 3 with Windows — and its 1.4 GHz single-core processor and WVGA screen would still be competitive with other Windows Phone hardware.)
Maybe. But it really feels like the "openness" crowd has rallied behind Android, whether it's really open or not. The Linux Foundation has been trying for years to make LiMo/Moblin/MeeGo/Tizen a "thing," with very limited success. (What's next for that Voltron of operating systems, I wonder? Are they going to merge Tizen with OpenWebOS?)
I'm not sure the "Google can do no evil, and look how open they are, except when it doesn't make business sense to be open" nonsense can live on for much longer.
And I'm not sure any strategy that relies on RIM's software being "seriously good" to succeed would be wise. ;)
Well, it's foolish to differentiate on hardware. No non-low-cost company survives that, and RIM, being in Canada, can't become low-cost. So, they can either reform their platform, as Apple has with the transition to Mac OS X, or become purely software. And I just don't see what they can uniquely offer in software that Apple can't easily implement in their respective next iOS release.
That's one of the reasons I think Windows Phone would be the best for RIM. For all their blustering about the enterprise, the phones they're really selling are low-end Curves in markets like India – their average selling price for phone has been plummeting for years now. Their single biggest threat is losing those markets to low-end Android devices.
Selling low-cost generic junk doesn't sound sustainable to me, unless they want to move their headquarters to Timbuktu.
The way I see it, there are really three factors that could help RIM compared to Huawei and the like. None of them are likely to give the company a stable position long-term, but combined, they at least give RIM something to stand on now.
The most important is BBM. BBM is still very popular in some markets, and if you want to be part of that network, you need a BlackBerry. Just as Nokia has some Windows Phone apps exclusive to Nokia phones, BBM would almost certainly be exclusive to RIM's devices. That would at least keep RIM's Windows Phones from being totally generic junk. ;)
The second is the BlackBerry brand, which is still desirable in some cultures and subcultures. Crazy as it may seem, there are still places where crowds line up for the hot new BlackBerry, and that brand could conceivably command a premium. "High end" and "low end" are relative terms, after all. Here's an area where BlackBerry's historical position as the productivity tool of choice for America's wealthy business elite could help it, keeping in mind that perception lags reality, especially when viewed from the other side of the world.
The third is that Microsoft is likely to be willing to cut them a very good deal. Windows Phone could cost RIM less per phone than Android would, and that could help them be more price competitive with the Huaweis of the world, Canadian headquarters or no. Other OEMs wouldn't be in the position to get anywhere near the same terms — Microsoft's hope would be that discounting Windows Phone to Nokia and RIM would enable them to sell it to other OEMs at higher prices.
The exact terms of Microsoft's deal with Nokia haven't been disclosed, but between discounted software and marketing support it's said to have a value well into the billions. A similar deal has got to be appealing to a company in RIM's position, I think.
Controlling their own viable ecosystem would give them a better long term position, no doubt. But I just don't think they're going to be able to get there. (That's why my advice for RIM essentially mirrors my advice for Sony — I think Sony could be in a position to control their own viable ecosystem, if they were smart and cut their losses on their money-losing products.)
Even if they do get a "finished" BB10 out the door, what's RIM's plan if it doesn't immediately light the world on fire? Microsoft can afford to keep throwing money at Windows Phone for a lot longer than RIM can throw money at BB10, and I think RIM's in the position where they'd much rather be on the receiving end of that money now, even if it limited their long-term possibilities.
nikstar101
2012-04-09, 15:21
Well to me if i couldn't have an iPhone i would definitely choose a Windows Phone. And from those Windows Phones i would choose the Lumia 800. They look great, the OS has had some thought into its design and it looks fresh (hardware and software). They look co-ordinated compared to Androids, which look a right old mix of things just thrown together, which no two phones having the same layout (from what i can see. If you can use one iPhone you can use any iPhone, but all of my friends Androids look different).
In fact Apple annoyed over my MobileMe account (I was probably having a hissy fit over nothing) that i even started researching Windows Phones!
I do wish that they would get some traction in the market because they deserve to do well, but oddly people are still swaying to the Android side of things (which seems mad!). I agree with pscates, that Nokia/MS need to turn their marketing to Android and not Apple. I imagine that they think this premier phone is a match for the iPhone so thats what the ads have to say, but really the people who will buy it won't be iPhone people.
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