View Full Version : Who the mole is?
torifile
2004-05-16, 11:20
I'd like to respectfully request that the "mole" not be ratted out. I've had a hard time coming to grips with all the immaturity that has played out in the past day or so and I don't think making this information public knowledge is worth it. I hope we can get passed this.
Either way, I'm staking my existence in AI on this information not coming out. If it comes out, I'm going too. Why? Because I think it would be further evidence of vindictiveness and I want to put all the ugliness behind us. (I hope my opinion on this carries some weight. If it doesn't, that's ok too. I wish you all luck. :))
Akumulator
2004-05-16, 11:22
That's a good suggestion..... coming from the mole! ;)
I kid.
We have no plans to release the mole's name anytime soon, if ever. He knows who he is.
LoCash, do you know who it is?
I thought kasper just read the clinic, because he knew about it before... err..
:confused:
alcimedes
2004-05-16, 11:30
although it should be said that there are a fair number of people who know who it is, so it's going to be rather tough for us to prevent anyone from ever sharing.
but i don't plan on it ever coming from me or ours.
thuh Freak
2004-05-16, 13:22
torifile is the mole!
drewprops
2004-05-16, 13:34
Wait-a-minute, I thought he was Joe Millionaire!
torifile is the mole!no he was not..
careful, someone might think you meant it.
MOLE, you ARE the Weakest Link - GOODBYE
Do I hear a reality TV spin off?????? LETS DO IT, it'll be the knew AI's claim to fame.
thuh Freak
2004-05-16, 13:52
no he was not..
careful, someone might think you meant it.
well, this someone should learn that i'm rarely serious about anything outside of drugs and sex.
DMBand0026
2004-05-16, 13:59
well, this someone should learn that i'm rarely serious about anything outside of drugs and sex.
I wasn't aware that you were ever serious about anything.
Ha. Guess you learn something new everyday. ;)
But he's right freak...not everyone knows you like we do.
thuh Freak
2004-05-16, 14:02
But he's right freak...not everyone knows you like we do.
they'll learn.
Wait, i missed it. Regardless of who the mole is, what is it that they did? Damn, I can't keep up with the drama... :D
Akumulator
2004-05-16, 14:54
Wait, i missed it. Regardless of who the mole is, what is it that they did? Damn, I can't keep up with the drama... :D
They ratted out the Clinic.
Oh, ok thanks.
I thought it was something post-Revolucion ;)
billybobsky
2004-05-16, 16:24
i have a good sense of who the mole is... but i won't spread rumors made up by my mind...
in any event it doesn't matter...
Just in case. The snitch is not applenut. applenut rules.
He knows who he is.
Aha! That little clue narrows down the possibilities.
// Joke requires knowledge of the # of women at AI. ;)
Aaaargh, it's the mole! Flee!
http://www.fishing-in-wales.com/_pics/mamlpics/mole.jpg
billybobsky
2004-05-16, 18:50
thats one thing that i like about british english... you don't hear any americans using the term flee... run, but not flee....
thats one thing that i like about british english... you don't hear any americans using the term flee... run, but not flee....
Aaaargh, it's the flea! run!
http://www.rhcpcentral.net/2FOTOSRHCP/step.jpg
thats one thing that i like about british english... you don't hear any americans using the term flee... run, but not flee....
Why thank you, kind Sir. :o :)
SledgeHammer
2004-05-18, 19:43
"Tornado Timmy's coming! Flee!!" (http://forums.appleinsider.org/showthread.php?t=92)
groverat
2004-05-19, 00:32
The mole... my ass.
I didn't know the secret forum existed, but if I did I would have happily been the mole. What is the purpose of secret forums? And furthermore, what is the point of being outraged by their exposure?
God almighty, could you guys make it a little more obvious that this is nothing more than an immature shitfit? Just put on an "I need a diaper change" t-shirt and get it over with.
If I was Kasper I would be a lot more pissed than he seems to be. You freaks do not own AppleInsider. I don't know the legal status of the name or anything but if MacNN brings the hammer down on you then good riddance.
Brad and the others here who have been bitching incessantly for months have done nothing positive here. This is not a revolution it is a tantrum.
It is an absolute blast to watch it all go down. It is even funnier to see that Kasper is infinitely more mature than those bringing a "revolution" to bear against him.
Pass that crack pipe, groverat.
thegelding
2004-05-19, 08:41
even if it is purely that brad and locash and alcimedes wanted to start their own forum, so what...good for them...they did, it is done, move on
they wanted forums without ads that they controlled and now they have them...
as for the mole, who cares...g'rat is right in that secret forums never stay secret forever...websites never stay forever either (blackout anyone?)...
someday ai.com will die, no biggie
someday ai.org will die, no biggie
someday, maybe soon, ai.org will change it's name...no biggie there either
the fighting is kinda silly, but then so is the complaining about fighting
but thats just me
kids, do what you want
g
mrmister
2004-05-19, 17:48
I have to say that I agree with Groverat. This is pretty stupid.
Brad and the others here who have been bitching incessantly for months have done nothing positive here. This is not a revolution it is a tantrum.
It is an absolute blast to watch it all go down. It is even funnier to see that Kasper is infinitely more mature than those bringing a "revolution" to bear against him.
You, like everyone else that maintains this stance, has to understand that we did not choose for this 'revolution' to happen. Kasper chose to start it by making a big mess out of it on Saturday. He could have attempted to speak with myself or Brad privately. Anyone that read that thread knew two things: 1) We were at least two months away, minimum, from having something operational. 2) We had not even decided if this was going to go down.
It was our intention to have something functional and polished that we could show to everyone else that did not know about this, such as James and a few others. Then discuss that, get feedback, and figure out what exactly we were going to do with it. I think it is completely absurd of those of you that are trying to tell me what went down and what my intentions were. Especially when you don't keep in touch with me, hadn't been involved in what I was working on, and furthermore, never read the bloody thread in question. Kind of hypocritical.
I'm also not really sure how Kasper comes off being more mature. Maturity contests kind of go back to the days when we were all thirteen though. And again, realise that Kasper chose for this to happen. We had no intentions whatsoever to launch appleinsider.org this past weekend. Again, I reiterate that Brad, alcimedes, and myself had not entirely decided whether we would launch it. A lot of that was actually more dependent upon the feedback of some of the admins/mod that didn't know about it.
Instead, Kasper finds out, he bans a few of us at the IP level, and he begins censoring more hardcore than a Communist. I think that's actually incredibly lame. On the other hand, after I found out what exactly was going on, I put up appleinsider.org with this forum only so people could openly discuss what was happening; Kasper was locking, editing, and banning people/threads for talking about it in public. A day or so later, we realised this was going to have to be permanent, so we reinstated the forums as usual.
I'm sorry you have nothing but hate and animosity for what happened, but it's your Kasper over there that chose for it to happen this way, we didn't throw the first stone. :rolleyes:
Quagmire
2004-05-19, 19:19
even if it is purely that brad and locash and alcimedes wanted to start their own forum, so what...good for them...they did, it is done, move on
they wanted forums without ads that they controlled and now they have them...
as for the mole, who cares...g'rat is right in that secret forums never stay secret forever...websites never stay forever either (blackout anyone?)...
someday ai.com will die, no biggie
someday ai.org will die, no biggie
someday, maybe soon, ai.org will change it's name...no biggie there either
the fighting is kinda silly, but then so is the complaining about fighting
but thats just me
kids, do what you want
g
I agree with thegelding. We shouldn't fight over what Kasper did. What is done is done. There is no going back. Ai.com and ai.org will die it is only a matter of time. Maybe Kasper shortened ai.com's life by what he did. We wanted an ad free ai and he was being so power hungry he banned the people who he thought would over power him and force him to share more of his power. I think Locash did the right thing by launching .org. But, that is my opinion and you guys don't have to like it.
http://comerio.homestead.com/files/food/flan.jpg
Aaaaargh! It's the flan! Rue!
drewprops
2004-05-19, 21:34
You know what's really weird?
In the last week our cat (I'm assuming it's our cat) has delivered a dead mole on the back patio. I didn't even know there were moles in our neighborhood! They're incredibly interesting little fellers and it's a real pisser that our cat is killing them. I think training her to play with little fuzzy fake rats might have something to do with it.
Hey, I just noticed that Quagmire is now officially named after a Monster Truck... what up with THAT?
SledgeHammer
2004-05-19, 21:38
No no, the monster truck is Grave Digger. Undertaker is a wrestler.
Quagmire
2004-05-19, 21:43
No no, the monster truck is Grave Digger. Undertaker is a wrestler.
Correct. We have winner.
mrmister
2004-05-19, 22:36
"Anyone that read that thread knew two things: 1) We were at least two months away, minimum, from having something operational. 2) We had not even decided if this was going to go down."
But you *were* discussing leaving AI and setting up the community elsewhere, and having this discussion in a "secret" forum. Did anybody think about how that *looks*?
"It was our intention to have something functional and polished that we could show to everyone else that did not know about this, such as James and a few others."
And would that have included Kasper?
"I think it is completely absurd of those of you that are trying to tell me what went down and what my intentions were. Especially when you don't keep in touch with me, hadn't been involved in what I was working on, and furthermore, never read the bloody thread in question. Kind of hypocritical."
I make my judgments based on all the evidence folks have been willing to dredge up. So far it makes you and Brad look a hell of a lot sketchier than anyone else. If you have some record that makes you look less sketchy, post it. Otherwise these accusations of hypocracy aren't worth very much.
"I'm also not really sure how Kasper comes off being more mature. Maturity contests kind of go back to the days when we were all thirteen though."
Kasper was the administrator of that site, whether you liked it or not. You could have created your own forum--instead you've looted the AI look, feel, name and URL. On his end he's been accused of being slow to make changes, picking crappy ads and getting pissed when he discovered a secret plot to take AI somewhere else. It's a value judgment, but he doesn't sound that bad from the evidence presented here so far.
"And again, realise that Kasper chose for this to happen. We had no intentions whatsoever to launch appleinsider.org this past weekend. Again, I reiterate that Brad, alcimedes, and myself had not entirely decided whether we would launch it. A lot of that was actually more dependent upon the feedback of some of the admins/mod that didn't know about it."
And again: were you going to ask KASPER about that? Somehow I suspect no, but I'd like to hear you take a stand on that.
"Instead, Kasper finds out, he bans a few of us at the IP level, and he begins censoring more hardcore than a Communist. I think that's actually incredibly lame."
Not as lame as the rest of you retreads, but yes, that was lame.
"On the other hand, after I found out what exactly was going on, I put up appleinsider.org with this forum only so people could openly discuss what was happening; Kasper was locking, editing, and banning people/threads for talking about it in public. A day or so later, we realised this was going to have to be permanent, so we reinstated the forums as usual."
Oh yes--you were *forced* to act. You've made a supreme sacrifice, so that voices can be heard...it just happens that the sacrifice coincides with exactly what you wanted.
"I'm sorry you have nothing but hate and animosity for what happened, but it's your Kasper over there that chose for it to happen this way, we didn't throw the first stone."
I don't know how groverat feels, but I don't have hate--I just think it's monumentally asinine, and ultimately hurtful to a community I've supported for years.
alcimedes
2004-05-19, 22:43
support what you like. this is very, very tired.
mrmister
2004-05-19, 23:02
Yes, that's what everyone keeps saying--"it's all so tired." It's a cute and conveinent defense, given that no one seems to be able to explain how folks could be such total and complete dumbasses.
InactionMan
2004-05-19, 23:06
Go start a thread on the other AI about this. It'll be interesting to see if Kasper will ban someone that starts a thread about this even though they blindly support him.
alcimedes
2004-05-19, 23:09
except if it were the actions of a handful of people, and that's it, these forums wouldn't be this active. fact is, over 150 members have come over in a few days. a lot of people felt that way. you weren't one of them, which is just fine.
no one is asking you to come here, or making you. we hope people do (including yourself) and that they like it, but we understand some won't.
*shrug*
if you're at a party and the vibe sucks, you and your friends leave to find another one. same deal.
NosferaDrew
2004-05-19, 23:18
if you're at a party and the vibe sucks, you and your friends leave to find another one. same deal.
Exactly.
And you don't stand around that same party all night saying, "This sucks! You dumbasses throw sucky partys". Do you?
Or maybe this is a sly ploy to up ones' post count. Hmmm!
mrmister,
What in the hell crawled up your ass?
Listen up man, you are in no position to make such comments.
You don't understand the half of it and with that you have the nerve to come onto our site and call us "lame".
Guess what? This is an online community. Did you know that? That's why we are using appleinsider.org, because we are the appleinsider community. The look and feel is not taken from AI.com, it's is based off the Apple Pro software site and IMO looks completely different from AI.com.
Do you have any idea how much Brad and LoCash helped AI.com. How many hours they have spent giving to the community at AI.com? Do you still wonder why I'm pissed that you would describe them as sketchy? They have contributed way more to AI.com then you ever will.
As far as I care... your nothing but a troll in my books.
mrmister
2004-05-19, 23:32
\/\/ickes, I won't dignify your post with a response--if you want to flamebait, PM me and do so, alright? I've clearly pointed out what elements of what's happened that I question--if you want to address me like an adult, feel free.
As for everyone else, you make some good points. I do think it's disingenuous to have all this happen last weekend and be shocked and appalled when folks want to discuss it less than a week later--if you review my posts here you'll see that I initiually was wary of the new site, but interested to read how it all came about. When I question the chronology and logic of the decisions I get shouted down--it's not as blunt as Kasper's fist, but it isn't a hell of a lot better.
Finally, I hardly *blindly* support Kasper--I don't support anyone in particular. I just read all the posted threads that folks *at this forum* have put up to show how things came about and it doesn't sound like he's an unreasonable monster.
\/\/ickes, I won't dignify your post with a response--if you want to flamebait, PM me and do so, alright? I've clearly pointed out what elements of what's happened that I question--if you want to address me like an adult, feel free.
No light treading out of this one... Your lack of understanding is not our fault. All the information you would ever want to read on the subject is here. There was a few threads over at AI.com, but guess who went censor crazy? And about the flamebait... you are the one who called all of us "lame" and made other negative remarks to that respect, this is not a one way street.
:rolleyes:
mrmister
2004-05-19, 23:59
"All the information you would ever want to read on the subject is here."
Yes. I've read it all, as I stated in another thread, and already picked apart the evidence. Kasper repeatedly asks the mods to IM him and discuss the situation, in the threads, anyway--did he ignore them? What happened? Why was the situation so intractable? When I read all the available info, posted here, I get a picture of both sides behaving poorly, but it's the AI.org folks who conspire to build a new site with the same name, almost identical URL and almost identical design.
I'd just like answers, if there are any. Did anyone ask Kasper about moving? Did anyone even ever intend to ask him?
"There was a few threads over at AI.com, but guess who went censor crazy?"
Yeah, Kasper deletes posts--that does make him look like an ass, I agree. It doesn't justify all of this, but it certainly doesn't help his cause, either.
"And about the flamebait... you are the one who called all of us "lame" and made other negative remarks to that respect, this is not a one way street."
I should have been more specific--I'm branding as "lame" the individuals directly responsible for splitting the site, not folks who are posting here after the fact. After all, that would include me. ;)
Yeah, Kasper deletes posts--that does make him look like an ass, I agree. It doesn't justify all of this, but it certainly doesn't help his cause, either.
You're right, kasper deleting some posts does not justify all of this, this is a result of many other things -- or did you miss that? :p
mrmister
2004-05-20, 00:09
And what *were* those? All I've heard so far is that he was slow to implement server changes that the mods wanted, changed things w/o regard to the forums on occasion and served bad ads.
This couldn't be discussed with him? Why does he keep asking the mods to IM him in those archived threads--that doesn't *sound* like he ignores people. Maybe someone could address this.
It hardly seems a good enough excuse to splinter the site, copy the name and set up shop in a .org.
I am away from home for a few days on a business trip, but managed, finally, to get this old office PC portable to work with the hotel internet. I have not worked with Windows 98 for a while – and I remember now why I hate it so much. I had to go back into DOS to configure the damn thing properly. At least my office desktop PC is XP, which is not heaven, but is an improvement over 98. Perhaps I will get a iBook to accompany my iMac at home, and be able to bring an Apple with me.
But, after the standard griping about Windows, let me just make a few comments about why I sympathise with those who created .org.:
First, I have no animus against Kasper and I do not know all of the ins and outs of what happened at the moderator-admin level recently on AppleInsider.com. From what I can surmise about what happened recently, there appeared to have been some rash things said and done – in the heat of the moment - on both sides.
Second, I DO NOT welcome the splitting of the AppleInsider community. I really have no desire to create a new forum for the purpose of being only with those I consider to be the members that I like. Hell, I am not sure that I would qualify. :p :confused: Sure, there are always community members that each person prefers or does not prefer (and that opinion varies quite a bit), but I must state there are none among those at AppleInsider.com who should not be welcome here. I DO NOT think that a valid purpose of this new site would be to leave members behind. If some members were offensive or did not follow the rules on .com, this was dealt with on a individual basis – often temporarily – and is an entirely different matter than the impetus for .org. In general, while we all have different opinions about posts and those who post them, the strength of the community is its diversity. Everyone should be welcome.
That being said, I am here at .org and find myself in general agreement with those who are running it. What I do know is that Brad. LoCash and others worked hard keeping AppleInsider alive. I have been impressed with their obvious day-to-day dedication, their fair attitude as moderators, and their involvement at the community level. I may have disagreed with them occasionally, but nobody could question that they cared about AppleInsider, the forums, and the community as a whole. While I have nothing against Kasper, as I said, I must state what is obvious to anyone who frequented the forums: that he was just not there at the community level. I really do not think that he can make an equitable claim to owning AppleInsider, whatever the legal situation might be. AppleInsider, in my view, belongs to the community, not to one individual, and those who volunteer to run it should have a big say in how it is administered. That is my perspective.
Nevertheless, it is extremely sad, I think, that the split has developed. It does not make the AppleInsider community stronger, and that is a bad thing. I actually hope that the split can be repaired and that the two sites can be merged under appropriate agreed leadership conditions. But until the rift is healed, I think that I will largely be here rather than there.
Finally, in addition to the comments I made above, one other aspect of this whole matter has tended to reinforce my views about .com and .org, and about being here rather than there. This aspect is the censorship of free debate on this very issue that is currently happening on .com. This censorship speaks volumes in and of itself. While I have some qualms about the secret (not so secret if you were paying attention, by the way) forums on .com, I have some understanding, now, why it was done this way.
And what *were* those? All I've heard so far is that he was slow to implement server changes that the mods wanted, changed things w/o regard to the forums on occasion and served bad ads.
This couldn't be discussed with him? Why does he keep asking the mods to IM him in those archived threads--that doesn't *sound* like he ignores people. Maybe someone could address this.
It hardly seems a good enough excuse to splinter the site, copy the name and set up shop in a .org.
If by slow you mean weeks to months, yes he was slow. And that lead to problems...
Don't you think if a few simple IMs would have fixed things right up we would not be talking here, right now?
mrmister
2004-05-20, 00:16
i agree with a lot of what you've said, Chimney, though I'd urge you to look through the posted threads of how this all went down when you have a chance.
That said, before the split I have always been happy with the moderators, and I have little doubt that they're dedicated to the new site--I guess I simply question their zealousness and the ways in which they've put it in action.
It will be hard to follow both sites.
mrmister
2004-05-20, 00:17
"Don't you think if a few simple IMs would have fixed things right up we would not be talking here, right now?"
I DON'T KNOW. Maybe the folks involved could explain it, since the transcripts certainly make it sound as if he was available.
It will be hard to follow both sites.
Then don't.
I DON'T KNOW. Maybe the folks involved could explain it, since the transcripts certainly make it sound as if he was available.
Man put some logic into this! Gosh.
thegelding
2004-05-20, 00:21
wickes, play nice
...beautiful post chinney, an articulate canadian, would've guessed?? (note to g, stop the canadian jokes)...
as a prize for your post chinney, i am putting the flames in the stanley cup finals
g
ps...i am not here to fight for the admins at this site, but i do NOT (edited because i am an idiot) think that one or two PDF's tell the whole story...there has been a lot of stuff happening for a long time...at .com there was a great thread with the .com mods talking about it and how they had wished they had done more...it was a very good thread and really showed the .com mods in a beautiful light...sadly kasper deleted it...
time will tell what happens, in the mean time i want to talk about apple and macs and fun stuff...fighting isn't the funnest topic
You are right g.
I'm tired and cranky.... so I'll pick up this topic tomorrow.
*yawn*
he was starting to put me to sleep anyway.
thegelding
2004-05-20, 00:31
dang, i really have to stop sounding so much like a father on these boards...
ha
get some sleep wickes, i'll be up to tuck you in in a minute... :p
g
mrmister
2004-05-20, 00:34
"ps...i am not here to fight for the admins at this site, but i do NOT (edited because i am an idiot) think that one or two PDF's tell the whole story...there has been a lot of stuff happening for a long time...at .com there was a great thread with the .com mods talking about it and how they had wished they had done more...it was a very good thread and really showed the .com mods in a beautiful light...sadly kasper deleted it..."
That wasn't so hard to get someone to at least stand up and say that the whole story is not in those .pdfs--this is, of course, after everyone insists that the whole story *is* there. Like pulling teeth, it is.
If anybody saved an archive of that, that'd be great to see.
drewprops
2004-05-20, 00:59
I must say that one thing MrMister said rang true with me...the name. Our community is sufficiently robust to have moved to a domain with a new name.
alcimedes
2004-05-20, 07:59
one problem is that most of the threads where things were discussed are in the mods forums, and since none of us have access to it anymore, it's a bit tough to get our hands on them.
it really was too bad that the thread in Suggestions got trashed where all the .com mods/admins had posted, that probably would have done a lot of good for everyone. although by this point i was smart enough to be saving threads in case of future deletion.
i actually have a rather long conversation i'd had with Kasper on this issue, but in light of his recent attitude regarding "corporate espionage" i'm not sure i should post it.
i'll have to check and see what the laws are for posting the contents of chats.
pscates2.0
2004-05-20, 08:14
Wow..."interesting" thread.
All you people should make a concerted effort to a) get over yourselves and b) move on already, and c) enjoy (and continue to contribute to and improve) what looks to be a really nice forum...well-designed, quick, sporting some snazzy features, full of old friends, etc.
Who, really, gives a shit about PDFs, secret forums, Kasper this, Tina that, blaming, bad blood, being a dick, not being a dick, choosing sides. Two sites, with most people opting to enjoy both, which is fine.
What, are we honestly going to spend the remainder of 2004 talking about the fucking Tension Relief Clinic and all that it entails?
:D
That's it, situation over. Site's in place (and appears to be a nice one!), and no one has died and the world hasn't caved in. Shut up already, all of you.
:)
Sorry...just had to get that off my chest after 5 days...
:p
If AI.com were a pizza joint and the boss was using sub-par ingredients to save money and denying to implement employee's idea to improve the pizza and a few employees left and started their own pizza joint where the pizza was better; I'd eat there. I'd miss the old place 'cause all the memories, probably even go back once in a while.
The only thing that gets me about the new forum is the name. Really should have made a fresh start with a new name. If the quality of the forum is superior; people will come. No one is accidentally typing .org at the end of the URL and ending up here.
pscates2.0
2004-05-20, 09:49
I said that the first day. I wouldn't mind a new/different name, either. New site, new outlook, new vigor, etc.
New name?
:)
Word will get out. AppleInsider kinda carries some baggage, doesn't it?
I blame Anders. It was his bloody clinic! :D
I won't lie and say that I don't still visit .com but I feel as though not as many threads interest me as they do here.
As for the name change, I guess it wouldn't have too much effect as long as the current address redirected the user to the appropriate location.
Didn't you discuss 'Insider' as a possible name?
pscates2.0
2004-05-20, 11:27
"Insider", by itself? That's horrible. Says nothing about the Apple/Mac angle, which is a huge hook. THE hook, IMO.
Inside what: Politics? TV? Literature?
thuh Freak
2004-05-20, 12:05
iirc, it was mentioned back at the clinic that someone owns appleinsideher.com (http://appleinsideher.com). while obviously derivative of the ol' ai name, it might be sufficiently different for your tastes. plus, it insinuates the nasty. that has to be a good thing.
Inside what: Politics? TV? Literature?'InsideMsVieira.com'
Inside Mrs. Viera. I'd go there.
And then I'd get out. And then I'd go back in. And then...
:p
Well, the 'Insider' name was proposed a long time ago, before the thread in the TRC. At the time... god, this was before Kasper came back, I was working with a couple of people to publish www.mac3d.com again. The domain would have been "insider.mac3d.com", and there was an interface I had hacked out for it at http://www.mac3d.com/beta/
But of course we had other parts of our lives take priority over working on that site, and soon afterwards it was discovered that AppleInsider's forums could not be moved because MacNN owned them, so we put that all on hold for a while. Mac 3D used to publish from 1997 until 2000.
mrmister
2004-05-20, 13:40
Thanks for the post alcimedes--if you're able to post anything in the future that'd be great.
pscates--it's certainly easy for you to cry over and over that this is a stale topic. Fine then--go read a different thread. Since this all went down A WEEK AGO, I don't think I'm delusional for asking questions and probing.
I do wish we had a different URL and name, to make clear that this is a new venture--it'd really wipe away some of the stink of the infighting, and will make it easier to tell new people about the site.
"I read it at AppleInsider."
"Hey I went there and I can't find the thread."
"Really?...Oh! I'm at .org, not .com."
To the outside world the two forums look almost identical--same categories, same name, same basic style. It's definitely confusing.
On the other hand, there's been so much craziness over the last week, maybe now isn't the right time to shift...but the longer it stays, the more ingrained it will be. And while I doubt Kasper/MacNN has the money and desire to use lawyers, they'd definitely have a case for this new site encroaching on the old by confusing people about where they've ended up.
pscates2.0
2004-05-20, 13:51
a) Who's "crying"? Look, the liberal usage of smileys in a post SHOULD tip people off that I'm being a bit loose and flippy with what I'm saying. I swear, why some of you don't ever seem to grasp that...
b) Nothing I said was outrageous...I posted my thoughts on the matter JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. The fact that it seemed to differ from the PDF, Relief Clinnic, Kasper, etc. questions and musings doesn't make it any less valid. I'm sure plenty of people kinda feel the same "okay, great...new site, new higher-ups, new look...let's move on and who cares about the drama". Some in this thread - and others - were carrying on like a couple of hyperventilating chicks in a reality show (or worse, like a bunch of conspiracy geeks), so I pointed it out. Relax.
c) I can read whatever I want, and comment on it. I did.
d) I do agree about the name thing, for the same reasons you bring up (confusion, crossover, etc.), but that's being discussed already and we'll see where things go. No hurry, no big deal. When it's time, it's time. Meanwhile, I'll have a good time and enjoy the place.
Actually, they don't have a case against our use of the name. They also have no case to file a domain dispute claim with ICANN. They don't have a case for a few reasons.
AppleInsider.org is not a commercial venture. When you crunch the numbers, appleinsider loses money. Since there is no source of revenue or income from this site, we are not competing with appleinsider.com
AppleInsider.org has made no blatant attempts to confuse readers at appleinsider.com. The principals of this site do not go to appleinsider.com attempting to tarnish their name or or "steal" their members. The members that are here came on their own accord; they asked some key people why they were banned from .com and we told them. It is not my responsibility to keep the members of this site from promoting it on another.
The logo we're using is vastly different from their logo. For starters, ours is all lowercase. We have a very explicit style change of the typeface between "apple" and "insider", and we're filing a trademark for the logo at some point should we decide to keep the name. Hence the "TM".
If we were a commercial venture and we were actively trying to hurt appleinsider.com, they might have a case. They are supposedly sending me a Cease and Desist letter, which is like a nasty way of asking someone to stop doing something. It also carries no weight; I don't have to do anything until I receive a court order telling me I have to.
Monish and Kasper already called the Raleigh Police Department and attempted to have Brad charged with corporate espionage and fraud. Being the seasoned lawyers that Monish and Kasper are, that didn't stick. After Brad spoke with the Detective, the Detective conceded that this was all quite ridiculous and asinine. That's coming from the cop, not me.
It's all ridiculous, it's all out of hand, and that is all Kasper's fault, not mine. I was only building a rock in case I ever needed one. Kasper actually threw his.
torifile
2004-05-20, 14:08
Monish and Kasper already called the Raleigh Police Department and attempted to have Brad charged with corporate espionage and fraud. Being the seasoned lawyers that Monish and Kasper are, that didn't stick. After Brad spoke with the Detective, the Detective conceded that this was all quite ridiculous and asinine. That's coming from the cop, not me.
That's HILARIOUS! I'm sure the cops were like "this is the stupidest case we've ever worked on" Classic. :)
pscates2.0
2004-05-20, 14:35
Holy smoke, that's getting pretty out of hand! :eek:
Called the police?!?!
Wow...
Yeah, LoCash...I understand what you're saying about the name and all. I read that legal brief you linked to me the other day. But I'm not thinking of it from a legal/ownnership perspective as much as a "fresh start" and "something new" standpoint.
The name means less to me than the community/vibe, in the big scheme. But not being a commercial site, it probably isn't as critical that "AppleInsider" HAD to stay (not going to lose customers, revenue or whatever).
I just imagine some confusion and lots of "no, not .com...appleinsider.org!" qualifiers used between people talking about the site, something they saw o it, etc.
Ad the word "apple" is SO ripe (haha) for clever variations, puns or scientific/literary references that - if needed - someone here could probably come up with something quite snazzy, if things ever came to such a point for whatever reason.
Then again, I'm a sucker for makeovers, re-dos, new stuff, etc.
:)
VOX BARBARA
2004-05-20, 14:47
Damn, I can't keep up with the drama... :D
same drama with me;)
the way some people are behaving on this board, how about: "stewedfruit.com" or "half-baked.org"? :p
I'll let my domain be used if that works. www.appleinsideher.com
For free, even.
:D
BTW, I know who that frickin' MOLE IS.
MUAHAHA
same drama with me;)
Me neither. How the heck do you all have time to post so much here?
applenut
2004-05-21, 00:48
it's an internet message board people
take a step back and look at yourselves
:rolleyes:
this sure is interesting to watch though. Someone should do a research paper on this. Some of you are way too cultish about this though.
DMBand0026
2004-05-21, 01:42
Me neither. How the heck do you all have time to post so much here?
We're all nerds.
Really big nerds.
http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lthomas/nerd.jpg
Like that guy.
VOX BARBARA
2004-05-21, 03:23
[QUOTE=DMBand0026]We're all nerds.
Really big nerds.
(...)
QUOTE]
Well, i second that. BUT time is a big healer, isn't it? And my very own humble opinion is, as soon as the heat is set a bit, as soon as that "appleinsider.com - .org battle" is slowed to zero people will learn: it is all about ...er ...our very beloved platform, right? I mean it is about APPLE, right?
Maybe it was the right move at the right timeframe, maybe not, time will tell us. As much as i appreciate that "community thing", it has have to be, well, ... vivid. And right now i don't feel it is a vivid center. I like to share my Mac Experiences and i almost always happy with others hints and bytes. I love good discussions, sometimes heated, ok, overheated, i love deep insights (no, not that what you mean murbot ;)) . I care to share information all sort of. I like storys, true or not, rumors, well true or not. ;)
About the brand "Appleinsider": Appleinsider is one of the best recognized and most quoted sources in the internet, when it comes to "serious apple rumoring". Hopefully that brand won't go Nirwana.
Well, the bottom line is, i can see a not so far future where .org and .com live together respectfully. Like i said, IMHO... But, what do i know, probably (?) ...
best
thegelding
2004-05-21, 10:30
it's an internet message board people
take a step back and look at yourselves
:rolleyes:
this sure is interesting to watch though. Someone should do a research paper on this. Some of you are way too cultish about this though.
ha, physician heal thyself (by that i mean, heck boy, i've seen you get so worked up at ai that i was worried you would have a stroke, now we have to step back and look at ourselves?
secondly, "this sure is interesting to watch"...then that makes this better than 99% of the boards out there...so bonus!! most boards are way boring, we are teh winner
third, cultish??? tell me something i don't know...hell, ai.com = cultish....surprising that ai.org = cultish also??
fourthly, there is no fourthly...
shouldn't you be out rowing a canoe or something
;)
take care
g
edit: i agree that the first couple of days had a lot of the "storm the castle" heat of the moment mentality, but that has clearly settled down some and should continue to subside....
maybe everything will cool down when the new name change comes about...
if a new name change comes about
applenut
2004-05-21, 12:21
ha, physician heal thyself (by that i mean, heck boy, i've seen you get so worked up at ai that i was worried you would have a stroke, now we have to step back and look at ourselves?
secondly, "this sure is interesting to watch"...then that makes this better than 99% of the boards out there...so bonus!! most boards are way boring, we are teh winner
third, cultish??? tell me something i don't know...hell, ai.com = cultish....surprising that ai.org = cultish also??
fourthly, there is no fourthly...
shouldn't you be out rowing a canoe or something
;)
1. it's all an act. i could post a ton or i could not look at the site for 6 months. ai is not crucial to my existence (it seems some here only have communication with other humans through this thing)
2. it's interesting to watch how extreme and immature people who think they are in "the right" are being and how critical they are of those who "aren't"
3. cultish......wickes posts in this very thread are concerning.... making waaay too much of talking to people he doesn't no at a computer forum.
4. just got back from practice, got practice again in 4 hours :)
AppleInsider.org is not a commercial venture. When you crunch the numbers, appleinsider loses money. Since there is no source of revenue or income from this site, we are not competing with appleinsider.com
Just because you don't make any money doesn't mean you can't potentially make money with the site. The same money that AI.com can't possibly make because of you. You are directly competing as AI.com loses revenue because of you.
AppleInsider.org has made no blatant attempts to confuse readers at appleinsider.com.
The similar name and identical content are confusing enough.
The logo we're using is vastly different from their logo. For starters, ours is all lowercase. We have a very explicit style change of the typeface between "apple" and "insider",
Doesn't really change the name though. Besides, looking at the two logos right now, I totally disagree with "vastly different".
If we were a commercial venture and we were actively trying to hurt appleinsider.com, they might have a case.
You are hurting them because you use their valuable name.
Monish and Kasper already called the Raleigh Police Department and attempted to have Brad charged with corporate espionage and fraud.
This is just ridiculous.
Having said all that, I have to add that I'm no lawyer nor legally trained in any way. Nonetheless, at least to me it seems that some of your arguments don't carry much water and I really hope that a) there are better arguments, b) ICANN's policy is fucked up or c) you have a good backup plan.
I have two very good attorneys that already reviewed everything and told me I have nothing to worry about. They have represented me for years, so there is not really a problem. On the other hand, it doesn't much sound like Monish or Kasper have consulted with an attorney. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just reiterating some of the things I was told.So, with all due respect, it might be nice for you to consult a lawyer before playing one here :)
Not trying to be rude, I'm just saying, I did my homework. Furthermore, nothing here changes without a court order saying it has to.
I have two very good attorneys that already reviewed everything and told me I have nothing to worry about. They have represented me for years, so there is not really a problem. On the other hand, it doesn't much sound like Monish or Kasper have consulted with an attorney. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just reiterating some of the things I was told.So, with all due respect, it might be nice for you to consult a lawyer before playing one here :)
Not trying to be rude, I'm just saying, I did my homework. Furthermore, nothing here changes without a court order saying it has to.
That would be b) then.
I think I said that this was my unqualified opinion. And it still is. Also, I do understand that you probably can't talk about several things because it would weaken your position.
aye, sorry, I'm so busy this weekend I have to read these posts quick. I'm about to run back out again. I try to make sure everyone knows as much as I know. Right now, there actually isn't much I haven't told people here. My unqualified opinion floated around with yours, but I was told otherwise, so what the hell.
We honestly don't think it will ever see a courtroom. That costs too much money, and I don't think once Kasper and Monish crunch the numbers that it is going to be worth it.
<snip> Furthermore, nothing here changes without a court order saying it has to.
Now there's a nice change. Kasper has shown great propensity to knuckle under with a mere Apple whisper. Monish was horribly worse than that. Just make sure you and your boys keep the homework current please. :)
mrmister
2004-05-21, 20:48
I can't believe they called the police over this. Fucking A, that's incredibly lame--and corporate espionage? I almost fell out of my chair.
Well, that clinches it. I'm switching my bookmarks over now. Things might not have been handled perfectly, but between the censorship and everything else I don't think I can deal with the old site.
No hard feelings to anyone who might have them--I felt it was a good idea to really dig for clear answers to things.
thegelding
2004-05-21, 21:04
no problem mrmister...things were weird...glad to have you aboard
g
InactionMan
2004-05-21, 21:07
It was a fairly ludicrous move to call the cops. I'm really tempted to start a thread (that would quickly be deleted and I banned) that announces Kasper's oh-so-pathetic behaviour. But I know better than that. I'll just wait till I'm back at work next week. :p
-kidding, not gonna, just wanna.
it's an internet message board people
take a step back and look at yourselves
:rolleyes:
...[snip]...
applenut - I can respect your new calmness (and do applaud it) - but I feel that based on some of your past behaviour on the original AI, that above comment is a little "pot calling the kettle black". There is a *link* in another thread that I certainly wouldn't be too proud of.
Having said that, if you are talking only from your "recent form" at AI.org then I unreservedly withdraw that above comment. :)
groverat
2004-05-24, 00:40
---
You, like everyone else that maintains this stance, has to understand that we did not choose for this 'revolution' to happen.
--
Yeah, you did. That is about as stupid a lie as has ever been told. At least have the balls the take responsibility.
Unless Kasper actually created these forums and possessed brad, et al to hack AI.com and create secret forums then he did not force anyone to do a goddam thing.
--
Especially when you don't keep in touch with me, hadn't been involved in what I was working on, and furthermore, never read the bloody thread in question.
--
What does it matter?
Kasper is more in control of AI.com than anyone else currently posting and always has been. If you don't get what you want, tough shit. It is not your ball to take and go home.
--
I'm also not really sure how Kasper comes off being more mature.
--
When Kasper hacks your account and posts as you then he pulls even on the immature scale.
--
Again, I reiterate that Brad, alcimedes, and myself had not entirely decided whether we would launch it.
--
How noble.
--
I'm sorry you have nothing but hate and animosity for what happened, but it's your Kasper over there that chose for it to happen this way, we didn't throw the first stone.
--
No hate or animosity, I will just publicly acknowledge plain fact: this "revolution" is nothing more than an incomprehensibly stupid and melodramatic temper tantrum. The purpose of the "revolution" was to gain more "power" for yourselves. Success. You have accomplished a sum total of absolutely nothing for the "community". A slightly different look and that's about it. Revolutionary leaders of a non-existent cause.
And who the hell is "your Kasper"? My Kasper? What the hell does that mean? The "us" v. "them" logic of a child that lumps me in on a "side" with some guy I have never had a conversation of any kind with.
I've been very busy not giving two shits about AI.com or .org for many months and I still don't think about it for a millisecond when my browser is not pointed to either. I have no stake in either side except to read what is available (and I have access to the .com mod forum and have for years) and comment on what is obvious.
Brad, et al would freak out like insane crybabies because Kasper wouldn't let him do whatever he wanted. Well, finally it was time for junior to tip over the cosmetics stand in the middle of Target while grabbing his toy from mommy's purse. Success, the Revlon is all over the floor and you've got your toy. "Kasper is a meanie head" does nothing to diminish the astoundingly childish behavior on the part of the "revolutionaries", I don't care if he kicks puppies, the whole mentality behind plotting a rival site that is an obvious rip-off (so blatant as to use the same name) in a secret forum screams "mommy look at me!" and earns absolutely no respect.
THE COMMUNITY was always the rallying cry at the bitchfest threads, well what the hell has actually improved for the community? Not a goddam thing.
NosferaDrew
2004-05-24, 01:48
LOL. Why do you post here?
You've twisted what happened so much in your own mind that you actually believe it.
Very funny in a sad way
He can post wherever he wants.
I think that he certainly has a point. This sums it up pretty well: This "revolution" is nothing more than an incomprehensibly stupid and melodramatic temper tantrum. The purpose of the "revolution" was to gain more "power" for yourselves. Success. You have accomplished a sum total of absolutely nothing for the "community". A slightly different look and that's about it. Revolutionary leaders of a non-existent cause.
What is the real benefit of our so called 'freedom'? No ads? No more mighty-overlord ala Kasper? (Which we never saw anyways) More control?
Hell, I'm all for a cool new forum, no doubt. But for all I know, maybe Brad will one day be an overlord too, who knows. Heck, I see LoCash or murbot (especially murbot) in that role too! ;)
Conclusion: The revolution may have its cause in things I look at as trivial. It was a quest for power. Nothing more. However, in the end, it has very real benefits for the community. But the move for the revolucion was not made for the community in the first place.
:)
A revolution is never the best way to accomplish things. The vast majority of active posters didn't get a say in things.
That said, to absolve Kasper of blame is ridiculous. Under him .com turned into an orgy of deletions, locks and bans. All the members who post here out of necessity made it a revolution.
Barto
crazychester
2004-05-24, 07:08
A revolution is never the best way to accomplish things. The vast majority of active posters didn't get a say in things.
That said, to absolve Kasper of blame is ridiculous. Under him .com turned into an orgy of deletions, locks and bans. All the members who post here out of necessity made it a revolution.
Barto
Oh please stop putting the cart before the horse.
Fact: This little web site that was supposedly a couple of months away from being ready was miraculously able to be up in and running within hours of Brad and LoCash being banned.
Fact: Brad had very conveniently left a backdoor open for himself so he could keep posting after being banned. Not to mention all the other preparations he'd made.
Fact: LoCash claims elsewhere (we'll see if it turns out to be true) that he has does his legal homework.
Then you expect us to all believe that this was never meant to go down this way or to happen so soon. Look, if you all have "I am a mug" (mug=sucker) tattooed on your foreheads, then fine. But don't blame those of us who don't.
Ironically, this sort of thing happens in the dance school biz from time to time. It is regarded as being very poor form. This is how it goes. A teacher within an existing school plots behind the principal's back to set up their own business and take as many of the school's students with them as possible. If any of my teachers tried pulling such a stunt on me and I found out beforehand, I would sack them on the spot.
That most people who supported this in the TRC thread haven't been banned and are still free to post at .com as usual except on this topic, is something of a minor miracle in my books and shows quite a bit of restraint on Kasper's part.
From what has been said, we cannot currently discuss this at .com because a legal challenge may ensue. Well, my first thought on seeing this VERY similar web site was that somebody would be speaking to their lawyers. And that means limitations on freedom of speech. You do know that if you have a car accident and you admit liability to the other party, your policy can be invalidated by your insurance company, don't you? Even if it's your fault.
The real world has met cyberspace here leaving many of you way out of your depth.
But stop this crap of "Kasper forced our hand". Because it's just not true. The TRC thread and fomenting rebellion came first. Then came Kasper's response. That's the way it went down.
And I thought I was the one living in a richly embellished fantasy world.
pscates2.0
2004-05-24, 07:35
Wow, the drama continues...
Gee, I guess my post TWO PAGES AGO wasn't all that far-fetched.
:p
You've got people taking the time to register just to tear the "rebels" a new one, you've got the name "Kasper" becoming the new codeword for "evil bastard tyrant", you've got poor chester in all kinds of emotional knots, etc.
Looks to me like LoCash and Brad have things running pretty well here...surprisingly so, considering the hasty and unintended "early launch". And the other site is cruising along at full sail too, from what I can tell. Beyond that, again I ask, who really gives a damn?
If this site ever collapses or implodes, it'll be because it - and/or a significant chunk of its members - never managed to move beyond what happened last week.
:rolleyes:
And that would just be kinda sad...
My point was not that Brad and LoCash
a) were not planning this
or
b) were not secretly formulating some nasty conspiracy
It was that people didn't like how Kasper responded and came here. Myself included. What happened sucked but what's done is done. If you want you can paint a giant "I AM A MUG" on my forehead, computer, text books - and butt, just to make sure. Just get it over with quickly.
Barto
crazychester
2004-05-24, 08:16
you've got poor chester in all kinds of emotional knots, etc.
Hey, Barto if you guys want to get it over with quickly you can always just ignore everybody else. We can sit here and grumble between ourselves. I was just inspired to reply to YOUR reply.
But now onto more important matters.....
pscates let me tell you what happened just now. It's around 11 pm here and I posted the reply to Barto and was going to nest for the night, when I saw the new email pop up and that you replied.
First I laughed. Next I thought "Oh this'll be good. Let's see what condescending quips he comes out with this time."
You didn't disappoint.
See, to me that sort of crap must be so patently piss weak to everybody that it's just laughable. And if it isn't patently piss weak to everybody then it's still laughable. For me it's a win-win situation.
And Barto, I'd put in at least one smilie there to ensure you knew there are really no hard feelings but I derive far more secret satisfaction from the possibility that scates might be pissed off by my not using them. I'm sure you'll understand.
I'm sure you'll understand.
Understood.
There seems to be a lot of baiting going on here. groverat's post, your reply to my post and my reply to your post.
DMBand0026
2004-05-24, 09:32
Of course there is bating going on, because some folks here don't seem to care to make the situation any better than it is by GETTING OVER IT!
Geez people. I know I'll catch crap for this from some, but if you don't like the way things are here, or the way this all happened, get the heck out. I'm sick and tired of hearing you all whine and complain about crap that is beyond everyone but a select few here. So shut up, and if you cant, I know I won't be sad to see you go.
pscates2.0
2004-05-24, 09:38
Nice.
I wasn't being a jerk, chester. Or "condescending". You were in knots, weren't you? You poured your heart out on a couple of occasions, in long thoughtful posts, where you were unsure about things here and the whole reason this site came to be. You seemed pretty intense and troubled about it all, so I call that "knots".
:confused:
If you want to take that as some sort of personal slam or whatever, then sorry. That's something you'll have to do I guess. But most would probably not, since I didn't say anything that wasn't the case or wasn't true, you know?
You don't disappoint either. Jeez...take a pill, won't you? No need to be so high-strung and sporting such a persecution complex. No one here dislikes you, chester. I promise.
:)
groverat
2004-05-24, 10:31
It isn't about starting a "rival" forum. It is about the pathetically childish way it was carried out. I read the threads in the mod forums, I know how this came to be. The fits in there are epic.
It is indeed odd that .org was up and running so soon after being "forced" into it. But whatever, it doesn't matter.
The incessant whining to hacking .com shows me this is about those who are now in charge of .org, not the "community" and I will be happy to point as much out.
Do I hate brad, murbot, whoever? Of course not. I don't know what LoCash, murbot, and whoever else had to do with anything. I know brad hacked .com and that is intolerable.
The fact that my commentary on this event would evoke cries of "you hate me!" just shows how emotion-based this whole thing was.
Start all the rival sites you want. Hell I post at orangeinsider and that was a little side project from AI.
The forum looks great, try not to be childish twats in future.
thegelding
2004-05-24, 11:26
nice post
poor last sentence
but overall, accurate
i would love it if nobody was spamming .com...just let things fly on there own...but i can't control all the people here nor there...just me (and barely that)...
g
edit: ps....can we close this thread?? i know we aren't a forum that likes to lock or close threads just "willy-nilly", but i think the "who is the mole?" thing has run its course...none of us who don't know who the mole is really cares anymore at this point (or shouldn't care if they do) and i think it is all a moot point by now...if we want to discuss how the "break up" occurred, then we can start a thread about that, but i think that is all moot somewhat also
just my thoughts though
I know brad hacked .com and that is intolerable.
as far as i'm concerned it makes all of brad's "we don't condone piracy"
and morality lectures back at .com a load of crap.
i'm disappointed.
thegelding
2004-05-24, 12:48
oh well, i guess we can't lock or close this thread now as it will seem like censorship...sigh...
as for the above post...lots of blame to go around i guess, especially if we are in a blaming mood...
as far as i know, .org has it's own vB, so no piracy there...brad had backups of the forums, but he was not told not to do that and we have not seen those backups here at this time...
brad did hack into the forums as kasper, which is a big no no...but it was only after kasper banned him without warning and brad was just out of sinus surgery...so i chalk it up to a bad friday for all of us and move forward
still post at both sites, still plan to post at both sites...have "friends" at both
g
No hard feelings to anyone who might have them--I felt it was a good idea to really dig for clear answers to things.
No problem...
Glad you are stickin with us.
i'm not assessing blame, i'm just saying brad is really no longer able to lay any guilt trips on someone doing something illegal or unethical.
it's something he's just going to have to live with, and hopefully he won't use the "i was still under anesthesia defense" because that will only make it worse.
i just have always found brad very helpful and thought he had a lot of integrity, and now i'm just a little let down.
but i like the new sight and have enjoyed being here in the beginning and hope to watch it grow, whether it be with the old lot, or people we've yet to meet.
Can't we all just...get along??? :(
-RK
SonOfSylvanus
2004-05-24, 15:52
Great Read :p (hey - no devil smilie... ha, or a frownie... just when you need them, you know?)
thegelding
2004-05-24, 16:18
but i like the new sight and have enjoyed being here in the beginning and hope to watch it grow, whether it be with the old lot, or people we've yet to meet.
cool, glad to see you here, skmdc....you were/are always my favorite monkeydeathcar...the karate is a bonus...the super, a given
g
ps...good luck and congrats with the new kid...the blog and photos are great...she is a treasure
thuh Freak
2004-05-24, 16:20
i'm not assessing blame, i'm just saying brad is really no longer able to lay any guilt trips on someone doing something illegal or unethical.
it's something he's just going to have to live with, and hopefully he won't use the "i was still under anesthesia defense" because that will only make it worse.
i just have always found brad very helpful and thought he had a lot of integrity, and now i'm just a little let down.
but i like the new sight and have enjoyed being here in the beginning and hope to watch it grow, whether it be with the old lot, or people we've yet to meet.
brad's a normal person, just like you, me or that guy over there. who among us hasn't committed capital fraud, or... corporate espionage? ;) i know i've committed "high" crimes and misdemeaners. :smokey:
NosferaDrew
2004-05-24, 17:19
:smokey:
Heh, still no smokey gif.
I approve.
Besides, it looks better written out like that. :D
thuh Freak
2004-05-24, 17:37
Heh, still no smokey gif.
I approve.
Besides, it looks better written out like that. :D
i like putting it in, cuz it sits in silent protest of his absense.
crazychester
2004-05-24, 18:12
Understood.
There seems to be a lot of baiting going on here. groverat's post, your reply to my post and my reply to your post.
Barto I already know you're a thinker. I didn't read groverat's post or your reply or my post as baiting but just as healthy discussion. If your or my or anybody else's posts get a bit spicey but still contain some real content, I'll respect you for it even if I don't agree with you.
DMBand and pscates are baiting but unfortunately this little fishy isn't interested in biting.
However, one of the reasons I've decided not to post in the regular forums here at this point in time is that the membership base is so small that the DMBands and pscates are too difficult to avoid. And I just find them tiresome and a little pathetic.
pscates2.0
2004-05-24, 19:10
Oh my gosh. Unbelievable. I'd sure like to know how, exactly, I'm "baiting". Guess you didn't read my previous post, or take any of it to heart.
No matter. Sincere apologies all around, and a round for the house on me.
http://www.clay-gallery.com/images/chipsndips2.jpg
Anyone for chips and dip?
thuh Freak
2004-05-24, 20:23
Anyone for chips and dip?
http://www.guinness.com/vgn/images/portal/cit_451/17479452mainProducts.jpg i got the beer.
Barto I already know you're a thinker. I didn't read groverat's post or your reply or my post as baiting but just as healthy discussion. If your or my or anybody else's posts get a bit spicey but still contain some real content, I'll respect you for it even if I don't agree with you.
DMBand and pscates are baiting but unfortunately this little fishy isn't interested in biting.
However, one of the reasons I've decided not to post in the regular forums here at this point in time is that the membership base is so small that the DMBands and pscates are too difficult to avoid. And I just find them tiresome and a little pathetic.
cc - I wanted post this earlier, but was busy and now pscates has chimed in already... but, I really must say, I don't think he was trying to bait you. I read his post as a genuine description of how he guessed you felt. Admittedly, he is "over this topic" (and he's entitled to feel that way), but I don't think he was out to make you feel hated or an outsider or anything like that.
Admittedly, this line of his was not the nicest:
You don't disappoint either. Jeez...take a pill, won't you? No need to be so high-strung and sporting such a persecution complex. No one here dislikes you, chester. I promise. ... but I think that was a retaliatory comment (heat of the moment exchange perhaps - for both he and you?)
I really do enjoy your posts crazy because, as I have stated before, they are well thought out and honest/heartfelt. I'm happy that you are here - perhaps you're even posting at both sites - and I would not like to see this topic become a thread for personal attacks (not saying that it is you) ... this applies to all who are reading this post! Similarly, it would be disappointing if this became the thread where internet acquaintance/friendships(?) are damaged beyond repair just because of a few misinterpreted exchanges.
Peace to all! :) <- That's a genuine happy smilie; not meant to be taken as sarcasm.
oh well, i guess we can't lock or close this thread now as it will seem like censorship...sigh...
[...]
g
I think that there would be a real problem in locking and then deleting so that people could no longer read what was said. That type of behavior is part of the reason why I am here and not there. But as for a locking a thread on a subject that has probably run its useful course or, locking a thread to redirect the discussion under a new course under a new thread - I imagine that will happen here as well. That's part of what moderators do.
As for this particular thread...well, I am not a moderator. :p I do note, however, that this whole Viva! forum is supposed to be temporary which, I think, is a good thing.
drewprops
2004-05-24, 22:51
Wowsers.
Go away for a few days and look what happens when you get back, my little rebel band are fighting amongst themselves! Snap to order you rabble and lay off the attitude!
First off, I want to shout out a great big Gaziza! to SKMDC. Way to go pops.
Secondly, I'd like to ask CrazyChester to pleeeeeze give Mr. Scates another chance, he's one of the most reasonable and most genuine people we've ever had on AI, .com or .org and I can guarantee you that anything that he's typed to you has been meant in the most erstwhile manner. Paul's one of my faves.
Thirdly, did anybody notice that CC's got dancer's legs? Woot! ;)
Fourthly, I do think that no one would mind if this thread were closed and redirected into a thread with an appropriate title since we're no longer looking for the mole (not that I ever particularly cared).
Fifthly, I wanted to spell "fifthly".
Sixthly, I've never heard the word "Seventhly".
Seventhly.
Of course there is bating going on, because some folks here don't seem to care to make the situation any better than it is by GETTING OVER IT!
Geez people. I know I'll catch crap for this from some, but if you don't like the way things are here, or the way this all happened, get the heck out. I'm sick and tired of hearing you all whine and complain about crap that is beyond everyone but a select few here. So shut up, and if you cant, I know I won't be sad to see you go.
it's a double edged sword DMBand0026 - nobody is telling you to come in here and read this stuff... are they? ;)
DMBand0026
2004-05-24, 23:40
it's a double edged sword DMBand0026 - nobody is telling you to come in here and read this stuff... are they? ;)
No sir, but I do so I can shoot down the tired whining of some of our other members. :)
It don't make my blood boil as much as I let on. I just want some people to shut up.
alcimedes
2004-05-24, 23:49
I just want some people to shut up.
well, on that note. this thread is massively off topic. i'll close it up, it's more than served its original purpose. if anyone would like to address any one of the half a dozen topics covered in this thread, please feel free to make a new thread to address such issues. :)
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