Question/comment about the John Edwards thing...

[pscates2.0]

First off, relax...this isn't a political thread and it has nothing to do with Edwards as a politician or whatever. It's more about the press and all I've noticed today, concerning Kerry choosing him as a running mate.

I woke up this morning and heard the news. I figured as much, big deal (however, the borderline orgasmic coverage of it is getting a little silly and over-the-top, 12 hours later). Turned on the news while getting ready for work and there's the CNN gang all earnestly discussing it, as well as Fox & Friends gang, giving it such play. Same thing on C-Span and any and all other news/issue show on TV. People are calling in, the shows are posting poll questions for people to phone in and answer, etc. I heard, on more than one occasion, one of the pundits or anchors talking about how "this makes a difference" and this could "deliver big numers in the South" and whatnot.

Coming home from work today, they interviewed, on the radio, one of the political science professors from UTC (University of Tennessee at Chattanooga) here in town, and he's saying "this is huge...it'll help bring the South" and "this means a lot because people will respond to that...". CNN just ran a poll, while going to commercial 15 minutes ago: "Does the choice of John Edwards influence your vote?"

So, to my question: who, exactly, are these pundits and anchors referring to? WHAT people? Aren't Democrats - on balance - going to vote for Kerry/Edwards, no matter what, and Republicans do the same for Bush/Cheney? Are people assumed to be so coreless and without convictions that they're swayed by such things as the state/region some possible VP is from? Is that what is at play here?

I've heard otherwise intelligent people - all day long - talk about how "this might really change things around" or "this has major ramifications" and so on. What am I missing? I guess I just find it hard to believe there are people who - by now - don't know the differences, can't tell Bush from Kerry, don't have some sort of informed opinion or belief on which direction they'd like to see the country go, etc. and are totally basing their choice on which state one of these guys are from?

John Edwards could be from my hometown, we could've gone to high school together and he could've dated my sister, for crying out loud...but I'm still not going to be compelled to vote for the Kerry/Edwards ticket, despite all that. I would expect anyone with a core and some convictions to think the same thing, the other way around too (if Bush picked a new VP from Alabama, are a bunch of die-hard Alabama Democrats going to suddenly throw in with Bush? I wouldn't think so, not at all).

But the press is acting like this is some huge thing. Is it? Can it be? How? To who? I am totally not getting something here, apparently.

:confused:

Maybe this is just an outcome of the 24/7 cable news channels, and they can only talk about Scott Peterson and the Iraqi prison scandal so much? And anything new and different gets wall-to-wall coverage and discussion? You think maybe that's part of it? Just seems like a weird notion to put forth, all day long (John Edwards is, just from being from here, going to "deliver the South" because we'll all get behind a fellow Southerner, regardless of our leanings and beliefs...and if we have none, we'll do it just to be neighborly?).

:D

[Naderfan]

I've never really understood why the vice-president makes such a huge difference either, but it usually turns out that it does. You're right, Democrats and Republicans already have decided who they're voting for, regardless of the veep choice. But I think what the pundits are referring to are undecided, independent voters. They might see Kerry as being an elitest liberal northerner, but having Edwards there will calm him down a little. They may have been really upset that Edwards didn't win the primaries but now are happy that he's on the ticket. People who may not have cared to vote but really like Edwards (he's from their region, they see him as "one of them" because he actually grew up in the middle class) so now they'll vote. It's hard to predict exactly why american voters do what they do. I hope this makes sense and helps a little/at all.

[pscates2.0]

Yeah, I guess. I can see that. What I can't see is not having a firm conviction already formed. These are serious times. I could see Edwards being seen as "balance", but nobody casts these votes based on the VP, do they? I certainly never have.

How could anyone, at this point, not know? Or even if they don't like Kerry (or Bush), does Edwards or Cheney truly make up for that?

I guess I'm just missing the angle of it, and finding it hard to believe it matters such a great deal. Not sure Edwards is true "balance" anyway, but I guess the accent and boy-ish looks count for some?

;)

Just been a long, odd day...seems that one person can be counted on to represent a region, and everyone is in lockstep behind that.

Hell, I'm more inclined to vote for someone as FAR away from my state as possible, because as a citizen already aware of my hometown/state guy, I'm more than aware of any idiotic shithead antics, legislation, behavior, etc. he's most likely been involved in.

[glances over at Mr. Gore, who didn't even win Tennessee last time around. There's reasons for that...we know the guy]

:D ;)

[Kickaha]

Not sure Edwards is true "balance" anyway, but I guess the accent and boy-ish looks count for some?

Got it in one.

This is a pandering for the soccer-mom vote. The ones who thought Bush was sexy in his flight suit and such.

I'm highly disappointed in Kerry with this decision. This was the *one thing* that he could have done to make me reconsider voting for him... and he went and did it. Bad move.

[pscates2.0]

It's the TV age, no doubt. Good hair, nice smile, looking good in a suit, etc. probably goes further, sadly, than being a true visionary or leader (that goes across the board, to anyone, and both parties...that's not directed at Edwards at all).

Think back on some of our uglier, goofier-looking presidents. I always hear about how Abe Lincoln wouldn't stand a chance today.

:lol:

It's probably true.

[HOM]

Think back on some of our uglier, goofier-looking presidents. I always hear about how Abe Lincoln wouldn't stand a chance today.

:lol:

It's probably true.
Depends on how tall the person he was running against was. Up until Bush/Gore the tallest person won.

As for the topic at hand I have way too much to say about it and I've killed enough threads already.

[alcimedes]

just one more reason to vote for nader Kick. :D

[Kickaha]

just one more reason to vote for nader Kick. :D

*grumble* Don't tempt me.

[pscates2.0]

Kickaha, I'm not sure I understand...are you for or against Kerry? What, about today, irked you? It changes your mind in which way? To NOT go with Kerry? The pandering aspect kinda sauced you? :confused:

They look quite smitten (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040706/capt.sge.kur38.060704115333.photo00.default-336x384.jpg) with one another. :lol:

"A kiss is just a kiss...". Sorry...just a funny photo, taken, I'm sure, while one was leaning to whisper something to the other in a loud crowd. Timing... ;)

[Kickaha]

Kickaha, I'm not sure I understand...are you for or against Kerry? What, about today, irked you? It changes your mind in which way? To NOT go with Kerry?

Until today, Kerry had my vote locked in for him, pretty well.

I'm from NC, and Edwards screwed us over here fourteen ways from Sunday. He is *NOT* liked here, *by the Democrats*. Basically, out of the four P/VP candidates, Kerry is the only that hasn't demonstrated a singular lack of clarity when it comes to what is 'truth'.

Edwards is a pretty boy who has charisma, and that's about it, other than a nasty thirst for personal power and gain. At least with Cheney, we know where his loyalties lie. Edwards is a loose cannon, and frankly, the idea that he might get the Big Chair due to some accident with Kerry scares the beejeezus out of me. He *did* coauthor the Patriot Act.

Anyway. I think this was a move on Kerry's part strictly for superficial vote gathering, not for substance. And that annoys the hell out of me, I thought he was a better man than that. Stupid ideals.

[pscates2.0]

Ah, okay. I see now.

I think this was a move on Kerry's part strictly for superficial vote gathering, not for substance....I thought he was a better man than that.

:\

I'm surprised that you're surprised. Which Kerry are we talking about here? John, the one running for president? :D

He's been a bit all over the place on so many things it seems, why would this sting more? Or come as a big, unexpected pisser?

You might've been too generous in your initial assessment. ;)

BTW, they're STILL talking about it, nonstop, on TV. AND going on and on about the things I opened this thread with.

:\

It's funny what you say about Edwards and N.C. Kinda ties in with what I said about Gore and Tennessee earlier. Republican or Democrat, no one knows a politician like their own state, so I believe that's a good barometer to look to.

I do think Edwards is getting a nice ride. He has less political experience than another young VP candidate had, and possesses just as much of a mop-headed, wide-eyed google-faced vibe. But while Edwards is enjoying a 15th straight hour of cooing, praise and adoration on every channel I scan through, the other fella was ripped into, out of the gate it seemed.

Sure hope he doesn't misspell any vegetables in the coming months...

;)

[Spart]

Depends on how tall the person he was running against was. Up until Bush/Gore the tallest person won.

As for the topic at hand I have way too much to say about it and I've killed enough threads already.

Well, if the tallest person wins this time around, it's going to be Kerry.

I should know...I'm 6'0", not by any means tall, but still taller than average. I stood next to Kerry for like five minutes while he was being introduced at a small event in our town, back when he was behind Dean in the polls. We were pretty much in the same boat...he was waiting for Congressman Boswell to finish introducing him so he could talk, and I was waiting for Kerry to get out there and talk so I could get a good picture of him for my Federal Government teacher. I have no idea how tall he is, but he made me feel pretty short. Must be at least 6'4".

Out of all the candidates that came through our town, I liked him best. He had a table with free bagles, donuts, coffee, and orange juice.

:lol:

[BRussell]

We're watching different TV, pscates. I posted this over at AI - the first thing I saw this morning on CNN when I heard Edwards got chosen was a graphic of the Bush/Cheney campaign's anti-Edwards talking points. It was incredible. The RNC e-mails CNN its news. :err:

Anyway, yeah it's silly to say the veep selection matters much, and they usually admit it when they're asked it directly. As I was watching CNN's coverage and throwing shit at the TV, they had Paul Begala on and say it never matters who the veep candidate is.

One thing I think it does is say something about the presidential candidate and his decision-making. Is he afraid he'll be overshadowed? Is he using it only to get a particular state? Clinton's choice of Gore was important in the sense that he didn't pick a balancer. That said something about Clinton.

IMO, what this says about Kerry is that he's Mr. Conventional. Edwards was the first choice by most of the Democratic activists and news pundits. It was a complete non-surprise. And if you look back at Kerry's political career, it's been exceedingly boring and conventional. He really doesn't take risks. He would probably govern the same way. And you know what? After Bush, maybe that would be a good thing. :wow:

[thegelding]

i should have taken a bet as to when kick was gonna come and be pissed off ;)

anyways, edwards will play well to the ladies, will supply some energy and spark and will raise lots of dough...

as for misspelling veggies, not gonna happen unless it is as a joke...some may not like edwards (looking kicks way), but he is a very smart, well spoken man...

i want to see who is the first side to call the other side the rich and privileged ... all four candidates are millionaires many times over...

g

[Kickaha]

i should have taken a bet as to when kick was gonna come and be pissed off ;)

:lol:


i want to see who is the first side to call the other side the rich and privileged ... all four candidates are millionaires many times over...

Oh, but didn't you know? Edwards came from poor roots, and watched his pappy struggle... not. Middle class family regionally, upper middle class within the hometown. When he ran for senator, they were running pictures of his 'childhood home'... except, it was the grandparents' farm where he summered as a child. Much more rustic than the nice suburban home he grew up in, and better for photo ops, you see...

Bleah. He's such a fake.

[Eugene]

People are going to equate being from the South as being conservative, even if Edwards is not. It doesn't mean Kerry will win Edwards' home state, but it'll definitely give him a better chance at states like Florida and Arizona.

[pscates2.0]

We're watching different TV, pscates.

:err:

I seriously doubt it. I'm watching CNN, MSNBC, Fox, the three networks...just like anyone else would (what else is there on regular cable?). In other words, I didn't have my Rush-O-Tronic aluminum radio hat on, getting his take on it, and relaying on, if that's what you're getting at.

:p

I know you like to refute or pooh-pooh most everything out of my pie-hole, but if you're saying that there wasn't over-the-top, wall-to-wall coverage on ALL networks yesterday (and even continuing today) that was of a silly, fawning nature (and spawning all sorts of boneheaded commentary and discussion)...then you're not watching any of the above. Or paying much attention.

Ms. Woodruff practically had her legs in the air over it all, in between asking stupid rhetorical questions (the kinds I based this thread on) and reiterating the poll question on commercial ride-outs.

:rolleyes:

And I seriously, seriously doubt the RNC's response to it (what, are they supposed to say nothing, for such a "major" event...which is it?) garnered 1/30th the airtime and play of the Edwards swoonfest that was in play all day yesterday. I watched TV all morning, listened to news radio at work and in my car all day and watched more coverage after coming home. It was what it was, and the only Bush mention I saw/heard was the statement of Bush doing the standard, canned thing of welcoming Edwards to the race and that they look forward to the campaign. I missed that RNC tidbit, faxed directly to CNN you mentioned.

:confused:

[BRussell]

Whatever. I'm just telling you what I saw. I didn't do an exhaustive study or anything. But it wasn't my imagination because others saw the same thing (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_07_04.php#003125). Sorry to disagree with you. I guess I'm just not in the spirit of things here. I'll try though: Which way do you hang your toilet paper? :D

[dviant]

Edwards always seemed like the "safest" VP choice to me. Never expected Kerry to pick anyone else. If there was a Campaign 2004 Yearbook his caption would read "least likely to upstage Kerry".

[Stroszek]

So, to my question: who, exactly, are these pundits and anchors referring to? WHAT people? Aren't Democrats - on balance - going to vote for Kerry/Edwards, no matter what, and Republicans do the same for Bush/Cheney? Are people assumed to be so coreless and without convictions that they're swayed by such things as the state/region some possible VP is from? Is that what is at play here?

I think that characterization is a bit simplified. Sure a lot of people already know who they are going to vote for. But the thing is...MOST PEOPLE DON'T VOTE!

So if you can end up with a likable candidate, and people actually get off of their lazy asses and go to the polls, that would be a very good thing.

If Democrats in the South, especially, get off of their asses and vote, that could be the difference between a Kerry and Bush win...

[Stroszek]

I'm from NC, and Edwards screwed us over here fourteen ways from Sunday. He is *NOT* liked here, *by the Democrats*. Basically, out of the four P/VP candidates, Kerry is the only that hasn't demonstrated a singular lack of clarity when it comes to what is 'truth'.

Not liked? 15,000 people showed up at the NC State campus to stand in 90+ degree heat (which I'm sure was MUCH more with the heat index plus 15,000 peoples worth of body heat) for one of the largest political rallys in state history. How many people would have had to turn out for him to be liked?

By the way, I'm from NC too...

[Moogs]

They were on 60 Minutes tonight bantering with Leslie Stahl... in the span of 20 minutes, making mostly small talk, they both proved they are more qualified thinkers and better able to communicate than Bush. Was kind of humorous actually.

[autodata]

Edwards is a pretty boy who has charisma, and that's about it, other than a nasty thirst for personal power and gain. At least with Cheney, we know where his loyalties lie. Edwards is a loose cannon, and frankly, the idea that he might get the Big Chair due to some accident with Kerry scares the beejeezus out of me. He *did* coauthor the Patriot Act.
Fortunately, an administration is made up of tens of people, and those folks are who you are really voting for.

[Stroszek]

...Edwards is a loose cannon, and frankly, the idea that he might get the Big Chair due to some accident with Kerry scares the beejeezus out of me. He *did* coauthor the Patriot Act...

Kickaha, do you have information to back this up? The only information that I have been able to find in regards to the authorship of the USA PATRIOT Act is that it was authored by Assistant Attorney General Viet D Dinh.

Just curious. If you're going to make allegations, I think it would be nice to back them up.

[Kickaha]

Not liked? 15,000 people showed up at the NC State campus to stand in 90+ degree heat (which I'm sure was MUCH more with the heat index plus 15,000 peoples worth of body heat) for one of the largest political rallys in state history. How many people would have had to turn out for him to be liked?

By the way, I'm from NC too...

Cool. :)

That rally wasn't for Edwards, it was for the Democratic Presidential ticket. Sure, the 'hometown team' effect probably had something to do with it, but I'd hazard that the rally would have been about that size if it hadn't been Edwards up there.

There's a huge ABB contingent in this area that were going to turn out no matter what. At this point, 99% of the people who don't like him are going to vote for the Dem ticket anyway, just because it isn't Bush.

[Kickaha]

Kickaha, do you have information to back this up? The only information that I have been able to find in regards to the authorship of the USA PATRIOT Act is that it was authored by Assistant Attorney General Viet D Dinh.

Just curious. If you're going to make allegations, I think it would be nice to back them up.

Sure, let me see what I can find.

[ast3r3x]

Let Me sum it up...people are sheep.

[Kickaha]

Let Me sum it up...people are sheep.

Give the man a Kewpie doll.

[billybobsky]

mmmm, sheep... the only mammal i knowingly will eat....

[Kickaha]

Kickaha, do you have information to back this up? The only information that I have been able to find in regards to the authorship of the USA PATRIOT Act is that it was authored by Assistant Attorney General Viet D Dinh.

Just curious. If you're going to make allegations, I think it would be nice to back them up.

Found it.

Edwards is part of the Senate Intelligence Committee, through whom the Patriot Act was sent before being offered as a Senate vote. So he *did* help co-author it.

OTOH, even I'm willing to admit that this in no way indicates what effect he had on it, which is what I'd be more interested to know. In the absence of such information, I'll withdraw the point as irrelevant. But he did help author it.



Of course, I'm more interested to know why he abstained voting on the gay marriage ban amendment.

[HOM]

Found it.

Edwards is part of the Senate Intelligence Committee, through whom the Patriot Act was sent before being offered as a Senate vote. So he *did* help co-author it.

OTOH, even I'm willing to admit that this in no way indicates what effect he had on it, which is what I'd be more interested to know. In the absence of such information, I'll withdraw the point as irrelevant. But he did help author it.
While in New Hampshire working on his campaign, the "official" word was the he was the Senator that insisted on adding sunset provision so the law would expire. I have no evidence to back it up besides what I heard and read.

Just thought I should point it out.

[Kickaha]

Just thought I should point it out.

Thanks for the info.

[Stroszek]

Of course, I'm more interested to know why he abstained voting on the gay marriage ban amendment.

Because there was no vote on the amendment. There was only a vote to stop debate on the subject. There were enough votes to stop the debate that neither his nor Kerry's votes were necessary. This allowed them to not take time out of campaigning to fly back to Washington to vote on the amendment, as well as to not have to cast a potentially devisive vote.

As I am gay, a citizen of North Carolina, and hoping to one day be allowed to marry, this issue is of major importance to me. I have been assured both by Senator Edwards and by his aides that he opposes the amendment.

Thank you for contacting me regarding HJ Res 56, legislation proposing an amendment to the Constitution related to marriage. I appreciate hearing from you.

<snip...paragraph pertaining to current Federal law>

<snip...paragraph pertaining to the purpose of HJ Res 56>

As a matter of personal belief, I do not support gay marriage, although I belive that gays and lesbians in committed relationships have both rights and responsibilities and should be entitled to partnerships benefits under our law.

I also have a deep reverence for our Constitution, and believe it should be amended only when absolutely necessary. I am not able to support this legislation. Pelase be assured that I will keep your strong viwers about this issue inmind as it is considered in the Senate.

Again, thank you for contacting me. Please feel free to keep in touch.

Rest assured, both Senator Edwards and Kerry have said publically that if the amendment came up for a final vote, they would both return to Washington to vote against it.