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Landlady just got careened into Android


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Landlady just got careened into Android
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hmurchison
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2012-05-04, 17:24

So my landlady was contemplating moving off her MVNO based phone provider to Verizon and was asking me about
the iPhone. Her boyfriend has an iPhone and they wanted to Facetime and message each other.

Well she just walked in with a Verizon bag and a HTC Rezound. Evidently they made the Rezound sound like a world beater. Even
hyped up the Beats by Dre audio.

It's not a bad looking phone but going through the UI IMO is just a mess. I didn't want to say anything negative because it's light years
ahead of her former phone but sheesh Verizon hyping up a 6 month Android phone like it's a Galaxy SIII is a bit disturbing.

One thing I do like about the iPhone is that it pretty much earned its success rather than been carrier driven. I don't have hatred for Android
but by and large it "is" a carrier driven platform.

omgwtfbbq
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Chinney
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2012-05-04, 18:11

Talking about "carrier driven", why is it that carriers advertise Android phones so heavily in comparison to the iPhone? I must assume that they get much bigger margins. Is that assumption correct?

Let my hat be your umbrella
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addison
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2012-05-04, 18:11

Not too shocked they pushed her towards an LTE device. Razr Maxx would have been a better choice in my opinion. A lot of these phones come with almost every widget available running. And HTC Sense ones are generally over the top ridiculous. Once you get rid of them it should be better. I think it's going to 4.0 this month too.
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torifile
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2012-05-04, 19:53

She should just take it back now before the frustration sets in and it's too late.
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drewprops
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2012-05-04, 20:22

Chinney I read an article recently which described how much AT&T lost with every iPhone, and how the Android units were actively being pushed by that carrier.


...
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Robo
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2012-05-04, 20:40

Ugh, going with Android is one thing, but even among Android phones, the Rezound was like the most gimmicky, flash-in-the-pan, gotta-sell-something-for-the-holidays phone ever. It's very much last year's model for this year's price, and last year's HTCs weren't even that great. Even just among HTCs, the HTC One series already feels like two years newer — much better build quality, less obtrusive Sense, and Android 4.0. The Rezound feels like, well, the iPhone 3G to the One's iPhone 4.

The Rhyme (Verizon's other holiday HTC) at least came with a more unique form factor and accessories. The Rezound is just...well, it's a warmed-over Sensation, which is in turn a warmed-over Evo. It's very much the last "hurrah" of their previous-generation, circa-2010 design language.

But it has Beats Audio. So.

don't call me the contender
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Robo
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2012-05-04, 20:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by addison View Post
Not too shocked they pushed her towards an LTE device. Razr Maxx would have been a better choice in my opinion.
The screen on the RAZR and RAZR MAXX is pretty bad, though. The Rezound has a higher-resolution display, and more importantly, it's an RGB "Super LCD" instead of an RGBG (PenTile) AMOLED.

don't call me the contender
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wtd
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2012-05-05, 03:59

Another reason for carriers to push Android phones, and one I see all the time in Canada, where the iPhone is available on pretty much every carrier: exclusivity.

If I walk into a carrier's shop and they really sell me on buying an iPhone, I'm going to turn around and walk out to comparison shop, because I know I can get an iPhone anywhere, and possibly with a better deal on the plan. Of course, by the time I've been into 3 or 4 stores, I'll just go with the last one anyway, because I'm tired of looking around and want instant gratification.

If I'm convinced that I must have an Android phone, the odds are the phone they sold me on is exclusive to that carrier, so to get it I sign up on the spot.

As soon as the iPhone went to Telus and Bell here, and Rogers/Fido lost exclusivity, Rogers/Fido stores lost any interest in actively selling it.
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Wrao
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2012-05-05, 16:58

I know a handful of people who got the Rezound. I think it was pretty heavily pushed and the deals were abundant for it. Case in point, I know one family that upgraded all of their iPhones to Rezounds basically for free. It might not be a good phone, but I think if it is still works as a phone then that's kind of all that matters for some.
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hmurchison
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2012-05-05, 20:03

This was far from free. $199.

I did like the screen on the Rezound but HTC's Sense UI is a mess. It just came to light that not even Google is making money on Android and it's clear why when your phone is being given away.

omgwtfbbq
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Chinney
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2012-05-05, 20:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Chinney I read an article recently which described how much AT&T lost with every iPhone, and how the Android units were actively being pushed by that carrier.


...
Hmmm. Is that because Apple charges so much up front for the iPhone compared with other manufacturers? I'd like to know more of the mechanics of smart phone marketing, because it all seems quite mysterious to me. I suppose that given Apple's unique position, there are really (at least) two separate markets at the 'wholesale' level - Apple and then everyone else (with maybe Blackberry and Nokia/Windows being distinguished somewhat within the 'everyone else' category).

It is interesting to speculate on how this is all going to play out in the long run.

Let my hat be your umbrella

Last edited by Chinney : 2012-05-06 at 12:42. Reason: Minor correction
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drewprops
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2012-05-06, 08:50

http://www.slashgear.com/verizon-har...port-05226378/

Also:

http://tablet.pcmag.com/?ref=297499&...04002%2C00.asp

Sorry for janky link, they served it up weird to my pad.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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addison
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2012-05-06, 13:22

The iPhone does have a bigger subsidy than other phones. You can find an android phone with a similar list price but carriers negotiate discounts. They get none from Apple. It's a financial burden to carry. Just ask Sprint. It's also why USCC decided not to sell it.

And and as soon as there is an LTE iPhone there reps will recommend it.
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hmurchison
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2012-05-06, 23:05

Yeah I think it's primarily about the LTE. Verizon's LTE network here in the Seattle area isn't bad and clearly ahead of AT&T.
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Kraetos
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2012-05-16, 16:50

It has nothing to do with LTE. Verizon hypes LTE because the iPhone doesn't have it. When the iPhone does have it they'll find something else to hype.

Why is iPhone poison to carriers? There are three main reasons.

1) Carriers have zero control over iPhone. They can't recover the subsidy through crapware. They can't skin it to differentiate it over the iPhone you get from the competing carrier across the street. There is no good answer to "why should I buy iPhone on carrier X instead of carrier Y?"

2) iPhone's subsidy is huge. Carriers make a lot more off Android phones than iPhones. iPhone really is lose-lose for carriers: either you have it and make less money off it than your other phones, or you don't have it and get thwomped by carriers that do.

3) iPhones work better, longer. Very few Android phones ship with the current version of Android. Most are lucky to get one update, much less continual updates. Conversely, all iPhones to date have been supported for a minimum of three years. Want the newest version of Android? Buy a new phone.

Android is a carriers wet dream. A good enough OS being shipped by firms which are struggling to remain profitable. A big fat profit margin because the manufacturers compete on costs. They get outdated almost instantly which means more hardware sales. They are "open," which means more crapware, which means more profit.

Who cares if Android is downright hostile to users? It's really their only choice outside iPhone (you hear that? It's the synchronous blood boiling of all seven Windows Phone fans) and there's profit to be had!

The iPhone model pushes carriers closer to being dumb pipes that compete on network quality and price. It's expensive and time consuming to upgrade your network, and competing on price is the destroyer of profit margins everywhere. In a world where carriers are dumb pipes, the handset makers rule the roost, and that is Verizon's worst nightmare. iPhone represents everything the carriers don't want.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
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pscates2.0
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2012-05-16, 17:00

True. My first iPhone in 2007 was nothing like my previous cell phone in any way...including the activation, what came in it, the needless complexity and AT&T branding and preinstalled nonsense.

Apple is doing it the way it should be done, and carriers - like the music, movie and TV industry - don't like it when their playpen gets peed in. Especially by outfits who "have no business" playing in that space.

As many customers and users Apple has made happy over the years, they've surely pissed off just as many execs, sales and marketing personnel at the cell carriers, record companies and the rest.

Good. Someone needs to drag these clowns into the 21st century and a more consumer-friendly way of going about things.
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Kraetos
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2012-05-16, 17:34

Yep. It's worth noting that Android would be nothing without the carriers. Android had just about zero traction until Verizon threw its weight behind it. Then Samsung came out with the Galaxy and it started to gain a lot of traction worldwide because of Samsung's numerous carrier relationships.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope

Last edited by Kraetos : 2012-05-16 at 18:39. Reason: hadn't seen the stats recently
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pscates2.0
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2012-05-16, 18:00

That's because it's a ridiculous, maddening piece of shit that nobody knows how/what to do with. You spend money on some "cutting edge", (this week's) hyped model and, out of the box, it's running an OS from a year or so ago and, you later find out, that's about as new or current as it's ever going to get because this version can't run on that device from that carrier because of this firmware and that whatever, blah, blah...

Who, fully aware of this sort of stuff, would purposely buy into that silliness? And even if you're not the kind of user who cares about that sort of thing, you're still setting yourself up for some level of aggravation or disappointment.

Oh that's right, I forgot...it's "open"!



Yes, and so is my fly when I take a pee...

Say what you want about Apple, the iPhone and iOS...but when you buy one, you know you're not going to be "left behind" in a matter of months, or sit on last year's OS forever because of reasons completely out of your control and understanding.

What it really boils down to is this: if I'm going to drop $199 or more on a device I use every single day (and more than any Mac I've ever owned), guess what? I like knowing that I'm in the pipe for any and all updates and enhancements for at least the next two years (probably more), with no ifs/ands/buts or stupid caveats/exceptions that I have no control or recourse over. Not to mention having a vibrant, thriving app and development (and accessory) community at my reach.

Those are important to me, for the money/time involved, and only one outfit is offering that. So I choose accordingly, and in almost five years I've never once regretted or second-guessed myself.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2012-05-16 at 18:11.
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addison
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2012-05-17, 10:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
It has nothing to do with LTE. Verizon hypes LTE because the iPhone doesn't have it. When the iPhone does have it they'll find something else to hype.
Doubt it. Verizon hypes 4G because they spent $9.4 billion just for the initial spectrum plus a couple more billion for the AWS spectrum. Now they are spending north of $5 billion per year to deploy it. Can't blame them for wanting to monetize that especially when the initial take up has been below some expectations.

I do agree about the iPhone subsidy but that will be dealt with either through negotiations with Apple or raising fees and rates on customers. It can't be dealt with by a few salesmen here and there. Plus I'm in these stores somewhat frequently to check out new phones and I still see reps automatically blurt out iPhone when a customer doesn't know what they want.
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Kraetos
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2012-05-17, 15:52

Every Verizon rep I've encountered (my old job required frequent interaction with them) either brazenly pushed the latest and greatest Droid, or they sheepishly recommended iPhone, as if they would get in trouble for doing so.

That was about 6 months ago. Is it different now? Was it different before? Because according to CNN, Verizon's stance is that iPhones are "outdated," and this echoes my personal experience, and I am not convinced Verizon will change their tune once an LTE iPhone comes out.

(Never mind that most LTE phones run Android 2.3... yeah, not outdated at all...)

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
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pscates2.0
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2012-05-17, 16:02

I went to a Verizon store with a friend and her mom several months back. I'd never really been, and was just tagging along for the ride and all. But basically the people there recommended and pushed pretty much everything - including a tin can in the parking lot - that wasn't an iPhone.

They posters and signage were around, as were demo units of both the iPhone and iPad. So I assumed the joint wasn't entirely hostile to the product. But the two different reps we dealt with seemed borderline dickheaded when they saw my iPhone (and when my friend had her's out too). Naturally he pulls out his paperbook-sized something-or-other model and it just looks like a box of Crayons threw up all over the screen. And he kinda had that "I'm doing something simple but making it look complicated and 'heavy lifting' so I properly convey the seriousness of this phone, and how it's not for you Apple pussies out there. Real work, you see?"

If I'd rolled my eyes any more, they would've popped out of my head...

A friend of a friend of a friend did the same thing a while back, showing me his phone and the only real thing he could tout was "this screen's a lot bigger", and some ringtone acquisition.

Yeah, I'm gonna go right out and chuck my iPhone so I can deal with ugly icons at 4.5" and download any Limp Korn ringtone I want!







Uh, no.

Smartphones have actually made people more stupid, ironically enough. Is that how it works? Are they actually zapping our brains and sucking our intelligence out, little by little? Because I swear, as a culture, we're getting dumber by the week...but these $99 phones can launch/control a NASA mission FFS. It kinda terrifies me if I stop long enough to think about it.
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addison
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2012-05-17, 17:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Every Verizon rep I've encountered (my old job required frequent interaction with them) either brazenly pushed the latest and greatest Droid, or they sheepishly recommended iPhone, as if they would get in trouble for doing so.

That was about 6 months ago. Is it different now? Was it different before? Because according to CNN, Verizon's stance is that iPhones are "outdated," and this echoes my personal experience, and I am not convinced Verizon will change their tune once an LTE iPhone comes out.
Yet they sell way more iPhones than other devices so it's kind of meaningless. To me they are promoting LTE more than discouraging the iPhone. Other carriers have different goals. Over at Sprint they shove iPhones down your throat. They have a kiosk outside the Apple store here where reps stand around holding iPhone boxes trying to get customers. Is that better than what Verizon is doing? AT&T did the same thing for years. They didn't even carry android devices for years. Now they are more diversified than any other carrier but they will still sell more iPhones each quarter.

I doubt Apple gives a crap about any carrier trying to openly hype a competing product over the iPhone. The biggest threat to them right now is any assault on the subsidy model.
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drewprops
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2012-05-17, 23:22

Hey, this has been bugging me.... can we change the word "steering" in this thread title into "steered"?

ta



...
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torifile
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2012-05-17, 23:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Hey, this has been bugging me.... can we change the word "steering" in this thread title into "steered"?

ta



...
I thought the same thing this afternoon but didn't want to be the douchebag who said it.
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hmurchison
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2012-05-18, 00:18

Please change it. I groaned when I saw the typo.
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Kraetos
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2012-05-22, 11:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by addison View Post
Yet they sell way more iPhones than other devices so it's kind of meaningless. To me they are promoting LTE more than discouraging the iPhone.
I mean... they are definitely discouraging iPhone... there it is, in plain language, in a national newspaper: iPhone is outdated.
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addison
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2012-05-23, 09:37

From the article...

Quote:
"The only drawback to the iPhone is it doesn't have 4G, and Verizon is really pushing 4G," another rep said on the phone. "Don't get me wrong, the iPhone is a great phone. It just costs the company a lot of money for returns when customers find out that a faster 4G network is available and the iPhone's only on 3G."

I initially told half the representatives that I wanted "a new smartphone," and half that I was interested in an iPhone.
When I said up front that I wanted an iPhone, none tried to talk me out of it. But when I followed up by asking if it was the best smartphone, they all said no.

"If that's what you want, absolutely we'll order it," one rep said over the phone. "But my recommendation is 4G. I'd want the fastest, best technology that's not going to be outdated when I buy it."
Doesn't exactly sound like they are giving people the hard sell to me. You ask for an iPhone they give you one. Like I said before they are pushing LTE which is a huge improvement over their 3G where the speeds are pretty bad. I wouldn't want to sign a two year contract with a 3G phone from them at this point.

I have my personal line from Sprint who has the absolute worst data speeds in the country. I usually get around 200 -300 kb/s and I've seen ping times as high as 1000ms. Why would I ever get an iPhone with them at this point? But that's all they shove down your throat at their stores.

Carriers spent years pushing the iPhone as the only choice. Nobody complained about that. Now they aren't doing that anymore. If people don't want to be offered any choices maybe they should go to the Apple store to make their purchase.
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Eugene
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2012-06-12, 00:18

Your landlady had a chance to own a Lamborghini instead of an HTC

http://phandroid.com/2012/06/09/lamb...rocodile-skin/

Wait, is that a Lamborghini phone or a Cardassian tricorder? I'm really not sure...

Also...Android 2.3, f-yeah.

"your post tagline/signature is lame. I'm disappointed, you are usually better than that." -Brave Ulysses
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Wrao
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2012-06-12, 12:16

Speaking of Android. Where are they? I was doing a lot of traveling this past week. Several airports and hotels, a few major cities, crowded public areas where people are standing around using their phones a lot, is the point. While I obviously didn't take specific count of the devices I saw or how it compares to the amount of people I saw. I still feel pretty confident saying that, of what I saw the overwhelming majority was iPhones, to a degree that the 'non-iPhone' devices are almost not even worth mentioning.

It was like this at every airport terminal, every hotel, every plane and every venue. I'm not about to say that the Android marketshare stats are bogus or anything but it is weird is all because Android's marketshare lead _is_ pretty substantial to the degree where you really think you'd be seeing them 'in the wild' more frequently than you do iPhones. I think maybe Android users just don't idly sit around playing with their phones as much as iPhone users? (which actually might have some merit to it given the big gap in mobile browser and app usage between the platforms). Seems like that might be the case if most Android users basically don't even use their phones as smartphones that you'd be less likely to see them 'out' while people are sitting around killing time.
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Eugene
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2012-06-12, 12:44

I don't actively go out looking for Android phones, but the guy sitting beside me at a Prometheus screening was using some sort of Android phone.

Your last assumption is basically true. iOS user session time dominates Android's. This of course has a major impact on app downloads and ad impressions. So not only do devs hate the fragmentation in the Android "ecosystem," but its users are less active as well.

"your post tagline/signature is lame. I'm disappointed, you are usually better than that." -Brave Ulysses
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