[Brave Ulysses]

Coming up on 1 year of Tim Cook as official CEO and I think we are beginning to see differences in his vision and version of Apple compared to Steve's.

What have you noticed?

I've noticed a more open and accessible Apple, one willing to work with customers and developers. An Apple with a little bit more of a "bigger picture" in the world view (charity, green emphasis, worker conditions). But I've also seen an Apple that can't keep a secret, that seems a little bit more afraid of taking risks, that seems a little more careful with everything they do, and also an Apple that is in my opinion, losing it cool factor. I look at these recent "Genius" ads and I can not for the life of me believe that Steve would have ever approved them. They are the equivalent of "Dude you're getting a dell".

I feel confident in Apple's business sense and their future strength but I think they are quickly losing the somewhat intangible qualities that Steve instilled and what made Apple Apple.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses I've noticed a more open and accessible Apple, one willing to work with customers and developers.

I dunno, man. Squaring the enforced sandboxing with "willing to work with developers" seems a bit of a stretch. They don't seem particularly receptive to the valid concern that the Mac App Store is essentially becoming exclusive to apps that only need superficial access to the system. Utilities? Out of the question.

Quietly (apparently — we haven't even had confirmation) killing off iCloud APIs for Windows and Safari for Windows isn't that cool, either.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses But I've also seen an Apple that can't keep a secret, that seems a little bit more afraid of taking risks, that seems a little more careful with everything they do, and also an Apple that is in my opinion, losing it cool factor.

Yeah. I'm starting to get worried about that. Cook isn't an innovator, which is fine. But Forstall, for instance, is too sure of himself to question and reinvent the iOS platform; to stay hungry and foolish, as Jobs would say.

But! For better or worse, we truly won't see the effects of that for years to come. Those pundits talking about how Apple is already losing its luster are getting way ahead of themselves.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by chucker I dunno, man. Squaring the enforced sandboxing with "willing to work with developers" seems a bit of a stretch. They don't seem particularly receptive to the valid concern that the Mac App Store is essentially becoming exclusive to apps that only need superficial access to the system. Utilities? Out of the question. Quietly (apparently — we haven't even had confirmation) killing off iCloud APIs for Windows and Safari for Windows isn't that cool, either.

True... but at the same time, they extended the deadline for sandboxing 2 (or 3?) times. I think Steve was a lot more "line in the sandish" and would only back off he REALLY fucked up or recognized he was just being unreasonable.

Apple is also appearing at the black hat security conference for the first time.

Yeah. I'm starting to get worried about that. Cook isn't an innovator, which is fine. But Forstall, for instance, is too sure of himself to question and reinvent the iOS platform; to stay hungry and foolish, as Jobs would say.

I'm curious to see how Forstall plays out in the next year or two. Apple has not emphasized him at the executive level as much as I expected them to do so after Steve's passing and I get the impression that the insider reports may be true and he may not be very well liked.

I know it is early, (and I've been accused of being paranoid, so there's that) but I do think we are already seeing signs of Apple backing off of taking risks, of focusing more on gradual, controlled change, and of reacting to market pressures.


I really think the "Genius" ads are a scary sign of today's Apple. I just think they are awful.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses True... but at the same time, they extended the deadline for sandboxing 2 (or 3?) times. I think Steve was a lot more "line in the sandish" and would only back off he REALLY fucked up or recognized he was just being unreasonable.

Yeah.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Apple is also appearing at the black hat security conference for the first time.

I'd rather they hadn't. Reading off a whitepaper and not allowing questions really doesn't make for much of an appearance. I don't know what possessed them to do that, since it sure didn't improve the perception of how they treat security. It's puzzling.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses I'm curious to see how Forstall plays out in the next year or two. Apple has not emphasized him at the executive level as much as I expected them to do so after Steve's passing and I get the impression that the insider reports may be true and he may not be very well liked.

Right.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses I really think the "Genius" ads are a scary sign of today's Apple. I just think they are awful.

I don't mind the somewhat tacky humor in the airplane one. What I do mind, though, is the change from "the Mac will empower you to do great stuff*" to "the average user like you is kinda dumb, but luckily, our Geniuses aren't". What is this, Best Buy?

*) See how I worked The Power To Be Your Best in there?

[torifile]

I think that we need to see at least one holiday season* from Cook before we can make any verdicts. I, too, am worried about the "vision thing" without Jobs. But the devices and services being rolled out now were around under Jobs. We need to see what happens with the next iPhone and iPad.

* Last season doesn't count because the holiday was no doubt already planned out.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by torifile I think that we need to see at least one holiday season* from Cook before we can make any verdicts. I, too, am worried about the "vision thing" without Jobs. But the devices and services being rolled out now were around under Jobs. We need to see what happens with the next iPhone and iPad. * Last season doesn't count because the holiday was no doubt already planned out.

I'm not sure I can see how the holiday quarter matters. It will without a doubt be a blockbuster quarter. iPads are going to be a massive Christmas gift this year, never mind if an iPad mini is released an then it looks like the iPhone 5 or whatever will be released and will at least be a bigger upgrade than the 4s was over the 4 and will break records. New iMacs as well and recent updates to the portables and there is no question apple is goin to crush it.

I just don't think Tim cook has any influence over that yet. It was always going p be a massive quarter. I think holiday quarter 2013 will be the true test. Which I guess makes me think apple may have an apple tv lineups up for then.

[pscates2.0]

Jobs or not, Apple is the one company I don't worry about. Some of the changes I see are both refreshing, and encouraging, to me.

I think enough of the good parts of Jobs remain there to drive the company (the overall vision and the pursuit of cleanness and simplicity). But without his harping, unbending nature and control freak tendencies present, they may have the flexibility to pursue or try some things they couldn't before.

I see that as a possible good thing. Steve wasn't perfect, and he probably had as many misses and goofball ideas as anyone (we just never heard about them). But as long as people like Cook, Schiller, Ive and others are there, I think his vision, and legacy, is safe and secure.

I expect awesome things from Apple in the years to come. I think he left his imprint there, where it counts, more than any of us outsiders could ever realize.

It hasn't even been a year, and we all read about how he had his fingers in things that would cover the next four or so years. It's simply too early, IMO.

Ask this stuff again in 2015-2016 for a more accurate, telling answer. Because that's probably how long it'll take to truly know what a "Jobs-less Apple" is made of.

[Partial]

The biography constantly talks about companies losing their way when the founder is gone. I worry about that big time. The financials of Apple are going to be solid for at least another year or two. I could easily see them losing their cool factor, though, as they become more corporate.

[PB PM]

Looking at Apple's history, without Jobs, I cannot see the current trend of growth continuing. Job's made Apple what it was, without him, it isn't that, plain and simple. You can already see it happening, but the real effects of the change wont be seen until the last of Job's ideas are old and dated.

[Jason]

Steve Jobs was Apple, despite what Apple pundits keep saying about 'It's in their DNA now" etc.

Yeah, right.

I think for the next two years, they're fine - rock solid.
After that, I believe things may change dramatically.

[drewprops]

Name for me 5 well known companies over 100 years old that have maintained their original direction and momentum and spirit, and for whom there is an abiding ardor.

Even the Apple of 4 years ago, under a still-functional Steve Jobs, wasn't quite the Apple of 10 years ago.

The company most certainly has changed already, and to use a metaphor that seems fitting: it will only change more now that the Disciples are left to guess at what He would have done.

...

[billybobsky]

IBM isn't doing badly or GE or...

Companies can, in fact, last if they are adaptable.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by billybobsky IBM isn't doing badly or GE or... Companies can, in fact, last if they are adaptable.

I don't think anyone wants to see Apple become IBM or GE though.



I'm very curious to see what direction Apple takes with the Mac, and specifically the iMac (and other desktops). They don't seem to be willing to innovate on this front anymore. They are ok with it being an evolving segment but I think that is wrong. They have the potential to grow there, but they need to bring some fresh ideas to it. If Steve was still around I could easily see this being one of his attention shifting projects after a year or two of emphasis on the iPad and iPhone. How do we reinvent the desktop computer? What are its inherent benefits? Why do people still use them? What advantages are there? And how can we make it more attractive and a better experience?

A new "iMac" for the 21st century perhaps.

[Kraetos]

I don't think there are many more "innovations" to be made in the desktop computing space, just gradual refinement.

The future is mobile, where Apple utterly dominates. They could coast for a decade on what they have now. (But they wont.) As for the future? I have complete faith in Ives and Forestall to be the product visionaries that Apple needs, while Cook handles the operations side of the business.

I'm confident that Jobs' fear of standing still has been instilled in his lieutenants.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Kraetos I don't think there are many more "innovations" to be made in the desktop computing space, just gradual refinement.

perhaps in the traditional sense. But people for a long time are going to be sitting at desks, with a computer in front of them, and that computer will have some inherent advantages. I don't think anyone has really taken a fresh approach to this. I'm not convinced that computers are just "trucks" and mobile devices are cars.


What would be possible with a touch screen desktop if it was created around that feature? (like the patent for an articulated touchscreen iMac a few years ago)

Just saying.... although it's off topic.

[pscates2.0]

Desktop machines being what they are, I don't know what could come to them at this point that would be "the next big thing". Mobility/portability seem to be where it's at, for sure.

But desktops - and by that I do mean towers, iMacs, Mac minis and other things that plug in and are not designed to be used on-the-go, in multiple locations - will simply get more powerful and capable with the standard advances in processors, and perhaps even display tech (Retina whatever and HD this and that).

We talk about the touch thing, but it would require a shift (literally) in how we use and interact with our desktop displays. They'd become more like drafting tables, positioned at a lowered, angled setting so we're above them, with our arms resting down on them, like those Cintiq tablet/screens. Nobody is going to sit for 8+ hours a day and manipulate their screens via touch in the current setup (monitor 18+ away and completely vertical). Your arms won't make it 45 minutes, let alone a full workday.

Here again, I think Apple is doing it right already...bringing "touch" to the Mac OS via gestures performed on a horizontal, stationary trackpad (just bringing all the features and capabilities from their notebooks over to the desktop, and sharing the same rules, approaches).

As for hardware and advances, I think desktop machines are what they are and are indeed the full-featured, "do everything" workhorses that we don't expect from our mobile/handheld devices.

Any real revolutions or "next big leaps" will probably come via software (location and communication-oriented improvements and breakthroughs), as, on the hardware side, it's pretty much accepted - and expected - that things just get faster, bigger, sharper as time goes on. As technology and manufacturing advances, those things wind up taking care of themselves.

I think as long as people know they can always sit down at a powerful, full-featured desktop and launch Office, a CAD application, the Adobe products, Final Cut and the like, they're happy.

That some of those things are moving over to the mobile/handheld side is where it gets interesting.

I kinda do buy Jobs' truck/car analogy. It's a good one, and it makes a lot of sense. So many people I've switched to the Mac over the past 4-5 years, if I had it to do all over again I wouldn't bypassed the Mac completely (it's been MacBooks and iMacs) and, instead, put them on an iPad. For the things most of these people are doing - surfing, emailing, Facebook, games, iTunes/music, photos, etc. - why present them the expense and overhead of a full-on desktop OS and file system and all the rest?

They're total car drivers. I, on the other hand, still require some truck use, so I have to pay attention to that side of things a bit more, still.

Apple can, and will, manage both. And they'll adjust their focus and output to meet the demand. Along the way, people are going to feel shortchanged or "let down" at times, but I don't think "the old way" is ever going away. It'll get updated as needed, but Apple can do both because even as much as they love iOS and all this new stuff, they know the Mac isn't going anywhere and that gazillions of loyal, talented people rely on them for the things they do. And that will be the case for many, many years to come.

[Kraetos]

Touch computing will come to our desks, all right, but not in the form of a touchscreen iMac. It will come in the form of an iMac-sized iPad.

The truck/car analogy is spot on. It's actually almost too accurate. 10 years from now the vast majority of computer users (which, in 2022, will be referred to as "people") will never touch a "desktop computer" or even a laptop. Tablets and smartphones and touch interfaces are going to completely supplant what we think of today as "computing."

Computers with mice and keyboards will be for heavy lifting. For professionals who compute all day. But for most people? For the purposes of gaming, shopping, social networking, media management, and word processing? Tablets. Tablets everywhere.

Needless to say, this bodes very well for Apple. The big question is, will they jump start the next computing revolution? There's really no way to tell, but it's also not something that's going to happen for a decade or so. Smartphones + Tablets + Cloud will define computing for this decade.

[torifile]

The Next Big Thing in desktop computing has to be the ability to move from here to there without a hitch. By that I mean things like what Jobs said in that speech back in 1997 (around minute 15) where he starts talking about networks and how they will extend the desktop. I know it's been said before, but I think that iCloud is the first steps in that direction.

If Apple stops making iCloud better, then there's a problem.

[zippy]

I agree.

Do you remember when there was talk about using an iPod as a 'take your computer setup wherever you go' solution? I think it was from an Apple patent application. The idea was that you could store information on your iPod such that when you docked it to someone else's Mac, you could log in and operate just as if you were sitting at your own Mac. It would even make your applications available by quickly downloading them.

I don't know if there is still a goal to provide this type of interaction via another person's Mac, but I definitely see us moving closer to that goal across our own devices. I think we are headed towards being able to pick up any of our devices: MacBook, iPad, iPhone... and get what we need, when we need it, where we need it - without the tradeoffs or limitations that we currently have.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by zippy I agree. Do you remember when there was talk about using an iPod as a 'take your computer setup wherever you go' solution? I think it was from an Apple patent application.

It (Home on iPod) was actually a marketed but ultimately canned feature in 10.3 Panther.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by chucker It (Home on iPod) was actually a marketed but ultimately canned feature in 10.3 Panther.

Ah yes, that's it. Good memory/Google-fu. I think the talk was that it would go farther than just your home directory - like access to apps as well. Not right off the bat, but later. I think we are getting there - or to an alternate, possibly better, solution.

[Brave Ulysses]

Looks like the new Genius ads are not getting played anymore. They were awful.... and I still think they scream Tim Cook influence..... he seems to have a less cool..... more mainstream and dumbed down idea of Apple. It's been my impression of him and these ads definitely are a major step in that direction.

[Xaqtly]

Yeah, it seems to me like those ads had no bite at all to them, and that just seems like something Steve wouldn't have approved. In fact this whole "run a sort of mediocre ad then pull it a week later" thing smacks of Microsoft. And the one with the guy who just bought a computer that's "like a Mac" felt like a Dell ad. Very sort of pasty and bland. Nothing in that ad made me want to run out and buy a Mac.

It's starting to look like Steve's lifelong fight against mediocrity is not a fight that is fought with equal vigor by Tim Cook.

[pscates2.0]

They were a bit weak and pedestrian, but I don't think they're going to bring the company down or anything.

In the past, I pushed - more than anyone, I think - for Apple to "run more commercials". But fast-forward to today, and it's almost as though the iPod, iPhone and iPad are doing the work for them, in real life. I know so many people in my own life who've switched to the Mac because of their experience with one of the iDevices.

I like commercials, done well, but I didn't like this latest batch and I didn't like even like half of the "I'm a Mac..." offerings. Those got played out and tiresome very quick.

I think Apple's best (Mac) commercials are the ones that simply show the product in the most flattering way possible, and attach a few words and a catchphrase.

With the Internet, Apple Stores in hundreds of locations and the iDevices creating such interest, Apple almost has a self-running marketing program in place, requiring little output or effort from them in that space. It's easy for anyone curious or interested to find, and learn, about Macs and Apple in general. I no longer feel the way I did 10 years ago, when things were completely different and Apple was having to rely on places like CompUSA, Sears (remember that?) and Circuit City to push their stuff. They're as mainstream and accepted as a company can get, so I don't think they need to be spending gobs on cutesy, trying-too-hard 30-second spots. In 2012, there are more ways to reach, and appeal to, others than just "running commercials" (especially if they're nothing special or unique, or wind up creating big "WTF?!" backlash).

Those who are inclined to seek out and learn about the company and their products will. Others may require some prodding or encouragement by friends, relatives or co-workers. And there there are those who, no matter what, will never be interested or buy anything from the company.

It's the second group among those three where the growth and excitement lie. As in real life, don't worry about the extremes...they'll either take care of themselves or are beyond help/convincing. It's the open middle ground, with people who aren't opposed to switching over or undoing all they'd done/known for years, where Apple's big, excitement movement and growth reside. It's been my first-hand experience that those are the ones who go "all in" and really embrace change and a new way. If all they've known are hassles and being scare of their computer, it's really neat to see them not be that way (and, even better, to no longer have to hear them constantly bitch and whine about their latest glitches or problems every time you see them).

A handful of "eh..." commercials aren't going to wreck anything long-term. It's just a shame something so middling and predictable was ever signed off on and put out for public consumption. The marketing landscape is cluttered and filled to the brim with cloying Chandler Bing/Ferris Bueller types acting all snappy and stammering for chuckles, so good riddance. Those commercials, at best, say "HP trying to be hip", IMO. FFS, the first thing that entered my mind upon seeing them two weeks ago was that "dude, you got a Dell!" knob-knocker. That can't be good.

Fact is, we've become spoiled and expect such ridiculously high, perfect things at this point. When they stumble or piss the bed a bit, it's a bigger story or "miss" than it needs to be. People just aren't used to seeing lameness or mediocrity from some companies, directors, bands, etc., and when they do it gets attention. Hopefully this is the weakest, most "whatever..." thing Apple offers up for a while.

[torifile]

What a bunch of chicken littles we've all become!

[pscates2.0]

Some, no doubt.

I'm not worried at all. I'm not drawing conclusions on a three half-ass commercials vs. the past 10 years (and the months and years lying ahead) like some online are doing. I think these commercials are weak, but I've been stunned to see so many people assigning them such heavy meanings.

Every other tech company out there would love to have Apple's "failures" or slip-ups.

The day I start to "worry a little", it'll be for a serious, concrete reason (or ongoing series of reasons) and it'll be warranted. Until then, these little blips on the radar are just that.

The man hasn't even been dead and gone for one year yet, but, to hear from some quarters, you'd think Apple was in its final months. And that its from supposedly Apple-friendly sites, writers, analysts, etc. makes it somehow more grating than to hear it from the Dvoraks and Thurrotts of the world (because goodness knows their track record isn't worth a shit on calling/predicting anything related to Apple). I expect them to be off-base and say something wrong with every breath.

I'm just not willing to a) put that much on one man (and ignore all that he surely took efforts to leave behind) and b) that things change that quick. We'll all likely be old, greying fartknockers before we see another "Apple in crisis" period.

I'm wager a handsome sum on it.

[addison]

The funny thing about the "Genius" ads is that it's not the job of a Genius to help people with software issues. That falls to a Creative. It caused a bit of a stir among employees. Of course the way the customer is depicted in the ads is pretty spot on. Spend an afternoon one weekend in the store and you'll hear some really stupid questions. It's the price of getting big I guess. Either way, they were hideous but the new commercial for Siri with Martin Scorsese is excellent.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by torifile What a bunch of chicken littles we've all become!

Well don't extrapolate my observations about the new ads to infer that I think the sky is falling at Apple. That's not the case at all. Paul said it, we've come to expect excellence from Apple. The Genius ads don't measure up, and the way they were pulled so quickly after airing really is a recent-era Microsoft move. And the reason Microsoft does that is because they are throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Apple has never done that because they've always had more of a vision, more of a specific message to convey, and that's why this is a little troubling.

Let's put it this way, it wasn't Cook who brought Apple from near bankruptcy to where they are now. Cook is obviously excellent at what he does, but he's not the idea man. That was Jobs. If it were Cook that were put in charge in 1998, would Apple be where they are right now? I don't think so. Cook excelled at supporting Jobs, but I don't think he's excelling at being Jobs. You can't blame him for that, I can't think of anybody who could be Jobs.

I'm really just hoping this isn't going to become a thing with Apple. The Siri ads are still good, it's just a little disheartening that those genius ads were approved by the people who allegedly knew Steve the best and have sworn that they're going to run Apple the way he did. You know?

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by addison The funny thing about the "Genius" ads is that it's not the job of a Genius to help people with software issues. That falls to a Creative.

Right. As an ex-Apple Retail employee and someone who hangs out with Apple retail employees regularly, that was the main problem with these ads. An Apple Genius doesn't do any of the things portrayed in those ads. In the plane and the labor day ad, he was serving the role of creative, and in the "basically" ad, he was a specialist or possibly an expert. But not once was the Genius doing an actual Genius task, because lets face it: Geniuses deal with problems with your Mac, which is not the face you want to show the public!

One of my friends who is a Genius recounted a story about how the day after the ads aired, a customer made a genius appointment and when he came in, it turns out he was just looking for iPhoto training. The Genius, aware of the misleading ads, politely apologized that the ad misled him, and explained that if he wanted training like he saw in the ad, he would need to purchase One to One, and get an appointment with a Creative. Needless to say, the customer was pissed, and I doubt this was an isolated incident.

That's why these ads were pulled. Not because they were "bad," because they actually weren't terrible compared to your typical Olympics commercial. No, I suspect they were axed because they completely misrepresented the role of a Genius and set all the wrong expectations for Apple Retail. It honestly seems like whoever wrote these ads had no idea how an actual Apple Store operates.

The ads set the wrong expectations for the Apple Store experience, and one of the few things that Apple Retail managers are consistent about is the importance of setting the right expectations. The ads undermined one of the fundamental operational tenets of Apple Retail. It's unbelievable they ever made it to air.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Right. As an ex-Apple Retail employee and someone who hangs out with Apple retail employees regularly, that was their main complaint. An Apple Genius doesn't do any of the things portrayed in those ads. In the plane and the labor day ad, he was serving the role of creative, and in the "basically" ad, he was a specialist or possibly an expert. But not once was the Genius doing an actual Genius task, because lets face it: Geniuses deal with problems with your Mac, which is not the face you want to show the public! One of my friends who is a Genius recounted a story about how the day after the ads aired, a customer made a genius appointment and when he came in, it turns out he was just looking for iPhoto training. The Genius, aware of the misleading ads, politely apologized that the ad misled him, and explained that if he wanted training like he saw in the ad, he would need to purchase One to One, and get an appointment with a Creative. Needless to say, the customer was pissed, and I doubt this was an isolated incident. That's why these ads were pulled. Not because they were "bad," because they actually weren't terrible compared to your typical Olympics commercial. But because they completely misrepresented the role of a Genius and set all the wrong expectations for Apple Retail. It honestly seems like whoever wrote these ads had no idea how an actual Apple Store operates.

I think they were how you describe and just plain simply bad.

Dumbing down the brand.