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+1 for the Rainbow Team!
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2007-10-20, 02:29

The fictional Rainbow Team, that is. (There. Now those of you who don't care, don't have to read it.)

Note: I'm not going to tag any of this as spoilers, as the series is, um, over, and it's all headlines on many major news sites, anyway. But be ye warned, here there be spoilers.

Harry Potter might be over, but that doesn't mean the thrilling denouments are. J. K. Rowling seems intent on shedding light on her characters until everything is, um, denoued.

One denoument in particular has gotten a lot of attention:

Dumbledore is OMGWTFgay.

I knew it. Not only because my highly developed gaydar has never failed me yet (well...there was that one time ), but because Rowling has always shown particular care in crafting a diverse cast (the student body of Hogwarts, for instance, so perfectly matches the ethnic composition of England that obsessed fans were able to predict the ethnicities of some students before they were even mentioned in the plot); and when coupled with the anti-prejudice themes of the books, non-straight characters became conspicuous in their absense.

Plus, Dumbledore was pretty flamboyant. When we first meet him, he's wearing a lavender robe, for crying out loud.

Oh, and the object of Dumbledore's (unrequited) affection? His once-friend and eventual rival Grindelwald. Reread the last book, and tell me you honestly could not have seen that coming.

I kinda wish she had mentioned it in the books, though. I hope the reason she didn't mention it was because Dumbledore and Grindelwald's relationship never really entered the story, and not because she was burned out on controversy, or didn't want to hurt US sales. But considering Dumbledore and Grindelwald's friendship-turned-rivalry did play a major part of the last book, I kinda have a hunch it was the latter.

It's funny to see this getting discussed more than some of today's other revelations, which have more importance to the actual plot (what Aunt Petunia couldn't bring herself to say to Harry in the last book, for instance). But I can't say I'm suprised. Or upset.

Anyhoo, discuss.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong

Last edited by Robo : 2007-10-20 at 12:54.
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turbulentfurball
Right Honourable Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2007-10-20, 04:34

What's that I smell? Oh, it's the smell of some burning books. The ultra-conservative christian groups are going to just love this. I obviously don't condone such actions.

I can't say that I'd thought about the possibility of him being gay; even if I had, I wouldn't have expected Rowling to state the fact publicly mainly since it's generally a children's book series. If she had mentioned it in the books, I would have understood. It's an issue that shouldn't be hidden away so kids can learn about it and understand that it's not 'a bad thing'. I'm not sure what her reasons were for revealing it now though.
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2007-10-20, 05:15

Quote:
The ultra-conservative christian groups are going to just love this.
They already hated the books anyway.

I think it's great. A gay man who's a perfect role model and *not* a pedophile or nympho? What more could you ask for?
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RowdyScot
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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2007-10-20, 10:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
They already hated the books anyway.

I think it's great. A gay man who's a perfect role model and *not* a pedophile or nympho? What more could you ask for?
But...but...he hugs Harry! He *must* be a pedophile! They're recruiting!

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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2007-10-20, 15:40

Hahaha. As soon as I finished the book, my friends and I discussing Dumbledore/Grindelwald slash. I know other e-friend were writing that slash. Hearing it confirmed is just the icing on the cake.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2007-10-20, 20:21

I think it is perfectly pointless. It adds nothing to his character, imo. It also doesn't really take anything away. As far as I am concerned it is irrelevant, something like Luke Skywalker's name originally being Starkiller.
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World Leader Pretend
Ruling teh World
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston, MA
 
2007-10-20, 21:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbulentfurball View Post
What's that I smell? Oh, it's the smell of some burning books. The ultra-conservative christian groups are going to just love this. I obviously don't condone such actions.
Ultra-anythings are going to be crazy. Just make sure not to throw all Christians into the same boat with these idiots. Many Christians support gay marriage (or at least in my corner of the world).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
As far as I am concerned it is irrelevant, something like Luke Skywalker's name originally being Starkiller.
That name is 100% bad-ass.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2007-10-20, 23:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
I think it is perfectly pointless. It adds nothing to his character, imo. It also doesn't really take anything away. As far as I am concerned it is irrelevant, something like Luke Skywalker's name originally being Starkiller.
I'm confused. Now there has to be a point to characters being gay? Should all characters be straight by default, and then only be made gay if it "adds to their character"?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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zsummers
Avast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York?
 
2007-10-21, 00:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
I'm confused. Now there has to be a point to characters being gay? Should all characters be straight by default, and then only be made gay if it "adds to their character"?
Why, of course. Everyone knows being gay is like being the salt of the earth--only to be added to a dish where it enhances the flavor. (I'm with you, Robo).

"How could you falter / when you're the Rock of Gibralter? / I had to get off the boat so I could walk on water. / This ain't no tall order. / This is nothing to me. / Difficult takes a day. / Impossible takes a week."
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2007-10-21, 05:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
I'm confused. Now there has to be a point to characters being gay? Should all characters be straight by default, and then only be made gay if it "adds to their character"?
How about, it is irrelevant. It adds nothing, and removes nothing. It doesn't change anything, it doesn't enlighten any aspect of Dumbledore's character that was not already expressed. It is pointless.
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torifile
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2007-10-21, 08:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
How about, it is irrelevant. It adds nothing, and removes nothing. It doesn't change anything, it doesn't enlighten any aspect of Dumbledore's character that was not already expressed. It is pointless.
I disagree. If Dumbledore was out, how was he perceived by others in the wizarding world? Was some of the animosity he experienced from those in the Ministry not because of his "politics" but because of his orientation? It always seemed odd to me that *anyone* would dislike Albus because he was too trusting or a natural leader but because he was gay? It makes some sense.

Also, is the wizarding world more or less accepting of homosexuality than the human world? Re-reading the books with this in mind would be interesting.
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curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2007-10-21, 13:06

Magic Wands... </nudgenudge> </winkwink>
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torifile
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2007-10-21, 13:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Magic Wands... </nudgenudge> </winkwink>
Phallic objects + gay characters = endless innuendo.
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2007-10-21, 13:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I disagree. If Dumbledore was out, how was he perceived by others in the wizarding world? Was some of the animosity he experienced from those in the Ministry not because of his "politics" but because of his orientation? It always seemed odd to me that *anyone* would dislike Albus because he was too trusting or a natural leader but because he was gay? It makes some sense.

Also, is the wizarding world more or less accepting of homosexuality than the human world? Re-reading the books with this in mind would be interesting.
I think I just got dumber reading your post.
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torifile
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2007-10-21, 13:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
I think I just got dumber reading your post.
Not possible.
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PKIDelirium
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2007-10-21, 15:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Re-reading the books with this in mind would be interesting.
I'm in the middle of reading the entire series right now. I read the courtroom scene near the beginning of Order of the Phoenix last night, with this in mind, and it DID seem a little different.
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Schnauzer
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
 
2007-10-21, 19:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
How about, it is irrelevant. It adds nothing, and removes nothing. It doesn't change anything, it doesn't enlighten any aspect of Dumbledore's character that was not already expressed. It is pointless.

Agreed.
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Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2007-10-21, 19:35

*Apparently* this came about due to a detail to be inserted into a movie script coming up... a reference to a past love of Dumbledore's, as a throw away line. She nixed it, and said why.

I don't see that it adds or detracts from the character or the interactions, which is nice to see.

OTOH, morons everywhere will still raise holy hell.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2007-10-21, 19:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I disagree. If Dumbledore was out, how was he perceived by others in the wizarding world? Was some of the animosity he experienced from those in the Ministry not because of his "politics" but because of his orientation? It always seemed odd to me that *anyone* would dislike Albus because he was too trusting or a natural leader but because he was gay? It makes some sense.

Also, is the wizarding world more or less accepting of homosexuality than the human world? Re-reading the books with this in mind would be interesting.
I think, the mere aspect of Dumbledore being an exceptionally unique and powerful wizard accounts for all those questions in and of itself. you don't need to color it rainbows to highlight that. When you have this singular figure who could single handedly overthrow the government if he wanted to, but he doesn't pursue such power, or politics, and he stands outside it all, that makes the politicians leery, that makes the system confused as to who he is.

What I'm getting at is that people are making it out like him being gay makes him unique, but he's already amongst the most unique characters in the entire series.
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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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2007-10-21, 21:10

I don't think making Dumbledore gay makes him any more unique or distinctive or interesting than he was before. I also don't see it as a useless throwaway piece of information that adds nothing to his character, either. Being gay isn't only true if it adds something to you in real life. Your sexual preference is just a component of who you are. The problem is too many fictional gay characters are portrayed as gay just to show "look at me I'm gay", and having Dumbledore and Grindelwald have had a relationship but not having the fact that Dumbledore is gay be the defining point of the character is a good thing.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
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