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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2014-09-05, 14:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
I think that car companies selling in North America have a "gentleman's agreement" not to offer wagons so that they each can charge more as they get people into bloated, heavy, boxy, ponderous *UVs.
To be fair, crossovers are killing minivans, and minivans killed wagons. My family went from a big ol' Ford Country Squire to a Mercedes-Benz 300TD to a Dodge Caravan between 1974 and 1987. I used to see nothing but Mercedes-Benz and Volvo station wagons before that.

On the other hand, US buyers are definitely starting to favor midsize/larger crossovers over compacts again.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2014-09-05, 16:14

About those Miata headlights. It's hard to so squinty well. Needs to work with the rest of the hood/bonnet. Ferrari 458 Italia works. Subaru BRZ not as good.

What might be interesting is to delete the headlights entirely. Pinifarina's concept car take on the next Alfa Spyder - the 2uettoottanta - looks great. Of course real cars need headlights, but this might be a cool opportunity to orient them as vertical LED strips where the hood meets the fender.

I hope Alfa borrows that DNA, rather than some of the fussy stuff they've done recently.

Rumor has it that Fiat may get the Miata twin rebody instead of Alfa - to sell in North America.

Last edited by Matsu : 2014-09-05 at 16:26.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2014-09-05, 17:16

Well, North America is getting Alfa now too. But I could see a retro-inspired "Fiata" roadster fitting in very well with Fiat's desired chic image and "premium compact" positioning. It's probably a little too inexpensive for where they want to take the Alfa Romeo marque.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-06, 04:18

At first I wasn’t sure about the back – the old MX-5s were always wide and low, whereas this one tapers dramatically (seen from above), has closely set lights as a consequence, and kind of arches up and down across the rear (seen from behind).

But the more I look at it the more I like it. It’s resolutely modern, and yet it does have a hint of that boat-like shape and exposed tyres that I like in a roadster:





The flanks are clean and flowing and don’t have much ornamentation. They’ve got an instinctive appeal even if they don’t show strong-minded design ideas. The J-shaped curve of the door line is a classic feature and still looks good here. Less prominent wheel arches (compared to the NC) are a good thing. And that long and low bonnet is more Corvette than MX-5 (this might be a key reason the car feels so different) but it looks just fine:





The weak point for me is the front. The gaping maw and squinty lights make it look overly angry and aggressive. I don’t see “sleepy” here, addabox. More like Beavis and Butt-head:





The interior has too much going on but I do like the painted panels on the door in the exterior colour (I always like this feature, but it’s usually only seen in cheap hatchbacks):





I reckon the lower weight and new 1.5-litre engine option, electric power steering, 6-speed Skyactiv transmission, etc., might get the fuel consumption into the tolerable range for me. Which makes things interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
All in all, I like it (having obviously not, you know, driven one). It's definitely a big change to an iconic design. But I think it was time. It feels new again, which I think I prefer to some sort of deliberate faux retro look in this case.
This is true. The NC was dated (and looks even more so now after having looked at the new one for a couple of days). I think the NC was the weakest design of the three earlier models anyway. And faux retro would have been a disaster (it usually is, in my opinion, and even more so in a car with real substance like the MX-5).

It’s definitely growing on me.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-06, 05:00

Looking closer, it looks like the American launch car had 17" wheels while the Barcelona model was on 16" wheels. Market differences again? (I also read somewhere that the American market wants more power and the European market wants more fuel economy, putting Mazda in a bit of a bind with the MX-5 engine choices.)

I guess I’m true to Mazda’s stereotyping, since I prefer small wheels and low unsprung weight, I don’t like very low-profile tyres (since they defeat the purpose of pneumatic tyres and are more for posing than performance), and I need good fuel economy. I think the original NA model had 14" wheels!

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2014-09-06, 08:59

The car is light enough for a FIAT/Abarth to carry the turbo 1.3L used in the Abarth version of the 500. The hopped up Fiat 500 actually weighs more than the claimed weight of the new Miata, but I have no idea whether the FIAT power train weighs more or less than Mazda's.

I grew up in and live in very Italian enclaves. A lot of the folk these days have a lot of disposable income, so we see a lot of Ferrari and Maserati representing the Italian automotive heritage of the area. The 500c is all over the place too. Another FIAT or Alfa would fit right in, and give Italianisti in the more pedestrian income brackets something to drive. But that alone isn't enough of a reason to buy one. The Italians could easily do worse, and probably for more money...

I think 16-17" wheels are about right for that car. It has roughly the same exterior dimensions and wheel base as the last air cooled Porsche 911's, the 993, which started life with 16" wheels.

I do think they ought to do the folding hardtop, however, even if it adds a bit of weight. I'm not sure it really weighs more than a soft-top. Probably, the motors needed to retract and extend either make more of a difference. A really slick (one handed) manual retractable hard-top would be just right. Theft, damage, wind noise, and year round motoring, IMHO, are enough of an incentive for some sort of uncomplicated hard-top option. The outgoing model's solution seems well-made and unfussy.

Notwithstanding my disdain for electronic creature controls. I like to control when the lights are on/off, blinkers, windows up/down. I don't mind these things being powered, but I don't really want a computer to think for me over such mundane tasks, especially when it gets things wrong. I do think some concessions to modern electronic safe-guards should be present though. A light, front engine, rear drive car, even moderately powered (is ok to say, appropriately powered?) could still use a little traction control to keep us safe from ourselves in the turns.

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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-06, 10:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I think 16-17" wheels are about right for that car.
I agree. Just saying I’d prefer 16" to 17", so I’m glad the smaller wheels are available, at least on the European car.

The specific 16" wheels shown also look pretty good to my eye, even though I normally dislike black wheels.

The power retractable hard-top model of the current MX-5 accounts for something like 80 % of UK sales, a dominance which surprises me despite the British climate. In the case of the MX-5, at least, it does weigh more than the soft top – a lot more, in fact (nearly 100 kg). It adds cost and complexity, too. And it takes up more space, which is at a premium already in this package.

I think the allure of the PRHT is that you get the best of both worlds, coupé and convertible. But in reality you don’t. Convertibles are heavier than coupés even if they have canvas roofs, and with the PRHT they weigh even more.

Then again, if the user reviews on Mazda.co.uk are anything to go by, even MX-5 buyers wish to be cosseted with every luxury and mod con rather than given a genuinely thrilling drive. Still, they’re happy with their cars, so who can say they’re wrong.

But at the end of the day, the original MX-5 was defined by what it had missing, not what it included. The whole point of it was lightness, simplicity, affordability, missing seats, missing roof, missing mod cons, missing horsepower, and fun, fun, fun.

One thing’s for sure: my next car will be bought purely from the heart. It’s the only kind of purchase I’m ever happy with. The guy in this video didn’t buy a 1973 Land Rover because it was comfortable. I’m not courageous enough to go that far (wish I was), but could you please kill me if I ever buy a VW Golf?

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2014-09-06, 15:32

From some guy's Facebook page:

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GSpotter
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: A small town near Wolfsburg, Germany
 
2014-09-07, 09:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I do think some concessions to modern electronic safe-guards should be present though. A light, front engine, rear drive car, even moderately powered (is ok to say, appropriately powered?) could still use a little traction control to keep us safe from ourselves in the turns.
I had two Miatas (a 1990 original version and a the 2nd version in a limited edition with wooden steering wheel and tan leather). I used them as all-year/all-weather cars which I wouldn't advise after my experiences (depending on where you live). I don't know about the handling (and electronic helpers) of the newer models, but at least the older ones had a bit of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. On dry roads they were great and lots of fun. But on wet roads, you had to be VERY careful. On a german Miata fan page, they even had a Miata cemetary with stories of crashes ...

My photos @ flickr
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2014-09-08, 10:52

A couple of things about the new Miata MX-5 that I don't really like. It's an "MX-5" and I think it's been so for a while, but a small part of me wishes more cars had actual names, like they used to. These days everything has an alpha-numeric designation. At least the more unique cars should have a name of their own within the corporate umbrella like a Mustang, a Camaro, Corvette... Smaller volume production from the likes of Ferrarri and Porsche are excluded since the brand associations are different. It's neither here nor there, tomorrow I'll like the idea of an MX-5 just as well.

Second thing. It has four bolt hubs. This is probably the sensible bolt pattern given the weight and power of the car, but I generally don't like the pattern. The whole square in a circle thing. When the car is sitting there, I half expect it to hobble around like a Flintstones cartoon car that predates the invention of the wheel. And I don't like even numbered spoke patterns, unless there are at least six. Eight might work, but sometimes it just looks like four pairs which amplifies the whole rolling on boxes impression. Five bolt hub please, or cover the bolt pattern with a cap.

On the power retractable folding hard top, I had no idea that it adds 200kg to the car. Rather heavy, I wonder if a manual retractable folding hard top could keep us within 50KG of the soft-top option, maybe made up in a composite material instead of steel? Of course this would make things more expensive, but it seems like for an MX-5 at least a couple of additional "special" models - like a GT, and a track car - along with factory approved component upgrade program would make for a nice model support program - considering that more than a few will be raced on club tracks.

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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-08, 13:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSpotter View Post
I had two Miatas (a 1990 original version and a the 2nd version in a limited edition with wooden steering wheel and tan leather).
Intersting. And you’ve now got a Volkswagen Eos, right? So you’re a big fan of convertibles.

Is the dangerous handling the only reason you don’t recommend a MX-5 as an all-weather car? Or did you have other problems in the winter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
It's an "MX-5" and I think it's been so for a while, but a small part of me wishes more cars had actual names, like they used to.
I agree. And Miata is an okay name – better than MX-5, at least. I don’t know why they don’t call it that in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Second thing. It has four bolt hubs. This is probably the sensible bolt pattern given the weight and power of the car, but I generally don't like the pattern. The whole square in a circle thing. When the car is sitting there, I half expect it to hobble around like a Flintstones cartoon car that predates the invention of the wheel. And I don't like even numbered spoke patterns, unless there are at least six. Eight might work, but sometimes it just looks like four pairs which amplifies the whole rolling on boxes impression. Five bolt hub please, or cover the bolt pattern with a cap.
You are a nerd! I don’t have a strong opinion either way, but I kind of like using the minimum necessary of anything, including bolts, so four is fine with me. (What about three?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
On the power retractable folding hard top, I had no idea that it adds 200kg to the car.
I don’t think it adds that much, but the specs suggest 90 kg (though specs in different places have different figures – a PDF from Mazda UK seems to suggest only 80 kg, though that’s still quite a lot). I’m sure they considered composites. They do mention the new soft-top MX-5 uses a lighter-weight fabric for the roof.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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GSpotter
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: A small town near Wolfsburg, Germany
 
2014-09-08, 14:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Intersting. And you’ve now got a Volkswagen Eos, right? So you’re a big fan of convertibles.
Yes.
My first convertible was a Volkswagen Golf I convertible, then we had a Chrysler Sebring (That was an interesting episode. The Sebring convertible was an extremely rare car in Germany - I think Chrysler sold less than 700 a year), so wherever we showed up, we often heard questions and remarks on that car. We bought it because it had a relatively big trunk for a convertible. On the downside: the car had a huge turning circle which made it not very convenient in a city like Stuttgart). We then switched to more practical cars, but later I bought my first MX-5 as a second car to get to work. After an accident (see below), I bought my 2nd MX-5. After another accident, I switched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Is the dangerous handling the only reason you don’t recommend a MX-5 as an all-weather car? Or did you have other problems in the winter?
No, the handling was the only problem. Even with very cold temperatures, I had no problem with the soft top. Due to the small room, it got warm rather quickly. I also drove it in snow and ice. If you drive slowly and carefully, everything was ok. Only in some situations, it got 'interesting':

I had my first accident in spring. In the morning we had the first rain after a dry period. What I didn't think of was the combination of water and pollen/dust on the street. I was late and I had some very slow driver before me. Finally I could pass him and was first at the next red light where I wanted to take a left turn. I got a bit too fast into the curve and the car slid sideways against the curb. I only felt some small rumbling, but when I tried to drive on, I felt that something was wrong. When I checked the car, I had two flat tires and it turned out that both axles were moved. The repair would have been more expensive than the car was worth ...

With my second MX-5 (which had at least ABS), I was on the way home. The street was wet and there was a light drizzle. I had to drive through a patch of wood to reach our town. Suddenly a deer crossed the street before me. I braked, but as it was a slight curve and the street was wet, the car started spinning. After a few revolutions, I just missed the deer and went into the ditch. Luckily, the damaga was minor: Some scratches and some adjustments, but I reached the decision that the MX-5 and me were not made for each other (at least not as an everyday car). Although on dry days, I sometimes miss it. Especially the first Miata was a fun experience. I remember driving to a stop light and looking up to the Porsche next to me

My photos @ flickr
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-09, 03:40

Interesting story, GSpotter. Thanks for telling it.

I wonder if those two accidents were caused specifically by the MX-5’s handling/rear-wheel drive or whether there was some bad luck involved (and excess speed for the traction available) that might have happened with any car?

In the past I drove some cars with strange handling. My first Renault 5 was huge fun to drive (and a great small car in many ways – that’s why I bought another one later), but it changed from docile understeer to vicious oversteer if you let your foot off the accelerator while going around a corner. You had to accelerate strongly all the way through a turn to keep the rear tyres pushed against the road – but if you went too hard you understeered straight off the road. The window of safety was stupidly narrow. It would probably be illegal to sell a car like that today. I spun that car several times, thankfully never into something hard. (I was still a teenager and drove way too fast.)

Nowadays I rarely drive quickly and often drive slowly. But I like driving and think I would like a small and light convertible with rear-wheel drive.

Fun cartoon.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2014-09-09, 05:47

Light rain, especially if it's the first rain of the season can definitely lead to solo accidents. I've never driven into a ditch, but I came close to hitting the curb on a loop shaped on-ramp. The rain did a pretty good job of mixing all the oils laid down during the dry months without washing it away. I was in an early 90s BMW, so no traction or stability control to bail me out. The rear of my car slid out hard, but luckily I was able to recover. I fault my own driving for sliding in the first place when I should have been taking the curve much more slowly.

Old, balding street tires can be a major culprit too. Anyone can induce tire slip on dry asphalt with worn treads and perhaps over-inflation.

These days I mostly find myself playing the fuel efficiency game. On the freeway that means getting up to 8th gear in my current car and finding the lowest RPM before it shifts back to 7th. It's right around 1500 RPM in 'eco' mode, about 58mph on a flat road. The slow lanes are usually full of cars traveling at that speed, so I don't feel like I'm disrupting the flow. I can get the 328d around 60-65mpg doing that, around 42-45mpg in a 328i.

Last edited by Eugene : 2014-09-09 at 05:59.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-09, 06:32

65 miles per US gallon is 78 miles per imperial gallon or 3.6 litres per 100 km. That’s nuts, even at a steady-state cruise at moderate speed. I guess all the little things BMW does to improve fuel economy add up.

When a car that’s actually fast and good at going around corners, not to mention quiet and comfortable, can manage that kind of economy it makes you wonder if there’s much room for sports cars and economical family saloons alike … but then you remember how much a BMW costs.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2014-09-09, 07:12

Once you get a car up to speed and under really favorable conditions you can get good efficiency though I've found the mpg numbers that come from cars computers are often optimistic when you compare them with hand calculations.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2014-09-09, 07:49

I find that petrol fuel economy numbers are often very optimistic, but that diesel numbers are quite achievable, and if you're careful it's often possible to exceed them. Lotsa low rpm torque to pull tall gears will do that.

About my nerdy obsession with bolt patterns, I suppose not all four bolt patterns are bad. If they're narrow on a moderate sized rim/tire package they look fine. Wider patterns on smaller rims tend to give the wheel "corners" and this just looks weird. Some automakers even played this up with geometric patterns to the rim design. Looks terrible.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2014-09-09, 19:45

The Mercedes-AMG GT is pretty gorgeous.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/09/2...otos-official/
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-10, 04:53

Yeah, I think Mercedes-Benz (or Mercedes-AMG!) is getting its mojo back. The cars look special, even if they’re not quite the ageless Mercedes-Benz cars of yore.



I much prefer it in red and sitting on a dilapidated concrete track, as seen in other photos at your link, but the rear is pretty stunning from this angle.

Just a shame about the interior. Again. I guess one-percenters don’t like spare, austere interiors, but I do think Mercedes-Benz should be telling them what a good interior is, not kowtowing to their bad taste.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2014-09-10, 12:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by addison View Post
Once you get a car up to speed and under really favorable conditions you can get good efficiency though I've found the mpg numbers that come from cars computers are often optimistic when you compare them with hand calculations.
My numbers were just under ideal conditions in extended freeway driving. Typically I average out to just a hair above the EPA combined cycle, maybe 41-42mpg.

Dorian, the first thing that came to mind was BMW's feature where the transmission completely decouples from the wheels while coasting. I often find myself catching up to slower traffic very easily despite not applying any gas. I start coasting toward exits/stops way earlier in this car than any other.

Last edited by Eugene : 2014-09-10 at 14:06.
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GSpotter
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: A small town near Wolfsburg, Germany
 
2014-09-10, 13:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Interesting story, GSpotter. Thanks for telling it.

I wonder if those two accidents were caused specifically by the MX-5’s handling/rear-wheel drive or whether there was some bad luck involved (and excess speed for the traction available) that might have happened with any car?
The rear wheel drive and the missing ESP for sure hat a big part on the results. The tricky thing about the Miata is the fun handling, you can easily just get used to "zoom" around the corners with its Go-Cart like steering. So you really have to actively hold yourself back on wet weather. If I had the money to buy a Miata as a "fun" car just for good weather, I would still be tempted, although I probably would run into a marital quarrel about this.

Another aspect on the Miata is its virtue "light weight" also means "less stuff around you which can absorb an impact". Compared to bigger cars, it (at least the two models I owned) feels almost flimsy.

My photos @ flickr
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-11, 03:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSpotter View Post
Another aspect on the Miata is its virtue "light weight" also means "less stuff around you which can absorb an impact". Compared to bigger cars, it (at least the two models I owned) feels almost flimsy.
Yeah, especially compared to the solid feeling of a modern Volkswagen. But I’m used to flimsy cars. They don’t get much flimsier than small French cars from the eighties.

Being realistic, I’m not going to get an MX-5 this year. But I have to say I’m taken with the idea. I think I’m old enough now to stand a chance of not killing myself in one.

I’m curious to see the full details of the engines in the new MX-5. Even the 1.5-litre is supposed to be naturally aspirated, which I find slightly surprising (and fun). Downsized turbocharged petrols will be the talk of the town for the next decade, but I like the simplicity and driving characteristics of a naturally aspirated engine – in a sports car, that is.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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GSpotter
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: A small town near Wolfsburg, Germany
 
2014-09-11, 14:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
But I’m used to flimsy cars. They don’t get much flimsier than small French cars from the eighties.
My brother once had a Renault 4 panel van (which he had equiped as a mini camper van). I could drive it a few times. The Autobahn was 'interesting' with this car: On each descent, you had to gain momentum for the next hill - with 34hp you weren't exactly the speed king...

My photos @ flickr
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -- Benjamin Franklin
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addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2014-09-11, 16:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Yeah, especially compared to the solid feeling of a modern Volkswagen. But I’m used to flimsy cars. They don’t get much flimsier than small French cars from the eighties.
Speaking as a person that just went from a VW to a Mazda: at first I was like "hmmm, this thing is assembled on the cheap." But then I noticed that those plastic panels held in place by plastic pressure fittings pop off easily enough, but pop right back on. And don't rattle. And help cut the weight. Which improves gas mileage.

My VW had things put together with super awesome machined fittings, requiring special devices, which made repairs expensive and difficult. And they rattled like a motherfucker. My impression is that VW (and the Germans in general) love to engineer the shit out of their stuff but there seem to be some issues getting the parts sourced and putting it together and general serviceability. I'll gladly take the "cheap" feel of the Mazda that I can work on with a cheap set of wrenches and a few screwdrivers over "carved from a solid block of Teutonic" that requires dissembling the car to change a bulb and when the latch on the glove box breaks (as it definitely will) it doesn't require replacing half the dash to the tune of $700.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2014-09-12, 08:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
I'll gladly take the "cheap" feel of the Mazda that I can work on with a cheap set of wrenches and a few screwdrivers over "carved from a solid block of Teutonic" that requires dissembling the car to change a bulb and when the latch on the glove box breaks (as it definitely will) it doesn't require replacing half the dash to the tune of $700.
Oh yes. There were lots of problems like that in the A4 cars. Glove box and arm rest were guaranteed to break. Same with window regulators in the earlier cars. My sister in law had one of the early ones which had this overly complicated cup holder that popped out of the dash under the vents. It broke. Replacement cost was $137 just for the part. Luckily it was easy to install. The problem VW has is people remember these things when it comes time to buy again. Plus the dealer will tell you to get lost if you complain about it despite the fact that they know about the problems. If they were smart they would just fix things like this despite warranty status to keep the customer happy. It's not like this is some poor company that can't afford it.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-12, 09:32

Volkswagen went through a period of a few years where its design quality certainly slipped. The design process was too complicated and removed from production. This has changed and new cars should be considerably better.

I think Volkswagen also took a while to get accustomed to the more demanding American market. Stereotyping wildly, Americans seem personally affronted if something they buy breaks. They want a free replacement, a discount on the next one, and a personal apology – and even then they’ll remember the insult for years.

The European market, with its fuck-the-customer culture, is more tolerant of these things. I don’t see much evidence of Europeans (e.g. the British or French – maybe it’s different in somewhere like Poland, Germany, or the Czech Republic where there is a broader appreciation of engineering) even considering reliability when they shop for a new car. Cars are considered reliable enough, or at any rate, not greatly different in their likelihood of going kaput.

I think also the American cars of a few decades ago were so horrid that those manufacturers had their quality crisis a lot earlier, and in the process of fixing themselves they actually outplayed the Europeans (and maybe even the Japanese?) at their own game – leading to generally higher expectations of quality in North America.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-09-13, 06:31

Going back to the MX-5, here’s a video walk-through of the new design by Mazda North America’s director of design Derek Jenkins. He didn’t say anything especially remarkable, but he did help me appreciate the merits of the new car.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2014-09-13, 11:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Volkswagen went through a period of a few years where its design quality certainly slipped. The design process was too complicated and removed from production. This has changed and new cars should be considerably better.

I think Volkswagen also took a while to get accustomed to the more demanding American market. Stereotyping wildly, Americans seem personally affronted if something they buy breaks. They want a free replacement, a discount on the next one, and a personal apology – and even then they’ll remember the insult for years.

The European market, with its fuck-the-customer culture, is more tolerant of these things. I don’t see much evidence of Europeans (e.g. the British or French – maybe it’s different in somewhere like Poland, Germany, or the Czech Republic where there is a broader appreciation of engineering) even considering reliability when they shop for a new car. Cars are considered reliable enough, or at any rate, not greatly different in their likelihood of going kaput.

I think also the American cars of a few decades ago were so horrid that those manufacturers had their quality crisis a lot earlier, and in the process of fixing themselves they actually outplayed the Europeans (and maybe even the Japanese?) at their own game – leading to generally higher expectations of quality in North America.
I agree to an extent. The newer VW cars are much simpler than the ones from a few years ago so they should be more reliable. The mistake they made was straying from their roots and going up market to compete against near luxury brands including Audi. But what Piech wants Piech gets! So we got W12 Phaetons, W8 Passats with 4 Motion, engines with finicky oil requirements and rigorous maintenance schedules, etc. Complicated, expensive cars that were often problem prone over time that could cost a small fortune. And they expected people to buy a $75K car from their crappy dealer network that is used to selling bargain basement Golfs and Jettas. And the little things like broken cup holders, glovebox, arm rest, window regulators, wiper motors pissed people off even if the repairs weren't obscenely expensive. They usually weren't happening in other comparable brands and they knew that. If a car is known for often hitting you for $300 to $400 out of the blue for stupid shit that shouldn't break you tend to not buy another one.

VW has been in America for probably 50 years. They should've figured it out by now. The Koreans came here in the late '80s with beyond horrible cars. Today they can't make them fast enough. Unfortunately VWoA is often a dumping ground for executives who are on the outs with Wolfsburg. It's seen as a punishment. For a company that is almost the largest automaker in the world they should do much better here.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2015-01-12, 09:50

I have promised to never get a Golf, since although I think the Mark VII is far and away the best – and best-looking on the outside – car in its class, I also think it’s overloaded with technology (like so many cars) and common to the point of boring. But it’s interesting to see the Mark VII has won European Car of the Year, Car of the Year Japan (the first European winner of that award), and now North American Car of the Year. Not to mention a bunch of other awards.

This recognition is probably deserved, even though those awards actually apply to quite different versions of the car. To my mind, the most interesting innovations in the European model are the weight reduction to ~1200 kg (2650 lb) (incredibly, I see barely a mention of weight reduction on the USA Volkswagen Golf website or PDF brochure – just a “new lighter chassis” note in the latter), the very clever 1.2- and 1.4-litre petrol engines (not even available in the USA, where no-one would want them anyway), and the active safety features like automatic braking and adaptive cruise control (automatically maintaining distance to the car in front) – unusual at this price.

On this side of the Atlantic the weight loss is a key advertising point. (Aren’t these ads similar to the old Get a Mac ads?)

The North American Truck of the Year award went to the Ford F-150, which is also all about weight reduction (and sold as such). I had a good look at that truck (online, that is). Cool technology. It’s wonderful to see this new focus on proper engineering after so many years of depressing weight increases.

And speaking of weight loss, when are we going to get the full specs of the Mazda MX-5? The new design is slowly but surely convincing me. If the fuel economy is greatly improved over the old MX-5, I might eventually end up with one.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2015-01-12, 10:00

While I’m looking at this thread again …
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
I much prefer it in red and sitting on a dilapidated concrete track, as seen in other photos at your link, but the rear is pretty stunning from this angle.
Robert Cumberford agrees with me! “In fact, the rear aspect of the car is essentially flawless.”

Of course he disagrees with me about the interior. He seems to not mind needless complexity and arbitrary design in interiors – not just for this car, but in many of his articles he praises interiors I find flat-out abominable. It’s weird, coming from a man who has at times championed simplicity in design.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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