User Name
Password

Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Car Talk
Page 35 of 68 First Previous 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39  Next Last Thread Tools
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2012-01-08, 14:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Pictures of the 2013 Cadillac ATS has leaked. All I have to say about it is......... MEH!!! It's way too bland.....

Though I dig the interior.
I flat-out don't like the exterior, but yeah, the interior's great.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-08, 17:32

It is surprisingly bland. It's lost a lot of Cadillac's hard-edged look. With a different grille, it could be a Camry. It's especially puzzling because GM has Buick for the conservative-styling set; Cadillac has less reason to water down their styling than anyone else in the business.

At least the interior looks okay. Still, GM, I am disappoint. I also think they're setting themselves up for problems with the ATS name, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm very interested to see what the new MKZ looks like, and whether Lincoln can pull off a, well, Cadillac-sized transformation. The new Fusion looks interesting:


and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-08, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I also think they're setting themselves up for problems with the ATS name, but that's neither here nor there.[/img]
How so? I am entirely ignorant on this point.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-10, 00:48

There MKZ attracted a surprising amount of pre-unveil buzz (you know, for a Lincoln), and I'm not going to lie, it is pretty svelte, albeit not particularly unconventional. Ford does seem to be serious about the whole "reinventing Lincoln" thing.



It's technically a concept, but it's a thinly disguised look at the MY2013 production vehicle; expect the glass roof and the tiny side mirrors to go and the wheels to be replaced with smaller ones, but that's about it. Styling-wise, I like how the narrow LED headlights flow out of the "butterfly" grille, now adorned with horizontal bars. As on the new MKS, a hood strake draws the eye to the classily downsized Lincoln badge, and the rear lights stretch the width of the vehicle, a new design trademark borrowed from the marque's crossover vehicles (or, less generously, from Dodge).

Like the 2013 MKS and MKT, the new MKZ will feature Lincoln Drive Control and a Continuously Controlled Damping adjustable suspension as differentiators from the Ford product on which it is based (in this case, the new Fusion).

The current MKZ is available in a hybrid version at, impressively, no additional cost. If this continues with the new model I could see the re-energized Lincoln marque attracting attention from those wanting guilt-free luxury; the new Fusion Hybrid gets exceptional mileage, and other luxury hybrid sedans (such as the Lexus HS) have proven quite disappointing in that regard.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-10, 02:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciej View Post
How so? I am entirely ignorant on this point.
Two reasons:

First, a major area of growth for luxury marques is sub-3 Series/C-Class models. BMW has the 1 Series, Audi has the A1 and A3 and potentially a new A2, Mercedes-Benz is said to be interested in bringing the A- or B-Class to the US, Lexus has the CT, Acura has the new ILX, and on and on and on. In Cadillac's sedan nomenclature system, the first letter denotes the vehicle's class, in alphabetical order — the ATS slots below the CTS which slotted below the STS and will now slot below the XTS, &c. By using the first letter of the alphabet for their 3 Series fighter, Cadillac is making it awkward should they ever decide to release a sub-ATS model, such as a vehicle based on their own Urban Luxury Concept.

Second, and more importantly, the ATS is part of Cadillac's plan to go upmarket to match BMW and Mercedes-Benz, which is essential if they're going to justify their continued existence alongside Buick in GM's brand portfolio. The idea is that selling a new, 3 Series-sized/priced ATS will allow the current CTS (currently sized like 5 Series but priced like a 3 Series) to grow in price to match the 5 Series (E-Class, &c.). But I think it would be much easier for Cadillac to introduce a downsized "CTS" at the same price as the current CTS than to introduce a next-generation "CTS" that increased significantly in price overnight. If I were GM, I would have launched the ATS as the new CTS, and launched a refreshed, somewhat upmarket model of the current CTS alongside it as, say, an ETS, halfway between the price of the current CTS and Cadillac's target (the 5 Series). Then, when it was time for that model to be redesigned, I'd increase the price the rest of the way, to match the 5 Series head-to-head.

In short, I think that push come to shove, the names should be tied to the price class, not size class, of the cars, as that's more easily comparable. People are used to cross-shopping the CTS with the 3 Series now, and I think it will be harder to convince them that, no, the CTS is really Cadillac's 5 Series competitor, which is why it's okay that the price is going up $8,000, whatever, between model years. That's going to be a tougher sell than a smaller "new CTS," I think.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-10, 13:07

Got it! Thanks.
  quote
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2012-01-10, 15:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
the new Fusion Hybrid gets exceptional mileage, and other luxury hybrid sedans (such as the Lexus HS) have proven quite disappointing in that regard.
All else being equal, luxury cars will pretty much always get worse mileage than non-luxury models, because more features usually means more weight.
  quote
Escher
Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2012-01-11, 01:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
All else being equal, luxury cars will pretty much always get worse mileage than non-luxury models, because more features usually means more weight.
Well said, Dave! I'm saving my money for a $25,000 Subaru BRZ...

Who the fuck cares about BMW (for arrogant wannabes), Mercedes (rich old geezers), and Cadillac (old American geezers)?!?


I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-11, 17:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
All else being equal, luxury cars will pretty much always get worse mileage than non-luxury models, because more features usually means more weight.
2012 BMW 528i FTW. 23 MPG/34 MPG which is right up there with mainstream midsize sedans despite weighing two tons.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-11, 18:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
All else being equal, luxury cars will pretty much always get worse mileage than non-luxury models, because more features usually means more weight.
I know, but the Lexus HS was still a disappointment all around (as its dismal sales have indicated). The CT has faired somewhat better. I think the Lexus HS — the much bally-hooed first ever dedicated luxury hyrbid — might have had a better shot if it actually looked different, like, well a Lexus Prius. The public seems to associate hatchbacks with hybrids, and Lexus was already selling two sedans in the HS's price range but, before the CT, had no hatchbacks or wagons in their line-up at all. (If the point of a "dedicated" hybrid is to let everyone know you're driving a hybrid, a Lexus sedan that looks like all other Lexus sedans misses the point.)

Anyways. The MPG of the current Lincoln MKZ hybrid matches that of the Ford Fusion hybrid. If the new MKZ pulls that off with the new Fusion hybrid's crazy-high MPGs, it will be a very impressive number indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escher View Post
Well said, Dave! I'm saving my money for a $25,000 Subaru BRZ...

Who the fuck cares about BMW (for arrogant wannabes), Mercedes (rich old geezers), and Cadillac (old American geezers)?!?

Yeah! Them BMW drivers are almost as bad as those Apple snobs, who buy ridiculously expensive computers just to look cool.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2012-01-12, 03:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
2012 BMW 528i FTW. 23 MPG/34 MPG which is right up there with mainstream midsize sedans despite weighing two tons.
I was curious about the various curb weights of luxury sedans vs the new Fusion.

Fusion >3400 pounds
BMW 5-series >3800 pounds
MB E-Class >3800 pounds
Audi A6 >4000 pounds

All these mid-size sedans are as big or heavier than large-size sedans from 20 years go.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-12, 12:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
All these mid-size sedans are as big or heavier than large-size sedans from 20 years go.
Welcome to technology and stricter crash standards.
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2012-01-12, 12:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Welcome to technology and stricter crash standards.
These cars are physically larger in every dimension...and that has nothing to do with car safety standards or technology. If technology could do anything, it's make cars lighter with stronger alloys, carbon fiber, thermoplastics, etc.

My old E34 535i:
Length, 185.8in
Width, 68.9in
Height, 55.6in

Current F11 528i:
Length, 192.9in
Width, 73.2in
Height, 57.6in
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-12, 16:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
These cars are physically larger in every dimension...and that has nothing to do with car safety standards or technology. If technology could do anything, it's make cars lighter with stronger alloys, carbon fiber, thermoplastics, etc.

My old E34 535i:
Length, 185.8in
Width, 68.9in
Height, 55.6in

Current F11 528i:
Length, 192.9in
Width, 73.2in
Height, 57.6in
Wasn't referencing the size differences, but the increase in weight. Cars 20 years ago didn't have crash standards that we do today. They also didn't have the technology( all the computer chips it has now, navigation, etc) in them as cars today have.

giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2012-01-12 at 17:05.
  quote
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2012-01-12, 16:58

Well, start thinking about all the changes that have happened with cars in the last few decades.

ABS (weight)
crumple zones (weight and size)
heated everything (weight)
electronic windows/seats (weight)
airbags (weight)
traction control (weight)

I'm sure there are plenty more. These items not only add weight, but they also displace whatever used to be in that space, so cars have had to enlarge (in part) to accommodate new technology as well.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2012-01-13, 02:39

Cars had all or most of these things >20 years ago, especially the luxury cars like the E34 I mentioned above.

Quote:
On-board computer (standard on 535i and above), trunk-mounted 6-disc CD changer, cruise control, fully automatic dual-zone air conditioning, heated seats, seat and mirror memory, lordosis support in seats, heated headlight washers, Servotronic power steering, sport suspension upgrade, passenger airbag, Automatic Stability Control (ASC, also ASC+T with traction control), keyless entry system with deadbolt, curtains in rear window and rear side windows, leather interior, arm rests on front seats, ski bag integrated into rear seat bank, light package with focused reading lights front and rear, refrigerator built into rear seat back, wood panels on center console, glove compartment and door panels, fold-down rear seat bank, Park Distance Control (PDC), Telephone between the seats, Nubuk leather head liner, Complete leather including dashboard, rear shelf.
The added weight really is from the dimensions. Especially here in the US, people are bigger than ever...it's easier to fit comfortably in bigger cars.

Last edited by Eugene : 2012-01-13 at 02:58.
  quote
JohnnyTheA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2012-01-13, 23:48

My wife is thinking about getting this model (not this specific one though):

slk280

Anyone familiar with the Mercedes SLK280s sold in 2007? We normally drive Hondas and Toyos. This is a step up, but it has really low miles and is ends up being priced as much as a new loaded Accord. Maybe cheaper...

JTA
  quote
Souflay123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Send a message via AIM to Souflay123  
2012-01-21, 00:10

I would be scared of a pre owned german car. They tend to break... in there normal state, but that being said I had a client who had a 07 SLK and loved it, no issues what so ever. So to each there own

I would say take a look at a Lexus SC430, they are good reliable asian built cars, and instead of a problematic ragtop, it is a very nice hardtop. They also have a very good Navi system, and incredible wood.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-21, 00:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Souflay123 View Post
I would be scared of a pre owned german car. They tend to break...
German cars ≠ VWs/Audis.

(and this is coming from a VW/Audi person)
  quote
Xaqtly
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-21, 04:01

I may be getting a new car if the financing goes though... should know tomorrow some time. I'll post deets if everything goes through.
  quote
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Send a message via AIM to torifile  
2012-01-21, 08:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
German cars ≠ VWs/Audis.

(and this is coming from a VW/Audi person)
Exactly.

And I've got to say, I had a used VW Golf for over 5 years and I didn't have a single problem with it. Anecdotal, but still...

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2012-01-22, 13:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Exactly.

And I've got to say, I had a used VW Golf for over 5 years and I didn't have a single problem with it. Anecdotal, but still...
My anecdotal experience with a 99 VR6 Jetta hasn't been the greatest.
That said, I'm still considering a used, low mileage 2009 Audi A3. But everyone is telling me I'm nuts and to stay away from used Audi's and VW's.
That the only time to buy a German brand is if you're leasing a new vehicle with warranty. And when the contract is up, give the car back.
  quote
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Send a message via AIM to torifile  
2012-01-22, 14:25

The VR6s and that generation of vehicle in general for VW were awful. I think that things are way better now.
  quote
Xaqtly
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-28, 16:21

Well I bought a new car. Well, a used car, not new, but new to me. I like the STi but for some reason it's just not as in sync with my particular sensibilities as I hoped it would be. It's quick, it handles well, it has nice cargo space, but it just doesn't make me smile every time I drive it the way it should. So I'll be selling the STi, and over the last week I bought this. Quagmire will probably like it, Dorian probably won't.



It's a 2011 Cadillac CTS-V wagon, with a 6-speed manual transmission. It has the supercharged 6.2 liter V8 engine from the Corvette ZR1, detuned to a mere 556 HP and 551 lb-ft of torque. The transmission is also shared with the Vette, it's the same Tremec TR6060 model. I dunno, something about fast wagons really pushes my buttons. They're extremely rare and hard to find for a couple reasons. Finding used ones is hard because the first year for them was 2011 so there just aren't very many used ones available. The manual transmission is rare too, most of them are ordered with automatics. And then all CTS-V wagons are built to order because Americans don't like wagons, so there aren't very many of them to begin with.

This was one of only about 7 I could find in the entire US, used. It's in Florida so I have to have it shipped out to Vegas. I'm pretty excited though, it should be here in a couple of weeks. Here's a pretty good segment from Inside Line on the CTS-V wagon.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-01-28, 16:58

We need a jaw-dropping smiley.

I love the CTS. And I salute your unAmerican preference for wagons. Enjoy!
  quote
Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2012-01-28, 17:14

Did he really say seventy-five grand? For an estate with a big engine? You're a serious car nut, Xaqtly!

Although I personally don't like these overpowered cars, I have no problem with true enthusiasts — like you — driving them. I just hope you survive these cars to tell the tales of their excesses to your grandkids…
  quote
Xaqtly
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-28, 17:31

Yeah, it's not cheap so I got a used one. Still expensive, but no new car tax and there's some depreciation so I'm not paying anywhere near that much for it.

And yeah, it's basically a Corvette with a wagon body. But the suspension was tuned on the Nurburgring and it has huge 6-piston Brembo brakes, so it's not the old floaty station wagon of yore. There is at least a slim chance that it won't kill me.
  quote
Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2012-01-28, 18:37

I have never understood the American bias against wagons that has developed over the past 15-20 years - they used to be very common. Personally, I find that they are a stylish and practical design, good for both people and cargo, while avoiding the mediocre handling, excess weight, and awkward height of many SUVs.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-28, 18:41

Wow, that's a hot wagon Xaqtly. I'm impressed and jealous. We'll be looking forward to the pictures.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-01-29, 12:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
Well I bought a new car. Well, a used car, not new, but new to me. I like the STi but for some reason it's just not as in sync with my particular sensibilities as I hoped it would be. It's quick, it handles well, it has nice cargo space, but it just doesn't make me smile every time I drive it the way it should. So I'll be selling the STi, and over the last week I bought this. Quagmire will probably like it, Dorian probably won't.

It's a 2011 Cadillac CTS-V wagon, with a 6-speed manual transmission. It has the supercharged 6.2 liter V8 engine from the Corvette ZR1, detuned to a mere 556 HP and 551 lb-ft of torque. The transmission is also shared with the Vette, it's the same Tremec TR6060 model. I dunno, something about fast wagons really pushes my buttons. They're extremely rare and hard to find for a couple reasons. Finding used ones is hard because the first year for them was 2011 so there just aren't very many used ones available. The manual transmission is rare too, most of them are ordered with automatics. And then all CTS-V wagons are built to order because Americans don't like wagons, so there aren't very many of them to begin with.

This was one of only about 7 I could find in the entire US, used. It's in Florida so I have to have it shipped out to Vegas. I'm pretty excited though, it should be here in a couple of weeks. Here's a pretty good segment from Inside Line on the CTS-V wagon.



Very Nice......
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 35 of 68 First Previous 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39  Next Last

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3G talk time BlueApple Apple Products 4 2009-04-14 15:23
Let's Talk Stimulus ezkcdude AppleOutsider 180 2009-02-16 15:54
Let's talk... hot sauces Wrao AppleOutsider 19 2006-12-03 10:53
OS 7.5.3 not able to talk to OS X.3.7 boris Genius Bar 4 2005-01-27 14:12


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2024, AppleNova