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Eugene
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2012-03-31, 05:48

Everyone I know with a 14-24mm has ended up returning it or bought it used. Most buyers just end up realizing they don't need the combination of a very fast wideangle zoom when a few primes take up less space in a camera bag!
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Dorian Gray
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2012-04-01, 08:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'd be interested in seeing its sales numbers.
The 14-24 mm f/2.8 has sold very well (see "Qty" column), especially for such a pricey and limited-use lens. Its aspherical second element, shockingly large when revealed in 2007, allows impressive image quality that can't be matched by conventional wide-angle zooms. In terms of distortion, field curvature, and even lateral chromatic aberration, this lens can't be compared to the other zooms on the market. The corners are just better than the rest in every way.

Whether you need those qualities – particularly considering the things you give up by choosing this lens – is another matter! I guess many photographers in the real world are annoyed by the huge size and weight, not to mention the exposed front element. And since the lens is so expensive, people may sell it quickly if they find themselves not using it.

A new 16-35 mm f/2.8 VR would be a very different lens: smaller, more flexible, and better-suited to event photography, but with more distortion and more field curvature (i.e. softer corners).
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Dorian Gray
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2012-04-01, 18:59

I suppose I should clarify that, although the 16-35 mm f/4 VR falls apart in the corners at 16 mm and f/4, it's remarkably sharp across most of the frame. I also thought this lens had excellent ergonomics and practical value: it's long, yes, but also light and fairly narrow compared to many wide-angle zooms.

The 16-35 mm f/4 VR is the only wide-angle zoom I'd kind of like to have in my bag. (The 14-24 mm f/2.8 is way too big and heavy for me.)

Any 16-35 mm f/2.8 VR will cost a fortune, as Matsu rightly points out. If I had such a fortune, I'd spend it elsewhere. Like a good tele-zoom, for picking out architectural details, compressing perspective, blurring the background to nothing, etc. I really should own a lens like that... I'm reading The Photographer's Eye by Michael Freeman, and that guy likes his telephotos!
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Matsu
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2012-04-01, 19:24

Man, I never even noticed the sales numbers in that chart before. Cool. I know some folks use the 14-24 for interiors, and just do the perspective corrections in photoshop. With new 36MP bodies, you don't really have to worry about that too much. I plan to get one eventually, but it's not likely in the budget this year.

I went down to Chinatown yesterday to take some pics. I got a bunch of pics at my widest setting, equivalent to about 28mm. Wides are a bit like a drug, you start wanting to cram more into the frame just because you can, sometimes to the detriment of composition, and it encourages you to drift a little to close to the action. At one point, I just taped my lens at the approximate 35mm equivalent setting so I didn't drift too close. Fun.

Anyway, I'm a pack mule. I carried three lenses, a flash and my D7000 most of the day. The 14-24 would have been a little much.

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Dorian Gray
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2012-04-02, 05:13

I guess the "Qty" column isn't precisely sales numbers, since it's based on observed serial numbers. But it's probably not far off. You can see the 14-24 mm f/2.8 sold much faster than the 17-35 mm f/2.8, which surprises me.

(Roland, the gent who keeps that database, is phenomenally knowledgeable. I once emailed him about an odd serial number I saw on a 55 mm f/2.8 Micro-Nikkor. He wrote back explaining that all signs pointed to a gap of 100,000 in the range of serial numbers for this lens, most likely caused by someone in the Nikon factory accidentally flipping one of the counter digits forward!)

By the way, does anyone know if the 16-35 mm f/4 VR is parfocal at all (or any) focus distances? Or the 80-200 mm f/2.8 AF-D, for that matter.

Roger Cicala says the 17-35 mm f/2.8, 24-70 mm f/2.8, and 70-200 mm f/2.8 VR (discontinued version, which I think Matsu owns) are the only parfocal zooms from Nikon. However, although he presents that list as definitive, it contradicts many other sources on the web.
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PB PM
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2012-04-02, 11:44

Due to the IF nature of the lenses listed, I doubt any of them are parfocal. Just from use I can tell you that the 24-70 and 70-200mm VR I are not.
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Matsu
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2012-04-03, 05:55

I never thought about it before, so I just put the lens on and tested it across my apartment. Manual focus, f/2.8, 200mm, then 70, then 200, then 70 again. VR on, aperture priority, no tripod. Just looking in the rear LCD, it would appear that the lens does keep focus. But this isn't a rigorous evaluation. Subject was pretty high contrast black and red box with white lettering. What you can see is that the lens is a tad softer at 200mm, but not offensive.

I'm dying to use this lens at 1.2X and 5:4 on a D800. Wait list is long

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PB PM
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2012-04-03, 13:58

Canon announced the 60Da, designed specifically for astrological photography. Basically it is a 60D with a modified IR filter, a tweaked sensor that is more energy efficient and produces less noise when making long (several hours) exposures. They also upgraded the flippy screen from 2.7" to 3".
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Dorian Gray
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2012-04-06, 07:57

The 60D already had a 3-inch display, PB PM.

If I buy an f/2.8 tele-zoom – and I'd love to, eventually – I think I'd get the 80-200 mm f/2.8 AF-D rather than the 70-200 mm f/2.8 VR or VR II. It's cheaper, smaller, and lighter. On the other hand, it lacks VR, some width at the wide end, instant manual-focus override, and probably some image quality.

I wish the 80-200 mm AF-D was on Cicala's parfocal list, since that seems like a useful feature for accurate focus at the wide end.
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PB PM
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2012-04-06, 09:16

The new AF-S model weights about 200g more and 18cm longer than the old AF-D, not a tangible difference in the real world. The AF-D also has a plastic filter thread (what?) vs metal on the AF-S. Apparently the lens hood isn't included either (another what?). Obviously the $1000 price difference is very noticeable in your much lighter pocket book if you go for the modern lens. I wouldn't buy a used AF-S 80-200mm, too big, heavy and known to have AF-S motor issues.

Last edited by PB PM : 2012-04-06 at 09:26.
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Matsu
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2012-04-06, 13:25

I'd try to find a used VR1, you might be able to find it at a reasonable price. I like mine enough, and it's got very nice bokeh, especially for a zoom. From my experience it comes with a bit of learning curve. First, just getting used to the compression effect. Next, understanding that VR didn't exempt me from good technique. Maybe it's just my body shape, and the somewhat front heavy lens, but I can't really prop my left hand under the lens the way I'd like to: my elbow strains to tuck-in while simultaneously cradling the lens. For whatever reasons, maybe something a chiropractor could explain, I'm much more stable with my elbow up and out - universally agreed to be the completely wrong technique. After contemplating all sorts of gunstock type supports, and monopod mods, I found something really easy. I took the handle off an old (1970's) tripod socket flash bracket, and used the 1/4" 20 screw to thread into the lens foot. The handle was designed for the left hand, with a 1/4-20 thread at the bottom and a cold shoe at the top, so flipping it upside down puts the finger grooves facing the wrong way. I haven't gotten around to taking off the molded plastic handle and reversing it to point forward in the new orientation. Still, it was an instant and dramatic improvement. If I move the handle to the forward tripod thread, I can almost reach and turn the zoom ring without taking my hand off the handle itself. Only problem: it does now look a bit like I'm holding a gun. Fine for paid work, not great for roaming the street. So, it may be time for a trip to the hardware store to see if I can't fashion something just right to this purpose.

Finally, the hood kills any prospect of discretion with this lens - I'm often tempted to leave it off unless I know I'm facing stray light in the frame, I should get a couple of decent filters and try it out without hood.

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PB PM
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2012-04-06, 16:08

A lot of pros use a colapsable rubber hood with the 70-200mm. Scott Kelby had some recommendations, but I cannot find a link right now.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-04-08, 09:58

There's a Mamiya rubber hood that fits the 77mm thread and works for the equivalent of about a 70-200. Supposedly it vignettes a tad on full frame, but doesn't effect DX use at all.

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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-04-15, 16:00

Canon just landed a whole whack of video gear - some of it quite interesting.

Yesterday I shot two Communion ceremonies back to back in the same church, as a favor to a friend, no $$$. I mainly used the 70-200, and my newly calibrated D7000. Excellent combination now. Shot most of the time in Manual or Aperture, Auto ISO, center weighted metering. I limit it to ISO 6400, and hit that ceiling a fair bit while keeping shutter speeds between 1/120-1/200, so anywhere from 1/2 to 2 stops slow, depending. I can live with the D7000's ISO 6400 in black and white, and even in colour depending on final file size. I made a conscious effort to stick with that lens, and it's getting easier to stand back and pick out subjects with it - especially good for using some sort of foreground scenery to frame the subjects. I just took the hood right off - it was indoors and the only lighting difficulty was the lack thereof. No flashes during mass.

Some more news on the rumored 28mm f/1.8 is filtering out. If it lands anywhere under $800, it'll be hard not to get it. Two cameras, one DX, one FX, a monopod, and the f/1.8 trio (28, 50, 85) would cover a lot of candid work and pack really small. And then we'll see what happens with the upcoming Tamron 24-70 VC and rumored Nikon 16-35 f/2.8 VR.

Dropped into Henry's - they still anticipate a healthy wait for a D800.

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PB PM
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2012-04-15, 16:48

There is word from Vistek that there have been some problems with D800 production (at least that is what their Nikon rep told them). People who ordered within the few first weeks of the announcement should get them by August at the latest. Any new orders taken, as of this week, shouldn't expect delivery before the end of September! Wow, huge demand!
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Matsu
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2012-04-18, 10:06

More stuff coming today and tomorrow. Need more cash. I used the 24-70 for a studio session in class the other day. It's the third of fourth time I've used it, and every time I do, I want to rush out an buy it. I know some people aren't terribly excited by this focal range, but the lens is just so good. It just "finds" focus - somewhat differently than the 70-200 which seems to "snap" into focus. But if I seem to be implying that the 70-200 is faster, I'm not at all. The 24-70 beats it, but its got a different character about it. It just zeros in smoothly and quickly, no drama, whatever algorithms are communicating the focus data seem to perfectly dampen its acceleration into focus - no hint of hunting, especially on the D700. Very nice.

I know I'm grinding an axe here, but I still think VR would be useful on this puppy, and it's my only reservation.

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PB PM
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2012-04-18, 12:53

Interesting, I find the 24-70 to lock focus fast, but smoothly is not the word I would use. It always does super fast mini hunting before locking focus (every owner I know has seen this behavour). Of course it does that 90% faster than your average AF-S lens.

D3200 rumors are very interesting. Rumored price $900 USD body only!!! Wow.
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Kyros
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2012-04-18, 23:12

Price turns out to be $700 with kit lens, just converting from yen never gets you accurate US prices .

The full-frame 28 f1.8 is also $700, which seems like a nice deal if you're looking for that focal length.

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PB PM
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2012-04-19, 01:25

Not too bad, a $50 increase over the release price of the D3100 with 18-55mm. Nikon Canada is charging an extra $50 over the US price... errr, the dollar value between Canadian and US prices on Nikon items has slipped in the last year or so, despite the dollars being all but even. ($749.99 CDN w/kit lens).

The 28mm F1.8G is a little pricy ($749.99 CDN), but it does have nano coating and is a gold ring lens... interesting. It is big, like twice the size of the 50mm F1.8G! So much for a nice compact prime. Close focus is 25cm, not bad! Now they just need to make a 20mm F2G and I'll be happy, since I have 28mm covered with the 24-70mm already. Why I wouldn't get the new 28mm, well I haven't used my 50mm F1.8G since I got the 24-70mm F2.8G.

Last edited by PB PM : 2012-04-19 at 01:43.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-04-19, 07:28

28mm: Not bad at all. OOF rendering looks quite nice in samples, image plane appears flat in people pic, so looks like a winner, though I'm not seeing full size samples. I think I would use this lens the same way on either DX or FX. Street prime. On FX for either of 28 or 35mm perspective, cropping it down to 1.2x for the latter. On DX as a 42mm normal lens, framed a little wide, and tweaked with just a smidge of crop, but only if the composition required it. 40-45mm can have a little prettier dimensionality than 50 for some subjects.

I didn't see whether the 3200 has the same 11 point AF as the 5100. Could be decent, though the viewfinder will probably suck, and like all Nikon's small DSLR's it doesn't have a sub command dial - which is annoying. Also remains to be seen whether Nikon has applied any special sauce to the 24MP APSC that lifts it above the NEX7/A77...

WU-1a could attract a lot of hackers. It's very cheap. I wonder what sort of firmware support is required in the camera to make it work? This sort of solution should be universal across all their cameras, DSLR, Nikon 1 and Point and Shoot.

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Kyros
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2012-04-19, 12:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
28mm: Not bad at all. OOF rendering looks quite nice in samples, image plane appears flat in people pic, so looks like a winner, though I'm not seeing full size samples. I think I would use this lens the same way on either DX or FX. Street prime. On FX for either of 28 or 35mm perspective, cropping it down to 1.2x for the latter. On DX as a 42mm normal lens, framed a little wide, and tweaked with just a smidge of crop, but only if the composition required it. 40-45mm can have a little prettier dimensionality than 50 for some subjects.

I didn't see whether the 3200 has the same 11 point AF as the 5100. Could be decent, though the viewfinder will probably suck, and like all Nikon's small DSLR's it doesn't have a sub command dial - which is annoying. Also remains to be seen whether Nikon has applied any special sauce to the 24MP APSC that lifts it above the NEX7/A77...

WU-1a could attract a lot of hackers. It's very cheap. I wonder what sort of firmware support is required in the camera to make it work? This sort of solution should be universal across all their cameras, DSLR, Nikon 1 and Point and Shoot.
It does have the 11 point AF. If you need a second command dial, the entry level obviously isn't for you. Not to single you out or anything, but I don't understand why so many people complain about features that have never been at that price point.

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PB PM
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2012-04-19, 12:22

Considering that the D3000 and D3100 had the same 11 point AF, it seemed only logical for the D3200 to have it as well.
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Matsu
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2012-04-19, 12:53

Got to complain about something. I haven't even seen the camera yet, so really the criticism is about all of Nikon's small body DSLRs. Two command dials make a huge difference for functionality and would be a relatively simple addition... not a deal breaker in any case.

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PB PM
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2012-04-19, 13:53

The only time not having two dials really gets in the way is manual shooting mode, beyond that it's no biggy. Other features of low end cameras bother me more, like the tiny viewfinder, and no hard buttons for ISO and WB.
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Kyros
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2012-04-19, 14:07

Nikon doesn't use sensors (generally) to separate its DX cameras, so there needs to be some reason to get the more expensive cameras. There's no point in complaining that a D3200 isn't a D7000.

Nikon's been on a roll lately with their entry level offering in my opinion.

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PB PM
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2012-04-19, 14:13

Yup, the D3100 was the top selling DSLR in most areas over the last few years, and for a good reason. It's well balanced, I'm not sure the same could be said for this new camera. RAW files will be around 40MB! The MP race is back, thanks to Sony.
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Matsu
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2012-04-24, 07:06

Think Tank just launched a new Retrospective Bag, the R7. Looks like it's more or less the size of an R10. A smidge wider and shorter, the interior is tiny bit less deep front to back. They basically massaged the R10 proportions to incorporate a dedicated iPad or 11" MBA sleeve. Maybe a tiny bit less roomy as a camera bag, and a bit better as a travelers everyday bag.

ePhotozine has a Tamron 24-70 review. Judging by their test, which seems a little incomplete, it looks generally sharper than the Canon 24-70 L1, which they also have tested in the past. One sample shows ugly onion-like bokeh, also noted in the review. But the real foible may be the 2.5+ stops of vignetting wide open. Sometimes this is overstated. It doesn't look too bad in either the f/2.8 outdoor shot or the f/4 still life shot, though it's really noticeable in the latter, it's at the extreme corners. Not enough info on focus and stabilization performance yet...

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Matsu
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2012-04-25, 20:01

Tasty Rumor D600

Lots of speculation, but not completely insane, particularly if it drives the entry level FX cost down nearer 2500 or so. Just don't expect it until both the D4 and D800 have enjoyed a more months of healthy sales. Maybe by end of year...

However, if they're going through the trouble, I vote for a Digital FE/OM1/AE1 equivalent with AF and dual command dials of course, but small, retro-ish in the fashion I believe Brits sometimes describe as tech-tro - a bit boxy, big bright viewfinder, with a huge magnification and very high eye-point (think OM), no flash, AF-S only, to further reduce size/weight, accessory grip needed for higher FPS. Something that breaks new ground in DSLR size reduction, or basically the old ground of pre-AF era SLRs. Something that stares down the EVF and RF boffins and says, yes an SLR can work the street too. Come on NEEKON, do it, if you think the D800 is sales hit, just watch what happens if you create a D600 a la Matsu-son's recipe...

I present this image Nikon vs M6

It is possible. The lenses are a bit bigger in DSLR designs, but not obtrusively so. Any of the 28, 35, 50, and 85 f/1.8 designs are compact enough. Some f/2.8's could be even smaller.

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PB PM
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2012-04-28, 03:15

So some more nice Nikon rumors coming. Nikon recently filed patents for a 17mm F4 Tilt shift lens, 10mm F4 wide angle (FX) prime, 28mm F1.4, and 16-30mm F3.5-4.5 (aimed at D600 buyers, along with 24-70mm F3.5-4.5?)

Speaking of the D600, the tastiest rumor so far is that it could cost as little as $1500 USD! The same rumors say no AF motor (to cut costs), 95-96% viewfinder. I'd also hazard a guess that it will lack the AI metering tab and CPU lens data entry and might even lack weather sealing and a metal body. I couldn't see Nikon getting an FX sensor into a low cost body and still having those features. I also think this body would be made in Thailand. It just makes sense consider that Nikon opened new DX plants in China late last year/early this year.

At the same time, more books for the D400 keep popping up on Amazon as well. So we might still see a "Pro" DX body along with an entry level FX body. To be honest, I'd be tempted to grab the pro DX body, unless the D600 has a lot better performance than the D700.
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Matsu
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2012-04-28, 06:46

That's brilliant. Some people will complain about the neutered mount, but who really cares? A $1500 FX DSLR is going to get a whole lot of people buying and needing new lenses anyway. It's the best thing they could do. They should probably keep one higher spec DX camera in the line-up for wildlife/telephoto sports shooters (a D400?) but if the best they offer is an upgraded D7000, honestly, that's enough. There aren't substantially better APSC bodies anyway, a few more FPS and a couple of MP here or there, but that's it.

Nikon and Canon do have to worry somewhat about the encroachment of compact system cameras.

It makes abundant sense to play to their strength by pushing the real advantage of DSLR systems - the full 35mm frame. Whatever they have to do to bring it to a new market, that's what they should do. Cheaper bodies and smaller lenses fit the bill extremely well. With f/4 glass, FX still gathers marginally more light onto the frame than f/2.8 on DX. while being more or less the same size. When mounted to FX, even Nikon's pedestrian 24-85mm f/2.8-4 schools every single f/2.8 APSC variant mounted it's native crop. It reaches wider, longer, it collects more light across the frame at the wide end, it's cheap and it's just as compact. They'll need to issue an AF-S version, but they already did once (the short lived f/3.5-4.5) and now there's a 24-70 patent.

The only think I think they need is a bit of classic styling... well, not really styling, although Fuji is exploiting it to great effect that's not the right word. Classic proportions, that's right. As described above these would put the camera into Leica M sized hands and bags. Add some primes, and you'll have the largest sensor "compacts" you've ever seen!

I'd buy two and drop them in a bag with a 28-50-85 trio.

There are some events that I'd shoot with three mounted permanently to the same. It woudn't cost more than the usual f/2.8 zoom pairing on a D800 and a back-up camera, but it would give a very different look...

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