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Netflix spins DVD-by-mail service off into "Quixster," adds game rentals


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Netflix spins DVD-by-mail service off into "Quixster," adds game rentals
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chucker
 
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2011-09-19, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
Read an interesting thought somewhere (sorry I got lost in the web, so I have no link):

If Netflix and Qwikster were two companies that had grown separately, it would seem really prudent for them to merge now. Netflix could fill the gaps in its streaming library with DVDs by mail and Qwikster could offer streaming for the times while you're waiting for their DVDs. Plus! They could combine your accounts and give you a single queue and ratings system. It would be really cool.
The former offers obvious benefits for the customer, but represents present-situation thinking, not skating where the puck is going to be. The synergy is rather short-term. We already know it won't last.

The latter isn't in Netflix's interest:
Quote:
Netflix’s holy grail is to get each person, not each household, to have a separate streaming subscription, the way everyone also has a separate Facebook account. Separating a per-household service like DVD rentals-by-mail helps simplify that eventual transition.
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psmith2.0
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2011-09-19, 14:09

That was my other question (which I forgot to ask)...I assume, from ezkcdude's post, that there's a downside to the streaming-only plan in the lack of selection/choice or newest releases?

Is there a site that keeps a running tally of Netflix's streaming-only offerings? I don't care that much about new movies, but how "new" are we talking here? Weeks, months or years after the movie is released to traditional (disc-based) home-viewing?



EDIT: Nevermind, I think I found one.

I think I could have a fine go of things with just what's available via streaming. That $7.99/month...what does that allow for? What does that get me? A certain number or hour's worth of viewing? Or is that anything I can cram in, to any of my devices (iPhone, iMac and TV)? If I'm traveling and I want to lie in a hotel bed or sit in an airport terminal with time to kill and stream a movie to my iPhone or (pretend I have one) iPad, I can do that too?
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spotcatbug
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2011-09-19, 14:11

One thing I noticed recently (since the fee split) is that browsing Netflix when you have a streaming-only plan is very discouraging. It doesn't feel nice. It's like you're a second-class citizen (which is true, actually). I hadn't been as aware of how truly lacking the streaming library is. Every search I do on Netflix presents me with a "Ha! Ha! That's not available for streaming... loser," experience. This split will at least mitigate that. That is, unless they continue to show you results for movies that they don't have in their streaming library.

Ugh.
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spotcatbug
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2011-09-19, 14:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
That $7.99/month...what does that allow for? What does that get me?
You get unlimited streaming from their streaming library. It actually is a good deal (in my opinion).

I have done streaming to one TV via Roku, while streaming to another TV via Wii. I have also done streaming to an iPad. I haven't tried all three at the same time - I don't think my Internet connection would like it too much.

Ugh.
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ezkcdude
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2011-09-19, 14:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
That was my other question (which I forgot to ask)...I assume, from ezkcdude's post, that there's a downside to the streaming-only plan in the lack of selection/choice or newest releases?

Is there a site that keeps a running tally of Netflix's streaming-only offerings? I don't care that much about new movies, but how "new" are we talking here? Weeks, months or years after the movie is released to traditional (disc-based) home-viewing?



EDIT: Nevermind, I think I found one.

I think I could have a fine go of things with just what's available via streaming. That $7.99/month...what does that allow for? What does that get me? A certain number or hour's worth of viewing? Or is that anything I can cram in, to any of my devices (iPhone, iMac and TV)? If I'm traveling and I want to lie in a hotel bed or sit in an airport terminal with time to kill and stream a movie to my iPhone or (pretend I have one) iPad, I can do that too?
It's unlimited. Watch anywhere. Anytime. For however long you want.
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chucker
 
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2011-09-19, 14:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Streaming only is great if you don't care about watching new movies.

If you watch a lot of movies, say more than 6 per month, the DVD/Blu-Ray service is still the best way to go. I get the 2 DVD at a time service for $14.99, which amounts to 8 discs per months for me. That would cost something like $40 per month on Amazon or Apple.
This all presupposes that prices will change the same. There is no technological barrier that makes streaming inherently more expensive; if anything, the far simpler logistics should make it cheaper.

(I fully agree that pricing has a long way to go. I've bought songs off of iTunes Store, but movies? Even rentals? Terrible deal.)
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psmith2.0
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2011-09-19, 14:16

Wow. Thanks. That sounds wonderful. I'd take that over every giving money to Comcast or any other cable outlet again...
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ezkcdude
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2011-09-19, 14:16

Amazon doesn't have quite a good a selection, but if you already are an Amazon Prime member, their streaming is unlimited and free. Prime costs $80 per year last I checked. Like I said, though, the selection isn't quite as good as Netflix.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2011-09-19, 14:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Agreed. To be fair, though, for most of their existence, they were DVD-only (I think?), so that's what they're commonly associated with.
I'd have to count days to see if it was most of their existence, but you're right: Netflix did achieve huge popularity as a pure DVD-by-mail company before they introduced streaming. To many consumers they're still primarily associated with those red envelopes. Watching their streams on a TV requires a game console, "media streamer," or "connected TV," and there's a lot of people in America who still have plain DVD players.

Many of the people who cancelled due to the price hike were DVD-by-mail users who were unaware they didn't have to pay for streaming if they would never use it. Whenever you restructure services in such a major way, there's bound to be consumer confusion. I don't think Qwikster is helping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
Presumably to dissociate themselves ASAP. This isn't a sister company; it's more of a dispose-off than a spin-off.
Yup. They don't want it to sound like it's related to Netflix because the hope is that soon it won't be.

Netflix is clearly hoping to sell the by-mail service while it's still worth something, while also working towards making it totally irrelevant for whoever ends up owning it.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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chucker
 
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2011-09-19, 14:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Netflix is clearly hoping to sell the by-mail service while it's still worth something, while also working towards making it totally irrelevant for whoever ends up owning it.
Well, you could also continue to sell DVDs while telling everyone that upcoming streaming products will be far better (a.k.a. the Nokia™). Or buy a competitor, then discontinue all of its and your own products (a.k.a. the HP®). Or merge with some obscure company that makes a platform that some intarnetz technology was made on, then reinvent yourself and become the most valuable company 15 years later (a.k.a. the Apple).

But, no, this isn't so unclever at all. Clumsily worded blog entry, sure, but somewhere deep down, I think they know what they're doing.
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zippy
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2011-09-19, 14:40

I think this probably has much to do with the ongoing negotiations over licensing fees to the MPAA. I don't know exactly how, but I think that Netflix probably thinks they gain some ground in the negotiations if they don't offer both a streaming and a DVD rental service at the same time.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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Robo
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2011-09-19, 14:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
One thing I noticed recently (since the fee split) is that browsing Netflix when you have a streaming-only plan is very discouraging. It doesn't feel nice. It's like you're a second-class citizen (which is true, actually). I hadn't been as aware of how truly lacking the streaming library is. Every search I do on Netflix presents me with a "Ha! Ha! That's not available for streaming... loser," experience. This split will at least mitigate that.
This is true, and a good point.

I still feel like nobody's really gotten TV-on-the-webs right yet. Hulu is close, Netflix is closest (Apple is...nowhere close), but still...

Selection is a part of it, but not all of it. Hulu is too complicated (two tiers of show selection, many episodes are only available for a few weeks, playback on many devices only available with "Plus") and lacks an ad-free option. Netflix generally lacks episodes as soon as they air, and has no ad-supported option.

I guess my ideal service would be like this: Everybody gets the same episode selection and can view them on any supported device. (This would be good for sharing — you would be able to send people links to episodes without worrying that they wouldn't be able to watch it.) No rolling "last five episodes" either — once a show was on the service it'd be there to stay, contracts permitting, like Netflix. (Again, good for sharing.) Ad-supported a la Hulu, with the only option a paid ad-free subscription for, say, $7/mo? But this wouldn't change anything else.

Oh, and a discussion board for each episode.

I guess it sounds a little like Spotify for TV. Or Hulu without the suck. What do virtually all my friends do when a show isn't viewable on Hulu or the network's website? They don't not watch it. They don't buy it on iTunes. They go to Google, type in "watch [show]," and watch a version someone is illegally streaming elsewhere. (The hipper ones torrent it.) Networks think people value their shows enough to buy them all on DVD or iTunes. People might value their favorite shows enough to buy on DVD or iTunes. But most shows, people just want to watch, probably only once, and they're used to watching them for free with ads. And if the networks don't allow that (online), people will find a site that does. It's not hard.

The only thing networks are missing out on is the ad revenue.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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kieran
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2011-09-19, 14:56

The biggest downfall to this is that if you just have the streaming option, there are basically no new movies on there. THere will be even less once Starz pulls their movies off there in February.

I love the streaming, but I love getting DVDs as well. I think this may just drive me to give up the physical media, although I don't want to give up access to new releases.

No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now.
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Robo
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2011-09-19, 14:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
But, no, this isn't so unclever at all. Clumsily worded blog entry, sure, but somewhere deep down, I think they know what they're doing.
Oh, I'm not saying it's not clever. It'll certainly be clever if they can find a buyer.

What would be "unclever" would be buying Qwikster. Even ignoring the whole "optical media through the mail? srsly?" thing, by buying Qwikster you would be giving Netflix a boatload of money...that they would then use to improve their service, killing your Qwikster offering.

You would be entering the rental arena by giving a large sum of cash to your biggest threat.

Still, I'm sure they'll be able to find someone to buy it. Somebody bought Blockbuster, after all.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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alcimedes
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2011-09-19, 15:14

I just added the netflix new movie RSS feed. Since Aug. 1 there have been 579 movies added to the streaming service.
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ezkcdude
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2011-09-19, 15:15

So, this makes the Qwikster vs. Redbox competition more interesting. I didn't really think twice about Redbox before today, but maybe I'll look into it now, since I have to have two separate services anyway.
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Maciej
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-09-19, 15:17

I dropped my instant streaming account earlier this month, in anticipation of the price hike and after hearing about the most recent contract difficulties with Starz. Haven't missed it yet, but we'll see how it goes.

User formally known as Sh0eWax
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Robo
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2011-09-19, 15:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
So, this makes the Qwikster vs. Redbox competition more interesting. I didn't really think twice about Redbox before today, but maybe I'll look into it now, since I have to have two separate services anyway.
It's pretty easy to get free Redbox rentals using promo codes (thx Google!). Or, it was when I was last using them regularly. And if you don't give them your email each time, you can use each promo code on every card you have.

Yes, I am a cheapass.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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torifile
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2011-09-24, 22:52

Maybe there's a method to this Netflix madness. This seems to be a little bit of a stretch but bear with me:

- on Monday, Netflix announced this Qwickster nonsense
- on Thursday, Facebook had their f8 conference at which they announced all sorts of media partners and ways to share data about users.
- also on Thursday, there was a hearing in congress to get privacy laws changed so that rental information could be shared

Netflix said that they cannot share data about users with Facebook because of the aforementioned law.

My guess is that Facebook is paying Netflix a shit ton of money for their data and that Netflix is preemptively splitting their DVD business off entirely to circumvent these rental privacy restrictions. Why else would they silo their data and businesses so much?

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Robo
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2011-09-24, 23:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
My guess is that Facebook is paying Netflix a shit ton of money for their data and that Netflix is preemptively splitting their DVD business off entirely to circumvent these rental privacy restrictions. Why else would they silo their data and businesses so much?
Occam's razor answer: they're preparing the by-mail service for sale.

Netflix is trying to make their own legacy business obsolete. If they don't, someone will; they know the by-mail business isn't the future. They could either hold on to it as it declines in value until it's absolutely worthless, or they could sell it while they still can and use that money to improve their streaming service, giving them pole position in the race that matters.

There's benefits to Netflix's image, too. They want to be seen as the leader in Internet streaming, and the association with those red envelopes instead cements the idea of Netflix as the movies-by-mail company.

What you're saying is probably true; I'm sure Netflix would like to open an auxiliary revenue stream by sharing user data with Facebook. But that's what the congressional hearing was about; legally, they can silo the data between the two services all they want but they're still the same company. (Though this could certainly be a contributing factor in Netflix wanting to ditch the rental business sooner rather than later.)

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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dmegatool
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2011-09-25, 00:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
Every search I do on Netflix presents me with a "Ha! Ha! That's not available for streaming... loser,"
Selection in Canada is even worst and I'm not disappointed... well... not that much disappointed. I think you have to use it differently. I pratically never search for something and just browse to see what's interesting. Selections based on your ratings are somewhat decent. If you're starting to search for something specific, you can be there all night long before you find something you wanted...

Dave Mustaine :"God created whammy bars for people who don't know how to solo."
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torifile
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2011-09-25, 05:30

Quote:
(Though this could certainly be a contributing factor in Netflix wanting to ditch the rental business sooner rather than later.)
Exactly my point. If they break Qwickster into another company, they can say, pretty convincingly, that their customers are not "renting" movies even if in practice it's the same thing. We know that industry views streaming as very different from renting and I think that by breaking off the streaming from the rentals, they're going to try to get around the restrictions.

As far as Occam's Razor - this explanation is actually very simple and it makes perfect sense. I mean, all of us in here were struggling to find an answer for this move and the one we settled on was "Netflix is stupid" but that doesn't lead to this particular event being explained. My proposal does.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-10, 07:32

This guy (and company) is clueless and/or lacks balls.... what a mess....

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...s-on-qwikster/

Quote:
Abandoning a break-up plan it announced last month, Netflix said Monday morning that it had decided to keep its DVD-by-mail and online streaming services together under one name and one Web site.

The company admitted that it had moved too fast when it tried to spin-off the old-fashioned DVD service into a new company called Qwikster.

“We underestimated the appeal of the single web site and a single service,” Steve Swasey, a Netflix spokesman, said in a telephone interview. He quickly added: “We greatly underestimated it.”
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ezkcdude
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2011-10-10, 07:38

Cool. At least they got it right in the end.
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Banana
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2011-10-10, 07:52

I have to admit it just makes it even more confusing and leaves more questions than answers.

For example, when this was originally announced, there were speculations that the impetus behind the move was to gain a bargaining chip with the studios and thus push for better pricing and/or content structure if they're a streaming-only service. If this was true, then I'd have think they'd have had held their ground and sticked to the plan, a la iMac - floppy disk drive.

But now this says either their have no balls or they were not thinking clearly WRT what they were doing.

Maybe it's just one time stupidity (maybe the announcement was made while CEO was drunk or something?), though, and I hope that's the case. Netflix isn't a Microsoft, you know.
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kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
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2011-10-10, 08:17

I'm glad the right decision was made in the end, but damn, that was a messed up process by a major company.
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chucker
 
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2011-10-10, 08:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
But now this says either their have no balls or they were not thinking clearly WRT what they were doing.
Sure looks like it.
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drewprops
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2011-10-10, 09:12

Time for new leadership.
Actually, time for ANY SORT OF leadership.


...
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addabox
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2011-10-10, 09:58

Isn't it time for another rambling apology/justification from Reed Hastings? I always enjoy those.

"I messed up again. I owe you money. Wait, what was I saying? I had this weird dream where I started making random changes to Netflix while wearing no pants and everybody laughed. But I'm awake now! As far as I know! Bygones!"

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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ezkcdude
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2011-10-10, 10:14

I expect Reed Hastings to announce a 4" screen. Just because. Dude has his finger on the pulse of the American consumer.
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