[PB PM]

Originally Posted by alcimedes >As for an Apple branded TV, why? There is nothing wrong with the TV we have now, I just want a box that is better than the junk provided by the cable company. I'd say for the same reason they don't sell their OS to other phone manufacturers and they don't sell their computer OS to other hardware vendors. Apple likes to control 100% of the process.

Unless Apple starts to make LCD panels there is no point, they still would not have 100% control. In other words, Apple making an actual TV is pointless. All they need is a box with a remote that does all those things from one place. Heck they could event give you w way to program the remote to turn your TV and the box at the same time.

[Eugene]

It's not about controlling the supply chain. It's not like any component inside an Apple device is actually fabricated in an Apple facility. It's about margin and TVs have basically none.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by PB PM Unless Apple starts to make LCD panels there is no point, they still would not have 100% control. In other words, Apple making an actual TV is pointless. All they need is a box with a remote that does all those things from one place. Heck they could event give you w way to program the remote to turn your TV and the box at the same time.

Virtually every product Apple makes is just as dependent on the LCD panel and yet they don't make them and aren't in 100% control.

[Eugene]

Right, Apple keeps suppliers in check by using more than one at any given time, not by manufacturing anything themselves. And when there's only one supplier of a technology, Apple just resorts to bullying to get what they want. See GT Advanced

Other examples:
Both TSMC and Samsung make A8 processors

My 2011 MacBook Air came with an AU Optronics panel, but also could have come with a Samsung or LG panel. It came with a Toshiba SSD, but also could have come with a Samsung instead. I got the worst possible combo here.

[turtle]

Doesn't the ability to bully their way into what they want kinda result in control? Sure they didn't make the panel, but they sure made sure it was the way they want it.

[alcimedes]

The point being, the AppleTV in its current design/inception will never make any significant headway or difference in the media consuming world.

It can be easily replaced by built-in software, or half a dozen or more other media streaming devices, many with more media options for less money.

Unless Apple is going to bring something game changing to the table, this is a pointless market for them to persue with their current AppleTV line, as they've already basically lost.

[Eugene]

1) TVs aren't something habitually upgraded. You basically use your TV until it dies or upgrade your living space.

2) Hardware does move along in that time. I'd rather buy a new <$100 AppleTV every couple of years with increased capabilities than be stuck with what's in my Samsung.

3) I gain flexibility. If Apple doesn't make a 70" TV for my home theater, or a 26" for my kitchen, I still get a consistent experience.

4) I can't stress enough that TVs aren't profitable. Plasma technology is dead. Pioneer stopped making TVs. Sharp is pulling out of North America. Sony Financial prop up its ailing businesses like its TV business.

5) It's all about content and convenience. Cable is still the dominant content delivery method. It still has exclusives and regional sports networks that I don't want to lose. If Apple can strike a deal with Comcast to become its hardware supplier while also upturning their business model, we all win.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Eugene 5) It's all about content and convenience. Cable is still the dominant content delivery method. It still has exclusives and regional sports networks that I don't want to lose. If Apple can strike a deal with Comcast to become its hardware supplier while also upturning their business model, we all win.

But what would be in it for Comcast? I don't see what interest Comcast would have getting in bed with Apple. It would only serve to weaken their control.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses But what would be in it for Comcast? I don't see what interest Comcast would have getting in bed with Apple. It would only serve to weaken their control.

Comcast is bleeding CATV customers. More people are cord-cutting than ever.

If they exclusively partner with Apple on an IPTV service they have a huge advantage over other cablecos. It's not quite AT&T and the iPhone, but pretty close...

I imagine the service wouldn't be tied to their own HFC (hybrid fiber-coax) infrastructure. Anyone with a fast enough pipe from a competing ISP can sub to Apple/Comcast TV. If the federal government is gong to keep barring Comcast's expansion plans, they're going to have to rely on virtual expansion instead.

[Yontsey]

Originally Posted by Eugene Comcast is bleeding CATV customers. More people are cord-cutting than ever. If they exclusively partner with Apple on an IPTV service they have a huge advantage over other cablecos. It's not quite AT&T and the iPhone, but pretty close... I imagine the service wouldn't be tied to their own HFC (hybrid fiber-coax) infrastructure. Anyone with a fast enough pipe from a competing ISP can sub to Apple/Comcast TV. If the federal government is gong to keep barring Comcast's expansion plans, they're going to have to rely on virtual expansion instead.

Even though they're the biggest provider out there, they would alienate tens of millions of customers.

[Eugene]

How so? Remember, this service would be infrastructure / ISP agnostic.

[Yontsey]

My bad, I completely missed that last part of the subbing out part.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Eugene Comcast is bleeding CATV customers. More people are cord-cutting than ever. If they exclusively partner with Apple on an IPTV service they have a huge advantage over other cablecos. It's not quite AT&T and the iPhone, but pretty close... I imagine the service wouldn't be tied to their own HFC (hybrid fiber-coax) infrastructure. Anyone with a fast enough pipe from a competing ISP can sub to Apple/Comcast TV. If the federal government is gong to keep barring Comcast's expansion plans, they're going to have to rely on virtual expansion instead.

I really don't think they care. More people are cord-cutting but it's still a small percentage. And, Comcast still supplies the internet to those customers... and the price of the internet without tv package will continue to go up as there is very little competition.

Plus, Comcast's X1 tv service is pretty darn good. I don't see how teaming with Apple helps them.

[Eugene]

Teaming with Apple to do ISP agnostic IPTV is the single juiciest part of the deal. Comcast instantly becomes an option ANYWHERE in the US. People currently paying for competitors' bundles would drop their CATV service if the price of right. What guarantees that this will be cheaper than standard CATV is the lack of infrastructure cost HFC network to increase its subscriber base. Comcast won't have to climb poles or dig holes for this to happen.

I've been wanting this for a while now, and Apple was rumored to have been negotiating with Time-Warner in 2014. But yeah, this is the next logical step for cablecos. They're finally moving away from blasting broadcast channels on different frequencies and using IP over DOCSIS with X1. That's only a half-step though...next is decoupling from DOCSIS altogether.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Eugene Teaming with Apple to do ISP agnostic IPTV is the single juiciest part of the deal. Comcast instantly becomes an option ANYWHERE in the US. People currently paying for competitors' bundles would drop their CATV service if the price of right. What guarantees that this will be cheaper than standard CATV is the lack of infrastructure cost HFC network to increase its subscriber base. Comcast won't have to climb poles or dig holes for this to happen. I've been wanting this for a while now, and Apple was rumored to have been negotiating with Time-Warner in 2014. But yeah, this is the next logical step for cablecos. They're finally moving away from blasting broadcast channels on different frequencies and using IP over DOCSIS with X1. That's only a half-step though...next is decoupling from DOCSIS altogether.

I like your thinking and share your enthusiasm. I just really struggle to see conglomerates like Comcast and/or Time Warner interested in sharing the pie with Apple. It would be an incredible sign of self awareness and humility.... which both are strongly lacking.

I really think Apple missed their chance with this, but I'm sure it's not their fault. The TV content market is a nightmare... infinitely worse than music ever was.

My suspicion is Apple hedged their bets wrong years ago and pushed hard for a la carte service.... pay per channel, show, event, etc... and got no traction and subscription services continued to grow. Now Apple has clearly jumped on the subscription bandwagon. I think it is very safe to bet that there is an "Apple TV" or "Apple Video" and an "Apple Movies" that are scheduled to follow behind Apple Music. But, will they be able to pull it off? Apple's power with iTunes and even more so with Apple Music is personal choice and getting anything you want. To do that with TV and/or movies on a subscription basis doesn't seem possible without being just as expensive as the competition.

[Eugene]

I think cablecos weren't interested in what Apple had to offer back when cord-cutting wasn't as popular. Now they are feeling the burn in a big way.

Also keep in mind that cablecos are scrambling to keep up with growing bandwidth needs. DOCSIS 3.1 will probably be the last viable data-over-cable standard before they will be forced to run fiber right up to people's homes. It would be in Comcast's best interests to entice people to buy an IPTV set-top box so they can reallocate huge chunks of spectrum between 200-1000MHz.

[turtle]

Cox is making that move to fiber to the home with it's Gigablast service. Thankfully that is coming to my area. This will make Verizon either change their pricing or packages to compete. Right not they rule the ISPs in this area with their FiOS that Cox can't hold a candle to.

IP based services really are the future. Getting into an IP set-top box or into a Smart TV menu is really going to be a major factor in the future.

[Brave Ulysses]

Seems momentum and consistency is building in rumors for announcement of a next generation Apple TV at the September 9 event.

Unfortunately none of it sounds all that exciting. A natural progression of feature enhancements, most of which are long overdue.

Most disappointing is the lack of emphasis on a new UI. The existing UI is archaic and cumbersome. But that's also something that Apple may be keeping behind closed doors, even in beta testing.

[kieran]

I just had the living room at my new house rewired with everything and I had to make sure to leave room for whatever Apple will come out with. I'm due for a new AppleTV with a new TV in the house, so I'm really looking forward to this.

I'm hoping it's more of just a natural progression. The UI has to be redone. It's so annoying trying to get anything done.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by kieran I just had the living room at my new house rewired with everything and I had to make sure to leave room for whatever Apple will come out with. I'm due for a new AppleTV with a new TV in the house, so I'm really looking forward to this. I'm hoping it's more of just a natural progression. The UI has to be redone. It's so annoying trying to get anything done.

This. I actually miss cable/satellite just because it was easier to find something to watch. My fiancé and i must spend hours staring at silent mostly black screens slowly scrolling through poster frames trying to find something worthwhile to watch on Apple TV. I'm over it.

[kieran]

What would be awesome is if you could just use Siri to say "I want to watch an episode of Friends"

Then, it searches through the apps that are installed, like Netflix and Amazon Instant, to find an episode.

Also, being able to randomly watch an episode of a TV show on Netflix would be an incredible addition. I'm assuming that it's something to do with the licensing agreements as to why they can't do this yet.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by kieran What would be awesome is if you could just use Siri to say "I want to watch an episode of Friends" Then, it searches through the apps that are installed, like Netflix and Amazon Instant, to find an episode. Also, being able to randomly watch an episode of a TV show on Netflix would be an incredible addition. I'm assuming that it's something to do with the licensing agreements as to why they can't do this yet.

That's what Comcast's X1 does. It's pretty nifty.

[Maciej]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses ...My fiancé and i must spend hours staring at silent mostly black screens slowly scrolling...

Well, on the bright side at least you have a fiancé.

Does anyone else recall Apple buying a small tech company which specialized in aggregating programming data from various streaming catalogs for easy searching / watching?

Edit: Ah yes, I found a Techchrunch article about Apple buying Matcha. I never used the service, does anyone have first hand experience with it?

[kieran]

Never used it either.

ON a related note, I just switched my AppleTv to being wired directly to my Time Capsule and now I can't get AirPlay working. Do I have to do something specific to get it working again?

[Maciej]

I have no specific advice - just basic trouble shooting - but it sounds like a network kerfuffle. Assuming you've restarted the TimeCapsule?

[Brave Ulysses]

1 month in.... aside from some improvements to specific apps and responsiveness, the new Apple TV has not nearly come close to living up to its expectations for me, and it's only been a mild improvement over the Apple TV 3.

Siri is simply too restrictive and limited in its capability and searching with Siri for content really goes against the way most people find something to watch. You have to have some sense of what you want to watch... it helps you find a specific thing, but it does zero to help you discover.

I've said this before, but I'm confident about it now... Apple TV lacks background noise/video... it's a very dull browsing experience. There is no equivalent to channel surfing. It's in and out of apps. That's not how video content has traditionally worked, especially in recent times with on screen tv guides and DVRs, and hundreds of channels.

[turtle]

You know, this Apple TV really needs an App like VLC to allow local storage on the device like you can with the iPad/iPhone. This will allow local storage of videos on the device again. I miss that from the original Apple TV. I miss it a lot.

Siri sucks on here and I don't use it at all. Sirs hasn't found a single thing I want to use it for. No video from my library has ever been found by her. I don't pay for videos from Apple so I guess Siri is going to be worthless. I also don't have my TV play music so I haven't bothered to see if she can find a song in my library but I'm sure she can there.

Plex has made it much more usable to me, not that I had a hard time with the iTunes library though. All of my media in there but having to go to Computers > Library of choice > Type (TV/Movie) > Find the one you want in the list (if it's a TV show, one more level in once you find the season of the show). <--- That process sucks bad. Worse, I generally use the iTunes library to get there but Siri can't find it.

I'm still very annoyed that I can't have an easy method to change Game Center accounts without a bunch of typing out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my Apple TV after using it almost daily (my kids mostly). I'm also not missing the Remote App too much, thought it will be really nice once it works with the new Apple TV again.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by turtle Siri sucks on here and I don't use it at all. Sirs hasn't found a single thing I want to use it for. No video from my library has ever been found by her. I don't pay for videos from Apple so I guess Siri is going to be worthless. I also don't have my TV play music so I haven't bothered to see if she can find a song in my library but I'm sure she can there.

Siri doesn't work with music on Apple TV yet.... weird but true.

[kieran]

Still crazy to me that Siri can't search your local iTunes library. I thought that would be awesome when it was introduced, but apparently it hasn't happened.

Could be coming in the future, but who the hell knows...

[turtle]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Siri doesn't work with music on Apple TV yet.... weird but true.

The more I think about it the more this makes sense. See below.

Originally Posted by kieran Still crazy to me that Siri can't search your local iTunes library. I thought that would be awesome when it was introduced, but apparently it hasn't happened. Could be coming in the future, but who the hell knows...

It makes sense to me really. Apple has been building everything so that you give them more money along the way. Media went from you ripping your own stuff to you buying everything from them. Video included now more than ever. Why allow you to search your own stuff when they can guide you to their store to spend more money.

My phone constantly nags me to buy more iCloud storage because I'm over my limit. I have zero desire to pay a monthly fee to anyone let alone Apple. I backup my phone to my computer, I don't "need" iCloud and 50GB isn't enough for my phone and iPad. If I tried to do my photo library it would near the 1TB option limit.

By the time Apple TV 2 came out it was clear Apple doesn't like your iTunes library, they want you in their iTunes library. If you are willing to pay for movies and TV shows you might love the Apple TV more than anyone else.