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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2015-06-03, 02:17

I suspect the Thunderbolt 3 controller will come in flavors just like the old ones. That means support for one port or two per chip. That also means if you want an rMBP with four Thunderbolt 3 ports, Apple will have to put a second chip on the mainboard.

Armed with that knowledge it's very possible the next rMBP will keep its current array of ports, substituting Type-C connectors for the mDP/Thunderbolt ports only.
Skylake's main controller hub also supports up to ten USB 3.0 ports without additional chips. Apple would likely want keep two of these using Type-A connectors for convenience as well as differentiation. Nothing would be more confusing than having four Type-C ports, but some of them supporting TB3/USB 3.1 and some only supporting USB 3.0.

Of course I could be wrong and Apple will just implement two TB3 chips while removing MagSafe, HDMI and the two Type-A ports.

Last edited by Eugene : 2015-06-03 at 07:25.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2015-06-03, 07:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
I suspect the Thunderbolt 3 controller will come in flavors just like the old ones. That means support for one port or two per chip. That also means if you want an rMBP with four Thunderbolt 3 controllers, Apple will have to put a second chip on the mainboard.

Armed with that knowledge it's very possible the next rMBP will keep its current array of ports, substituting Type-C connectors for the mDP/Thunderbolt ports only.
Skylake's main controller hub also supports up to ten USB 3.0 ports without additional chips. Apple would likely want keep two of these using Type-A connectors for convenience as well as differentiation. Nothing would be more confusing than having four Type-C ports, but some of them supporting TB3/USB 3.1 and some only supporting USB 3.0.

Of course I could be wrong and Apple will just implement two TB3 chips while removing MagSafe, HDMI and the two Type-A ports.
My understanding is that HDMI will be supplanted quickly, since the HDMI 2.0 over USB 3.1 protocol includes the ability to carry digital sound.
If that is true, Apple will likely pull the plug ( ) on it.

Magsafe is gone, in favour of freeing up an extra USB 3.1 port for use on the road.

I really don't see Apple mixing both USB standards. When have they ever done that? Maybe once with Firewire 400 & 800?
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2015-06-03, 07:46

I take it you are assuming Apple would include two power-hungry Thunderbolt 3 controllers for a total of four ports on the new MBPs then?

HDMI has always had digital audio transmission and MagSafe still has the breakaway feature. I also don't understand what you mean when you say the removal of MagSafe frees up an extra port for use on the road. There is plenty of room on the side of the chassis for both ports. MagSafe doesn't replace any single port. If the Mac Pro can have a single HDMI port when it also has six Thunderbolt 2 ports, then I think a naked HDMI 2.0 port can coexist with a couple of Type-C ports.

We'll see how major the update is. I suspect it will be almost identical to the current MBP, except with TB3 ports where the two TB2 ports are now. That also gives them an easy path to another major update in 2016.

I don't see a reason why they wouldn't mix USB standards if they're already mixing video/audio transmission standards. USB 3.0 is on the Skylake chipset x10 whether you want it or not. TB3 is an optional feature found on a companion chip hanging off PCIe.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2015-06-03, 08:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
I take it you are assuming Apple would include two power-hungry Thunderbolt 3 controllers for a total of four ports on the new MBPs then?

HDMI has always had digital audio transmission and MagSafe still has the breakaway feature. I also don't understand what you mean when you say the removal of MagSafe frees up an extra port for use on the road. There is plenty of room on the side of the chassis for both ports. MagSafe doesn't replace any single port. If the Mac Pro can have a single HDMI port when it also has six Thunderbolt 2 ports, then I think a naked HDMI 2.0 port can coexist with a couple of Type-C ports.
I think 4 TB3 ports on the MacBook Pro sounds about right.

If HDMI can be done over an existing port, chances are Apple's not going to give up the battery space to duplicate it. I believe the Mac Pro has an HDMI port for use with displays, whereas the MacBook Pro has HDMI largely to connect to TV screens for presentations. Intel made a big deal about TB3 being able to carry HDMI signals, and I can't see Apple ignoring that when they could eliminate it and add more battery.

MagSafe is tremendously useful, but MagSafe is usually used in conjunction with the charging of the machine and Apple didn't bother to keep it for the new MacBook with the USB 3.1 charging port. It's entirely possible that Apple would keep it as a added value for the Pro, but that means giving up the use of third party chargers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
We'll see how major the update is. I suspect it will be almost identical to the current MBP, except with TB3 ports where the two TB2 ports are now. That also gives them an easy path to another major update in 2016.
Apple's almost certainly going to go thinner with the next update this fall. Because USB-C allows them to do it. Putting USB-A on the side means it stays the same size, and Apple hates that. I don't know if a 4lb 15" MacBook Pro is possible, but I'm sure Apple is trying to get there. It would sell like hotcakes.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2015-06-03, 08:37

Just looked up the specs. Thunderbolt 2 and USB-A ports are both 4.5mm high, whereas USB-C is 2.4mm.

Yep, Apple is going thinner. Because they're Apple.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2015-06-03, 09:14

I doubt they'll go much thinner at all. The only reason why the MacBook can be so thin is because it's using an ultra-low-power processor. The MBP still needs enough battery to power a much larger display and its backlight, blower style fans, a 35-45W CPU and a discrete 35-45W GPU.

And two Thunderbolt 3 controllers according to your desires.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2015-06-03, 10:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
And two Thunderbolt 3 controllers according to your desires.
Hey, I'm not clamouring for 4 TB ports, just saying it's possible.

If wireless charging and gigabit wi-fi are included in the next MacBook Pro upgrade, then Apple may well think that two ports are enough.

But if the ports are truly carrying Displayport, USB, Thunderbolt and HDMI signals, an extra set may be handy for pros.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2015-06-03, 11:17

No extra ports. Just extra adapters.

This is Apple, remember?
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2015-06-03, 17:56

MacBook Pros already a have 3x3 802.11ac, which is 1.3Gbps. And no, they won't have inductive charging. Inductive charging is only useful for smaller, lower power devices. Even the 85W power brick has trouble charging a rMBP running at full tilt.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2015-06-04, 23:36

The disappearance of MagSafe is a crime against the clumsy.

The struggle is real.

...
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2015-06-04, 23:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
MacBook Pros already a have 3x3 802.11ac, which is 1.3Gbps.
Sorry, I didn't mean they'd have Wi-Fi over 1Gbps, I meant they'd have WiGig.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2015-06-05, 00:59

WiGig hasn't been seriously demo'd by any vendor, so I'd be on it being more than a year out from market. Meanwhile 8-way MU-MIMO 160MHz wide channel 802.11ac is more than enough bandwidth for most people.

WiGig just doesn't seem that compelling to me right now...It's main usage case will be wireless HDMI/DP transport, making it much better suited for desktops and home theater devices like set-top boxes, TVs, soundbars, etc.
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2015-06-05, 10:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
The disappearance of MagSafe is a crime against the clumsy.

The struggle is real.

...
I really don't want to lose the MagSafe on the MacBook Pro. If space permits, I don't see an advantage to switching to USB-C for power.

Perhaps, Eugene knows the answer to my next question..... Would USB-C even be able to handle the power throughput necessary to charge a rMBP?
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2015-06-05, 10:51

USB-C is rated to 100W. The 15" RMBP uses an 85W power supply and will charge off a 13" 60W (provided the computer is sleeping or off). Provided those 100W aren't shared with peripherals, I can't see why it wouldn't handle it.

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chucker
 
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2015-06-07, 12:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
My understanding is that HDMI will be supplanted quickly, since the HDMI 2.0 over USB 3.1 protocol includes the ability to carry digital sound.
The only reason Apple eventually added HDMI ports to Macs was convenience. Some early Macs with mini-DisplayPort couldn't carry audio over it, but later ones can, so it's exclusively about fewer adapters.

Therefore, they'll likely stick to that when there's room. When there isn't, there's no point in something like mini- or micro-HDMI, and they'll instead have you use a USB-C port.
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