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Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2010-08-13, 12:28

http://www.electronista.com/articles...ar.blackberry/

Quote:
Android is now larger than the iPhone on the world stage, analysts at Gartner said today. Google's phone platform jumped to 10.6 million phones sold, or enough to overtake the iPhone and take 17.2 percent of the market. The researchers believe Apple sold more iPhones than it shipped, at 8.47 million, but the higher number was still enough to put it at fourth place with 14.2 percent.
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zippy
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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2010-08-13, 12:34

I think this is an interesting and relevant bit of data. It really drives home my opinion that Apple needs to open the iPhone to every possible carrier, including CDMA based companies (via a new phone obviously). I also think Apple needs to consider adding one more model of iPhone. One size does not necessarily fit all.

But what is also a relevant point is that all of Apples eggs are not in one iPhone basket. They have tons iPods and iPads running iOS too. It will be interesting to see how Android tablets sell compared to the iPad. And has anyone developed an Android based MP3 player yet?

So while Android phones maybe outselling iOS phones, there are still far more iOS devices out there than Android devices. And after the numbers from iPhone 4 sales come into play, I'm not eve sure the trend in the phone segment will continue this way.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
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ezkcdude
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2010-08-13, 12:35

deja vu
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chucker
 
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2010-08-13, 12:40

No you!
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-08-13, 12:48

Didn't we try this once before?
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
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2010-08-13, 12:51

We did, but that doesn't mean it can't go better the second time around.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2010-08-13, 12:52

And Sisyphus just made it over the hill.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2010-08-13, 12:57

I don't know about any hill-climbing sissies, but if anyone thinks this time is going to somehow magically "work"...it's all the same damn people, just coming off a three-day break!

Yeah, it's totally different, this go-'round...

I've already got the popcorn going.
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thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2010-08-13, 13:01

I'm in, pass the popcorn.
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-08-13, 13:14

Oooh, make mine with extra butter.

As a developer, I'm much more interested in a platform <-> platform comparison. All iOS shipments vs. all Android shipments.

I mean, if you're going to compare *a* phone (iPhone) against *a whole lotta phones* (Android zoo), and make that a reasonable comparison, then logically extending it out to all devices on each OS makes even more sense.

Of course, as a developer I'd also be interested in seeing a breakdown of platform versions for compatibility.

This type of comparison seems like the least useful. (Which, considering it's coming from Gartner, should surprise no one. They print what they're paid to print. That's their business model. I've gone round with them a few times, and it always comes down to "You want us to mention you? Write us a check *thiiiiiiiiiiiis* big.")
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BenP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2010-08-13, 13:16

Hey, it's a good topic Like I mentioned in the other thread, I tried out an EVO for a month and returned it for an iPhone. I still think Android is a great platform and has a lot of strengths over iOS.

I hope that going forward, Google takes a Snow Leopard-type approach and has an Android release that is focused entirely on cleaning up the basic stuff, like smoother scrolling, better bundled apps (like the browser and media player), and system stability. Apple, on the other hand, needs to include different service providers, improve notifications, and I'd like to see them allow things like different keyboards and widgets. I don't really think they need any more iPhone models; what would they change on a new model to differentiate it from the current one?

And the Android Market and App Store both need a serious overhaul.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2010-08-13, 13:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
Oooh, make mine with extra butter.

As a developer, I'm much more interested in a platform <-> platform comparison. All iOS shipments vs. all Android shipments.
You only have to count iPads, the less popular non-phone iOS device, to outstrip Android's numbers. Throw iPod touch numbers in and it's not even close. If Apple sold 5 million iPod touches this quarter then they sold 16 million iOS devices.

So in the weakest quarter for iPhones, iOS devices still outsell Android devices by a factor of about 1.5. As a platform, iOS is both larger and growing faster than Android.

None of these numbers count the still sold out iPhone 4.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2010-08-13 at 13:39. Reason: misread Android's numbers at 8m, not 10m, math fixed
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2010-08-13, 13:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
As a developer, I'm much more interested in a platform <-> platform comparison. All iOS shipments vs. all Android shipments.
I'm thinking that when there are actual Android tablets available (like the Streak), they probably will include those, or have a separate tracking just for tablet OS.

But to be honest, I think the reason the focus is on phones, is due to the wireless aspect of it, which is obviously important for mobile advertising and carriers.
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-08-13, 14:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
I'm thinking that when there are actual Android tablets available (like the Streak), they probably will include those, or have a separate tracking just for tablet OS.
But why wait? If the comparison is *iOS* vs. *Android* (or even just OS vs OS vs OS vs OS...) then it should be on that basis, not 'a select subset of one OS vs. the entirety of another OS'.

Quote:
But to be honest, I think the reason the focus is on phones, is due to the wireless aspect of it, which is obviously important for mobile advertising and carriers.
Unfortunately, it leads to at best weak conclusions on platform growth and viability.

And, toss in that iOS 4 includes ads over WiFi on the iPod touch, and... that focus on cell capability looks a bit like tunnel vision.

Think about it - do you really think that ad execs are going to ignore the entirety of the iPod touch market? It's highly relevant for them, yet completely ignored in this analysis.

Carriers may not care, but they already have their own internal stats, and now where to find their competitors' stats. This report doesn't really help them at all.
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Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2010-08-13, 14:25

Why is it that Nokia’s smart phone offerings, which are still in the top position in the worldwide market by a big margin, so little discussed? I know that they are bleeding market share, but they are still there. Android, iPhone, BlackBerry and even Palm all at least get their due in discussion. Is Nokia already written off, despite their overall lead?

I am not saying this as a frustrated Nokia fan - I have no opinion about them one way or the other. I am actually just curious why the market share leader is treated almost like it does not exist.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2010-08-13, 14:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
Why is it that Nokia’s smart phone offerings, which are still in the top position in the worldwide market by a big margin, so little discussed?
Because they suck. Horribly designed phones running an ancient, clunky OS.

They're number one because they got in the game super early. But now Nokia sales are in the shitter, and Symbian will probably lose it's lead to either BB, iOS, or Android in the next year (or lose it to all three) at which point people will just be waiting for it to die.

Massive installed base doesn't mean much when you're hemorrhaging market share.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2010-08-13, 14:45

Symbian sucks by being an outdated architecture. MeeGo (née Maemo) sucks by focusing on LOL OPEN and running Qt desktop apps.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2010-08-13, 14:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
But why wait? If the comparison is *iOS* vs. *Android* (or even just OS vs OS vs OS vs OS...) then it should be on that basis, not 'a select subset of one OS vs. the entirety of another OS'.

Should it count all Microsoft PC sales? What about all Linux sales?
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-08-13, 15:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
...and running Qt desktop apps.


Complete with scroll bars and window controls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Should it count all Microsoft PC sales? What about all Linux sales?
Should what count all Microsoft PC sales? I can't tell what your "it" is referring to.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2010-08-13, 15:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post


Should what count all Microsoft PC sales? I can't tell what your "it" is referring to.
The Gartner survey (i.e. the comparison). BTW, I think it was pretty clear what "it" referred to, since Kick also referred to "it". I hope you are genuinely confused, and not just being, well, persnickety.
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Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2010-08-13, 15:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
But why wait? If the comparison is *iOS* vs. *Android* (or even just OS vs OS vs OS vs OS...) then it should be on that basis, not 'a select subset of one OS vs. the entirety of another OS'.
I agree. There aren't many Android devices that aren't phones, but there are a few. Most of those horrible Chinese iPad knockoffs are running Android (after all, it is open source so it costs nothing for them to put it on their devices). Robo posted the rumor that the next PSP will be based on Android. And I believe Samsung is working on a tablet-sized Galaxy S, which would mark one of the first serious attempts by a major company to make a good Android tablet. So far there's been a lot of vaporware.

The Dell Streak is a phone IMO, not a tablet, because it requires a voice plan. I think it would have been better as less of a phone and more of an iPad alternative. Right now it's sort of like a smaller version of the $630 3G iPad (it comes with a 16 GB microSD card), but at $550 unsubsidized it's not enough of a savings. And the required voice plan is pretty unfortunate compared with the iPad's contract-free and affordable data-only plans. Then again, this is AT&T, and they've shown that they're really not interested in making Android devices desirable on their network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Because they suck. Horribly designed phones running an ancient, clunky OS.

They're number one because they got in the game super early. But now Nokia sales are in the shitter, and Symbian will probably lose it's lead to either BB, iOS, or Android in the next year (or lose it to all three) at which point people will just be waiting for it to die.

Massive installed base doesn't mean much when you're hemorrhaging market share.
Worldwide, sales of Symbian devices are still increasing in terms of raw numbers. They're losing market share as a percentage though. I don't know Nokia's sales numbers but they still sell a massive number of devices. Of course, most of those are dumbphones.

Have you actually used a Symbian device? I haven't, just asking because you seem to really hate them. Personally I think Symbian gets ignored simply because they have next to no US presence.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-08-13, 15:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
The Gartner survey (i.e. the comparison). BTW, I think it was pretty clear what "it" referred to, since Kick also referred to "it". I hope you are genuinely confused, and not just being, well, persnickety.
Should a survey of mobile market share count desktop PC totals? No, it should not.
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ezkcdude
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2010-08-13, 15:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post

Worldwide, sales of Symbian devices are still increasing in terms of raw numbers. They're losing market share as a percentage though. I don't know Nokia's sales numbers but they still sell a massive number of devices. Of course, most of those are dumbphones.
It matters to stockholders who care only about profits going forward.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-08-13, 15:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
Have you actually used a Symbian device? I haven't, just asking because you seem to really hate them. Personally I think Symbian gets ignored simply because they have next to no US presence.
Once, a very long time ago, when I was considering a smartphone in the pre-iPhone days.

Maybe I'm a little hard on Symbian, but it really does seem like nobody cares about them. Reading about Symbian online tells me that most of it's technology is ancient, and none of the screen shots I've seen make it look particularly appealing.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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ezkcdude
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2010-08-13, 15:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Should a survey of mobile market share count desktop PC totals? No, it should not.
Hmm...and here I thought netbooks and laptops are mobile. Well, at least as mobile as iPads.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-08-13, 15:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Hmm...and here I thought netbooks and laptops are mobile. Well, at least as mobile as iPads.
That's an interesting point, but it would introduce way too much confusion into the situation. You can't count Windows as part of mobile market share because some fraction of Windows devices are mobile. It would skew the numbers to the point of uselessness.

What we're really measuring is market share of operating systems that run exclusively on mobile devices. If Microsoft wants to start taking this seriously, desktop Windows isn't the answer. "Slates" wont take off until they're running some variant of WP7.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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zippy
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2010-08-13, 15:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Should it count all Microsoft PC sales? What about all Linux sales?
No. We're talking about mobile devices. And by mobile, that doesn't include laptops.

The point is, it's perfectly fair and OK for Gartner to put this study out there, as a simple comparison of sales in the phone-only market segment.

But what Kickaha and others are saying, is that anyone who would be a target of this data, who would make business decisions based on this data: would much rather know about saturation of the entire OS, not just that component which is on phones. If you're an advertiser, looking to spend ad dollars on a platform, would you look at this and say "Gee, there's more Android phones than iPhones so my dollars would reach more people on the Android OS"? Or: "There's more Android phones than iPhones so I stand to sell more apps if I develop for Android then iOS"?

These numbers are interesting, IMO, and perfectly fair/OK to publish - but only really relevant for the various fan-clubs to have a back-and-forth pissing match from their various circle jerks.

For people who could actually use and benefit from such information, it is incomplete. OS market share/saturation would be the worthwhile study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Hmm...and here I thought netbooks and laptops are mobile. Well, at least as mobile as iPads.
Those are an entirely different beast. Yes, they are mobile, but their function/purpose/utilization are often quite different. For instance, you don't have in-app ads on desktop applications.

And as a developer, the decision making process would go something like this:
- do I want to develop full-desktop apps or mobile apps?
- or both, in which case, which do I want to do first?
- if I decide to do full-desktop, which platform do I choose?
- if I decide to do mobile, which platform do I choose? (not "which phone do I choose") this is the component that is relevant to this topic.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!

Last edited by zippy : 2010-08-13 at 15:44.
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chucker
 
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2010-08-13, 15:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post


Complete with scroll bars and window controls?
OpenOffice.org on Maemo.

And another shot.

So, yes to scrollbars; no to window controls; it's (to my knowledge) a strictly single-window environment.

Running full desktop apps is considered a feature. I rest my case.
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Kraetos
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2010-08-13, 15:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Running full desktop apps is considered a feature. I rest my case.
That second screenshot hurt my eyes a little. Do they honestly expect people to use that?
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chucker
 
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2010-08-13, 15:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
That second screenshot hurt my eyes a little. Do they honestly expect people to use that?
You think that's bad? Now try to imagine how small those controls actually are on a phone, with a much higher PPI than your regular computer.

Side note: that second screenshot was apparently from Google Knol. I had forgotten about that site.
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