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Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2013-04-08, 17:14

The first time this happened, I was walking in a mini mall parking lot when an ill-kempt man approached me and asked for fifty cents for some coffee. I was so surprised that my usual caution slipped and I foolishly took out my wallet and rummaged through the coin section looking for the change. I can't remember now if I gave him money or not, because I mostly think back to how easily he could have just grabbed my wallet and run off.

The next time, I was in a Costco parking lot locking my car when a woman walked up to me and said she had run out of gas and asked if I could chip in some money so she could go buy some gasoline in a container. I don't think I gave her any money, because I had a few twenties and nothing smaller. Plus, I didn't buy her tale. She was driving a large SUV and I didn't get a truthful vibe from her. And sure enough, about three months later, I saw the same lady in a Target parking lot and she gave me the same story about the gas. I firmly declined her request.

Since then, I can't even count the number of times I've been sitting in my car in a parking lot, eating something from a nearby McDonald's drive-thru, when people walking through the parking lot come over and ask me for money. Sometimes they'll be in a car themselves, and 90% of the time, it's an SUV, fairly monstrous gas guzzlers.

But a few weeks ago, I was jarred out of my safety zone one night when a car came zooming up to mine, turned at the very last second to avoid hitting me in the driver's door, and rolled down her window to speak. The driver said that she was behind on her electric bill, and asked me to come with her to Albertson's (a large grocery store) and pay her bill at the utility company payment window. I was stunned at this request, but she was incredibly insistent and said she had her daughter in the car, as if that proved she was an honest and worthy petitioner. She also had a man and woman sitting close together in the backseat. The driver kept insisting that I do what she asked, and she was so aggressive that I said to her that I was beginning to feel very uncomfortable. I almost said something about calling the police, but I just drove off in a hurry.

I don't know if it's because I'm a woman that all these people come up to me in parking lots. I figured it might be, and I confess that I have given people money. Just recently, I had seen a bent-over old man in the library, and when I saw him outside at the bus stop, I pulled over and handed him $15. I would have given him $40 if I had had it on me at the time. I've given people money who genuinely seemed to be having tough times. But the ladies in the late-model SUVs seem like scammers to me.

So, I thought I'd ask if this sort of thing happens to any of you guys on a regular basis, and what you do about it. I read an article years ago about a guy who was holding a sign asking for money on an off-ramp of the freeway. The article said he made a *lot* of money holding that sign.

So, do you encounter parking lot scams, or any other sort of scam involving hand-outs of money, and how do you generally feel about it, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks for any replies.

Last edited by Windswept : 2013-04-29 at 16:46.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-04-08, 17:48

In recent years a glut of corner beggars have appeared in my neighborhood which is normally a very 'last place you'd expect to see beggars' type of neighborhood. Recently, I heard tell that they are in fact bused(or vanned rather) out here because it's a wealthier neighborhood and they are more likely to get larger handouts. So it's almost like 'professional begging'. I cannot confirm or deny it, but it does make sense enough that I can see how such a story would spread. Because again, as to the neighborhood it's not like there are any parks that just have homeless people congregating at or any 'colonies' forming in disused areas of the developments or whatever, and for all the times I've been out on foot or driving around those same parking lots and shopping centers at night there is scarcely any evidence at all that any of the people begging by day are actually stuck. On top of that, outside of a couple who have been consistent for years it seems to always be a rotating door of new faces, and they post up at the entrances and exits of most of the major shopping centers(at least the ones that are the most convenient traffic-wise)

So, that is a curious thing. Not difficult to imagine someone 'employing' these people in such a way to skim dollars off of wealthier people and taking a cut out of everything that comes in.

And it's actually been something I've heard before over the years living in suburban areas, that often the 'homeless beggars' that you see are neither homeless or even necessarily so destitute they must beg, but that it actually is just a way for them to make income, maybe not a lot and maybe they're not living well or whatever but call it $20-40/day and it's not impossible to see someone living off of that and having a place to live.


Not too long ago I was walking with some friends at night in Nashville and a man approached us, didn't look particularly hard on his luck, wasn't too dirty or smelly or beat up looking really, and he just started talking at us and telling racist self-deprecating jokes about himself "You see, because of my negroid heritage I have an insatiable urge for fried chicken" type stuff. It was a long sell and maybe we could have been justified in just saying 'fuck off' but ultimately it was a performance of sorts, dumb and baseless as the jokes were, that's how he hooked it. Tell a bunch of jokes and eventually ask for a 'donation', and I mean, in the context of begging for money, at least this dude did put some effort into it. Not really a 'scam', more of a hustle I guess.


It's kind of hard for me to care too much about street-level scams though that siphon a few dollars here and there from unwitting or 'surprised' and 'out-of-element' people, most people can sweat the few dollars and the person pulling the 'scam' in all likelihood is doing exactly nothing to actually achieve any forward momentum in their lives beyond just sort of sustaining/getting by, so it's all relatively harmless to me, no harm no foul sort of thing, call it an 'oops you got me' tax or whatever. The 'scams' that bother me are the ones that are much more overt, involve hundreds if not thousands of dollars and take the form of 'legitimate' businesses, where it is all about making promises bigger than they can necessarily deliver, getting you on surcharges and up-sells, incentivizing with 'too-good-to-be-true' promises or discounts or 'warranties' while being built on a backend of essentially not giving a shit about you at all to where whenever anything might go wrong you're SOL and in for an aggravating/infuriating next couple of months dealing with resolving it. To me, that's the 'scam' that is more noteworthy because it's not, in the strictest sense, even a scam necessarily. The goods or services provided might be acceptable, but the business model that backs it, the support(or lack thereof) that ties into it and the overall dehumanization of it coupled with being in the realm of hundreds if not thousands of dollars, I think that stuff is a bigger deal most of the time.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-08, 18:00

The only people who approach me anymore seem to be those asking for gas money or to "bum a smoke"...all while covered in about $1,000 of trendy, silly-ass tattoos and/or ridiculously guady gold jewelry/"bling".



Priorities, folks. If you're having trouble with the necessities and important things of life (gas for your car, utility bills, etc.), perhaps consider putting the various voluntary and "elective" procedures, pursuits and purchases on hold?

That's what I, and zillions of others, have to do. So don't put me on the hook (or attempt to guilt-trip me) for your irresponsible, boneheaded decision-making. Nothing irks me more than to have my ear bent with hard-luck tales of woe by someone who has more invested in the ink on their body than I probably spend on gas or groceries in 3-5 months.

"When you were getting that 11th tacky/vulgar (and soon to be hilariously passé and lame...not to mention career-limiting) neck tattoo, nimrod, did you maybe stop - just once? - and consider doing something better/smarter with that money?"

Yeah, I didn't think so.

As for scams, who knows? Between the morons I've encountered on Craigslist and out in the world, I just kinda assume most strangers I encounter are about 80% full of crap in whatever they tell me...especially if they're approaching me out of the blue with some elaborate saga and my little internal "bullcrap" detectors are pegging the red.

So, yeah...someone coming up and squawking about their utility bill or whatever - while driving a nicer vehicle than I'll ever own - I'm not that inclined to listen to them.

And it sucks because it's my nature to give and help. But it's getting to where I don't believe anyone about anything. And those who truly need help (and who aren't lying or running some sort of low-level scam) are suffering for it. As usual, a small group of lazy, shiftless, lying and scheming shitheads manage to go and mess things up for everyone else, including the genuinely needy and desperate.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2013-04-08 at 18:13.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2013-04-08, 18:35

My mother-in-law very nearly fell for an online dating type scam (she's a widow and..um..optimistic, I guess). She was messaging with some guy who claimed he was an oil worker, sending messages back and forth - then he claimed to be looking to buy property in the area near here. Then he said he was coming to visit to look at houses.

Luckily, at this point, she told us about it. We said it sounded like a scam and she should be very, very careful.

Next day he send an email saying he's on his way, gives a flight number and everything....but had left his wallet on the oil rig and needs her to send money to cover short-term expenses while he travelled. To an airport Western Union office in, you got it, Nigeria. Luckily, because of our warnings the day before, she was sufficiently wary that this raised a red flag and she didn't send any money, but I don't doubt that she would have sent the money had she not been warned.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-08, 19:06

I hate people like that. They're everywhere, and into everything at this point.

And people ask why I tend to be doubtful and cynical...

Gee, I don't know. A world of low-rent, lying assholes and vipers...all looking to get over on the good-hearted, naive and trusting (or lonely) among us 24/7/365? If I "led with my heart", I would've been broke - and maybe worse? - ages ago.

I do good in various other ways, but my days of "assisting just anyone who comes up to me" are over, I'm afraid. At the very least, a case-by-case basis vs. automatic/knee-jerk lunging for my pockets or wallet...
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-04-08, 19:15

I see it as being a long-term consequence of putting more objective value on money than morality. We insist on treating morality in lenient and transient terms, it's always interpretive and open-ended, "don't tread on me" type of mentality that you can't legislate people into being 'better' and whatever. And maybe that's true, the government wouldn't likely be the proper tool to use for that. Community, on the other hand, would seem to me to fit the bill pretty well with regards to deepening a person's respect for the world around them, the people around them and defusing some of the absolute hysteria and unapologetic selfishness we glorify and promote ceaselessly when it comes to money.

I'm atheistic, and I am perpetually skeptical of organized Religion in a major sense(talk about scams.... how about the biggest one of all) but there is undeniably an attribute of religious organization that promotes and respects a sense of community and of morality and righteousness that, in a best case scenario, at least somewhat offsets a myopic and obsessive predisposition for making money as being on of the imperatives of existence. I can get behind that.

Fat chance for the world though...
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Ebby
Subdued and Medicated
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Over Yander
Send a message via AIM to Ebby  
2013-04-08, 20:00

I get hounded by that Cardholder services phone scam almost daily. I never once gave them my info. No matter how many times you tell them to go away they never get the hint. Seriously, if I didn't fall for it the first 100 times (currently 126 FCC complaints filed) what makes you think I will next time. I've heard they make money somehow by simply placing the call, not by actually scamming someone.

I also came across people asking for gas too. They bug me. Especially if they are persistent. Not like I can walk away from pumping gas to avoid you. Last time there was a row of cars with 2-3 people each parked out in front of each row of pumps. They just walk back and forth every time a new car pulls up. Come on here. They were not in SUV's, heck one was a taxi cab. But putting gas in a car is sort of a requirement to make it go; keep an eye on that. Of course now if anyone legitimately runs out, good luck getting help. :/ I don't trust people preying on kindness anymore. I feel bad for saying it of course, but there is to much to watch out for now.

I just don't give out money in general. I'm cool doing favors or helping out friends, but when values is simplified to cash-on-hand, I get a little insulted. Maybe it is just me though.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
SSBA | SmockBogger | SporkNET
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addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2013-04-08, 20:15

My mom fell for the "Grandma I'm in jail" scam while I was visiting, a few years ago.

She came downstairs and declared that my nephew was in Mexican jail-- that he'd been traveling with friends and they got pulled over and drugs were found in the car-- and that we were going to need to send $5,000 to grease some palms to get him out.

I asked her if she were sure it was Emmett (my nephew, her grandson) and she said yes-- that he was crying really hard but it was him. So at that point we figured it was legit, having never heard of the scam. And Emmett isn't particularly wild, but it didn't seem entirely out of the question that he might have gone down to Mexico on a lark and been in a car where there was some drugs.

So on the off chance that they hadn't taken his cell phone, I call him and he answers. Totally non-chalant, like "Oh hey, yeah, what's up?" And I'm thinking: "Oh my God, my nephew is scamming his grandparents by claiming he's in jail and needs money!" So I put it to him-- that it's surprising that all is well since he just called and claimed he was in Mexico.

And here's were it gets totally weird. He thought I was playing with him, so he played along. Like "Oh shit, you caught me." And I'm seriously questioning him, "Why would you do this to your grandparents" and so on and he thinks it's part of the goof, and keeps coming up with weird scenarios and reasons, like "I killed a guy and I have to flee" and "I'm being held hostage, they made me call."

So since I think he's pulling this fucked up shit, it's totally changed my perception of him and he sounds like he's a sketchy crazy person just yanking my chain for fun. On account he's inexplicably turned evil overnight. And remember, this is all predicated on my Mom being sure that Emmett actually called her and she talked to him on the phone.

So he's in Nashville, about a 90 minute drive from where I am, and I tell him I'm coming up and he's like "Cool! It'll be nice to see you!" And I'm chilled by his casual insouciance, in the face of his crime.

So I get up there and have him come out to the car (just in case somehow there actually are other people involved and they're there with him) and I take him to a cafe and start grilling him. Like "I love you and I need to understand what would drive to this." And suddenly he's like "Oh shit, you think I actually did that? I thought we were playing!" Which to me sounds like a last ditch effort to avoid responsibility, like having been caught out he's going to claim it was all a lark.

But then, very slowly, it begins to dawn on me that he's telling the truth. At this point I've called his mom, who is like "My son did what now? WTF? I don't even...." etc. So she shows up, and we finally manage to establish that it's all been a hideous misunderstanding. And then, finally, I think to Google "Grandma I'm in jail scam" and there it is. Word for word what my mom said went down.

So it's back down to Huntsville to question my poor befuddled mom a little more closely-- how sure was she that it was actually Emmett on the phone? Turns out he was crying really hard and he only said a few words and never actually said his name-- just, "Grandma I'm so sorry I'm in jail I need help" and she just naturally figured it was the eligible grandchild and then actually had to think really hard to realize he hadn't said his name.

So these assholes are calling us back to see how the money transfer is coming along and I get on the phone and say "Listen to me you motherfuckers I swear to God I'll find you and kill you, you miserable sacks of shit, I'll tears your faces off and feed them to pigs", or words to that effect, and of course they just hung up.

I think they just cold call, and most people are like "WTF are you talking about", but when they get a not entirely at the top of her game Grandma it's off to the races. Which just pisses me off so much, and I don't know if things are entirely right between me and my nephew to this day.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-08, 21:24

I've been saying this for ages, but it's especially true these days (since the Internet and our "always connected" mobile lives, etc.). If these people would put 1/10th of the effort into legit pursuits as they do coming up with these silly-ass, convoluted schemes and scams, we'd probably have about 20-25 diseases cured, a national rail system, the next-generation space shuttle would be on about it's 12th mission, etc. If we could just somehow harness the brainpower and energy some people put into being a shady hustler/scammer...

I swear, there are people who wake up every single day with the sole aim of running some sort of scam to get over on someone. And the lengths they'll go through to make it happen, cover their tracks, come up with good fronts, keep all their lies and bullcrap straight, stay one step ahead of the fuzz, etc. blows my mind. Holy smokes...why not take that energy, initiative and cleverness and actually put it to work for good, decent or noble things?!? Or, at the very least, something legit that doesn't brand you as a predatory, lowlife shithead.



I guess that's too hard...
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2013-04-09, 15:39

Different from a scam (what Addabox's Mom went through), I consider the stuff Carol went through to be run of the mill bums and losers hitting people up for money with lame sob stories. That stuff goes back way before the internet (and probably preceded the telephone too). There's a real simple cure for that Carol: don't trust strangers. The second some bozo comes up and starts talking to you like you're pals, cut them off and say "I'm not interested." Just like that. Be terse / borderline rude, without yelling. Then just keep doing whatever you're doing and go. Don't give them the opportunity to hold your attention; that's what they want. If you're walking, keep walking, if they crowd you look them in the eye and tell them to back the fuck off or you'll call the cops. They want you to "give them a few seconds" so they can gain your trust. Fuck them. If they're truly needy, there are homeless shelters and soup kitchens and places all over the place where they can get their legitimate needs (hunger, place to sleep, emergency care) met.

A scam is more like an elaborate hoax that someone conjurs up, takes the time to send emails, make bogus calls from disposable phones, etc. When caught, those are people who deserve to go to prison for a spell and think things over.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2013-04-09, 15:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept View Post
But a few weeks ago, I was jarred out of my safety zone one night when a car came zooming up to mine, turned at the very last second to avoid hitting me, and rolled down her window to speak. The driver said that she was behind on her electric bill, and asked me to come with her to Albertson's (a large grocery store) and pay her bill at the utility company payment window. I was stunned at this request, but she was incredibly insistent and said she had her daughter in the car, as if that proved she was an honest and worthy petitioner. She also had a man and woman sitting close together in the backseat. The driver kept insisting that I do what she asked, and she was so aggressive that I said to her that I was beginning to feel very uncomfortable. I almost said something about calling the police, but I just drove off in a hurry.
wtf?

I can't even imagine this scenario. A random woman pulled up next to you and asked you to pay her electric bill? I think I would've bust out laughing, taken a pic of her with my phone and posted it on Reddit (if I had an account). That's just the oddest thing I think I've ever heard as far as scammers.

I feel like I've paid my dues with beggars having lived across the street from a shelter (renovating a building in a then-distressed part of town (now it's prime property)) for the better part of a decade. I generally helped out the ones I hadn't seen before; and got to a point where the pros would start up, recognize me, and smile. Sometimes with a "Hey man!" I never felt threatened though. Maybe that's just a difference of wo/man. That sucks though. Now I can spot every tell a mile away. I don't even let them get past " " before I give them the eye and say "No." And they know I mean it. I even bristle at the Salvation Army bell-ringers at Xmas time... that'll tell you how jaded I am.

So it goes.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-09, 23:52

Leaving trivia tonight, downtown, and walking to my car...was approached by some wild-eyed guy. He didn't look full-on "hobo" (clothes weren't dirty, he was clean-shaven, etc.). He just had a scraggly mullet and "meth eyes" and all fidgety/weird-acting and carrying on like he and I were long-lost buds.

"I don't have any cash, sorry..." (and it's true, I really didn't) and a lingering "are we done here?" stare was all it took (I was taller/bulkier than he was and I try to use stuff like that to my advantage when I can...lowered, gravelly no-nonsense voice - not quite Bale Batman, but in the general ballpark - furrowed brow, try to stand as "tall and wide" as possible to do everything to send a "DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT SCREWING WITH ME BECAUSE I'LL PROBABLY JUST BITE YOUR EAR OFF AND EAT IT" aura. I'd seen him milling around during the game (we played on the outdoor patio tonight, so he was out there working the tourists in the plaza adjacent to us). He wandered over to our area but the bar manager kinda ran him off after the second time of leaning over the railing and annoying patrons/players.

Should've known he'd zero in on me later, while leaving, so I was already kinda prepared for it because I saw him milling around in the parking lot between the entrance and where I was parked. There was no way he was going to not approach me (that's what sucks on nights I play solo...I'm not walking out with 2-5 others like I do on nights I'm with my team).

He was young, wiry and amped-acting...the kind I want to keep at a distance and in full view (because he gave off a distinct "knock you in the head with a brick he'd found , take all your stuff and speed away on a shitty BMX bike" vibe). You know the type.
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-04-10, 03:20

I have a knack for attracting chancers. Maybe it’s because I look younger than I am and I have an honest earnestness around the eyes. (Though that doesn’t explain why I also get picked on by airport security.)

So I’ve heard a lot of schemes and, in the early days, fallen for a couple of minor ones. I recall giving a lorry driver a tenner once, for instance; he claimed his lorry had a puncture and he needed a cab for some important reason I forget. He insisted on taking down my address (I was staying at a nearby hostel at the time) and phone number so he could return the money, which of course he never did. It would take a hell of a lot more than a puncture to extract a tenner from me these days.

I’ve also been asked for petrol money dozens of times, usually while filling up my since-departed yellow Vespa. Guess it made me look like a likely target, but I never fell for that one.

On the other hand, I do sometimes give beggars a few coins. I don’t do this to make myself feel good, and I don’t care if they spend it on cigarettes or worse. If you’re begging in a freezing street, sitting on the ground in icy weather, you’re in a far worse situation than I am, even if you’re cynically bussed in and you have a safe place to sleep. If a cigarette or a stiff drink makes you feel marginally better, have at it. I hope you luck out and find someone to take care of you and your serious mental illness, but in the meantime I hope you make it through the day without too much misery.

Obviously petty theft and scams are wrong, but they’re minor wrongs compared to the much greater wrongs that society has dealt these poor people. I try to remember that when I’m tempted to be brusque with them. Which doesn’t mean I give them petrol money. And even if I don’t give money to 99 % of the beggars I pass on the street, I look every one of them in the eye and say hello. That costs nothing and a few of them seem to appreciate it, perhaps because so many passers-by treat them like lepers.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-10, 10:35

Reading a Dorian post is like listening to a Squeeze song...all the Chris Difford British-isms.

I don't go out of my way to be harsh with anyone (I've never told anyone to "go away" or "get a job" or whatever). But the guy last night had already worked the nerves and patience of people (saw it with my own eyes, his level of obnoxious, grating behavior), so I knew what I was in for and was in no mood to give him an "in" or falsely get his hopes up that I was going to throw him some money (which I didn't have anyway...and I doubt he took credit/debit cards).

My response is directly dictated by the tone/behavior of those approaching me. If you're aggressive, intimidating or obnoxious, I'm not inclined to be all smiley and sugar-sweet in return. Sorry, that's just how it goes. I have to watch out for myself and those with me, first and foremost. Making me a bit fearful of my safety/property isn't the way to go about it. Some people do it better than others, I guess.

Truth be told, even if I had cash on me last night I don't think I would've given him any...I saw him be a grating, aggressive and intimidating a-hole to complete strangers, families, tourists, couples, etc. for over an hour. I'd already set my mind by the time it came around to my turn...

I'm generally not inclined to subsidize someone's vices either, particularly when they've framed it all in some practiced, cynical lie. I've had people approach me saying they're hungry, and I've offered - on quite a few occasions over the years - to walk them into the convenience store where we were, or to the fast food joint next door, and buy them whatever they wanted to eat. No questions asked, no judgments, no restrictions ("You want two Big Macs? You got it..."), etc. if you're truly hungry and wanting/needing food. Naive me, thinking "someone says they're hungry, I bet a Whopper with cheese would be pretty damn good...glad I'm in a position to help this person."

Nope. Within 1-2 minutes I'm getting told where to go (and what to go do with myself when I get there) because I just don't just automatically hand over $5 so some liar can go get whatever it is he/she is really wanting.

Here's a hint: try honesty. I have given money to people who've come up and said "look, I ain't gonna lie...I just want a cold beer. Can you help me out?". I'm thinking to myself "hell, I'd like a cold beer too...I know what that's like!".

Don't appeal to my heartstrings by talking about how hungry you are and then get all jerky and argumentative (and name-calling) when I offer to put food directly in your hands. That's a dick move. Just say you want some booze or whatever. I can appreciate/respect honesty and may be a little more inclined to help with it. I don't appreciate being lied to and jerked around by people I know and love...so how do you think I respond to it from a complete stranger who's being aggressive and obnoxious about it all?

Exactly.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2013-04-10 at 10:59.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2013-04-10, 11:30

Don't listen to Dorian; he's just another bleeding heart Euro-hippy trying to fill our minds with peace and love for all. Damn you, hippy!

Here's my bottom line on the homeless and destitute: we're almost all guilty of not helping our fellow men and women in a way that would be relatively easy and not feed their vices. Think about the places where these people usually hit you up. There's almost ALWAYS a fast food joint or food stand or convenience store within 50 meters or so (I use meters so the Euro-hippies known what I'm talking about).

Here's what we should do if we actually claim to give a shit: Say "sorry man I'm not going to give you money or any of my stuff, but if you're cold and hungry I will go down to that 7-11 or MacDonalds over there in a few minutes and buy you a hamburger / hot dog, some fries / chips, and a drink and I will bring it over to that bench over there. All you have to do, is go over to that bench right now and stay there until I bring the food.

My contention is that 99.9999% of us (myself included) don't actually give a shit; we tell ourselves (and each other) we give a shit in order to feel better. And of course we all have our reasons lined up why we shouldn't give them anything. Most are valid reasons but they don't disprove my theory. A far cry from the nutjobs Carol encountered wanting her to pay a bill (they obviously are not suffering / hungry in the homeless person sense of the words and could literally drop dead for all I care), but for those who clearly are living in a heap of newspapers and cardboard and used garments in the corner of some doorway... there are things you can do for those people. In fact the best thing / way to do it, is to get the food ahead of time (normally this works best for people who pass the same homeless peopel every day), and don't wait for them to ask for it. Just walk up and set it down for them, smile and keep walking. No conversation, no nothing. Just a gesture that proves you give a shit, without getting into the whole routine.

I thought of doing this a number of times when I was working downtown, in my 20s... and I failed every time to do it. I didn't know why (back then), but now I know and the reason is I didn't give a shit. And mostly likely neither do any of you. And neither did the other 50,000 people who walked by those guys every day on the way to the train station / office buildings. And throwing a quarter in the bucket doesn't count. Can you imagine... being so freaking cold and hungry and you've pissed yourself in the night and 99% of the peopel don't even look at you... what would it feel like for some guy to just walk up and drop a fresh hot meal in your lap? No scrapping for booze coins or digging through garbage today... today he enjoys a Big Mac, salty fries and some OJ. Man. I don't know why I never did that. I should've. At least once.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2013-04-10, 12:05

A few years ago I was in Central London, near Charing Cross. My girlfriend and I were walking down an alleyway and a girl staggered out of a doorway, with a big black eye and blood running down her face from a cut on top of her head. She said that she had been beaten up by her boyfriend and just needed to get the next bus out of there. My girlfriend gave her a couple of pounds and we went on.

The next week, we were in the same alleyway, following behind a couple of other people when the same girl emerges from the same doorway, with the same black eye and the same blood drips. She starts the same story when I cut her off with "we saw you last week". She immediately drops the hysteria, says "oh well" and retreats back to her doorway to wait for the next sucker.

In the end we agreed that the two quid was worth the impromptu street performance first tine around, but we'd already seen this show and weren't about to buy another ticket.
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screensaver400
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2013-04-10, 12:10

I live in Berkeley, which seems to be both beggar and do-gooder central. Once, a man was walking around with an enormous bag of plastic bottles, going from trash can to trash can collecting them. As I get closer, a very hipster-y woman walks up to him and tries to hand him a fresh Subway sandwich and bottle of water. He makes no response and walks away. She follows and sets the items on his bag as he scrounges through a trash can for bottles. He finds a bottle, puts it in the bag, and walks off---the sandwich and full water bottle tumble away, left on the ground behind him. He never once reacted to her efforts.

I don't really have a bigpoint here, but I thought it was an interesting set of events. My only point would be that, at least in some cases, beggars have a specific thing they want (change, bottles, etc) and may reject everything else. Perhaps that's how they rationalize their activity? "My job is to recycle bottles---I don't want your food!"
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2013-04-10, 15:21

Guess I'm one of those bleeding heart euro hippies too because I don't really consider beggars to be scammers. But maybe that's because the ones I run into are usually both polite and happy to get a few coins. But then again, maybe it's because I usually give the evil eye to the ones actively seeking me out.

The absolutely worst kind of beggars in Copenhagen are those professional aid "facers" who confront you and try to make you sign up for a subscription membership for Amnesty, Greenpeace or whatever. These guys get paid DKK 100 an hour to harass and guilt people into supporting their noble cause or face their appalled expression if you deign to say no. However, it help to just prank them and tell them that you think George W. has a much better approach to human rights and such. Some of them will either go catatonic while some will launch into a wild rant about what an evil person you are. Accusing them of being human spam is also a quite effective way of humiliating them into breaking contact. It's not that I dislike humanitarian organisations, but it seems that the ones practicing this method of collection have had so much success that they have felt compelled to put vast numbers of facers on the streets.

Windswepts story about the woman in the car is pretty unusual and I don't think I've ever heard of such an incident before. It would have startled me too.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-04-10, 16:00

I consider beggars scammers if they're telling me some elaborate story to play on my sympathy/heartstrings, and then when I offer to help them with the thing they're allegedly after (food, etc.), I learn they're just after money (and that they're not hungry/starving after all...because no legitimately hungry person is going to turn down a hot, delicious, double-stacked hamburger, fries and beverage - or a box of friend chicken and potato wedges, or a foot-long Subway, or a burrito, etc. - I don't care who you are or what your angle is). Don't lie to me. That's "scamming". If you're truly hungry and going without, I'm the person you want to run into because I'd have to count on both hands and some of my toes the number of times I've done that very thing...bought someone a meal because they approached me and didn't come off their "I've not eaten and I'm very hungry" story after I offer to buy them food. When I've said "let's go over here and get something..." and they don't get all irate/offended, then I know I'm dealing with someone who is hungry and just wants something to eat. And those are the scenarios I'll never say no to. But they're few and far between.

The thing about the woman coming up and asking about the utility bill...that there was an adult couple in the backseat, with a child (her child?), that creeps me out. You do hear about those prison and drug cartel extortion rackets and schemes, where people are shaken down or threatened unless some money is paid. Maybe something like that was going on, I don't know.

Again, so many shady liars/schemers have overplayed their hand over the years that I just feel real uneasy about helping/believing anyone at this point. Because I don't want to follow my natural instincts to help and then end up with a pipe across my head for my troubles. It's hard to trust strangers. Particularly down-on-their-luck, street-savvy (and possibly desperate) strangers...

I do have to look out for myself before some random stranger on the street. And to know that there are scammers and people who abuse the trust and kindness of others, I just find it easier to turn inward in certain settings/scenarios.

I've been lucky over the years. Looking back, I've foolishly taken my wallet out in places, and around people, I probably shouldn't have, all in the interest of "helping someone out". It's a thousand wonders I wasn't jumped/mugged once I "made it so easy" for them. Heading back downtown tonight for my Wednesday game. Funny thing is...it's directly across the street from where I played last night, so I'll be parking in that same lot again. Ugh...hoping Johnny Wild Eyes has moved on to new hunting grounds.

As for scammers, I'm getting some blocked/unknown calls showing up on my phone lately, more than any other time in years. When I type the number into Google, it's almost always some sort of insurance or mortgage outfit, or a polling place. Up until about two months ago, I never got a bit of telemarketing type stuff coming through on my cell number. I hope I've not stupidly provided it somewhere (or to someone) and now it's out there floating amongst the various companies and individuals who call with "too good to be true" crap 24/7.

I pretty much consider anyone encroaching on my personal time/space, unsolicited, a scammer. If I want your products or services, it's 2013...I've got a half-dozen ways to reach you if I feel the need. Don't call my phone, fill up my inbox or my real-life mailbox with your "marketing" efforts. Don't call me, I'll call you.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2013-04-10 at 16:14.
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2013-04-10, 16:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Reading a Dorian post is like listening to a Squeeze song...all the Chris Difford British-isms.
Ha. With my “lucking out” and “guessing”, I actually thought I was doing a pretty good job of fitting in here.

I know what you mean about the aggressive types. I don’t give those the time of day. Implying that violence might occur at any moment is a disgusting approach, irrespective of your plight. And if that tactic is employed against solitary women, as in Windswept’s case, then all the more so.

Speaking of phone scams, the other day a woman called me, asked for me by name, and then enquired whether I had any gold I wished to sell. What the hell? How many people randomly sell gold to cold-callers who mysteriously know their name?
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AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2013-04-11, 06:27

I've made a small fortune that way. Really.
No, I didn't.
Umm, yes I did.


I lost 40 bucks to a shell game artist on the streets of Amsterdam at 19.

My first and last scam - good investment.

I'm a softy for the honest ones, the cold beer (just as likely crack) guys, who tell a joke or sing a few stanzas of Journey. Here I avoid the gypsy beggars because they tend to be the bussed-in/organized ones whose overlord drives a late-model Mercedes and lives in an expensive trailer with 30 other overlords trashing some piece of the countryside.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2013-04-11, 12:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I consider beggars scammers if they're telling me some elaborate story to play on my sympathy/heartstrings, and then when I offer to help them with the thing they're allegedly after (food, etc.), I learn they're just after money (and that they're not hungry/starving after all...because no legitimately hungry person is going to turn down a hot, delicious, double-stacked hamburger, fries and beverage - or a box of friend chicken and potato wedges, or a foot-long Subway, or a burrito, etc. - I don't care who you are or what your angle is). Don't lie to me.
Agree 2000%. And that's why I say it's easier when you see the same poor sod on the street every day, in the same place, huddled and cold... you know if you bring that guy a burger basket or whatever, he's going to be so happy and start eating. It works best if you observe the person a number of times and the person is just quietly sitting there, not hitting anyone up, etc. People hitting me up wouldn't get a thing unless I could look at them and see clearly they were straving, etc. But a lot of those pan handlers are not emaciated and weak looking by any stretch. They eat somewhere, somehow... so no. You're not getting shit from me.

That Berkeley story, that lady was an idiot. Some guy going around getting cans? There's no fucking WAY I'd bring him a bunch of food, much less persist if he ingored me. That's his source of income. Cans. So be it. No my problem if it amounts to $25 a week. You can survive on that if you scrimp and don't buy booze or drugs. Barely.

Lady got what she deserved. Use your frickin brain before you decide who is worth helping / who needs it, and who doesn't.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Escher
Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2013-04-11, 14:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept View Post
But a few weeks ago, I was jarred out of my safety zone one night when a car came zooming up to mine, turned at the very last second to avoid hitting me, and rolled down her window to speak.
Carol - There's a book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker that might be good for you to read. It's recommended reading by lots of government agencies whose employees may find themselves in sticky situations, e.g. Foreign Service Officers at State Department.

If a situation doesn't feel right to you, the recommended response is to "get off the X." That is, remove yourself from the situation immediately at any cost. Lock your doors, roll up your windows, and floor it! Jump the median if you have to. Being rude is a small price to pay for safety. Run the person over if your life depends on it!

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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Naderfan
Queen of Confrontation
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ohio
 
2013-04-11, 16:38

The only time I've given money to a person was at the grocery store. I had just loaded everything and was buckling my son into his car seat, when a guy came up behind me and asked if I could spare any money for bus fare. He caught me completely by surprise and I was in a really vulnerable position, half in the car fiddling with the buckles. I was so relieved that he just asked for money and didn't try to rob me (or worse) that I gave him all the spare change I had. He was an elderly man, said thank you, and then headed to the bus stop. It might have been legit, it might have been a scam, but it didn't really matter to me at that point.
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addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2013-04-11, 16:58

Some years ago when I was much poorer and younger, Southwest was running a promotion which gave discounts on airline tickets for money spent at Lucky Supermarkets (a chain long since vanished).

All they wanted were receipts, and it was an up to $200 dollar for dollar discount, so naturally as a poor young man needing to visit his parent across the country I wanted some of that sweet savings action (and of course $200 was a lot more money back then). However, I certainly didn't want to buy $200 worth of food, ever, much less just before being out of town for a couple of weeks.

So I had the great idea of walking over to the nearest Lucky and making a pitch to people as they came out of the store-- that I was trying to get a plane ticket on the cheap and their receipt could save me money, if it was all the same to them. And I got one of two responses: people either sped up without making eye contact as soon as I approached them, or stared at me with obvious suspicion and loathing and brusquely moved on. One guy hesitated long enough to study his receipt for what he assumed was some kind of exploitable information on same that I must have been fishing for, before brusquely moving on. And it wasn't like I was all snot covered or smelly or weirdly dressed anything-- I was a guy in his early 20s with a friendly, earnest demeanor.

So after that idea failed, I realized that many people just tossed their receipts on the ground and it was few minutes work to gather up enough of those from the parking lot to max out my discount.

Anyway, I doubt that I would have given myself my receipt, looking back on it. I thought my honest approach would win the day, but there's just too much "Excuse I'm not a beggar if I could have a moment of your time I'm a college student on a job interview and my car which is vaguely over there ran out of gas and I can pay you back if you would be so kind thank you" going on (even back then) for the real deal to have a chance.

Which is why I kind of hate the line of patter approach to asking for a handout: it poisons the well. There are actual people in actual unusual circumstances that need help on an ad hoc basis and must rely on the kindness of strangers, but we're all conditioned to assume it's all one big scam. Sucks.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2013-04-11, 18:17

Or as Steve would say, a big bag of suck.
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Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2013-04-11, 21:32

When I was a freshman in college, one day I decided to cross a giant boulevard and get some food from the McDonald's on the far side of the street. After risking my life against the traffic to get over there, I discovered that the state of my funds was rather dismal.

So I asked the guy at the counter if I could have fifty cents worth of french fries and thirty-five cents worth of Coke. I figured a few bites worth of fries and a swallow of Coke would be better than nothing at all. But the guy took pity on me and gave me a regular Coke and a regular bag of fries. When I held out my money, he waved it away, saying "Don't worry about it." He may have given me a small hamburger too, but I can't remember anymore. He was a nice guy and I really appreciated the food. I'm sure he didn't consider me a scammer, but I suppose a scammer *could* pull something like that, to work on someone's sympathy.
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Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2013-04-29, 17:47

Well, it has happened again. I was in a parking lot eating a cheese quesadilla from Taco Bell, when a car pulled up to mine and a man started asking me for money. He said his car had been stolen and he was trying to raise the money to get it out of the impound lot. I said, look, this happens to me all the time. I hardly have a week go by when someone doesn't come ask me for money in a shopping center parking lot. He then said that when he moved into his new apartment recently, no one had mentioned that various residents had had their cars stolen. I think he said he had a job, and he'd never had to ask people for money before, and it was embarrassing. Then, I think he said he had just gotten out of the Army.

Well, his hair was short, and he looked like he might have recently been in the Army. I guess it was when he said he had to get the car out of impound by 11:00pm or he'd have to pay another day's storage fee that I started to believe his story about his car being stolen. I reached for my wallet on the passenger seat and he jumped out of his car and held an ID folder up to my open window so I could see it if I chose to look, but I was looking through the bills I had and found a $10 that I handed him. He said I was the only person who had given him anything besides $1 dollar bills. I wished him luck and he drove away.

As I finished my quesadilla, I thought over his story and I started to convince myself that it was all true. So, I went through my bills again and pulled out $16 more dollars. I hoped he was still around in the lot somewhere. I found the car he had borrowed from a friend, and noticed an "Army of One" and "Go Army" bumperstickers on the trunk.

Then I saw him talking to a guy who was loading groceries into a car, and I drove up and held out the money. When he took it, he said, oh, I'm getting close. I think he needed $75 altogether, but I'm not sure. I wish he had told me how much more he needed, because I probably would have given it to him right then, if I'd had enough.

I went home for a while, and then decided to go back and see if he still needed money to get his car. I would have had to get my sack of mail out of my car, find and activate the new debit card I had just received so I could get cash out of an ATM. But I didn't see him anywhere. I think he may have gotten the money he needed from that guy unloading groceries.

The more I thought about his being a soldier just out of the Army, the worse I felt. That he would just be trying to start civilian life again, and to have his car stolen in the very first few days was awful. So, I hope he got his car out of impound. I hope it wasn't damaged.

I wish I could have believed him right away and not felt skeptical based on my past experiences. I really don't think this was a scam at all; though, unfortunately, it took me a while to arrive at that conclusion. Poor guy. I'm glad he had a friend who let him borrow the car.

Just wondering if anyone else would have believed him a lot faster than I did? If he had just started a new job, he wouldn't get paid for two weeks, probably. And he may have spent any extra money making security deposits and paying first and last months' rent on the apartment. He may have had enough money to buy food until he was paid, but not enough to pay $75 on an impound fee.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2013-04-29, 18:24

Wasn't the fact that he pulled up in his car somewhat give away that maybe his car wasn't impounded, and he was, in fact, sitting in it?

I don't believe it for a minute. "Normal" people who get in these situations don't approach strangers in Mall parking lots. It's just not a thing that you do.
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Naderfan
Queen of Confrontation
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ohio
 
2013-04-29, 18:46

How to tell a scam

I stumbled across this blog and thought it might be helpful. And yeah, I think the impound guy was probably a scam too. If he had a friend who could let him use his car, why wouldn't that friend lend him the $75, especially since the guy could then pay him back? Sorry Windswept, I think you may have been had.

Last edited by Naderfan : 2013-04-29 at 21:09.
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