[billybobsky]

Oxford Uni suck. It is definitely a culture thing, in this case a University of Oxford thing. The level of asshatery that passes for everyday actions is simply astounding. It appears to be driven by an incredible inferiority complex tied with the belief that Oxford is, well OXFORD. It isn't. And it probably hasn't been for quite some time. Don't get me wrong, I make no distinction between Oxford and that other Oxbridge partner. They simply do not do academic *anything* right. They have been coasting on the fumes of their reputation for far too long. Attracting amazing students and postdocs, and fucking them in the head like no ones business. It won't end, but that doesn't mean it should continue.

Anyway.

England's alright. There are some dubious construction practices that make me nervous everytime I enter a building or walk next to a building or am involved with activities within 50 yards of buildings. But other than my complete and total security being in danger everytime I open a door or turn on a light, this are ok. But seriously, how does a research building less than 7 years old have cracks in support pillars large enough to fit your hand into. I am beginning to suspect that the ruins of castles, palaces and churches aren't actually that old, its just that building practices being what they are here, every once in a while a building collapses becoming a new ruin. Happy Day! Tourist MONEY!

[pscates2.0]

What, specifically, is it about the Oxford asshattery that gets to you? Examples?

I mean, I can sorta almost imagine. But I wanna hear it anyway (just to confirm I'm right).

Is the snobbery/elitism through the roof or something? Is it clique-ish type of setting where certain people just aren't going to get into the swing of it all no matter what?

How much longer are you there? How long have you been there?

Despite all this, are there good, enjoyable things? Or is the entire experience a complete wash-out?

That's tough to imagine, going so far - and not to some fourth-world turdhole where you'd expect to be miserable 92% of the time - and being too unhappy.

Details. Give 'em.

[Bryson]

Buildings: well, the contract goes to whichever contractor demonstrated "Best Value" which is British Government code for "cheap as shit."

Older buildings (particularly Victorian ones) are where you want to be. They built them to last.

Interesting to hear about Oxford being a shitshow though. I have long suspected it, but didn't really know anyone that worked there.

[pscates2.0]

Exactly. You get what you pay for. In some cases - a flyswatter or refrigerator magnet - the stakes aren't all that high and it doesn't matter too much. When you get into big, heavy steel and concrete structures more than 5-6 feet high (with people actually living and working inside them), going with the absolute low-ball bid might not always be the best approach.

[Moogs]

This thread intrigues me. More on Oxford please.

Perhaps you should attend Khan University.

[Kickaha]

Funny, I just elected not to apply for a position at Oxford for some of the asshattery/craziness reasons you cited.

Which is too bad, I'm pretty sure I would have been a shoe-in with my awesome facial hair.

[Moogs]

Do you still look like Chuck Norris? I don't think they can handle that kind of intensity at Oxford. Especially if there is an asshattery problem.

[pscates2.0]

He looks like Chuck Norris ate Billy Gibbons.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Moogs Do you still look like Chuck Norris? I don't think they can handle that kind of intensity at Oxford. Especially if there is an asshattery problem.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by billybobsky 1) The level of asshatery that passes for everyday actions is simply astounding. It appears to be driven by an incredible inferiority complex tied with the belief that Oxford is, well OXFORD. 2) They simply do not do academic *anything* right. They have been coasting on the fumes of their reputation for far too long. 3) Attracting amazing students and postdocs, and fucking them in the head like no ones business.

These are pretty specific accusations. As evidenced by the comments of other members quoted below, I think quite a few of us are really interested in *examples* of the three things above. Please, kindly tell us what *specifically* you are talking about regarding the three areas mentioned. After all, we assume you did start this thread for the purpose of talking about those things, right?

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 What, specifically, is it about the Oxford asshattery that gets to you? Examples? I mean, I can sorta almost imagine. But I wanna hear it anyway (just to confirm I'm right). Is the snobbery/elitism through the roof or something? Is it clique-ish type of setting where certain people just aren't going to get into the swing of it all no matter what? How much longer are you there? How long have you been there? Despite all this, are there good, enjoyable things? Or is the entire experience a complete wash-out? That's tough to imagine, going so far - and not to some fourth-world turdhole where you'd expect to be miserable 92% of the time - and being too unhappy. Details. Give 'em.

Originally Posted by Moogs This thread intrigues me. More on Oxford please.

For those of us on this side of the Atlantic, Oxford certainly has long had an educational 'mystique'. We assume, in our innocence, that the 'system' there must be a good one. But, from what you are saying, just the opposite appears to be true. Therefore, you can see that we are extremely curious to get the truth from someone we know, from someone who has no reason to varnish the truth and tidy up the facts as they exist in reality.

If you are hesitant to be more specific for some reason, then just tell us so. If there might be negative fallout from your comments, then we would understand your reluctance to expand on the little you have already said.

President Clinton went to Oxford for a while, didn't he? What subject did he study? History? Was his course for a master's degree, or what? I just can't remember. And... did you get to see the torch when it came by your house?

I spent an afternoon in Oxford once after touring through Blenheim Palace. Spent some time in a local pub, but didn't really see much of anything of the town or university. It was just a day-trip from London, and I went there because I missed the train to Stratford-on-Avon. I missed the train because no one I asked for directions spoke any version of English that I could understand! ( Especially the two guys from Liverpool or somewhere up north. )

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 What, specifically, is it about the Oxford asshattery that gets to you? Examples?

Sorry for the delay its been busy here...

Hm... Where to begin?

Academic science can be a petty field, but it is distinctly more petty here. The chemistry department is separated into three divisions. They don't cross-collaborate. They barely even talk to each other. The problem is much more deep than this. Oxford and Cambridge, both, have a tendency of believing that they train the world's best ..., and subsequently higher most of their professors from people trained here. This results in an self-feeding incestuous propagation of the scientific culture. So when a sociopathic asshole boss came up through their system, they are intrinsically more interested in saving face than dealing with the fact that they :
1) insist that people don't take holidays even though they are contractually given them
2) give away dissertation projects to other people in the lab for petty personal reasons thereby ruining the chance for a graduate student to actually get a dphil
3) use university formal proceedings as a way to bully and harass employees, an action allowed by the university since they don't care to go after one of their own
4) regularly abuse their authority to insist that something (say replacing a standard non-opening window with a (fire hazard) opening window in an office because they are 'too hot to think') happen immediately
5) prevent postdocs or graduate students from publishing or presenting their work because they want an unrelated experiment performed, or they believe that even though the results are good worthy, the student/postdoc didn't work hard enough to get them, or they don't fit into some sort of scientific chess game at play in their head or...

and on and on and on.

It is just an extreme form of academic elitism which holds that only those trained within this silly university are worth a damn. And let me tell you: the academic training for undergraduate chemistry at least is miles better at even some of the more questionable academic departments in the US. But they don't have the name so...

I have been at oxford for almost six months -- I am trying to leave because a postdoc in a lab that is doing questionable science and without a decent or good chance of either getting a publication or at the very least a recommendation letter is not a postdoc worth having. I've been playing this science game for 18 years. The only way to win this sort of game is not to play.

Despite all this, are there good, enjoyable things? Or is the entire experience a complete wash-out?

The lab personnel are incredible. I like all of them, which is remarkable in a nearly 50 person group. Postdocs are fleeing though (myself included). Oxford's a weird dichotomy of interesting historical-looking architecture and English awfulness. Some of the worst aspect of US culture are paraded around here. Obese homeless panhandlers munching on McDonalds, while women in too short skirts and too tall shoes totter drunkenly towards the next bar. That's not only on the weekend mind you -- that's every fucking day. My new neighborhood is a sad case in point -- it is mostly a segregated muslim community (and I don't mean new immigrants, there are third and forth generation Brits who've wound up as a somewhat permanent underclass). It has been pointed out that you can tell a person's social class by the way they look here (not their clothes, their faces). Social mobility in any direction seems to be retarded.

All told, the people in the lab excluding the boss are great, the food is bland but options exist for escaping that, the weather is awful with a capital awful, and it's not something that I will look back upon and think of as a particularly distinguishing time in my life. I lived in Oxford. BFD.

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by Windswept President Clinton went to Oxford for a while, didn't he? What subject did he study? History? Was his course for a master's degree, or what? I just can't remember. And... did you get to see the torch when it came by your house? I spent an afternoon in Oxford once after touring through Blenheim Palace. Spent some time in a local pub, but didn't really see much of anything of the town or university. It was just a day-trip from London, and I went there because I missed the train to Stratford-on-Avon. I missed the train because no one I asked for directions spoke any version of English that I could understand! ( Especially the two guys from Liverpool or somewhere up north. )

Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar getting a masters in Political Science. There are two types of Rhodes Scholars: the PoliSci ones which are like Clinton still -- arrogant, brash, self-assured, and the non-polisci ones -- quite hard working academics.

I actually lived right outside of Blenheim for five months before recently moving. Woodstock is an interesting quite area pretty removed from Oxford proper.

I wasn't able to see the torch pass by since... well the fact that the boss was insisting people work.