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Will the Nintendo DS fail? I think it will.


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Will the Nintendo DS fail? I think it will.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2004-11-27, 00:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly
Um... ok. Objectivity isn't one of your strong suits, is it? Also, you're not really paying attention to what I'm saying. I'm saying that the N64 was in a better position than the PSX was when it came out. And it was. Your apparent bias against Mario 64 notwithstanding, that game was a system seller. You don't have to like it for it to still be a fact you know.
Aside from heritage, why was the N64 in a better position? It was late, more expensive, the games were more expensive and used drastic image compression..

Quote:
Actually, I didn't say anything about Saturn. You did. My point was that the N64 was positioned better than the PSX was when it hit the scene. Better graphics, better market share, better launch titles (whether you liked Mario 64 or not is irrelevant), and an actual history in the console market. It really has nothing to do with the Saturn.
Can you even name another launch title besides Super Mario 64?

*You* don't have to mention Saturn, but that doesn't make it any less integral to the late 90s video game console wars. Sega's demise at the hand of Sony is completely relevant to DS vs PSP. I mentioned on the forums.appleinsider that the DS is hedged bet. It doesn't carry the Game Boy name because Nintendo is afraid to link it with a failure. I think Nintendo has a Game Boy handheld ready to intro for a Christmas 2005 release just in case.

Quote:
According to who? You? The hundreds of thousands of people who bought N64s when it was released would seem to disagree with you.
Hundreds of thousands more disagree even further.

Quote:
Oh no, you're not biased at all. Once again, graphics are not what determine the success of a given game system. That has been proven over and over and over and over again. If you choose to disregard the overwhelming evidence to support that, then that's really your problem.
If graphics was my only point, then sure, but the point is this... Nintendo is resorting to mimicking its old Game & Watch handhelds because it's grasping at straws, and not because having two separate screens is innovative.

Quote:
Ah yes, resorting to name calling when you can't win an argument. Classic. You did say something about the N64 and a ten foot pole, care to refresh my memory on that? And while you're at it, explain how that comment makes you "not biased".
Name calling? I asked if you were thick. That's an adjective. No, I'm not biased. As an old-school Nintendo fan, I'm telling it like it is. Are you calling me a Sony fan? You can ask anybody what I think of Sony...especially its industrial design.

Quote:
Oh yes, that's quite obvious based on your feelings about the N64. Like yourselves, most true Nintendo fans actually prefer to shit on N64 consoles rather than play games on them. You know, because that's what REAL Nintendo fans do.
Real Nintendo fans won't beat around the bush when it comes to explaining why Sony ran away with the video game industry in 1995.

Quote:
Yes, which clearly makes you the biggest Nintendo fan ever. Obviously I was wrong to ever assume that you were anything but the biggest Nintendo fan this world has ever seen, despite your total willingness to use the N64 as toilet paper. How could I have been so blind?
I'm a BMW owner and fan who hates the Chris Bangle era cars as well. I imagine you that's also hard for you to understand as well.

Quote:
Oh, I have a better idea. How about I ask you what that has to do with my original premise that the N64 had more going for it than the PSX did at launch, and that graphics do not make the system? Or hey, we could just keep going off on unrelated tangents, that works too.
Considering the PS flew off the shelves from the start, I fail to see how the N64 had more going for it. As I already stated, the PlayStation won the war before the N64 even made it to store shelves. What were the original N64 cartridges, 32-64 MB? Games like Psygnosis' Colony Wars for PS used multiple CDs. But what about Mario 64!? Um, Tekken, Ridge Racer, Wipeout, etc. I don't think any N64 racing game looked as good as Ridge Racer, a first generation title. You simply couldn't wedge that all the textures onto a game cartridge. Maybe N64's saving graces are its intangibles, eh?
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2004-11-27, 01:16

Platform wars always result from discussions of a new VGS.
Anyway. I've decided to go for the new Paper Mario game and wait for more games to come out on the DS. I agree with the fact that Nintendo has "milked" their consumers; releasing stuff in dribs and drabs. A Pokemon special system here, a slightly different version of another Pokemon game there... confusing different things.... I'm just in it for the Mario games.

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
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Barto
Student extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
 
2004-11-27, 01:28

I couldn't give a rat's arse if the PSX beat the N64 in market share, if some net nerd claims the platform sucked, or if a couple of kiddies can't grow up and GET THE HELL OVER IT.


The sky was deep black; Jesus still loved me. I started down the alley, wailing in a ragged bass.
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Akumulator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2004-11-27, 01:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barto
I couldn't give a rat's arse if the PSX beat the N64 in market share, if some net nerd claims the platform sucked, or if a couple of kiddies can't grow up and GET THE HELL OVER IT.
Yep, you're right...

Meanwhile....The Nintendo DS will not fail, nor will the PSP. They're both different beasts. One is high end and will cost more while the other is more affordable and will still market a different audience. I think that as long as Nintendo can compete with Sony on the console market, they will have no problem competing on the portable market. There are enough people playing video games that they'll both win in the end.

Get over the PS vs. N64 shit and get back on topic assholes.
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Paul
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2004-11-27, 02:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumulator
Get over the PS vs. N64 shit and get back on topic assholes.
Bashing Microsoft?
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usurp
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-11-27, 07:58

btw, N64 didnt really have better graphics then the PS1. It depends on how you look at it. Cartoon like graphics looked better on the N64 but PS1 graphics looked more realistic because it could display more detailed textures or something. the N64 the textures were always blurry while the ps1 were more detailed.

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Xaqtly
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-11-27, 15:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Aside from heritage, why was the N64 in a better position? It was late, more expensive, the games were more expensive and used drastic image compression..


Can you even name another launch title besides Super Mario 64?
I explained why the N64 was in a better position at least three separate times now. I get the feeling you're just ignoring it. Better graphics, the N64 was a more powerful system, faster load times, market share, Nintendo's history in the console market, franchises like Zelda and Mario, etc. etc. These are all things that could not be said about the PSX. If you were here in the US when the PSX was released then you should be able to recall the trepidation surrounding this new console from first-time console maker Sony, who had no experience in the console market or with games at all, who had no brilliant first party software like Nintendo did, and who was generally seen as "the company that makes Walkmans".

Now judging from how you've reacted to my other posts on this subject, I feel like I need to clarify something here before you respond. This is an objective view of the situation. I have no stake in making Nintendo and the N64 look better in hindsight, nor do I have anything against Sony and the PSX. If you'll recall, I did already mention I bought a PSX back then too, and I liked it a lot. But the fact is, Sony was an unknown quantity when the PSX was released. Nobody knew how it would do, and not only did the PSX not measure up to the N64 in terms of stats, but Sony had no reputation in the console market, and Nintendo did.

As far as "drastic image compression", that's only for FMV, not in-game graphics. For launch titles, there was Mario 64, Pilotwings 64 and Wave Race 64, all good games. Those were followed shortly with Cruisin' USA, Killer Instinct Gold, Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire, Blast Corps and Turok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
*You* don't have to mention Saturn, but that doesn't make it any less integral to the late 90s video game console wars.
And yet it still has nothing to do with my original point. My point involves the perception and stats of the N64 vs. the perception and stats of the PSX at launch - nothing else. I mean come on, how many times have I told you this already? And the only reason I even mentioned it in the first place is because somebody here was assuming the PSP would beat out the DS because it looks better. The N64 looked better than the PSX at launch, and look what happened there. THAT is my point. So can you please get off the Sega bandwagon now?[/quote]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
It doesn't carry the Game Boy name because Nintendo is afraid to link it with a failure. I think Nintendo has a Game Boy handheld ready to intro for a Christmas 2005 release just in case.
Are you wearing a tin foil hat too? Out of curiosity, what are your sources regarding your belief that Nintendo is "afraid" to put the Game Boy name on the DS? You're offering it as fact, but I really doubt that. If it is based in fact, let's hear it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Hundreds of thousands more disagree even further.
Not at launch they didn't. That's what this is about, remember?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
If graphics was my only point, then sure
Ah, you can stop right there. That was EXACTLY the point. Usurp was making predictions on how the DS will do based on how the graphics look on the DS and on the PSP. Now do you get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Name calling? I asked if you were thick. That's an adjective. No, I'm not biased. As an old-school Nintendo fan, I'm telling it like it is. Are you calling me a Sony fan? You can ask anybody what I think of Sony...especially its industrial design.
Haha, where to start with this one? Ok, asking me if I'm thick then saying it's not name calling is splitting hairs. It was intended as an insult, was it not? So ask yourself if insulting me is really necessary or conducive to this argument and get back to me. I find it hard to believe that somebody like you with the sheer amount of hate you have for the N64 can honestly say you have no bias one way or the other. And as an old-school Nintendo fan myself, I have to ask what makes you think your opinion is more valid than mine... especially since I don't seem to share your "issues" with the N64. And no, I'm not calling you a Sony fan. If I were, it would have looked something like this: "You're a Sony fan." You seem to like jumping to conclusions about people, you might want to cut down on that a little bit. And for being so allegedly non-biased, you sure do seem to hate a lot of things. If that's your idea of not being biased, I'm not sure I'd like to see your idea of what bias is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Real Nintendo fans won't beat around the bush when it comes to explaining why Sony ran away with the video game industry in 1995.
And I guess you should know, seeing as how you're a bigger Nintendo fan than everybody else on this board combined, right? So I guess that means that whatever you think, no matter what it is, is automatically "what a real Nintendo fan" would think. Right? By the way, just for giggles, I want you to quantify that. Prove that you're a bigger Nintendo fan than everybody else on this board combined. I just think statements of grandeur like that need to be backed up with more than just "because I said so". Get back to me on that. But aside from that, Sony didn't run away with anything in 1995. The PSX didn't get hugely popular until later. I think your complete dislike of the N64 is blinding you to the facts, there, Mr. I'm not biased at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
I'm a BMW owner and fan who hates the Chris Bangle era cars as well. I imagine you that's also hard for you to understand as well.
Well of course it would be, because only a real Nintendo fan would be able to comprehend concepts of such mind-numbing complexity. And apparently we've already established the fact that I'm not a real Nintendo fan, nor do I know anything about cars. Actually, refresh my memory - how did you come to that conclusion again? While you're at it, why don't you tell me how many BMWs I've owned and which models they were, because you obviously know enough about the subject to speak authoritatively on it. Right? Unless of course you're talking directly out of your ass again. But that's unpossible! You're the biggest Nintendo fan the world has ever known!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Considering the PS flew off the shelves from the start, I fail to see how the N64 had more going for it.
Well of course you do. You don't like the N64, remember? Therefore you fail to see any of its positive attributes. That's not really surprising, I don't really expect you to be open-minded about something you have expressed sincere and genuine dislike for. But since you're a bigger Nintendo fan than everybody else combined, you also think you can't be wrong about anything, so you see the conundrum there? As long as you're convinced you know more about the N64 than anybody else while at the same time saying you hate it and won't even get near one, there's not a lot I can do.

And really, if you would just take the time to do some research you would see what I'm talking about. Sony sold 100,000 PSXs over their first weekend - Nintendo sold over 350,000 N64s in the first two days, breaking all video game console launch records. The N64 was NOT more expensive than the PSX, they both cost $199.99. N64 sales, both hardware and software, easily surpassed *total* PSX sales, and this is despite the fact that the PSX had already been on the market for a year. It wasn't until LATER that the PSX came back to significantly outsell the N64. In fact it wasn't until Sept. 1997 that the PSX finally started outselling the N64. And just in case you're confused, these are all numbers from the US - NOT Japan.

Maybe you don't remember, possibly because of the hugeness of your love for Nintendo or something, but there was a SHORTAGE of N64s during the first week of their availability. It was actually hard to find them. But then I guess you wouldn't know, because you wouldn't touch the N64 with a ten foot pole, right? Which makes me wonder why you consider yourself any kind of authority on the subject. So do yourself a favor and go to google and look up some FACTS before you respond to this post.

Oh, and usurp - The N64 could do antialiasing and the PSX couldn't. Unfortunately some developers overused the antialiasing and their games looked blurry. But all the bigger games didn't have that problem, and all the PSX games looked blocky by comparison.
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murbot
Hoonigan
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2004-11-27, 16:12

Holy shit dude, it's Saturday. Go outside or something.
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Xaqtly
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-11-27, 18:24

I could say something about how you probably had to be inside on a computer in order to first read my post and then respond to it, but I won't.
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murbot
Hoonigan
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2004-11-27, 19:38

... or that I have 2 kids napping and can't exactly leave them in the house alone.

I'm guessing you have nothing keeping you inside the house except your fear of the sun.



BTW, I didn't read your post. I made the mistake of scrolling down instead of paging down too... 30 seconds of my life I won't get back.
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Xaqtly
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-11-27, 20:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by murbot

I'm guessing you have nothing keeping you inside the house except your fear of the sun.
And I'm guessing you lose a lot when you go to Vegas, haha.
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rampancy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick
 
2004-11-27, 21:38

I remember Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire...it was supposed to be part of this big multi-pronged Star Wars media blitz that included toys, books, comics...I never fully got it, since they never did a movie or an episodic TV show or anything traditionally linked to the Star Wars franchise.

Wasn't Shadows of the Empire supposed to be for the N64 what Halo was supposed to be for the Xbox? The console's "killer app"? I remember that it was really, really hyped, but more than a few people weren't all that impressed by it.

"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice."
- Mahatma Gandhi
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usurp
High Monarch of MacDebate
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kuwait
 
2004-11-28, 00:35

I Love this thread.

I was just reading the nintendo DS review at joystiq
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000870021670/

according to the reviewer, the device is heavy and doesnt fit into any pocket plus the stylus is already putting marks on his screen. the big and heavy part is the suprising thing. i figured the device would be small, but now i am thinking this product is not aimed for young ones. not like the gameboy was atleast. i mean the reviewer talks about how he cant play the DS unless he puts his elbows somewhere. what will a young kid do?

Now the fact that its called a Nintendo DS and not a GameBoy DS is interesting. Maybe Nintendo is not 100% confident with the system and thus decided not to use the GameBOy name so that it does not tarnish it.

Maybe they are worried the DS will end up like the VirtualBoy. Unpractical and not portable.

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usurp
High Monarch of MacDebate
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-04-14, 02:19

just an update to this thread. the DS WILL fail. I just got the PSP and after playing around with the DS last week, oh my god DS sucks soo bad!

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Wrao
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2005-04-14, 02:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by usurp
now i am thinking this product is not aimed for young ones.
Neither is the PSP really. Both systems are too expensive for kids, the DS is far better priced and since it supports all the old GBA games as well as having cheaper games in general, it will likely be an easier sell by kids from their parents, but even then, I think that it's silly to have a portable game system over $99 anyway. This whole high end portable game market just seems kinda dumb. *shrug*
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usurp
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2005-04-14, 03:19

its better priced yeah, but thats because the technology it uses is very basic. the psp costs more but you ARE getting much more.
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alcimedes
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2005-04-14, 07:53

i think the DS is a placeholder to take sales away from the PSP while Nintendo scrambles to get a real competitor out the door.

But honestly, I'd take a GBA over the PSP or DS any day of the week.

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Bryson
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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2005-04-14, 08:56

I have to say the DS looks both cheap and gimmicky to me. PSP will rightfully kick it's ass all the way back home. Even Nintendo's legendary "gameplay" adavantage is waning now.
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Bones3D
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2005-04-14, 12:32

The DS is certainly in trouble if it's line-up doesn't get a lot more games soon. As it is, the PSP had more good games at lauch than the DS has had in its first 4 months on store shelves.

Personally, I'd like to see the GBA get PSP level 3D capabilities without losing its current form factor. The DS is just too hard on the hands after so long.

I really hope Nintendo does better with Revolution than it has with the DS so far... otherwise they could end up going the way of Sega.

8==8 Bones 8==8
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Wrao
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2005-04-14, 13:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
But honestly, I'd take a GBA over the PSP or DS any day of the week.
Exactly. I don't want to spend over $300 on a fancy toy that I'm only going to use when I'm traveling. the GBA is the pinnacle of portable gaming, the high end systems are just silly.
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Wrao
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2005-04-14, 13:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones3D
Personally, I'd like to see the GBA get PSP level 3D capabilities without losing its current form factor. The DS is just too hard on the hands after so long.]
The GBA is actually a really powerful system all said and done, it lacks 3d graphics, but other than that, it's on par with the best 2d consoles ever made. I personally don't care for a portable system to have 3d graphics, it only works if the screen is big(like the PSP) and if the screen is that big, it hurts portability.

Personally, I'd like to see wireless networking added to the GBA. The only problem is, while both the DS and the PSP aren't really supposed to be competing with the GBA, their presence might hurt GBA popularity, which is lame because it's such a great system.
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usurp
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2005-04-14, 13:21

i love the GBA! I actually got it for 2 games, Metroid and Castlevania. These 2 games should stay as 2D. Nothing could ever beat them. Metroid on the GBA kicks psps and xboxs ass combined. Sadly the Metroid on the DS is in crappy 3D.

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Wrao
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2005-04-14, 13:36

Well that's a debate for another thread, I personally really liked Metroid Prime, as much as I liked Super metroid.

That said, there are some games that do thrive in the 2d environment, additionally, simpler 2d games can be and are just as fun as the most complicated and visually stunning 3d games. This is what matters, I think the GBA did everything right, I really hope it doesn't get thrown around by these high end systems stepping into the arena.

On the subject of nintendo releasing a better DS. While I don't really think it will happen, it's definitely possible. The First GBA was an amazing system, but the lack of the backlight pretty much killed it for many people. The GBA SP is everything GBA should have been on it's first announcement. It would be interesting if nintendo released an updated DS that fixed any nagging issues and improved the system all around. I still probably wouldn't care though
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Mass Appeal
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2005-04-14, 13:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao
Exactly. I don't want to spend over $300 on a fancy toy that I'm only going to use when I'm traveling. the GBA is the pinnacle of portable gaming, the high end systems are just silly.
Are you a hermit Wrao? Do you really never find yourself away from home and wanting gaming fix. I would consider myself a home body yet I use my PSP everyday between classes or as a study break. I've actually gotten more work done recently because I spend a longer amount of time in the library. The PSP provides a nice break when I get tired of school work, instead of leaving and heading home I can just go out side and immerse myself in Lumines for a half hour.

What's so silly about a portable with Playstation level graphics? I love my GBA but it's had it's run and I'm glad that something new has come along. It is also a fairly significant jump up from the GBA which is something that the home console arena will have to address later this year. I like for any expensive tech investment to be noticeable step up from what I was using previously and the PSP is it.

While I agree that the GBASP has the best form factor for portable gaming I rarely leave my house without a backpack or my laptop bag and I would guess for the PSP's target market I'm not alone. I don't think that the PSP's inability to fit easily in the average pocket should be a strike against it. I love the large screen and it fits nicely in my hands for long periods without discomfort.
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Wrao
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2005-04-14, 14:07

Sure, it'll work fine for some people, but I really don't think there is going to be a particularly big market for this. DS and PSP are too expensive, the games are too expensive, and they are both too fancy imo. That's just soo much money to be dropping on a portable gaming system, I don't think any amount of fun factor could offset that for me, additionally I don't think parents are going to be too thrilled to get these for their kids, so already nintendo and sony are kinda alienating what would otherwise be a huge market. Maybe I'm wrong, if you build it they will come and all that, consumers never fail to spend a lot of money on things they don't need, in which case, I think the PSP will take market dominance over the DS.

Yes I am a hermit I'm not going to school at the moment so it's not like I have that venue to game between studying. Heh, I don't even know why I'm in this debate, I barely even game at all these days, I'm playing Mario 64 on my Nintendo 64 and that's more than enough for me!

Regarding 3d graphics on a small system... I haven't played the PSP yet, and I'm sure the big screen makes a difference, but on the DS, I didn't like playing Mario 64, not because it was hard to control or anything, I just didn't like having to navigate through a 3d environment in the palm of my hand, Mario 64 has pretty simplistic textures too, I'd hate to think what it'd be like to play a more complicated and detailed game, even on the big PSP screen.

That said, I think portable 3d racing games over a network is an awesome thing that should be exploited.
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abraham
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Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-04-14, 14:18

Nintendo Games> Playstation Games
I buy a system for good games, technical features don't really matter... in my opinion
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Zodiac
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Beer Store
 
2005-04-14, 15:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
Nintendo Games> Playstation Games
I buy a system for good games, technical features don't really matter... in my opinion
Well, not everyone thinks that nintendos games are all that great.

I played a DS at my local game store. Meh, it was alright. The PSP just seems so much better for me. I really hate the DS's controls. And there is absolutely no room to write in on the chat, so you basically HAVE to to the incredibly slow typing feature thing-a-ma-bob.

Founder of the Applenova Folding Team
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abraham
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-04-14, 15:27

I think the PSP is a really good gaming system and Sony will have an excellent future in it. But I do believe that it is trying to be a jack of all trades, however, it becomes a master of none (except gaming). I don't need to play music (I have an Ipod). I don't need to watch SpiderMan 2 on it (I have a laptop). I just wish Sony had made an option to make the PSP a bit more simple. Maybe it would be nice to have some BTO options, you know? I would rather not pay for something I am never going to use...

Radiohead!!!
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.Hack
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2005-04-14, 18:07

One thing we all have to remember is that the NintendoDS isn't necessarily the new Gameboy, even though it can play GBA games. I personally feel like the DS is only an experiment that Nintendo is conducting. I think that we haven't even come close to seeing Nintendo's plans either, as far as hand-held gaming goes. Another hypothesis of mine is that Nintendo has yet to produce a successor to the GameboySP, and that a new GB will come out in the near future. I also favor the PSP, there are so many features that appeal to the general populous... but I'm going to wait and see before I buy. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be significant updates on these two systems soon as well, so I'll tough it out.
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Mass Appeal
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2005-04-14, 18:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
I think the PSP is a really good gaming system and Sony will have an excellent future in it. But I do believe that it is trying to be a jack of all trades, however, it becomes a master of none (except gaming). I don't need to play music (I have an Ipod). I don't need to watch SpiderMan 2 on it (I have a laptop). I just wish Sony had made an option to make the PSP a bit more simple. Maybe it would be nice to have some BTO options, you know? I would rather not pay for something I am never going to use...
I don't think the PSP's extra features drove any of the unit's design. For music, photo, and movie playback from the memory card all that was required was the firm ware. The only simplicity we'd get from removing those features would be more built in data storage instead of a removable card for game saves. How much of an effect do think this would have on the PSP's price point?

Memory cards with up to 2 gigs of storage could allow for some cool hackery. Entire games could be placed on one of those suckers not to mention the emulation scene that's bound to develop.
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