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Mac Pro - 2011 and beyond


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Mac Pro - 2011 and beyond
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Jason
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2012-06-07, 23:48

Looking forward to seeing the specs On these new machines. In addition to the reasons given above, I think some people like Mac Pros because they don't then feel the urge or need to upgrade every two years.
 
Ryan
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2012-06-08, 00:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
a) need 3rd party monitors to get accurate color
That was the other reason we had Mac Pros. All the designers' displays were fully calibrated as we did a fair amount of print work on all sorts of mediums. Mine weren't since I only worked web, nor did I have anywhere near as nice a setup.
 
nikstar101
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2012-06-08, 02:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Sorry I couldn't resist. Seemed rhetorical.

The most simplified answer to who is people that:

a) need 3rd party monitors to get accurate color
b) need 3-4 HD in their machine (scratch disks, etc)
c) need 10+GB of RAM (Photoshop, AE, 3D, etc)
d) upgradable GPUs (Call of Duty! )
e) slots for PCI cards (video / audio processing most common)

f) want to look down on the rest of you mortals. (I kid)
Rational Nick says he buys a Mac Pro for points (a) and (b) but really it's for (d) and (f)
 
Matsu
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2012-06-08, 07:54

I think that B and C are not really issues any longer. iMac's can handle 32GB with current modules, even MBP's can accept 16GB, though a bit pricey to do. And between thunderbolt and USB3 it can argued that external storage solutions might actually be a better practice for pro use.

.........................................
 
Jason
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2012-06-08, 08:36

I wonder what the Graphics Card options will be?
Haven't a clue what's readily available now. I'm assuming we've moved on from the Radeon HD5870?
 
Moogs
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2012-06-08, 09:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I wonder what the Graphics Card options will be?
Haven't a clue what's readily available now. I'm assuming we've moved on from the Radeon HD5870?
I don't know but hoping the best all-purpose card currently on the market. My guess is a choice between the Radeon 7950, one of the lower 7000 series.

That's always the problem with these OEM cards. The manufacturer makes one set of drivers for one or two cards, which means you can't throw in their newest card in 6 months and expect it will work. You have to wait a year usually for a new card and driver to be released for Mac. I think I read somewhere that Apple had gotten really fed up with this practice and was switching to one company or the other for all GPUs. And I think it was a switch to AMD / Radeon. I can't recall for sure but seems like Nvidia had made plans to write Mac drivers for some of their hyper-fast GPUs with CUDA and all that stuff, and they balked after a time / skipped it... writing drivers for only a single card (the Quadro 4000).

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
PB PM
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2012-06-08, 13:24

There was a rumor a while ago that Apple was going to switch back to Nvidia for this upcoming generation of machines. It seems like Apple switches back and forth every other generation.
 
Moogs
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2012-06-08, 16:47

Yah I could be mistaken... it's hard to know what the hell is going on because Apple rarely comments substantively on these things. We'll find out soon enough. I don't care which company; I just want a good card with excellent CUDA / OpenCL support (one or the other) and better than avg gaming performance. IOW a card that will give me the power I need for at least 18 months or so before i have to go in search of a new card (boxed product).

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Matsu
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2012-06-09, 13:38

A while back Macworld benchmarked an SSD iMac i7 as slightly faster than an (older) HDD Mac Pro. Naturally disk bound processes enjoyed an advantage on the iMac - I don't think processor bound tasks would shake down the same. Assuming I could afford any Mac Pro (not really) it would certainly be a single CPU machine. How do those CPUs stack up? Maybe a used Mac Pro makes sense compared to a new iMac? Right now used Mac Pro's are a little on the high side, but new machines are immanent. Do new models have any effect on used equipment? I've never purchased a used Mac before...

.........................................
 
Eugene
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2012-06-09, 17:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I wonder what the Graphics Card options will be?
Haven't a clue what's readily available now. I'm assuming we've moved on from the Radeon HD5870?
The HD 5870 was only an option, with the 5770 being base. So I'd almost expect the HD 7770 to be the base config with an HD 7870 as an option. Technically the HD 7970 the top of the line, but I doubt Apple will use that.

If we're looking at Nvidia it becomes hazy. There's no good low-end '600 series' offering, so we might see something like a GTX 560 in the low-end with a GTX 670 being the high-end option. Who knows..?
 
Moogs
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2012-09-07, 10:53

Looking like Nvidia intends to keep trickling out super-high-end GPUs for the Mac at the rate of about 1 every 18 months. This would be an expensive BTO option but looks pretty impressive. For the true "time is money" set producing video and motion graphics, this card would pay for itself quickly.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/07/...u-for-mac-pro/

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-11, 22:43

So if you guys could get a 6 core 3.33 GHz Mac Pro (current version) with 16GB of RAM and 5870 card for $2800 + tax, would you do it... despite the oldness of the CPU and that we'll probably have something new in 8-10 months? And if your current Mac Pro was starting to slow you down / go on the fritz occasionally?

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Matsu
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2012-10-12, 10:20

Depends whose money I'm spending. Dept. money? As long as there's a need, yes. My own, probably not, just because I tend to use my computers for a long time. My MBP is going on seven years old now...

.........................................
 
Moogs
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2012-10-12, 11:55

My money. It's for business though, so also an amortized tax deduction (unless Romney stops me from deducting it as an expense! ).

I usually buy every 4-5 years. Going on 5 now.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-12, 12:12

I'm shocked Apple hasn't at the least cut prices on the Mac Pro.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-12, 17:50

Well they did drop them a little when the whole Cook debacle was going on. Mainly the RAM prices came down substantially for those models. Everything else is the same (I don't think the CPUs dropped any at that time, if they did it wasn't by much -- I think that was part of everyone's rage).

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-10-12, 18:02

Apple has stubbornly held the Pro to sky-high prices (and margins), figuring that business could afford it.

They probably won't change that unless the 2013 update is some kind of a game changer, and the economy still looks like, well, what it does now.
 
digitalprimate
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2012-10-12, 19:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Apple has stubbornly held the Pro to sky-high prices (and margins), figuring that business could afford it.

They probably won't change that unless the 2013 update is some kind of a game changer, and the economy still looks like, well, what it does now.
True. One of my clients is going to buy a Mac Pro next week, despite me advising him that if he could wait (which, in principle he can), he really should.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-13, 16:30

The thing is, are we talking about early 2013 or late? No one knows. If it's early then waiting is the way to go and you can always pickup a refurb Mac Pro if you don't like the new Thunder Cat design.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-10-14, 16:22

I doubt the Apple CEO would talk up a product update that is more than a year away.

Cook made the comments in June, and I personally expect that the Mac Pro will debut by WWDC in 2013. That is, by June of next year.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-15, 14:47

So 8 months max eh? I've never been that confident in predicting Mac Pro release dates because they don't seem to follow any pattern. The last several updates have seen releases in January (1), March (1), June (1), August (2). They clearly do not link it with WWDC. I don't think Mac Pros are that big a demographic with developers anyway although I suppose they'd help spur compile times.

If it's next August or next Fall, it would almost be worth buying IMO. If it's January or March I'd want to kick myself in the nuts. One positive thought is, if they're doing some type of form factor change (seems very likely), future updates for that design might be easier for Apple to handle more regularly (whenever Intel has new chips). In that case, if there's an update every 6 months it wouldn't be as big a deal to not time the first one correctly.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-10-15, 18:25

The Pro isn't really 'linked' to WWDC, but its aim at the Big Business, Higher Education, Government, Scientific and Developer markets do make it more of an item of interest to many WWDC attendees.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-15, 19:36

I suppose that's true. But I doubt they'd force that arrangement in general. Might be more like "hopefully we can announce at WWDC but it's ready when it's ready" since it's not a big profit center for them (although it is profitable generally). Actually I think NAB is the more likely event, if they're choosing one. That's where they're losing customers to HP (in the Adobe / Video space). That's in April...

Showing a new Mac Pro that has kick-ass GPU and CPU options that run Premiere and AE demos faster than HPs machines would be a big win for them in that space, because they're really losing mindshare there to both HP and Adobe especially. Whereas I don't think the threat is nearly as big in the developer / pro business user space. The niche where the perceived loss is really big, is video. They need to crank out something that is sexy, cost-competitive, and beats HPs best boxes in all sorts of Premiere, AE, and Photoshop bake-offs, as well as showing off latest version of Final Cut Pro X.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-10-15, 19:41

Yes, NAB is a contender as well. Perhaps alongside a new version of FCP.

I expect it to be earlier than later. Nobody at Apple is unaware of what happens when you announce a new version of a machine is in the pipeline.

If it was potentially 18 months away, Cook would have kept his mouth shut.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-15, 19:43

I think I'm going to hold off for now and just try a CC CLone of a new system drive and see if that works. But if the wonkiness continues I'll have to bite the bullet this winter / not wait for April / June / WHenever. I will check the Refurbs also. If they have the model I want in Refurb and it's another few hundred dollars cheaper I'll get that. Perfect stop-gap machine.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-15, 19:55

No doubt this will be a BTO option as well, although I suspect it will cost around 2 grand. Not a small investment for a GPU.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-k5000-mac.html

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Ebby
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2012-10-16, 01:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Yes, NAB is a contender as well. Perhaps alongside a new version of FCP.
I don't really see Apple taking NAB or post production seriously anymore. In fact, most "Pro" applications need a major kick in the pants just to get up to date, much less stay competitive. Don't get me wrong, I have been using FCP since 1999 and love it, but they shot themselves in the foot with FCPX and are years behind industry trends. Apple is riding on momentum until they remember how to be a real computer company again, not just an ipod/iphone company.

Last time I checked only the basics of Blu-ray authoring is available from Apple software so if a studio needs a second PC-based system to polish a product, why use Apple hardware at all? Unfortunately, that was the consensus of my TV/Film college as well and last I heard they made the switch.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
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Moogs
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2012-10-16, 16:50

I think that's an exagerration about FCPX. Everyone lost their mind because they removed about a half dozen pipeline type features (XML stuff, etc). All six were back in the app within a few months and a few extra, but suddenly it's "years behind the times"?

What does Premiere Pro do functionally that FCP X can't in terms of editing professional quality video? Not much, if anything. For the most part, it's faster because of GPU acceleration and better integrated with other important products like AE, Speed Grade and Photoshop. So the main advantage is as much about the other suite apps as it is the editor. Apple is one sharp update away to FCP X and Color, from being back on top in this sphere, if they can just handle the hardware side too. I'm not a video guru but they're not that far removed from the fray.

Some of these "plugs" you're seeing by various trainers and whatnot for other platforms are just them going with the trendy pick of the day and getting some love from the vendors in the process (i.e. free gear). If Apple releases a kick-ass product in April, they're right back on the Apple bandwagon.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
709
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2012-10-16, 21:38

I'll have to give FCP(X) another shot. I had to ditch it, unfortunately, for Media Composer. The first release was just so bleh and I need a full-on editor. One thing I do miss incredibly is DVDSP. That was the easiest and most elegant drag-n-drop software ever. Encore just, well, isn't.

I will say one thing about Encore though - it makes gorgeous Blu-Rays*. The UI needs work, but damn if if it doesn't produce the goods.


*(has external and loves it - gives zero fucks about the SuperDrive)

So it goes.
 
Moogs
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2012-10-16, 21:48

Yah Encore is a bit wonky but definitely more intuitive than DVDSP was.
 
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