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October 16 Mac / iPad event


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October 16 Mac / iPad event
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Wrao
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Join Date: May 2004
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2014-10-16, 16:40

The only weird thing about the Mac Mini update to me is that the $999 model exists at all really. Just seems like once you get to that point you're almost surely better off with a MBP or iMac, which maybe is why that model exists(for the up-sell). The low-end ones seem great though, it's a cool form factor and suits a ~$500 price point just fine for that.

The bizarre bit about today and maybe this'll quietly change before long but they're selling the iPad Mini, iPad Mini 2 and iPad Mini 3 simultaneously and that the iPad Mini 3 isn't even a different chip than the iPad Mini 2 just a few extra features, while the iPad Mini(original) is woefully poor at handling iOS 8(or 7 for that matter) Is it just me or would it have been more logical to just rebrand the thing "iPad Mini" with no numbers and go from there?

Also, it's a bit disappointing/weird that the last iPad Air/Mini update unified the two with the same internals and this one separates them again, just seems odd.

Almost like they had too many A7s laying around or something.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 17:10

Anyone notice that the sever version of the Mini is dead? I guess they were not selling as well as anticipated.
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Wrao
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2014-10-16, 17:26

I can't imagine they were selling great but also I'd have to figure Apple's renewed push into cloud everything might have factored into that as well "Just use our servers" etc.
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ezkcdude
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2014-10-16, 18:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
The only weird thing about the Mac Mini update to me is that the $999 model exists at all really. Just seems like once you get to that point you're almost surely better off with a MBP or iMac, which maybe is why that model exists(for the up-sell). The low-end ones seem great though, it's a cool form factor and suits a ~$500 price point just fine for that.

I already had a CinemaDisplay, the $999 model would have been right in my sweet spot. Maybe it's just for folks like that.
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chucker
 
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2014-10-16, 18:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Anyone notice that the sever version of the Mini is dead? I guess they were not selling as well as anticipated.
Well, sort of. Originally, the Mac mini server eschewed the optical drive for a second hard drive, and added an OS X Server license. The 2011 Mac mini still had a two-hard drive "Server" option, though there's now no more such thing as an optical drive anyway. The 2012 one just shipped with a 2TB drive. Now, that option is gone entirely.

But, thing is, 1) OS X Server can be had for crazy cheap, and 2) you're much better off configuring it to an SSD, then adding an external drive.

(Personally, if I were in the market for that sort of thing, I'd go with the mid-range model, then 16 GB RAM, and the 256 GB SSD. Sets you back $1099. Then add external storage.)

So, using a Mac mini as a weird server is still pretty much as much an option as it has been for years.
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thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
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2014-10-16, 18:59

According to a " Hands on Mac mini 2014 review" by Techradar.

RAM is no longer user-upgradeable!!

If that's the case then Better be prepared to pay Apple's prices!!

I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2014-10-16, 19:07

Are you serious? The one Mac they had that allowed for the easiest RAM upgrading, and they kill that.

Okay, fine. Then do they lower their Nutty BTO RAM prices to soften the blow and make it easier folks to make those decisions? Nope. They can be quite the "have our cake and it too" bastards about some of this stuff.

I guess there's a reason they're sitting in eleventy gazillion dollars.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 19:20

We really shouldn't be too surprised that fixed RAM came to the Mac Mini, that has been a trend with all the "lower end" models over the last few years.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 19:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Well, sort of. Originally, the Mac mini server eschewed the optical drive for a second hard drive, and added an OS X Server license. The 2011 Mac mini still had a two-hard drive "Server" option, though there's now no more such thing as an optical drive anyway. The 2012 one just shipped with a 2TB drive. Now, that option is gone entirely.

But, thing is, 1) OS X Server can be had for crazy cheap, and 2) you're much better off configuring it to an SSD, then adding an external drive.

(Personally, if I were in the market for that sort of thing, I'd go with the mid-range model, then 16 GB RAM, and the 256 GB SSD. Sets you back $1099. Then add external storage.)

So, using a Mac mini as a weird server is still pretty much as much an option as it has been for years.
To me the best aspect of the machine was the ability to run your system with an internal RAID setup. The sever software aspect was never something I cared much for.

Yes an SSD is faster on it's own, but if you had slapped two SSD's in that Mac Mini in RAID it would have been a beast. Then add external drives for storage as needed.
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thegeriatric
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Join Date: May 2006
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2014-10-16, 19:29

After searching for more information, I was unable to prove it one way or the other.

Apple charge 100 Dollars, 80 Pounds or 100 Euros to upgrade from 4 to 8!!

(Macworld UK are saying the same!)

I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Last edited by thegeriatric : 2014-10-16 at 19:34. Reason: Updated
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addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2014-10-16, 20:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeriatric View Post
After searching for more information, I was unable to prove it one way or the other.

Apple charge 100 Dollars, 80 Pounds or 100 Euros to upgrade from 4 to 8!!

(Macworld UK are saying the same!)
Eh, OWC charges $55 for 4GB of ram. So not a bargain, by any means, but not the total fuck you of yore.
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Chinney
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2014-10-16, 21:34

Apple sure has a wide array of products now - more than I can remember in the modern Apple incarnation. They seem to want to keep a bottom dollar version of devices, running older hardware, side-by-side with the newer releases. But the bottom-dollar versions are not that much cheaper, and are a far worse overall value. Why would anyone order the basic iPad mini when the iPad Mini 2 with an A7 is only $50 more? And why order the bottom basement Mac Mini when the next level up gets you so much more - albeit for $200 more - but so much better value overall? Same thing with the iMac.

I wonder if all this is just so that they can use a "Starting at only $XXX.XX" to get buyers in the door, and then sell them the higher grade models. I hope that they do manage to convince people to move at least one level up from the bottom-basement, because buyers will be much better off in the longer term if they do.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 22:07

Yes the lineup has expanded a lot over the years. I kind of miss the time when you could go to the Apple Store and there were two or three options for each device with BTO choices.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2014-10-16, 22:16

Can I no longer view my iTunes library by text listing? Is it just those stupid album covers now, only?

I wish they'd pick a design/look with iTunes, for better or worse, and stick with it for more than 1-2 versions. Seems like every time I download a new major release, it looks/acts goofier than the one that came before.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 22:22

You can view as text list. Select a Playlist, and it should work. You might need to tweak some view settings. If you want to see all your music as a list just click the "My Music" tab.

Edit: View options and chose "Songs" rather than view by album.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2014-10-16, 23:30

Just watched the keynote on my iPhone as my iMac was updating to Yosemite and all the new iWork, iPhoto, Garageband, etc. stuff (took forever...).

Good grief, that was painful at times.

It's like I suddenly don't recognize Apple here lately.

That horseshit with Stephen Colbert was awful. They're trying so hard to be breezy, cutesy and droll about everything. Just felt very schtick-y at times. That whole setup about the "doubling down on secrecy" presentation was just so labored and unfunny on about six different levels. I think Federighi is letting that reputation as the "cool, funny guy at Apple events" get to his head a bit, and now he's just endlessly going for open-mic-night schtick. It was much funnier, and genuine, when it was just the occasional well-placed/time zinger or observation, vs. non-stop attempts to be funny.
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PB PM
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2014-10-16, 23:57

Ugh the recent Apple presentations have been too boring to watch, so I spared myself this time around. Sounds like I didn't miss anything.
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addabox
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2014-10-17, 00:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Just watched the keynote on my iPhone as my iMac was updating to Yosemite and all the new iWork, iPhoto, Garageband, etc. stuff (took forever...).

Good grief, that was painful at times.

It's like I suddenly don't recognize Apple here lately.

That horseshit with Stephen Colbert was awful. They're trying so hard to be breezy, cutesy and droll about everything. Just felt very schtick-y at times. That whole setup about the "doubling down on secrecy" presentation was just so labored and unfunny on about six different levels. I think Federighi is letting that reputation as the "cool, funny guy at Apple events" get to his head a bit, and now he's just endlessly going for open-mic-night schtick. It was much funnier, and genuine, when it was just the occasional well-placed/time zinger or observation, vs. non-stop attempts to be funny.
Agree completely, that's just how it struck me.

Who was the guy that appeared in a video segment towards the end, talking about the 5k iMac? Can't remember his name, but he was photogenic, well spoken and charismatic. Fairly high up, a project manager or vice president in charge of something. I think they need that guy on stage more.

OK, I went back and looked, it's Dan Riccio, Senior Vice President of Hardware Engineering. Have we seen him before? He just comes across as genuine and passionate. He shouldn't be relegated to video segments, they need him on stage.

Also, watching that again, I realized something: Federighi is unnervingly close to Steve Martin's Wild and Crazy Guy character.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2014-10-17, 11:47

Weird as it sounds, Phil Schiller is the only one I don't mind watching at this point. At least he comes across a bit more earnest and "regular guy". Federighi's open-mic act wears on me after a while, Tim Cook's syrupy, slow-as-a-turtle drawl (if Al Gore and Tim Gunn had a son, he would sound like Tim Cook...the man is human NyQuil) and Eddy Cue always seems like he doesn't know quite what the hell he's doing on stage (he's the only one who seems to rely on a teleprompter, always looking down the front stage edge to remind himself what to say).

And that's fine...not everyone is comfortable and loose on stage, and if this sort of thing isn't in your blood/background, you're always going to struggle with it. But I always kinda dread his segments.

But yeah...watching yesterday's event, about 2/3 of the way through it hit me just how much I miss Steve Jobs at times like that. Perfect? No, but more engaging and fun to watch than all these guys combined, for sure. It now takes 2-5 people to do what he did by himself for years. Kinda interesting, and telling.

That whole "secrecy" segment just had my cringing. I wanted to fast-forward through it, but I was afraid I might miss some actual important info (I didn't). Definitely one of those events I'll never watch again. Some of them - the iPhone announcement, the original iMac, the iPad, etc. - I can watch again and always enjoy.
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addabox
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2014-10-17, 13:39

The other thing about Jobs, and it makes me uneasy because I suspect this is a loss that goes beyond how they come off in keynotes, is the story. Jobs could weave a tale of inevitability, necessity and need. How the latest thing Apple had done solved this genuine problem, even if that problem was "not fast enough" or "not thin enough."

Jobs was, in fact, an enormously logical and clear headed thinker about the nature of technology and the role is plays in our lives. Every time he took the stage you could feel the backstory-- that what you were seeing right then was just a piece of the larger picture, an empowering step along the road of lives made easier and tasks made simpler and previously disparate parts connected.

Whether or not all of that was always true wasn't entirely the point (although the fact that if often was what made it work). The current crew are gifted engineers and designers and coders and managers, one and all no doubt. And they're working from the powerful template Jobs put in place, which puts the user experience before everything else.

But they sometimes don't seem to know why. Not in the way Jobs did. Jobs could see it, the future he was helping to make. If he had introduced an Apple Watch, you better believe you'd know right now why you'd want one. Hell, you'd be pretty sure you needed one. Because of the story. He'd conjure it up so you could see it to.

Cook can talk warmly about how nice a watch will be (or any other Apple exec about any other Apple product), but there's no real story. It's just disparate facts about processes and cool tech and how hard they worked to make it happen. Features. Examples. Constant references to how "only Apple" can pull something off. But no story.

Of course, the bigger question is if Jobs' Apple would have even introduced a watch. I think it might have been one of the things he would have said no to, at least until the tech permitted a compelling narrative of how you'd use it.

And that's what concerns me. I have no doubt that Apple can continue to churn out beautifully engineered products, some of them in new categories, all of them highly desirable in various ways. But if they don't know why, if they don't have a great sense of how the tech works to benefit their users-- and I mean really benefit, not just titillate or or satisfy some vague techno-lust-- then they have ceased to be Apple. They'll me much more like, say, Sony.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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addabox
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2014-10-17, 13:57

I should probably add that there are signs that Apple actually does have a pretty compelling road map (Continuity across devices, iCloud improvements, starting to sort of "disembody" services so that they start to feel like entities in their own right instead of features of hardware) but they aren't doing a very good job of conveying that. And I worry if they can't do a good job of conveying it it's because they don't have a keen idea where they're going. I hope I'm wrong.

Like, by now Steve Jobs would have sat us all down and explained the progression from stand alone machine to digital hub to internet device to iCloud referencing client. Why having everything in the cloud makes your watch/phone/tablet/laptop/desktop so much more powerful than the sum of the parts. Not just "see, everything synchronizes by magic!", but some catchy, memorable phrase or concept that sells us on the idea of this new paradigm.

Obviously it's not new, Google is built on the idea, but that Jobs' forte-- taking this bundle of tech that does stuff if you know how, giving it an easily graspable framework that tells a cool story, and delivering the tools to make that experience dead simple and fun. Right? The experience before the tools. The tools are just there to allow you to do this thing, to ride the bicycle for the mind, to have your music library in your pocket, to carry a computer wherever you go, to unleash the power of touch to create an intimate experience with your content.

The sole example we have of post Jobs big thinking we have from Apple is the watch, and it lets you.... make payments? Monitor your heart rate? Get notifications? Those are all fun, no doubt, but where's the big hook? How does this build the future? What's the metaphor? Don't know.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated

Last edited by addabox : 2014-10-17 at 14:08.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2014-10-17, 15:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
The other thing about Jobs, and it makes me uneasy because I suspect this is a loss that goes beyond how they come off in keynotes, is the story. Jobs could weave a tale of inevitability, necessity and need. How the latest thing Apple had done solved this genuine problem, even if that problem was "not fast enough" or "not thin enough."

Jobs was, in fact, an enormously logical and clear headed thinker about the nature of technology and the role is plays in our lives. Every time he took the stage you could feel the backstory-- that what you were seeing right then was just a piece of the larger picture, an empowering step along the road of lives made easier and tasks made simpler and previously disparate parts connected.

Whether or not all of that was always true wasn't entirely the point (although the fact that if often was what made it work). The current crew are gifted engineers and designers and coders and managers, one and all no doubt. And they're working from the powerful template Jobs put in place, which puts the user experience before everything else.

But they sometimes don't seem to know why. Not in the way Jobs did. Jobs could see it, the future he was helping to make. If he had introduced an Apple Watch, you better believe you'd know right now why you'd want one. Hell, you'd be pretty sure you needed one. Because of the story. He'd conjure it up so you could see it to.

Cook can talk warmly about how nice a watch will be (or any other Apple exec about any other Apple product), but there's no real story. It's just disparate facts about processes and cool tech and how hard they worked to make it happen. Features. Examples. Constant references to how "only Apple" can pull something off. But no story.

Of course, the bigger question is if Jobs' Apple would have even introduced a watch. I think it might have been one of the things he would have said no to, at least until the tech permitted a compelling narrative of how you'd use it.

And that's what concerns me. I have no doubt that Apple can continue to churn out beautifully engineered products, some of them in new categories, all of them highly desirable in various ways. But if they don't know why, if they don't have a great sense of how the tech works to benefit their users-- and I mean really benefit, not just titillate or or satisfy some vague techno-lust-- then they have ceased to be Apple. They'll me much more like, say, Sony.
I agree 8,000%. That's how I'm feeling lately. Nothing gloomy or bad, mind you. Just a realization that "it's different now". Which is to be expected. But still...I'm enjoying - and looking forward to these things - less than I ever have in 14 or so years.
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ezkcdude
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2014-10-20, 10:16

Anybody have an idea when the new iPad will be available in the Apple Stores?
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turbulentfurball
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2014-10-20, 16:17

'By the end of next week'. I just walked past my local store (I live 5 minutes walk from one... A blessing and a curse) and they happened to be changing the huge graphics. I doubt they'll have the new iPads so soon though.
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addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
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2014-10-21, 21:44

Store around here are getting the first shipments tomorrow. There is an overnight scheduled for tomorrow night so I'm assuming they'll be available on Thursday.
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ezkcdude
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2014-10-22, 10:50

I called the store here and they said Friday.
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addison
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2014-10-22, 20:03

They'll be on the floor tomorrow but stores around here were doing personal pickups this afternoon.
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Brave Ulysses
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2014-10-23, 01:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Yep. It's got to be a thunderbolt equipped Mac now. That's why my PC gaming tower from several years back has been retired - I don't have the room for another display. It's too old to be cutting edge anymore now, but it was nice when I could use my iMac as a display for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Ah, I see- Thunderbolt mucked that up. But you can still do it with a Thunderbolt equipped Mac, so any recent MacBook Pro should be good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
Sorry. Won't work.

Thunderbolt 1 and 2 can not drive a 5K display even if the iMac supported TDM.
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turbulentfurball
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2014-10-23, 07:41

My local store got the new iPad Airs today. Interestingly, the demo units are 32GB, considering that they don't sell that capacity.
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ezkcdude
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2014-10-23, 23:11

I got the iPad Air with 64 GB this morning. I love it so far.
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