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Join Date: Nov 2005
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I'm not sure what it's like in US colleges, but in my experience in the UK we all still use notepads (i.e. pen & paper) in our classrooms. I for one would feel a lot less self conscious about pulling a tablet out of my bag in a lecture than my iBook. When I did my degree, I would never have been able to keep up with typing my notes, especially when it came to some of the more involved mathematical proofs (especially in modelling). Even now it can take me over 30 mins to fill a page with equations, with a pen/pencil/stylus it would only take about 5-10mins.
I know students could be considered a niche area, but I for one would definitely trade in for a tablet Mac (I'll be returning to Uni soon). I already have a BT keyboard and mouse, so it's not like there's an issue when I get home and need to do any serious typing. |
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I keep on seeing people on these forums Tablet bashing. But I have no idea why. They argue that UMPCs are crap and yes they are pretty turd-u-lus SO FAR . The patents being released left right and centre from apple on the other hand; show true innovation in Touch Screen computing (Real Minority Report Stuff) and that demo video of multi-touch screen tech that has circulated 1 million times over is out of this world.
I think this could be one of their most successful products because the tablet concept has been rehashed by all of these companies time and time again and there is certainly some mindshare linked to these attempts. At the moment it feels like something is missing in the tablet strategy and we just need someone to fill in the gaps and create the perfect product. Link that to the most successful Gadget on the planet and market it under the coolest brand icon of today. When this happens (when the whole widget is assembled) there will finally be a winner in the true portable computer market. |
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Keep in mind that many here have had this very same conversation for well over a decade now. Every couple of months there is a new thread heralding tablets as the latest and greatest. Thing is, tablets aren't new and their merits have been studied for multiple decades. We aren't just off-handedly dissmissing them. Interacting with a tablet simply isn't optimal for that many tasks. |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Valley, WA
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I'm not a fan of any tablet machine up to this point. My attitude is based on extensive use of tablets in the past for work and training.
They do work for the most part, but they really haven't found a place in general computing at all. Given the choice for note taking, I'm more efficient on a traditional laptop. I can take notes and diagram (accurately) as fast, if not faster than someone on a whiteboard. I type much, much faster than I could ever hope to write clearly even with handwriting recognition. Tablets have found a small niche in POS and medical fields to some extent and have been there for some time. I'm sure Apple could make a tablet seem cool and would sell a bunch, but I'm still skeptical at their general usefulness. Maybe after seeing a *really* cool one *with* a killer application that makes me more efficient than I would otherwise be with a traditional laptop I'll change my mind. I also can't help associating the tablet fantasy with too much time spent watching Star Trek. I mean if Captain Kirk used one then it *must* be the superior computing interface of the future, right?...right? I know all people wishing for a tablet aren't in this group, but instead of pining for the tablet, look for the problem it actually solves. Show me the application that would absolutely rock on it (moreso than on a traditional portable). Seriously, the technology for really cool tablets exists, the software doesn't. The software is key and until it exists the tablet is a geek toy (no offense to anyone, I'm a geek too.). |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
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And we were promised flying cars back in the 50s.
Where's my flying car? (Just kidding, flying cars would be useful if they weren't so expensive.) Great post Bancho. I agree, some workers, such as in the health care industry, have a genuine use for tablets. But mostly tablets are for niche tasks/markets. However, I disagree that software is the holdup. The utility of tablets is limitted mostly by the size of conveniently carriable objects not by a lack of software. Gadgets small enough to carry around don't have efficient input techniques nor large displays. No matter how good the software, handwriting will still be slow and the display will still be small. If the gadget is increased in size, it is no longer convenient to carry and hold while using. Edit: The only killer app I see on the horizon are customizable maps and data based upon your current GPS location. Yet standalone devices for doing this already exist. Unfortunately, heir utility and appeal is still governed by form factor. Tiny screens will always be tiny no matter how good software gets. Last edited by dfiler : 2006-04-26 at 13:27. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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I really want a convertible tablet. Writing with a pen just seems so much more natural to me - I can underline stuff, draw arrows, write notes to myself in the margins, doodle, whatever. I'd also be a lot more interested in graphics apps (and art, in general) if I could just draw onto the screen. Of course, it's doubtful Apple will ever make one, which puts me into a hard spot. I'll probably keep writing on paper and transfering that to my Mac. But, to me, a tablet really is a best-of-both-words kinda scenario. It's a natural way of writing that still lets me keep all my notes together. And I'd be a liar if I said a tablet PC wasn't tempting. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
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I think the key words in your post are "really want" and "tempting".
Both are accurate... but much different than "really need" and "useful". |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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I want a tablet that's actually a tablet -- think steno pad sized. That gives you a form factor of 6.5x9.5 and 5/8" thick. 1.5lbs/680 grams.
Full wireless connectivity, and auto-synching with your desktop or laptop if it knows where it is on the network--worldwide. Uses your laptop/desktop on the network to get heavy duty tasks done, not quite thin client, but more X-grid/remote desktop like. Put a 9.5 to 10" widescreen touch sensitive display on it, that's bigger than the original Macintoshes had with about a 1/4" bezel and a great size weight for on the go video. Usually, but not always streamed from your own home/work machine! Gotta be able to have enough local storage to watch on a plane/train, or kids in the back seat crossing the wastes of Nebraska. A battery good for 12 hours in a reasonable conservation mode, 100% non-moving storage. Tons of RAM and lots of flash. It's all local cache for more speed on less power draw. Killer app? - Sound recording capability and built in sound editing/voice parsing for post meeting/class processing. Farm that work out to the laptop/desktop and save battery. Now you can sit in a meeting or lecture, take time stamped notes and drive a auto-transcript generation utility. This gets even better if you make it Keynote syncable. Just import any PPT slides to Keynote and get the full auto synch for later playback/review. Yeah, there are implementation details here but you get the idea. Never again have some asshat be able to wriggle out of a statement made in a meeting or lecture. Never again have to lug something more than a pound an a half to do notes on or handle quick jottings. Killer app 2?. When sitting on the desk next to the laptop/desktop and docked for recharging have a mode that would work like an intelligent input device/second monitor simultaneously. I can't begin to tell you how slick that would be for prototyping ideas, or marking up homework, etc. Throw some other cool app stuff in to boot, I'm sure some of you have some more great ideas. Bottom line is this is not a primary machine replacement, and not a repackaged form factor of anything currently in the market today. It is a new set of functionality in a form factor that could be positioned as the ultimate must have lightweight extension of the current machine into a worldwide computing asset. You are essentially taking your office/home machine's capabilities with you in the size of a steno pad. I probably won't do great for FPS dynamic graphics games, but could probably handle most other genre's just fine, and that's OK because that's FPS is not what it would be designed for. It would probably also drive a little ecosystem of accessories like on-the-go keyboards, optical drives, GPS navigation and other I/O devices [universal semi-self programming home theater remote? interface] to add things some folks want that others don't. Shoot for the $499-$599 price point. We are't far off from the capability right now, battery life/form factor and some of the remote software design are the biggest issues right now. Apple already has the underlying technological pieces, just not stitched together in one cohesive manner. |
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(Disclaimer - these are constructive and not meant to cause offense) Killer app #1 - How does a tablet do this better than a laptop running the same app. Sound/voice recording doesn't really exploit the tablet form factor. Not sure if they could include enough power in your concept to parse/process the audio the way you mention so that again points back to a more powerful device like a laptop. Killer app #2 - Is this potentially better than just getting a Graphire pen tablet and using it with the laptop? How? I'm also trying to picture using it while it's "docked" even if the dock kept it completely flat or was a cable ala iPod. I'm having a tough time envisioning a comfortable position for using it in this fashion. Size/form factor - I like the size you've chosen. Steno pad size would be pretty ideal in my experience. Make it thin and light and it'll be interesting. Accessories - As with the iPods I'd expect your accessory part to be true. Gotta have a nice protective sleeve/cover for your new baby, and a color coordinated lanyard so you don't drop it while in use. Oh, and you need the MacDock for at home use with keyboard/mouse. You need etc... Price - This seems wishful but it's hard to estimate unless you really have a better idea what the end product will be. Will it be a PDA on steroids or will it be an iBook(MacBook) sans keyboard/trackpad? With laptops like Sony's SZ series and the rumored upcoming MacBook I'm less and less convinced that a tablet will make a lot of sense to many people. The Sony (since the MacBook is a bit vaporous for now) has the power of the Core Duo, a nice GPU setup with integrated for power savings and discrete for speed depending on conditions, good storage and RAM capacity, built-in camera, wireless and DVD burning all in a small lightweight form factor with a 13.3" widescreen display. It's got enough power to be a primary machine and can be hooked up to an monitor/keyboard/mouse for desktop use. Given the choice of using a tablet, or just bringing your sub-4lb machine along with you and having full application availability I'd choose the laptop every time. Another disclaimer - I use the Sony as a point of reference because I think it's the closest machine to the upcoming MacBook in terms of size and features (GPU aside). It's also small and light though not as sleek as I'd expect of Apple's iBook replacement. Last edited by Bancho : 2006-04-27 at 11:18. |
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I want the power of my desktop/laptop available for some tasks, but I don't want to carry them everywhere. I don't need their instantaneous power for the majority of stuff I do outside the office/home, but I want an order of magnitude more power than is available in a PDA. I almost feel guilty that my Palm T5 sits docked most of the time because the paper steno pad usually serves me better away from my desk. Quote:
As for how useful, the Graphire pen tablet doesn't have its own display on the input surface, you could use this as a second display/tablet input simultaneously. I can see several uses where this can be a reasonable second display option. Input devices only work at the machine they are physically connected to and don't act as displays of their own. The PDA is just a leech on my desk sucking juice out of the synch cable, it is only used away from my desk, and not useful enough at that. One of the big things here is the device never becomes just a wart on the desk when you are at your main high powered box. It is ALWAYS an extension of the power of the home machine, just treat that extension differently in different contexts depending if you are at "home" or away. Quote:
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And now killer App #3: Education. Sell school systems these and make their "home horsepower machine" a server rack in the schools. A bit of virtualization software on a small Xserve rack can probably handle an entire elementary/middle school, a bigger rack for a high school, and eliminate many of the machine control issues some school systems have seen with unauthorized use by unauthorized software. |
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The Sony starts at $1399. I'd expect the MacBook to beat that price (in base form) by a healthy margin.
For killer app #1 again, all laptops have microphones, so how does the tablet do it better? It has nothing fundamentally to do with the tablet form factor or interface. I'm a fan of writing notes on paper, but the paradigm shift of writing on any sort of tablet doesn't grab me at all. My handwriting is more code than anything else and I'm skeptical of another human being to read it reliably let alone a handwriting recognition engine. The tactile feel is never right for me and being able to endlessly write in a single position feels odd when compared to traditional pen and dead tree. (Don't even ask me how I like signing for credit card transactions on that tablet thingy at the register) I'm fantastic (I don't think I'm unique in this regard) with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse however in school and now in work the laptop is indispensible to me. I don't dispute there are people that will love a tablet. I do think there is a vast landscape of people who given the choice, would choose the laptop in a small form factor over a semi dumb tablet. I mean, they'd have their iTunes at hand, games, notes, graphics apps, email, internet. People still buy PDAs and some people even buy Windows based tablets so I know there is a niche of people who demand that functionality. As for price again, Apple charges $399 for their top of the line iPod. The portable DVD comparison was flawed. A tablet uses a wider and more complex set of chips than a portable DVD player. The DVD player can use a relatively simple set of chips for a single purpose (playing, decoding and displaying video content). While you could do away with the optical drive, you'd need a high quality digitizer, RAM, flash if you wanted to forego rotational media, some sort of port layout unless you wanted to go the iPod data cable route, stylus (cute Apple designed pointy stick), and a nice rugged enclusure and reasonably well protected screen for constant input use. I've got a tough time believing that you'd get this for anywhere near the price of a 60GB iPod (just an example). Getting the functionality you're after for $499 to $599 seems optimistic. Last edited by Bancho : 2006-04-27 at 14:23. |
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Optomistic or not, that's what I want. If it's not sufficiently close to that and that price point don't bother because then it's either a big expensive PDA which is just as useless as the T5. Or a castrated laptop for the full laptop price and I don't need one of those.
As for your main reservations, all of them pretty much fall into personal preferences which is fine. I really think the market for a device like I want would eventually turn it into a class of universal must have daily items over 10-20 years. And from my perch inside the CS community I see all the underlying infrastructure available to be able to generate and field such a device/software combo any time given the will to develop it. At this point it's a tech/style integration project, more than a R&D level of effort, with battery life being the lone potential party pooper (I don't know enough about state of the art there). |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paris
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I think an electronic tablet that is actually a tablet is impossible right now at any realistic price point. Take any paper steno pad or stack of handwritten notes after one or two classes or a few hours of work, and then add up the total square inches of surface area. With even a few pages of notes the surface area of the paper form far exceeds the 12/13" electronic surface area, and the paper form far exceeds the electronic in terms of ease of reading and editing, particularly with a stack of papers which can be placed side by side and in various orders. Even an Apple-quality user interface on the electronic form cannot replicate the readability, editing ease, and surface area of paper notes.
Of course, after some critical mass of content and organization is achieved, then the electronic form is easier, but at that point a word processor on a laptop probably provides the best approach. And for those who can speed-type notes into a laptop during class, I do not see the need for a tablet since, after that critical mass of material is reached, a regular word processor is again the best, in my opinion, and it is not much larger than a tablet is likely to be. The new ebook readers are decent (http://www.irextechnologies.com/shop.../solutions.htm) and, I believe, have some editing capabilities which would be handy in taking class notes (at least when discussing actual ebook content), but even here I believe real paper is still more convenient, since even these readers, which with their editing capabilities can be regarded as something of a tablet, are pretty large and not a whole lot smaller than a thin and light 12"/13" laptop, and they lack real word processing capability. |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Switzerland
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It would be nice if Apple release something like a newton maybe in combination with an iPhone or something like this. But more a newton as a phone.
And I hope that Apple brings also a 13" MBP because i liked the 12" Powerbook very much it was small,powerfull and looks very sexy. |
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And Kirk never used a tablet, too administrative for his character… Spock always had a tricorder though… The actual everyday tablet usage on Star Trek came about with the advent of Star Trek: The Next Generation… I, for one, think that an Applified tablet is the next big paradigm shift in general computer usage, and will be the major mode of interfacing with computers within the next five to ten years… As for the whole "I can type faster than hardwriting recognition can decipher my chickenscratch" arguement… Must have been ignoring all of those virtual keyboard patents, huh…?!? |
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I'm glad that, along with your paradigm shift, you bothered to mention where a tablet would actually excel where a laptop wouldn't. Oh wait, you didn't. Listen, I'm open to the idea but I'm *very* skeptical. I do have a ton of experience with the current and past ones. I'd be thrilled for someone to reinvent the whole concept and I do think if it can be done, Apple will do it. Look, my point isn't really to tear down the idea of a tablet. I know a lot of people really want one. I also know that they have found some success in certain niche markets. My point is that no one is buying existing tablet machines and PDA sales aren't that great either. To me it's more inportant to have the problem understood before just designing another random tablet. You've also got to consider if an existing device solves the problem adequately then what real purpose does the tablet serve? If Apple is trying to produce an updated ibook successor, and there is no clearly defined problem that demands a tablet, then why would Apple saddle consumers with the added cost, complexity and questionable value of producing it as a tablet? That's the question that sparked this thread in the first place. I'd be more inclined to think that a tablet would be it's own brand new device rather than an evolution of the low end laptop we're waiting for. Also, as an aside, please do not mistake my skepticism for a desire for Apple *not* to produce a tablet. I'm as into gadgets and toys as much as the next geek and welcome whatever they come up with. I'm sure that when they feel the time is right, they'll release a device that will blow us away. Last edited by Bancho : 2006-04-30 at 00:21. |
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FedEx & UPS guys do that to me now… But I don't consider that as my using a tablet… Now Jean Luc, he USED a tablet! Hardly ever a scene in the Captain's Ready Room where he doesn't pick up a tablet to reference reports & whatnot… (…this is where my friends would tell me to let my geek flag fly…) Quote:
And then Apple showed us (the royal us) their touchscreen interface plans… O frabjous day! Quote:
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A 17" DCC tablet would round out my Apple tablet lineup… Last edited by MacRonin : 2006-04-30 at 02:18. |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Valley, WA
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If nothing else, a good tablet topic is always a great lightning rod to help pass time until Apple makes their next hardware release.
Then we can bitch about integrated graphics, too much heat, imaginary competition that supposedly smokes whatever Apple realeased, Steve jobs is the devil, etc... All very fun stuff |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
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[deadhorse mode]
8" widescreen multi-touch LCD 1.06GHz ULV Core Duo CPU w/2MB shared cache 533MHz FSB 512MB NAND flash memory 2GB DDR2 SDRAM (two SO-DIMM slots) 32GB 1.8" FlashRAM HDD Intel GMA950 integrated GPU WUSB (wireless USB) AirPort Extreme BlueTooth Quad band cell capabilities Pivoting iSight camera stereo BlueTooth headset w/microphone Stylus Mac OS X 10.5 iLife '06 iWork '06 About the size of a DVD case (which is really close to a 16:10 ratio) and half again as thick... [/deadhorse mode] |
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