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Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2012-08-06, 13:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Am I the only one in the world who just cannot see Apple releasing smaller iPads?
Probably. While I really like my iPad, I can definitely see myself enjoying a tablet near the size of Nexus 7. My company bought one for development and the size is great but the OS stinks. Having said that, I realize an 8" tablet at the current contrast ratio is significantly larger than a Nexus 7.

I suspect it will cost 300. Apple knows this market is going to be a cash cow and they are willing to take slightly lower margins in order to gain market share. I know I would sacrifice short term profit (while still making plenty, mind you) in order to essentially monopolize the market for tablets, which will be a one hundred billion dollar business in several years.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
 
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
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2012-08-06, 14:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Am I the only one in the world who just cannot see Apple releasing smaller iPads?
Yes.
 
hmurchison
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2012-08-06, 14:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Am I the only one in the world who just cannot see Apple releasing smaller iPads?
Nah there's got to be at least one other non-believer



My fam will probably purchase 3 of these bad boys this holiday.
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-08-15, 10:09

Latest roundup, via MacRumors.

I like these, and they make sense. The "hook" could very well be insane lightness/thinness (iPod touch thinness!), combined with an affordable price, the already-in-place app offerings, the general ecosystem and Apple's iOS momentum...damn, I can see this being the MacBook Air/iPod nano of the iPad line (wildly popular smaller, more affordable alternatives).
 
Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-08-15, 10:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Am I the only one in the world who just cannot see Apple releasing smaller iPads?
I'm 50/50 at this point. I can see it going either way. The thing about an iPad mini would be it's weight. An iPad you can one-hand.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
 
arteggio
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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2012-08-15, 11:06

At first it didn't make sense for me, but now I'm not sure.

I think I will replace my iMac with a 2nd gen retina MacBook Pro. And I really love my iPad. But, look at all of that overlap. It feels like too much to justify both an iPad and rMBP.

But an iPad Mini? I think that actually makes sense in this setup: something bigger than my iPhone for dedicated reading/watching, but not so big that it makes that expensive laptop feel redundant too much of the time.

Has this article from Mashable been brought up yet in this thread? "The iPad Mini Is Inevitable. This Chart Explains Why."

Hmmm.

 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-08-15, 11:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
I'm 50/50 at this point. I can see it going either way. The thing about an iPad mini would be it's weight. An iPad you can one-hand.
That's what Gruber's huge article posted last night is about. How, despite not having a Retina Display (which I'm still convinced most people wouldn't notice, or give two damns about anyway and wouldn't know if they had it or not), they can go cheaper and smaller (not as big of a battery to driving all those pixels for comparable timeframes to non-Retina devices) and that the big draw of such a device would be something with a bigger screen than this new Nexus...but a smaller, thinner body.

Kinda like with the phones. We all assumed it Apple "went bigger" on the iPhone, it would be in both directions, approaching Note territory. Which no rational person wants. Ideally, you want the biggest screen you can get, in as small, sleek and light of a body as you can get.

The 4/4s does this, and, judging by all the leaks, the new iPhone is going to adhere to this. Easy, natural one-hand use. And their "4-inch iPhone" will be achieved by not going up and out in all directions, but in just one...up. Another row of icons on the homescreen, true 16:9 video, etc. but still fits, and feels, in one's hand the way the iPhone has felt since 2010 (you can't underplay the familiarity/comfort angle in this stuff). After five years, Apple can't - and won't - go making an iPhone so radically different in feel and comfort. If they can make the screen larger within a same-sized body, they can.

So the same sort of thinking applies to this alleged iPad mini. Do away with some of the bezel, if possible, and have the screen be as large - but the body containing it be as small and thin - as possible. Ideally, we'll one day have bezel-less devices and the OS will just know the difference between a touch gesture/navigation and a thumb idly resting on the side.

Until then, yeah, we have to deal with a half-inch (or more) of something on the sides of these larger devices. But if Apple can get it down to that sweet spot where the tradeoff in size/weight isn't too much of an impact on usability/comfort, they'll have a nice thing.

And of all companies out there dealing in this sort of stuff, I trust Apple would be the one to pull it off. Call me crazy...but they've got a pretty okay track record in nailing this stuff.
 
Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2012-08-15, 12:51

The latest rumor is that the Microsoft Surface RT (the cheaper ARM-based one) could sell for $199. That would be an INSANE price for a 10" tablet, normally reserved for the HP Touchpad and cheap Chinese models. That could put some serious pressure on Apple to offer a cheaper iPad, especially if the Surface Pro is similarly inexpensive (say, $600 or less for an x86-based laptop replacement running a full Windows OS).

It's just a rumor that came out yesterday and there's no way of knowing if it's true. Maybe the Surface will split the difference between the old $600-$1000 rumors of a few months ago and the new $200 rumor from yesterday. But if MS does push this thing that hard, it'll shake up the tablet space yet again.
 
Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-08-15, 14:00

I don't see the ARM surface selling for less than $399. At $199 they're basically breaking even on hardware. Maybe they're that desperate at this point, but once they start selling it at $199 they'll never be able to justify charging more than $199 for it, which does not bode well for their long term profitability prospects.

It's amazing to me they didn't announce a price. Use a high estimate if you have to, but not announcing a price just opens the door to these kinds of stupid rumors.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2012-08-15 at 17:39.
 
wtd
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2012-08-15, 23:19

It also makes it unlikely other companies will throw any significant resources at it. Assuming Surface continues to be the premiere WinRT tablet, and it's $199, then competitors need to be cheaper than that to compete. Otherwise you'd just buy the Surface.

And they have to be significantly cheaper. $179 or 189 isn't going to be compelling when you can get what you really want for $10-20 more.

So competitors would have to be more like $149 to sell in quantity, and even without software licensing fees, they're taking a huge hit on each unit sold to get... nothing. No continuing revenue from app sales, and in my experience, people who are attracted to dirt cheap electronics are unlikely to spend heavily on accessories.
 
Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
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2012-08-15, 23:59

It does seem farfetched. One person pointed out that if MS sells their own tablet at a loss, it'll hurt their hardware partners by making it impossible to compete. I almost think the remote gained traction because people want it to be true.

At any rate, this thread is about the iPad mini, not the Surface. I think you guys are overanalyzing it a bit... really, graphs of price vs configuration? They'll either decide the Nexus 7 is worth competing with or they won't, and they'll have to strike while the iron is hot, so no Q2 2013 business either. Probably released alongside the new iPhone. Stick iPad 2 internals in it, sell for $300, and call it a day.
 
Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2012-08-16, 11:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
Stick iPad 2 internals in it, sell for $300, and call it a day.
Right, but the point is that you can get an iPad with iPad 2 internals for $399. It's called the iPad 2. This thing has to stand out in it's own way for a reason that isn't just price, hence the discussion over weight/thinness. If they can get it below 300 grams, then it will be realistically one-handable for extended periods of time, i.e. the perfect reading/watching device, and I think that's what Apple is going for.

I think "iPad air" is a much better name than "iPad mini," and does a better job of conveying the purpose of the device. It's not appealing because it's smaller... it's appealing because it's lighter. Two sides of the same coin, sure, but they have different effects on the usability of the device. (Namely, that smaller decreases usability, but lighter increases usability, so it balances out.)

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2012-08-16 at 11:23.
 
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-08-16, 12:33

I love the look of the mockup in the MR story 'scates linked to. I never thought to imagine the longer edges to have a much thinner bezel, but it does make sense. I never hold my Fire vertically with two hands, but always do horizontally. Leave it to Apple to design the obvious - and it kind've shows how little thought the Nexus/Fire got put into them beyond "make a smaller version of the iPad".

So it goes.
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-08-16, 13:15

Yeah, I was thinking about that stuff too. If it's as thin and light as those MR stories point to, holding it with one hand in the bottom-ish edge, around the home button, is doable (unlike with a full-size iPad, which is always heavier than I imagine it to be, every time I pick one up ). And then, when used horizontally for games other things, you've got two nice, wide grip areas.

If Apple surprises everyone (the way they did in 2010 by announcing that $499 and making the entire room freak out), then they could get this down to "lower than we expect/assume". At that point, it's got "Christmas madhouse" written all over it. It'll be the gift to give (and receive) for so many.

I'm telling you...it'll prove to be the more popular iPad in short time...price, cuteness and tote-ability count huge in this stuff. And all the other pieces are firmly in place, so there's no risk or downside in terms of content, apps, "how do I use it?", etc. It would be a monster. All those people who can't bring themselves to shell out $400 or more for a "sometimes" device would be more inclined to do so if the buy-in was $199-299 (I just hope it wouldn't be over $299).

Mark my words...the full-size $499+ iPads will eventually be seen like the 15-17" notebooks and the big white iPods. A market does exist for them, no doubt, but the majority of people will be drawn to "small, cute, affordable and still does everything I need...what's not to love?!".

They always are.

Apple's already proven that with the iPod nano and MacBook Air. This will be no different, I predict.
 
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-08-16, 13:50

Ok Paul I'm convinced. let me have one Apple C'mon c'mon
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-08-16, 13:52

I'm on the fence about when it might happen. September 12 (or whenever the new iPhone is rolled out) makes sense in a lot of ways. But, in other ways, it doesn't. And, then again, it might not even exist, period.

Gonna be an interesting September.
 
Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2012-08-16, 16:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Right, but the point is that you can get an iPad with iPad 2 internals for $399. It's called the iPad 2. This thing has to stand out in it's own way for a reason that isn't just price, hence the discussion over weight/thinness. If they can get it below 300 grams, then it will be realistically one-handable for extended periods of time, i.e. the perfect reading/watching device, and I think that's what Apple is going for.
Why? $300 is significantly cheaper than $400. And giving it a smaller screen will naturally cause it to become smaller and lighter. Boom, there you go, cheaper and more portable.

It is also significant because it puts it within spitting distance of the Nexus 7. The 16 GB N7 is $250. I think a good number of people would be willing to pay a $50 premium for the iPad brand. Or if they went $250-$300 for 16 and 32 GB versions, that would be even better because at that point it's technically the same cost as the N7 (but with more usable storage options). Honestly the 8 GB N7 is good for advertising, but 8 GB of storage is very limiting when a lot of the high end games are 100 MB or more, and that's not something you can fix with cloud storage.
 
Majost
monkey with a tiny cymbal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
 
2012-08-16, 16:09

Cripes. Did Scates inherit Job's old RDF? Seriously, that's the best sell of the iPad Mini Air I've read. Bravo. And here I thought I'd never get an iPad...
 
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-08-16, 19:40

Great name iPad Air. I love it.
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-08-17, 00:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majost View Post
Cripes. Did Scates inherit Job's old RDF? Seriously, that's the best sell of the iPad Mini Air I've read. Bravo. And here I thought I'd never get an iPad...
I do what I can.

But seriously, it's just lying there, wide open, IMO. Smaller, cheaper, lighter, thinner, etc. Kinda sells itself.
 
wtd
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2012-08-17, 01:31

Kind of goes with Steve's past comments that if anyone's going to cannibalize Apple's sales, it'll be Apple themselves.
 
Chellovek
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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2012-08-17, 06:56



Well it did say 'insert here'...

I wonder if an ipad mini would mean a drop in iPod touch prices.
 
addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2012-08-18, 23:07

I'm sold. iPad Air. Fantastic. Crazy thin and light. Forgoes Retina for exactly the same reason we won't see the MacBook Air get it for now-- the focus is on size and weight.

One thing's for sure: if Apple does this, and it costs $300 or less, the slightly stirring Android tablet market is dead, dead, dead. There's just no reason whatsoever to choose a Nexus 7 over what's being described here (and I think what's being described is pretty spot on). Outside of "I hate Apple and all her works, may she burn in hell", but that's not that big a segment, despite being noisy.

Surface is still a wild card, of course, but I'm sure not convinced that Microsoft's "no compromises except for certain huge compromises which are probably going to confuse the hell out of you" is going to pay off, at least not for RT tablets.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
 
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-08-21, 09:20

I have two colleagues using Google's Nexus tablet. It's really rather impressive and convenient. It fits into a coat pocket, a hoodie, and most pieces of urban outwear, or a purse, a murse, a fanny pack; in my car's various cubby holes, arm rest, door pocket etc... The screen is good. Web pages look good. It play's nicely with my hotspots. It isn't fidgety. It's a great copy of the original - and it has good app support that should only get better...*

If Apple is concerned about anything, and the lawsuits flying back and forth seem to be evidence that they are, the Nexus/Android is it. The last time someone had a good enough copy of an Apple product, it was Win95 bringing MacOS to the masses. Relatively speaking, Nexus/Android is a stronger copy of iPad/iOS than what happened with desktop OSes in 1995.

IMHO, Apple can't launch a cheaper, smaller, thinner, and newer iPad soon enough. Don't get me wrong. I prefer iPad overall, but Google is playing the long game here. Their products should only get better.

.........................................
 
torifile
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2012-08-24, 05:24

I posted this in the iPhone thread, but I'll post it here, too, since it's relevant. Gruber is of the opinion that the iPad air will be announced in Oct along with the iPod updates. Dalrymple has agreed with him. When those 2 guys agree on something, it's pretty much a done deal.

Me? I don't buy it. To put the iPad at the typically iPod show, just seems odd to me. But those guys aren't wrong when they're being that specific. BTW, I believe that the iPad air will kill it this season. I love my iPad but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
 
Capella
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2012-08-24, 08:38

This week I've had a chance to play with two devices; the iPad and the Nexus 7. I've seen people with iPads and I'm familiar with iOS from the phone and touches, but I'd never really had an extended amount of time with the iPad before. But they were available in LaGuardia to fiddle with, so I fiddled with one. And my floormate has a free Nexus 7 for Android development from Android camp. Anyway, my consensus is that I can see myself with a tablet in the future now (and before I would have said that there was no way in hell), as long as I pick up a nice physical keyboard to go with it. Also, that 7" is a beautiful size. I would prefer a Nexus 7 size over a current iPad size any day. Maybe I just have a thing for small.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
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zippy
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2012-08-24, 10:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capella View Post
Maybe I just have a thing for small.
That's what he said.
 
Brave Ulysses
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-08-24, 10:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I posted this in the iPhone thread, but I'll post it here, too, since it's relevant. Gruber is of the opinion that the iPad air will be announced in Oct along with the iPod updates. Dalrymple has agreed with him. When those 2 guys agree on something, it's pretty much a done deal.

Me? I don't buy it. To put the iPad at the typically iPod show, just seems odd to me. But those guys aren't wrong when they're being that specific. BTW, I believe that the iPad air will kill it this season. I love my iPad but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
Does it make more sense if it is iPods being released at an iPad mini show?
 
torifile
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2012-08-24, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Does it make more sense if it is iPods being released at an iPad mini show?
I suppose so.

But here's what I don't get - if the iPad air isn't announced at the Sept 12th show, the major story coming out of that show will be... how the iPad air wasn't announced. If the only reason for it not to be announced there is to manage press, I think it would be a bad miscalculation to think that having 2 shows would be a good idea.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
 
Brave Ulysses
BANNED
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-08-24, 11:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I suppose so.

But here's what I don't get - if the iPad air isn't announced at the Sept 12th show, the major story coming out of that show will be... how the iPad air wasn't announced. If the only reason for it not to be announced there is to manage press, I think it would be a bad miscalculation to think that having 2 shows would be a good idea.
Yea. It strikes me as weird at this point too for that reason. But Gruber has a very valid point about sharing the stage.


Overall, it seems to me that Apple has really dropped the ball with managing expectations and leaks this time around. I fear what all these leaks have done to sales the past month and for the next month. iPhone sales are surely tanking. And I would not be surprised if iPad sales start to suffer, especially if an iPad mini is not announced Sep 12 and speculation is allowed to run rampant for another month.
 
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