[PB PM]

Yeah the different models can be confusing. 1-2 series are light weight and portable, but don't have a big load capacity. 3 series are average, 4-5 series are high end. I think Thoms tripod guide has details that will help.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by Matsu I need a Gitzo tripod primer. So many models, I can't keep them all straight.

Perhaps the chart here will help.

Originally Posted by PB PM Yeah the different models can be confusing. 1-2 series are light weight and portable, but don't have a big load capacity. 3 series are average, 4-5 series are high end.

Gitzo 3-series Systematic tripods are really pretty big, by most people's standards. They don't look like the tripods you see in the mall. People are surprised by the large size of my GT3531S, even photographer friends. I guess wildlife and landscape photographers would be more used to large tripods, but from where I'm standing, the GT3531S is pretty darned big! Chunky. 5-series Systematics are just crazy: you really need to see one of these in person before considering a purchase. Serious dedication is needed to drag around a Gitzo 5-series, or even just store it in a city apartment.

I use my GT3531S with an Arca-Swiss monoball Z1 (also surprisingly large to the uninitiated, but with wonderful precision, quality, and locking power), Wimberley C-12 screw clamp (superb), and Markins LN-700 and P300U plates (I usually prefer the unobtrusiveness of the P300U, so do consider whether you really need an L-plate). This setup, carefully researched for my needs, obviously cost a fortune, but I'm really happy with it. And it should last a long time.

P.S. You can just about see the above tripod setup here. That's a D300S, for scale. The tripod is fully collapsed. Later, I'll take some proper photos of my tripod setup.

[PB PM]

No doubt the Gitzo GT 3531S is a big tripod, compared to the Silk and low end Manfrotto stuff most people use, but I don't think it is much larger than the 055 XPROB, which due to the centre column is taller. They are still different classes of tripod. I'll post a pic of my tripods side by side, once the Gitzo arrives, so people can compare them.

[Matsu]

Thanks for the diagrams guys. I've read that over buying the weight capacity is a good idea. I don't imagine putting huge weight on it. Maybe one day a 300 f/2.8 or a 200 f/2, but that's about it. It's just that he extra mass, stability and dampening probably help. I wonder about aluminium tripods. Just from other sports equipment - bike and hockey gear - there seem to be some properties that make aluminium less desirable in a tripod application. It's light stiff and strong, but doesn't necessarily quell vibration that effectively. Wood, properly engineered would seem t be the best for that.

The Gitzo systematic tripods have fat legs - but they're lighter than they look, I wonder how the wall thickness compares to other brands tubes? I imagine the wide cross section legs in carbon fiber are good at dampening vibrations while staying stiff and light - lots of material surface area to dissipate/absorb vibration. Could it be that a real advantage of carbon fiber isn't so much the strength to weight (though this can be significant) but rather it's other dampening properties?

I wandered around Henry's the other day just tapping on tripod tubes, and there's an audible difference between aluminium and carbon fiber of course, but also between different carbon tubes. Basalt seemed interesting as well. Not as light, but similar deadness in my admittedly unscientific tapping tests. Maybe it's not the fibers so much as the resins that really contribute to the favorable properties of composite tripods? I wonder when someone will incorporate a visco-elastic layer into the lay-up of their tripod tubes?

[PB PM]

The walls of the 6X CF tubes found in modern Gitzo tripods is less than a 1mm tick, I read something about it being .77mm tick or something crazy like that. CF has many advantages, weight, strength, less vibration (Tests of I've seen show that a Gitzo CF tripod absorb impact in less than 3-4 seconds, while high end aluminum models take 7-10 seconds, or more), and best of all (IMO) it doesn't get cold to the touch. Yup, I almost think that will be the best part, shooting wildlife when it is 0ºC or colder with aluminum sucks, even with gloves on it draws all the heat from your hands.

[Dorian Gray]

Here are my beautiful Gitzos, or gizmos, as my girlfriend mockingly calls them when she gets tired of their clutter:



The big one is the GT3531S Systematic, with Arca-Swiss Z1 head, Wimberley C-12 quick-release clamp, Markins P300U camera plate, and Nikon D300S camera. The lens is a mid-eighties 50 mm f/1.8 AI-S "long-nose". Compare its diameter with elements of the tripods to get a sense of scale.

The little one is a GT1541T Traveler, a 4-section reversible tripod that weighs less than 1 kg. By reversible, I mean the legs fold up above the head for packing. You raise the column as far as it goes, reverse the legs, and if you've chosen a suitably narrow head, it fits snugly between the legs. The advantage is the overall length is reduced to barely more than the length of the legs themselves. The head I chose was the Markins Q3 Traveler with screw clamp, which was designed specifically for reversible Gitzo Traveler tripods.

If I had unlimited money and space, I'd complete a dream team with a tall 5-series Systematic and geared head (Arca-Swiss d4 or C1? Manfrotto 400 or 405? Dunno.). I have no real need for that, though! The two I have serve me wonderfully.

I prefer screw clamps to lever clamps. They take a moment longer to free the camera plate, but I like the feeling of security you get from screwing the clamp shut over the plate, and feeling the tension feedback. With a lever clamp you're relying on its jaws precisely matching the width of the plate: potentially problematic, especially if you mix Arca-Swiss-compatible brands as I've done.

Carbon fibre is great stuff for tripods. If you had to pick ideal applications for carbon fibre, tripods would be high on the list. The material is light, stiff, vibration-resistant, corrosion-resistant, warm to the touch, and rugged enough to allow thin walls to take a hit without failing. I like it.

[PB PM]

I'm having a tough time deciding on a head. The Arca-Swiss Z1 I can order (in Canada) only has the mono ball. Do you have to buy the quick release separately to replace it or are there different models? Frankly, it is over what I'd want to spend ($498 before taxes) anyway. Nobody in Canada carries Markins that I can find, so they are out too. That leaves the Kirk BH-1, BH-3, and the Acratech GV2. I was kind of shocked to find that Henry's (biggest camera dealer in Canada) does not carry any of the high end tripod heads (Kirk, Acratech, RSS, Markins or Arca-Swiss). One of the smaller Calgary based companies does carry Acratech, Kirk and Arca-Swiss, and I've had good dealings with them so I'll likely go that route rather than ordering from B&H, which would actually be a lot more expensive once you factor in shipping to the west coast and duty.

About the Arca -Swiss plates, how do you pick what is best? I know you are better off getting specific plates for your camera, and I can easily do that. I generally shoot with the D700, but the only problem I have with getting specific pates is that nobody makes plates that are designed for my GF-2. Why not use a universal plate that I can use with both of my cameras and my one lens with a tripod collar, does it really make the much of a difference? Also why not buy the plates by the same manufacture as the head?

[Dorian Gray]

I found it at least as confusing as you, PB PM. I know Arca-Swiss has multiple ball heads, to start with. The Z1 is the sensible choice for most people. It has massive locking power and stability, even though it's reasonably lightweight.

The Z1 is available in either single-panorama (sp) or double-panorama (dp) models. The dp models can pan the camera from below the head, but also from above the head, immediately below the clamp. This is apparently a big deal for levelling stitched panoramic shots. I rarely do those, so I opted for the cheaper sp model, which pans only below the head.

Then you have to choose a clamp style (unless you want a simple 1/4" or 3/8" threaded disc, which is also available. I wasn't able to find just the head alone, so I went with one of these, then replaced the threaded disc with a Wimberley clamp). Arca-Swiss offers two main clamp types: the industry-standard "Arca-Swiss" style (as supported by brands like RRS, Markins, Kirk, Wimberley, etc.), and a newer alternative called monoball®Fix. Arca-Swiss's "Arca-Swiss" style clamps are called Quickset.

You're probably interested in the Quickset models, unless you want to lock yourself into the proprietary monoball®Fix system. However, some Arca-Swiss clamps have a double-decker arrangement for both the narrower monoball®Fix plates and the standard Quickset plates. This means you can use both types of plate with one clamp. These clamps may be very good, but I was concerned about them being fussy to use, so I opted for a simpler Wimberley clamp.

To add to the confusion, Quickset clamps are available in classic and flipLock® styles. Classic clamps are screw clamps, while flipLock® clamps use a lever release. See my previous post for why I prefer screw-type quick-release clamps.

My recommendation for the Z1 is to get it with a Quickset classic clamp, or get a 1/4" threaded disc and replace it with a third-party clamp. If you can really find it without a disc or clamp at all, even better: you just need to add a third-party clamp then.

Availability of this stuff is terrible in Europe too. I couldn't find most of the American brands at all. I had to order the Wimberley clamp from a place in the south of France. Couldn't find it even in Paris! But since you're in North America, you might want to check out the Really Right Stuff (RRS) ball heads, which get good reviews.

That said, after having seen just how good the Z1 is, I doubt whether anything else is quite as well engineered. The precision and locking power are incredible. I can lock the ball solid with my little finger on one side of the knob. With half a turn the knob still feels light, yet I could already swing myself from the clamp! I can't even imagine how solidly it locks after screwing the knob finger-tight.

The reasons to get camera-specific plates are:

• if you get an L-plate, it can be designed for the precise size and contours of the camera. This greatly reduces bulk and weight, allowing you to keep the plate attached all the time, even when not using the tripod. Then, when you want to use the tripod, you can do so quickly without adding a plate.
  
• even if it's not an L-plate, a camera-specific plate can fit more snugly and wrap around the camera somewhat to reduce slippage. See the P300U plate below, which has lips that fit the base of the D300S.
  
• if you have plates for all your cameras, you don't need to waste time moving them around when you use a different camera.

Personally, having tried an L-plate on my D700, I'm not sure it's worth it for me. It's pricey, a bit bulky and unergonomic, and my Z1 and Q3T heads work fine tilted over at 90 degrees. I prefer the landscape orientation anyway, so rarely shoot portrait-orientation shots. If you're hesitating about the price, definitely get a standard plate first. At worst, you can get an L-plate later if you find the standard plate limiting.

For your GF2 you could get a flat non-camera-specific plate, like the Markins P20 I have on my LX3 below. Below are photos of my plates, all Markins. Markins generally make the lightest plates; they use a slightly different and arguably better alloy than the others. You can see my D300S plate is far less obtrusive than my D700 plate, because it isn't an L-plate.

LX3:





D300S:





D700:

[PB PM]

Thanks for the tips. I don't think I'll be getting Arca-Swiss or RRS gear, I'm hoping to keep the budget for the head under $400 Cdn, before taxes, and none of the Arca-Swiss or RRS heads that would work for my gear are in that range. I found that even from B&H an Arca-Swiss head would cost nearly $500 once you throw in shipping taxes and duty. I'm sure they are great heads, but I think a Kirk or Arctech head will be more than enough for my needs. If I get Kirk then I just get the Kirk branded plates and I'm good to go.

[GSpotter]

I use a ballhead which I bought without any plate, just a 3/8" screw. I then bought a Markins plate (via PhotoProShopo.com) and mounted it myself.

The main point of the quick-release plates is to use the gear quickly, so I'd advise to get a small generic plate for your GF2 (you just have to check that the plate is small enough that it doesn't block the battery compartment) if you really use the GF2 regularly with the tripod).

Before I got my D700, a had a D2Hs. I used it with a RRS L-plate which I found at a super price on either ebay or at some photo forum. This stuff rarely pops up, but if you are not in a hurry, you might to want to check there, too. Esp. the plates are only a piece of metal, so the risk of buying used is rather minimal.

BTW: Do you know the Wimberley ball head recommendations?

[PB PM]

Interesting head guide GSpotter. From the looks of that guide the Kirk BH-1 would be just about right for me. I cannot see myself using anything bigger than a 500mm F4. Sure my dream lens would be the 600mm F4, but I'm trying to stay realistic. In any case I would most likely get a gimbal head for anything that size anyway.

So I figure I'll get the Kirk BH-1, Kirk plate for the D700 and a universal plate to cover the GF2 and my 300mm F4. I'll be adding a specific pate for the 300mm F4 later. I'm not too worried about the size of the universal plate, I don't shoot with the GF2 for extended periods of time on a tripod. When I do it is often mounted on my Joby flexible tripod.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by PB PM So I figure I'll get the Kirk BH-1, Kirk plate for the D700

This or this? I recommend the former unless you know you want an L-plate. Personally, I've yet to be convinced by the balance of benefits and drawbacks of L-plates, although lots of people obviously love them.

[PB PM]

The first one, I am not looking to get an L plate. I don't shoot verticals enough to justify getting one.

[GSpotter]

I wouldn't recommend the Kirk L-bracket anyway: It has a fixed position. In case you would want to tether the camera (e.g. for portrait shots), you would need another spacer block. The Markins bracket (and I think the RRS bracket, too) can be moved a bit sideways to accomodate the cables.

[PB PM]

Tethered shooting isn't an issue, I don't do studio shooting. Thanks for all the tips Dorian and GSpotter, I think I've been able to make a logical choice for my needs and budget with your help.

[Matsu]

So, flip locks or twist locks? I kinda like the profile of twist locks - less mechanical stuff to catch and/or break. On the other hand, flip locks seem quite a bit faster. Are g-locks superior to other anti-rotation twist locks?

I kinda-sorta feel like flips make more sense for a monopod where you want to move about or adjust quickly, and twists could be better for a tripod where you're taking some time to set-up anyway. I'm not sure where this leaves the idea of a travel tripod, which you may want to set-up and take-down fast. Flip locks might work faster, but twist locks pack better...

[PB PM]

I hate the flip locks on the legs of my current Manfrotto. They are fine in summer, but in winter you need to take off your gloves to use them. If they get moisture inside they also freeze up.

I have only used the twist locks on Gittos tripods (nobody around here keeps Gitzo tripods stocked), but they seem nice enough.

[Matsu]

I found these, I thought I'd post for you.

Arca Swiss P0 and P1.

Here's the info on the P0 The P1 is a larger version of same.

Has a couple of neat features for the price. By turning the ball head upside down, you get the benefit of levelling for panoramas without any extra attachments. It's light. It uses some new clamp system "Slidefix" and/or Arca Swiss standard. I think there's a facility for flipping the Z1 around as well, but this might get the job done cheaper and lighter, if t fits the limits of what you need.

There are some youtube videos you can also check out

[PB PM]

Interesting, I saw that head at the dealer I'm looking to buy from, but I haven't seen any reviews.

I know the Arcatech ball heads can also be flipped for panno work. I've never shot pannos myself since I don't have any software to stich the images together with.

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by PB PM Interesting, I saw that head at the dealer I'm looking to buy from, but I haven't seen any reviews.

There's a german test of the P0 (together with lots of other ballheads). The google-translated version should be useable. There's also a positive german videoreview where you can see the head in action with a Novoflex plate (having the perfect size) and a Kirk plate (which the reviewer recommends over the Novoflex due to the spirit level, which makes the panorama function of the P0 more easy to use).

[Matsu]

Funny set of reviews, they rate the Sirui head very highly. I tried them out - because they're North American distribution is near my city. I found all their ball heads fussy. I still like their legs though. A friend has them with an RRS ball head, and he really likes the combination. I wish I read German, I not quite sure what 5 metrics they're using to test, though the sag test gives a better impression of ball head capacity.

The P0 seems very light - about 280 g - might be nice on a travel tripod.

[PB PM]

Yeah, light weight for a head that can carry that much weight. Reviews on B&H say the rated load capacity of the P0 is a laughable, and wouldn't recommend using anything bigger than a 70-200 f2.8 or 300mm F4. Some also said it wasn't very smooth in operation. All the reviews said they really liked the knobless design though.

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by Matsu I wish I read German, I not quite sure what 5 metrics they're using to test, though the sag test gives a better impression of ball head capacity.

It's good to have germany speaking people on the board then ...
Qualität und Haptik = Quality & haptics (feeling to the touch)
Ausstattung = Features
Haltefähigkeit = Stability (lit. ability to keep something still)
Dämpfung = damping
Gewicht = weight

[Matsu]

Which reviews are you looking at? The B&H user reviews look quite positive for the most part. Just comparing that extensive German review against manufacturer's claims suggests that advertised locking strength and real world differ from head to head...

There's the larger P1, but it doesn't have a detent for verticals, and has a separate friction setting.

Though it doesn't necessarily mean that it all works well, I'm quite taken with the design of both. The P0 does a couple of things that really ought to be on more ball heads. The upside-down arrangement for starters - super easy tripod levelling, and the camera body close to the centre of the ball. Then the unified friction/locking twist collar. The first thing I noticed in this video. Was that you could adjust friction and locking from either side, with either hand, in any position. That's so fluid and good - they should put it on their rightside-up ball heads as well. Rails mount directly and low: just one piece and you can easily make your nodal setting, and it all mounts close to the head - doesn't get unduly tall and floppy. It ticks a lot of boxes - travel, single row pano, macro convenience too. And not too expensive either - 299 with your choice of clamp.

I'd want to see it head to head with the Acratech ultimate to get a better sense of it's relative locking power.

If they made a stronger version with a vertical detent it might be perfect. I wonder if it sets up well as a double pano or if that would put too much slop in the tripod head?

[PB PM]

I'd like to see Acratech build a head with more load capacity. To be honest in terms of design and weight I like them best. The gimbal position on them makes them attractive to me. The 11.5KG max weight rating keeps me leaning towards the Kirk or Arca-Swiss heads.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by Matsu So, flip locks or twist locks? I kinda like the profile of twist locks - less mechanical stuff to catch and/or break. On the other hand, flip locks seem quite a bit faster. Are g-locks superior to other anti-rotation twist locks?

I agree the snag-free design of twist locks is great. I also think they're faster than flip locks, contrary to your experience. I guess it depends on how you use them, to an extent.

Here are the locks on my Gitzos:



These are G-Locks. Gitzo says these grip better as the load is increased on the tripod, because compression within the lock is directed into a tightening action. I don't think photographers were often struggling with collapsing tripods, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

However, the G-Lock has another advantage over the previous generation: it's much shorter. This greatly assists its intended use, since it allows you to grab multiple locks in a closed fist. With the previous generation, several locks could become too long to enclose in the hand.

To extend the legs, you just grip all the locks simultaneously in your hand, e.g. two or three locks for my tripods above. Gripping them, they're unlocked at once with a small anti-clockwise twist (about 1/8th of a turn is plenty). Extend the legs and tighten each lock individually with another 1/8th turn. Because of the Anti Leg Rotation feature, the locking order doesn't matter, i.e. you can apply torque to a lower lock before tightening an upper lock, since the upper section won't rotate even if it hasn't yet been locked.

The Anti Leg Rotation feature also helps when you're packing the tripod, because it lets you tighten all the locks at once, without worrying about the lower ones not tightening due to rotation of the upper sections. As you can imagine, tightening all the locks for packing is the work of a moment — definitely quicker than messing about with individual flip locks.

Gitzo also makes a big deal about the locks being temperature independent, which they do seem to be. The lock tightness of my old Velbon flip-lock tripod changed hugely depending on ambient temperature. But perhaps all twist locks are by their nature temperature independent, since you can always tighten them a little bit more if needed.

The Gitzo leg locks work very well, though I don't know if they're any better than similar designs from other companies.

[Matsu]

For the foreseeable future, my heaviest combination is likely to be a 70-200 f/2.8 and some FX DSLR. I need a little height to keep interior perspectives straight with wide lenses as well. I can see using a 14-24 also.

So, I wonder... think a 2542L and P0 combination can deal with that? Prices for everything below can be very similar $600-900 depending on sales. While the ultimate loading capacities differ, the dimensions don't seem to different from the 2 and 3 series? I didn't really pay enough attention to them side by side to judge how the overall girth really effects transportability.

Is 2 series portable enough? Or is it not a big difference relative to the 3?

The 2 series weighs about 3lbs. The 3 series weighs about 4-4.7lbs. The 2 holds about 26lbs. The 3 series holds about 40lbs.

Mountaineer models:
the 2542L - 24" closed, extends up to about 60" with the column down and 69" column up.
the 3541 - 21.65" closed, extends to 52" (column down) 63.39" (column up)
the 3541L - 23.62 in, extends to 59" (column down) and 71.26" (column up)

Systematic Models: (no centre column)
The 3541XLS packs down to 27" and extends to nearly 78"
The 3541LS packs down to 21" and extends to about 58"

And the local brand:
Sirui m3204 a 4 section unit that opens to about 58"-70" (column down-up) and closes to 23" column also reverses for packing. Weighs 3.75lb. Holds about 40lbs.

[GSpotter]

I recently saw a very positive (german) review video on the Sirui M3204. If I knew this tripod before buying the 3541LS, I might have bought this one instead.

Don't count too much on the middle column. Esp. with an FX camera and a heavy lens it will start to wobble really soon when you extend it.

[Dorian Gray]

I don't find my Series 3 very portable, mostly because it has a large diameter at the top, but also because it weighs a lot with the Z1. You'd have to be moderately determined, or at least a good deal fitter than I, to carry this combo on the side of a backpack. That said, some people hike with field cameras, so one person's portable is another's step too far.

Since I planned from the outset to have two tripods, I chose a Series 1 and Series 3. If I had to choose one tripod only, I'd probably go for a Series 2; however, I don't have to worry about stabilising a heavy f/2.8 zoom or long telephoto. I'd honestly err on the sturdy size if I did have to consider lenses like that.

Load ratings are too simplistic. I'm sure my Series 3 and Z1 would support the weight of me, but I wouldn't feel overly stable perched on them!

Consider also that any "excess" stability in a big tripod could be put to good use by allowing you the flexibility to shoot in a moderate breeze, shoot faster by not needing a remote release, etc.

[Matsu]

Thanks to the local connection I can swing the Sirui legs at a very good price.

A fourth option might be something from Induro, between the 214-314-414, they seem to have comparable options, but at least in my market, their prices are a little higher. These also get good reviews and look very sturdy, though they aren't the lightest CF tripods going.