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Moogs
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2012-03-01, 23:09

Looks like chips have been in the channel for a while and a embargo ending next week. Therefore Mac Pros could be announced at any time.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/01/...ips-next-week/

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-03-01, 23:15

I think Apple should put USB 3 alongside Thunderbolt on the new Pro, just to confuse everybody.
 
Eugene
careful with axes
 
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2012-03-02, 01:03

USB 3.0 would only be available via the ASMedia or Renesas controllers. None of the current LGA2011 chipsets have built-in USB 3.0 support...
 
Moogs
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2012-03-02, 10:55

I would like USB 3 just to make sure I have built-in compatibility with my MAXimus backup, which I currently have to use a PCI card / driver for, and which doesn't always boot / mount normally.

I don't know if it's just my specific computer or what but for a while now I've had problems with any kind of Firewire, USB, USB 3 drive mounting when I plug it in. The guys over at OWC tell me I should "turn the drive on first, then the computer"... which is BS. I should be able to turn on the drive at any time and have it mount correctly, including doing it consecutive times during a short period.

Not sure if these are OS problems or machine problems but they're annoying as hell.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-03-02, 15:55

I was actually kidding. Can you imagine the outcry if Apple put USB3 solely on the Mac Pro?

Charging a thousand dollar premium for USB3 would serve to make Thunderbolt look like a bargain....
 
hmurchison
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2012-03-02, 19:50

It's interesting that Intel's interest in USB seems to have waned with the continued irrelevance of AMD.

USB being a technology that leverage the CPU was a great way for Intel to upsell faster CPU. Want to reach higher I/O speeds in USB ...get a faster CPU.

Intel isn't driven by the same motives so USB 3.0 has had a real tepid launch

omgwtfbbq
 
Moogs
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2012-03-02, 22:24

Frank... I didn't mean solely I just mean I'd like support for it. They can go all Thunderbolt on us all they want but a couple USB 3 ports would be nice too.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-03-02, 23:53

I think Intel understands the Post-PC world has no need for all the features provided by their PCH.

For example, I do not think Apple uses the integrated NIC on the majority of its Macs (possibly all of them.) Apple most certainly does not use all 12 USB 2.0 channels or 6 SATA ports on most of its Macs. Furthermore the PCH is no longer necessary as a PCIe multiplexer as more/wider PCIe lanes become standard on the CPU...
 
Dorian Gray
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2012-03-03, 10:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
I don't know if it's just my specific computer or what but for a while now I've had problems with any kind of Firewire, USB, USB 3 drive mounting when I plug it in. The guys over at OWC tell me I should "turn the drive on first, then the computer"... which is BS. I should be able to turn on the drive at any time and have it mount correctly, including doing it consecutive times during a short period.

Not sure if these are OS problems or machine problems but they're annoying as hell.
For what it's worth, I've also had random problems with my LaCie d2 Quadra external drives not immediately mounting on my Mac mini (via FireWire 800). Seems a bit random. However, when they're mounted they're rock-solid. I'm daisy-chaining drives, of course, and they're also all encrypted, which means I have to turn them on in the right order and enter passwords sequentially. Heck, thinking about it, it's a wonder it ever works!
 
Moogs
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2012-03-03, 15:04

Well my problems have been related to single directly connected drive, and varying the port hasn't mattered. IOW, If I try port 1 a bunch of times I get just as many random failures as port 2 - on either the drive or the Mac. Although strangely, if I start up a drive and it spins up but won't mount, and then I swap the port on the back of the drive or Mac, sometimes it will then mount. As if to taunt me a second time...



This is one of those "attention to detail" areas Apple never pays any attention to (sort of like the Finder quirks we've had all these years). With the mountain of cash they're sitting on now, I'll never understand why they don't hire a few people whose mission in life is to squash these usability annoyance bugs and add polish across the product-line. Insanity. They could solve all of these problems in 6 months probably.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Moogs
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2012-03-06, 21:12

I give you Sandy Bridges of Power.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5553/t...ge-for-servers
 
Moogs
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2012-04-02, 20:20

Not Mac Pro related per se but the addition of anti-reflective glass on iMac screens would address one major complaint of pro users regarding iMacs. Should they become more expandable in their next offering I fear that might signal the end...

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/02/...neration-imac/

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
chucker
 
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2012-04-03, 06:36

Indeed. And if they manage to cram that technology into their MacBook Pros, I might consider going glass the next time.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-03, 07:45

What kind of expandability could be added to an iMac to make it a suitable Mac Pro replacement?

All I can think of are more thunderbolt ports, USB3, and more on-board storage, but the storage would make the iMac much bulkier, and somewhat redundant considering the availability of thunderbolt. Maybe Apple should make their own external storage solutions, something like Drobos, in 2, 4, and 8 bay flavours?

.........................................
 
Frank777
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2012-04-03, 09:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
What kind of expandability could be added to an iMac to make it a suitable Mac Pro replacement?

All I can think of are more thunderbolt ports, USB3, and more on-board storage, but the storage would make the iMac much bulkier, and somewhat redundant considering the availability of thunderbolt. Maybe Apple should make their own external storage solutions, something like Drobos, in 2, 4, and 8 bay flavours?
With Thunderbolt and USB3 you wouldn't need any more onboard storage. Just a user replaceable hard drive.
 
Dave
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2012-04-03, 10:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
What kind of expandability could be added to an iMac to make it a suitable Mac Pro replacement?

All I can think of are more thunderbolt ports, USB3, and more on-board storage, but the storage would make the iMac much bulkier, and somewhat redundant considering the availability of thunderbolt. Maybe Apple should make their own external storage solutions, something like Drobos, in 2, 4, and 8 bay flavours?
A standard PCIe-based upgradeable video card, a non-integrated monitor, more RAM slots, and dual or quad CPUs.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-03, 11:35

Dave, I should have been clearer, I was referring to the iMac in its traditional AIO form. Personally, I'd love a smaller, more affordable tower that has just enough room for extra internal storage.

Frank is probably right, user serviceable HDD, SDD, alongside the RAM would make an "iMac" upgradeable enough - setting aside the question of acceptable system performance.

The other issue would be the display. Maybe these are reaching commodity levels. Certainly there are lost of cheap 27" and under panels out there. Many are TN, and not quite up the task of graphics work. But there are also relatively affordable IPS panel based displays, like Dell's u2711. Integrating the panel and it's circuitry might drive costs down a little more then. So, if you take about $500-700 worth of high quality display and add another $500-1000 worth of computer, you more or less get the iMac's current price range, plus a bit of a premium for the Apple-i-ness of it all.

.........................................
 
Moogs
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2012-04-03, 16:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
What kind of expandability could be added to an iMac to make it a suitable Mac Pro replacement?
They'd have to do at least a partial redesign but the short answer they can't make a true replacement. What they can do is make a version with a hot-swappable GPU that's easy to get at, more RAM banks that are easy to get at and a second HD that's easy to get at. If they did that it would effectively kill the Mac Pro IMO or turn it into a complete niche product with only one or two super-expensive variants being offered (12-core and 16-core maybe both with max available clock rate for those configurations), 12 RAM slots, Thunderbolt galore, USB 3, etc.

And don't get me wrong, if the new iMac had this level of expandability AND a much better (wide gamut) screen, plus the anti-reflective stuff, I'd at least consider it as a replacement. Especially if it could drive my existing monitor too. I'm not such a Mac Pro snob that I wouldn't consider switching IF the right conditions were met. But I don't think they'll go that far, and at the same time might still EOL the Mac Pro, which would piss me off.

At that point I'd probably opt for the Macbook Pro with the best CPU / GPU combo and drive my big screen from that.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
chucker
 
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2012-04-03, 16:32

Hot-swappable? I assume you mean just swappable at all. Hot-swappable GPU sounds awesome, don't get me wrong, but seems a little excessive.
 
Moogs
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2012-04-03, 16:45

Yah I just meant not soldered onto the board. Pop open a little hatch in the back, press a button to release, pull it out, put a new one in, close the hatch.

BTW I didn't realize until today Mac Rumors has subdomains for specific products so you can skip all the other stuff.

http://macpro.macrumors.com/

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Moogs
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2012-04-03, 16:58

Hate to say it but this makes me wish Apple licensed to HP for Workstations...
http://www.hp.com/united-states/camp...l#.T3txqu3Rj6s
(click the product tour)

pretty impressive although the industrial design is still more complicated than a Mac Pro.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Frank777
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2012-04-03, 17:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Hot-swappable GPU sounds awesome, don't get me wrong, but seems a little excessive.
 
Frank777
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2012-04-03, 17:49

The real problem for the Mac Pro is that Print Publishing and Video Production now work largely on an iMac.

If you want to see a souped up Mac Pro in the future, somebody has to find a market for it other than Photoshop gurus in an age of RGB websites.

Thunderbolt now essentially offers PCI expansion to the Mac Mini and iMac.

So if the next iMac has a non-reflective display, 32 GB RAM, three PCI slots and Thunderbolt hard drive expansion:
What are you going to use the Mac Pro for?
 
psmith2.0
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2012-04-03, 18:57

A couple of those are pretty big "ifs" though, aren't they?

I don't know what's going to happen. I can see the Mac Pro going away this year, and I can also see it staying around forever, getting updated once every 16-22 months (in other words, business as usual).
 
Frank777
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2012-04-03, 22:49

1. Non-reflective displays are the current rumour du jour. That's really the only iffy part.

2. The current machines do 16GB, so I'm assuming the new chips will push that one further.

3. The expansion chassis for PCI cards have already been announced.

4. Thunderbolt arrives on PCs this month so hard drives are about to be more affordable.

Your next iMac is a Pro machine, whether you know it or not.
It's going to frustrate gamers and Photoshop gurus who want to change their GPU, but who else really does that?
 
psmith2.0
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2012-04-03, 23:34

I'm not disagreeing that the iMac is a capable machine (I'd choose one over a tower any day). I just wasn't aware of those components. I thought you meant the slots would be built in.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-04, 08:08

The current iMacs support 32GB when you use 8GB modules, and together with an SSD, they can probably meet most memory intensive needs. Besides expansion, pros will probably want faster CPU and GPu combos. Dual CPUs are probably out of the question, but a 6 or even 8 core chip would be welcome.

.........................................
 
psmith2.0
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2012-04-04, 08:18

The other thing too is the display. Don't demanding, high-end users get very picky about their displays, and sometimes spend quite a bit for them?

Are the ones in iMacs good enough for them? I don't know, I'm asking.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-04, 13:22

I think there's many that are picky, but a very great many that are simply finding a good quality IPS display to be sufficient for 90% of their needs. I see the iMac on desks all over print shops and graphics design shops. I'm told it calibrates well and doesn't shift too much, and people are mostly happy. Where I take some digital photography classes (the college recently updated its program descriptions to specifically note 'digital'; 'film' is only covered in a class under 'alternative processes' now) most of the instructors use an iMac or Macbook Pro. There's only one real orthodoxy on displays: IPS plus calibration. People seem very content to meet that standard. Some have new cinema displays, some have old Apple 30", some have Dell.

For me, I really would prefer the option of wider gamut, just to be sure I could see all of the potential output on some devices, but I know it probably wouldn't make a huge difference to the finished product - black and white inkjet, and chromogenic colour prints.

So, with a constrained budget, I know, for me, a Mac Pro is out of the question. Is it better to go for a high quality monitor and a mac mini, or an iMac? I think it depends on how quickly we have to chew through files.

.........................................
 
PB PM
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2012-04-04, 13:38

I think you'd have to be working with some very hefty files to bog down any of the modern Macs (MBA/Mini aside due to RAM limitations). The mini is a good option, as long as you can get by with 8GB of RAM. For me, I find iMac to have the sweet spot, since it reduces desk clutter, making it far easier to work with. Even with the current glossy screens you can buy anti-glare covers to fix reflection problems.
 
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