[thegeriatric]

This looks interesting, Apple finally opening up to its loyal user base! Take a look.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/...-to-all-comers

Does this mean we can try out beta's of whatever follows Mavericks as well? That would be really

[PB PM]

Apparently this is not meant to replace the semi-closed Developer/Appleseed programs have been running for years. According to Apple the open testing will not get all the betas that are available to developers and Appleseed testers. My guess is that they won't be handing out early, possibly unstable releases.

Sure is a step in the right direction though.

[Brave Ulysses]

Strange. Don't really think this was high on the list of demands and I don't really see much advantage for Apple.

[PB PM]

No advantage to unpaid beta testing? The more people you have testing the, theoretically, greater the chance of bugs being spotted. Even if the average person who signs up submits no active information, Apple still gets crash reports if nothing else.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by PB PM No advantage to unpaid beta testing? The more people you have testing the, theoretically, greater the chance of bugs being spotted. Even if the average person who signs up submits no active information, Apple still gets crash reports if nothing else.

Or, the more likely some idiot will install something that has a bug, lose their data and bitch about it all over the web. "Apple's critical flaw, is your data safe?!?" type hysteria.

Dunno, I can see serious potential downsides unless you're just going to be releasing the GM's a week early to this group.

I remember how stupid people were with iOS 7 and it's beta. I can't imagine they'd be much better with their computers.

[billybobsky]

Let's look at this from a different perspective: phamaceutical companies would absolutely love to get a 'free' trial of potentially tens of thousands of users (patients?) to ensure there aren't any statistically significant but rare side effects. This program is essentially allowing Apple direct access to this sort of mammoth scale testing. There are very few downsides and a lot of potential upsides avoiding bad press at actual release dates...

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by billybobsky Let's look at this from a different perspective: phamaceutical companies would absolutely love to get a 'free' trial of potentially tens of thousands of users (patients?) to ensure there aren't any statistically significant but rare side effects. This program is essentially allowing Apple direct access to this sort of mammoth scale testing. There are very few downsides and a lot of potential upsides avoiding bad press at actual release dates...

Other than a few security issues in the past few months, Apple has had VERY few major bugs in OS X releases that have created any sort of PR problem.

So, no, I don't agree that the upsides outweigh the downsides. There is a much higher risk of prerelease software fucking up millions of people's computers/data/security, than there is with a final release.

Apple's seeding program was already extensive and seemingly sufficient based on the lack of major bugs in official releases.


So, what's the point?

[billybobsky]

I do not see millions of people using this opportunity, to be honest.

10s of thousands sure, but millions? no.

But I think you might have missed my point: major bugs aren't the issue. They will show up with small numbers of users. It is the minor cases that the current small scale class of testers cannot possibly identify that are at issue. There are a litany of these types of bugs with almost every major software/os release from every major producer. Special cases where something... like say endnote, msword, and macosx not working properly together because of some bug incorporated into the operating system (this is a real example and it sucked that for almost a year apple was playing catch up with Endnote software engineers who appropriately identified the source of the issue). These sorts of bugs are what cause people to think, or reinforce their view that Macs suck or are an expensive sacrifice. Apple has never been (in recent memory) in a position to just ignore the psychology of user bias born over the last few decades, and while Microsoft is not making things easy on themselves, the PC vs Mac ads don't seem to have stuck...

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by billybobsky I do not see millions of people using this opportunity, to be honest. 10s of thousands sure, but millions? no. But I think you might have missed my point: major bugs aren't the issue. They will show up with small numbers of users. It is the minor cases that the current small scale class of testers cannot possibly identify that are at issue. There are a litany of these types of bugs with almost every major software/os release from every major producer. Special cases where something... like say endnote, msword, and macosx not working properly together because of some bug incorporated into the operating system (this is a real example and it sucked that for almost a year apple was playing catch up with Endnote software engineers who appropriately identified the source of the issue). These sorts of bugs are what cause people to think, or reinforce their view that Macs suck or are an expensive sacrifice. Apple has never been (in recent memory) in a position to just ignore the psychology of user bias born over the last few decades, and while Microsoft is not making things easy on themselves, the PC vs Mac ads don't seem to have stuck...

Apple already had the ability to ask end users to report those issues and crashes on official releases.

I think you horribly underestimate the popularity of Apple these days and the scale of it its fan base and eagerness of its fan base for the unreleased products.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Apple has a million people sign up for OS X beta testing.

[billybobsky]

Huh. Perhaps. The way I see it, however, is that the Mac is far less popular than 'Apple', and that the 'fan base' your considering is more than likely the fan base for the mobile products (iPad/iPhone) and not the Macs. I'm not even a fan of the Mac as much as I used to be. The increasingly dated interface on OS X, a file system that gets in the way of me doing work, etc, leads me to suspect that the slowing sales of Macs is just a sign of the doldrums of that entire hardware/software side of Apple.

I will likely replace my current laptop with another Mac, but the next? Who knows? Windows is serviceable and I can build a desktop especially to my needs. I am certainly not sure laptops will be of great use for me in five years, since the only reason I own one now is to allow me to carry an internet connecting device that i can present from (hello tablet?).

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by billybobsky the slowing sales of Macs

Slowing compared to... what?

Up 4.7% year-to-year in the just released Q2 earnings call.

Q1 Y2Y PC market as a whole? -1.7% (No numbers for Q2 yet, but Apple's Q1 Y2Y Mac growth was 19%.)

I think the open beta is a fine idea. bbsky is correct, the big bugs will be squashed before this point, the signup is fairly clear on the risks, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the Recovery directions well laid out and prominently pointed to by the signup page. In fact, it's pretty nice to see the feature laid out that clearly.

[billybobsky]

Well. I guess I should say 'flat' sales... year-to-year comparisons aren't as detailed as the sales overtime, which certainly look flat compared to the rise that was seen in the mid-2000s...

But yeah, I think Apple will be fine doing this.

[alcimedes]

Now we need to place our bets.

I'm going to say that within 6 months of the open Apple program there's some major social media drama over some idiot losing their stuff somehow and blaming it on Apple's beta software.

Time will tell, but that's my bet.

[Kickaha]

You never lose by betting on stupid.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by Kickaha You never lose by betting on stupid.

I've done IT support work FAR too long to believe anything else is a real possibility.

On individual cases users might be fine, but taken as a whole it's a cesspool of ignorance, disdain, fear, presumption and voodoo.

The other day, I spent literally 2 hours with someone because they were typing in zeros where their password had lowercase "o's" in it. This is after *multiple* mentions of "you're sure you're doing an "o" and not a zero, right?"

"Oh yeah, they're on a totally separate keyboard, couldn't be doing it by accident."

The user had been having 'password' problems on her phone, computer and tablet. All three.

2 hours.

[Kickaha]

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. " Kay, MIB