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Mac Pro - 2011 and beyond
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Matsu
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2012-04-04, 18:02

I agree, which is also part of the reason I think the iMac makes the most sense for someone like me. Especially if it gets a bit better display, it mostly takes away the last outstanding concern and keeps everything neat and tidy. I'd probably spec it with the max affordable RAM, likely 3rd party 4x4GB, and an SSD for system performance and keep all my project files on some sort of external back-up system. Either USB3 (assuming they add it) or Thunderbolt based.

Not quite sure the mini is ready for 12-16-36MP RAW files. 500-800 at a time, 100-200 selected out and given very quick edits/corrections/crops etc, 40-50 of those more carefully processed and laid out for photobooks and such. That's more or less the workflow I've been practicing with 12 and 16MP files, can't wait to try 36

.........................................
 
Moogs
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2012-04-04, 19:20

Re: screens - Apple doesn't sell one that is anywhere close to wide gamut standards you see in Eizo or the better NEC screens. In fact in the recent past some of their laptop screens were not only not 10 bit, they're not even 8 bit.

Apple has always taken the "good enough to do press proofing" approach but the thing is, four color presses (like sRGB working spaces) are not capable of reproducing many colors. It's actually a pretty shitty technology where color reproduction is concerned. Many high end inkjets are far more capable in that respect, although obviously you're not going to make anything high volume on an inkjet without bankrupting yourself. So think of "press monitors" and the presses themselves as being 80s tech / standards, because that's basically what they are. So when Apple says "XYZ PDQ Press Proof Approved" that's another way of saying "this monitor is not less limiting in the colors it can display than your average magazine press".

Video someone said? Sorry but I doubt any serious video editing company is working on iMacs as their primary grading machine. They probably use them for rough cuts and general playback evaluation but for the color work they'll use a real monitor.

Again though if Apple ever makes the GPU swappable and adds room for one more drive plus a true wide-gamut screen, that's the end of the Mac Pro. And probably the beginning of a new high-end price point for iMacs around $3000+. For people who still need to use PCI slots they'll probably offer a single "psycho power user" Mac Pro configuration and price it around $5000.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
709
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2012-04-04, 23:10

True, more and more it's an RGB world, but since I've hopped from my MP to an iMac >2 yrs ago the only real beef I've had is the inability to hook up externals via eSATA. My print work hasn't been affected at all (but, I've always had the Pantone CMYK bible next to me - and if you aren't at the print shop watching the first run come off the press then you shouldn't be in the business in the first place.... that smell! ) and my video work is handled just fine by this kit.

True, there's no FC connecting, which is a pain sometimes, and nobody color corrects on an iMac anyways (I jump over to the DaVinci box for that slice of hell), but it's a perfectly capable machine for 95% of anything print or video related. The one thing I *do* think should be standard is a Blu-ray burner. Now that Steve is gone (RIP) I expect a bit of relinquishing on the obvious shit that people really want, personal objections from inside the company be damned. I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD for playback. They're like the VHS of media in this day and age. It's all Blu-ray and 720/1080p files nowadays.

So it goes.
 
Robo
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2012-04-05, 01:32

Are you talking about Blu-ray on the iMac or Mac Pro?

I think the next iMac might ditch the optical altogether, but I agree that only including DVD drives on $1200+ machines is ridiculous. Basically, if a Mac has an optical drive, it should be Blu-ray -- it's just that the only Mac with an optical drive is likely to be the Mac Pro.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-05, 05:19

Moogs, I can't figure out what an iMac design with PCI slots would have to look like, at least not an AIO iMac.

As for the rest, how does OSX handle having one display in sRGB (the iMac) and a second display in aRGB. I've never had the luxury of dual high quality displays and having to worry about color management before. Is it easy, or is there anything to worry about?

.........................................
 
chucker
 
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2012-04-05, 06:07

He's talking about external PCI Express expansion through Thunderbolt, not internal slots.
 
Matsu
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2012-04-05, 09:06

Then there's really not that much that needs to happen to make the iMac into a more "pro" machine:

1.) Upgrade the screen. Minimum matte/anti-glare set-up. Or, better, a wide gamut display.

2.) Add USB3 and even more thunderbolt ports.

3.) Upgrade CPU to 6 or 8 core BTO option.

4.) Make the internal storage as well as the RAM user accessible.

.........................................
 
Matsu
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2012-04-05, 09:52

posting error
 
nikstar101
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2012-04-05, 12:52

From my point of view, as much as i want the MacPro to continue living, ThunderBolt and a Matte screen does allow Apple the flexibility to start transferring Pro functions to the iMac.

I mean the two main reasons people pick the MacPro over the iMac is the choice of screen and the increased storage capacity. OK some people do it so they can have extra PCI cards in and all those things, but i bet most simply do it for the storage and graphics.

ThunderBolt means that external hard drives are now as fast as internal ones. So in Apple's mind adding another ThunderBolt device is simpler than upgrading an internal drive.

And a Matte screen could mean that Pros could use that instead. As well as adding a second screen using ThunderBolt.
 
Eugene
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2012-04-05, 14:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Then there's really not that much that needs to happen to make the iMac into a more "pro" machine:

1.) Upgrade the screen. Minimum matte/anti-glare set-up. Or, better, a wide gamut display.

2.) Add USB3 and even more thunderbolt ports.

3.) Upgrade CPU to 6 or 8 core BTO option.

4.) Make the internal storage as well as the RAM user accessible.
I guess I don't see the point. That's more stuff consumers won't use or want to pay for all the while not giving you display flexibility. Forcing someone to upgrade a display every time they upgrade a CPU is silly. And then there's the real Mac Pro. Apple is the largest company in the world...they can afford to keep a high-margin, low-volume "hobby" like the Mac Pro around, right?
 
PB PM
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2012-04-05, 15:42

That's what gets me, they really can afford to keep it. If Apple can hang onto a "hobby" project like the Apple TV, surely they can handle keeping the Mac Pro around.
 
chucker
 
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2012-04-05, 16:09

The difference is that Apple TV is related to markets they're slowly getting into, whereas Mac Pro, much like Xserve, is a market they consider secondary at best.
 
Moogs
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2012-04-05, 17:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Moogs, I can't figure out what an iMac design with PCI slots would have to look like, at least not an AIO iMac.

As for the rest, how does OSX handle having one display in sRGB (the iMac) and a second display in aRGB. I've never had the luxury of dual high quality displays and having to worry about color management before. Is it easy, or is there anything to worry about?
I think there's a little confusion here. ALL modern LCDs / CRTs are RGB screens, and none of them are driven by or locked into in any way sRGB or Adobe RGB in the way that's being described. Screens are profile independent devices, other than the fact they themselves can be calibrated and profiled to use as part of your CM workflow. Where sRGB or other spaces come into play is with documents... and whether the screen you're using has a wide enough gamut to encompass all the colors in your most used documental workflow or profile.

For web people all they'll ever need is sRGB because that's what the web is based on, basically. For people who do press work, having a monitor that can display the RGB equivalent colors of all the press colors they need, is important. For video types who do HD broadcast stuff a screen that encompasses the rec.709 standard and then some, is important. For pure photography (i.e. no third party printing - you're doing it all yourself on a high end Epson 4800 or something similar) having a display that can encompass all or most of the Adobe RGB space can be very important. And the printer's gamut is very important too. If you're really gung-ho there's ProPhoto RGB but this space is so large that there are many colors within it that the human eye supposedly can't distinguish and so that's more of a raw editing situation where you want to maximize the possibility that every color in your scene is rendered into the file that's exported to Photoshop... but you'll never see a "ProPhoto" monitor because the tech is not there yet and we as humans couldn't see every color the monitor displayed to begin with.

So with respect to the iMac screens, they're typical 8-bit screens (8-bit LUT in other words, which can result in tonal or color banding if you feed it an image that has a wider gamut than it has). To jump into Mac Pro territory, Apple would need to release one with a 10-bit non-refelective screen IMO, in order to appease people who want to do high end photography or video work. At least with respect to the screen. RAM and GPU horsepower and the rest is another thing all together.

As for multiple screens, I wouldn't do that with an iMac. I'd simply get the largest, widest-gamut screen they offered. I might however, drive two smaller monitors from my MBP, if it had two DisplayPort out plugs. Otherwise I'd just do one big screen if there was only one DisplayPort.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Robo
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2012-04-05, 17:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
The difference is that Apple TV is related to markets they're slowly getting into, whereas Mac Pro, much like Xserve, is a market they consider secondary at best.
Exactly.

Apple can "afford" (monetarily speaking) to make many more products than they currently do. But one of the reasons that they've been so successful — the reason they can afford to make so many more products! — is because they're laser-focused on only the products they can give their full attention to. They don't halfass things. They'd rather not make a workstation at all than a halfassed one. That's why they stopped making the Xserve, as chucker noted.

There are a few exceptions. The Apple TV is probably Apple's most obvious "hobby" product. I wouldn't quite call if halfassed, but it's clearly not a major focus of Apple's iOS strategy in the same way the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch are. It's a stopgap, in sort of the same way the ROKR was (only less bad). Pretty much everybody "knows" that Apple is going to make a more significant play in the television market in the future. They haven't done it yet not because they don't have the money to, but because they've been busy with the first iPhones and iPads. But they need something to complete the iTunes/iCloud picture in the meantime, so they made their hobby product.

(That's why I qualified "afford" with "monetarily speaking" at the start of this post. Apple could afford to make dozens of new products, momentarily speaking, but money isn't exactly Apple's problem right now. They have zillions of dollars but only one executive board. Can Apple's leadership afford to give dozens of new products their fullest attention? There's different types of "afford.")

Apple might decide that the Mac Pro is worthy of being another exception. They might view the Mac Pro as something of a support prosuct for the products they care more about — iOS devices (and consumer Macs) are great because of their awesome apps, and so Apple wants to give developers the best tools to make their awesome apps. It certainly helps that Apple can make beefy margins on a workstation that takes far less engineering effort than a tightly-packed mobile device loaded with custom silicon. But at the same time, they sell far fewer workstations.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
 
Eugene
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2012-04-06, 07:13

If it's all about branding and the media market, then why not keep the product that sits at the head of video production/post-production. I personally don't care if the Mac Pro lives or dies as long as the only alternative is an iMac. The iMac is neither green nor reliable according to my own experience. It's expandable to a point via external add-ons, but I personally would prefer and have opted for a tower and separate display.

I really doubt picking off the shelf parts and maintaining one extra assembly line for nice professional segment is going to break Apple.
 
Moogs
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2012-05-15, 09:48

Hmm. No idea what kind of gamut these would-be Retina-for-Mac displays have, but if Apple can find a way to boost the expandability somehow and the screens DO have good gamut, could well spell the end.

Whatever happens I think we'll have our Mac Pro answer within a month.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/15/...neration-imac/

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Matsu
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2012-05-15, 10:14

I say bring it on. I don't think they'll upgrade every screen though. Just the top end.
 
Axl
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2012-05-15, 10:34

Redundant power supply needed here at work.

Mac Pro update wanted.
 
Moogs
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2012-05-15, 21:10

SPeaking of power supplies, my brand new UPS back-ups was spinning its fans and clicking a couple times today. Don't know if that means surge or if it was just cooling off.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
nikstar101
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2012-05-21, 16:35

While wasting some time online I noticed that a lot of Mac forums are all talking about the demise of the Mac Pro, or the speculation around it. To be honest I think that Apple will update it this year but these days you nvever know. I think if Apple did ever discontinue the Mac Pro they would announce that they were going of end of line it and then give users and businesses time to buy what they need.

But it got me thinking, as all these forum users said they would jump to windows etc, what would i do. I think I would go crazy a buy a maxed out Mac Pro just before they got rid of it. I mean mine is only 3.5 years old but the Mac Cult-ist in me would like to get a 12 Core daddy of a machine and that would probably be my last big Apple purchase. As I think I would move to Mac Mini's when the 12 Core Mac Pro gave up ( or what ever computers look like then).

Anyway just passing some time with my crazy rumblings.....
 
Matsu
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2012-05-22, 04:56

Yeah, it seems generally that Apple's pattern with the pro desktops is that at launch they're very expensive, very powerful, and a reasonably good deal if you happen to be in the market for that sort of machine. They launch the product and that's that. It doesn't get updated for a long while (in computer terms) or get price adjustments, or promos, because that just isn't its target market.

.........................................
 
Moogs
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2012-05-30, 09:02

So much for more transparency in Apple's desktop strategery.

According to Cook, they'll be "Doubling Down" on Secrecy... that's like...... George Lucas doubling down on contrived character types and cheesy dialog. There is no room to double-down.

Humorously, MacRumors isn't sure it will work as evidenced by new iPhone part leaks from China. As if anyone has any question that there is always a new iPhone around the corner and it will look very similar to the last model and it's little internal buttons and parts will look pretty much like the parts inside every other glass smart phone. Talking here about secrecy surrounding new product designs. You'd think in any case desktop towers would get a pass in this department as Apple is not really competing with anyone in this space.

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Moogs
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2012-06-01, 09:33

Noticing that stocks of refurbed Mac Pros are very low now. Usually there are 3-5 models available and multiple in stock. Right now there's one model available. Not sure what that would signify.

Either people are buying them up like crazy assuming there will be no more (and no one is selling)... or... ?

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
PB PM
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2012-06-01, 13:13

Appleinsider posted yesterday that a trusted source indicated that the Mac Pros demise is greatly exaggerated, and that it will be updated at least once more.
 
psmith2.0
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2012-06-01, 14:04

Jim Dalrymple is that source and he's got a pretty awesome track record for knowing inside stuff (even more than Gruber, IMO). So if he says the Mac Pro is going to be updated and stick around a while longer, I tend to believe it. Probably about as close as you'll get to an official statement from Apple.
 
Moogs
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2012-06-01, 16:04

Yah he is a pretty good source.
 
Quagmire
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2012-06-01, 18:41

Not sure if it means a refresh is close, but the 12 core Mac Pro is shipping in 2-4 days while the rest are in stock. Not sure if it is a buying frenzy due to rumors of its demise or inventory is starting to go down as a refresh is coming soon.

giggity
 
psmith2.0
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2012-06-01, 19:08

The buyers guide at MacRumors shows all Macs, except for the MacBook Air, with a red dot beside it. That means "don't buy, updates soon". As we know, the Mac Pro is long overdue, and it's been over a year now for the iMac.

And the MacBook Air, which is the only Mac with a yellow dot beside it (meaning "buy only if needed...approaching the end of a cycle"), was updated last July which is almost a year.

It's entirely possible the entire damn lineup gets updated in the 4-18 days. I actually think we'll see something next week, pre-WWDC (something not involving a redesign, perhaps the Air or Mac mini).
 
Quagmire
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2012-06-01, 19:48

I wouldn't listen to the MR buying guide. It's a computerized calculation taking into account the average cycle to generate the don't buy recommendation.
 
screensaver400
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2012-06-01, 23:30

^Why not? I suppose the "Updates Soon" marker isn't well-worded--I replace it in my mind with, "It's been a long time since an update, suggesting that an update could come at any time." That's good to know, isn't it?
 
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