[wecallitfall]

think secret has a report up on what it believes is the "actual" video iPod

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0602videoipod.html

some very interesting deatils, including the touch screen

shoot me if this is already posted somewhere else

[Mikester]

It has potential.

How would they market this alongside the 5G iPod? Surely they are essentially competing products?

[pscates2.0]

They'll probably yank the 5G iPod (just as I'm approaching my "purchase zone").

I hope not...that 30GB 5G iPod is really nice. Frankly, I'm not interested in something I'd have to turn sideways and hold completely different than the traditional iPod.

We'll see soon enough, I guess.

BTW, AppleInsider is talking about this as well (and new iBooks).

[tacvbo83]

I'd rather have a 5G than to be putting my fingers in the screen to select things. 5G with wireless capabilities would be the answer for a great iPod.

[beardedmacuser]

Originally Posted by Mikester How would they market this alongside the 5G iPod? Surely they are essentially competing products?

I kind of thought it'll replace the 5G iPod. So you'll have video iPod at the top, nano (maybe they'll bump the nano to 8 GB) for cheap music-only iPod, plus Shuffle at the bottom. I see no reason for Apple to sell both 5G and Video iPods.

EDIT: damn you pscates2.0, you beat me to it...

[beardedmacuser]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I hope not...that 30GB 5G iPod is really nice. Frankly, I'm not interested in something I'd have to turn sideways and hold completely different than the traditional iPod.

Just randomly thinking, but as far as music is concerned why could you not continue to use it as a regular 5G iPod and the extra screen serves only as a touchscreen wheel? Then turn in 90 degrees when you're watching video. Hmmm... maybe a bit clunky using it like that .

[pscates2.0]

If it does indeed go that route (this new one "replaces" the 5G), that might mean the 5G gets really affordable from certain sources, as its time winds down?

But I don't see that happening, honestly. First, it JUST came out for crying out loud (October?). Secondly, I don't think Apple would completely give up that iconic, flagship iPod design/look/feel (vertically-oriented, hard-drive based with plenty of storage, click-wheel, etc.).

I can easily imagine this scenario (it is Apple, after all): the 5G iPods will remain and this new, tricked-out video one simply be the "high end" variant, costing $499, or higher (remember how much the 4G photo model cost when it came out?!? $499 and $599! ).

People obviously bought them, so they'd probably buy a $500 "true" video iPod with large screen, etc. if it came to be.

So, in other words, there may simply be a 4-product lineup: shuffle, nano, iPod and this new video iPod. Each separated by $50-100...

Not too far-out of an assumption, is it?

[Eugene]

Virtual click-wheel = horrid idea.

1) Think Mighty-Mouse, no distinguishable tactile feedback messes with your brain. I use my index finger to left-click and middle finger to right-click. When I attempt to do either, my brain registers the same action. Left-clicking causes the right side of the mouse to depress...Except for subtle differences, it feels the same as a right-click. As the virtual click-wheel will likely have no moving parts, it will be even worse.

2) Okay, assuming they make the perfect virtual interface, will they have the perfect screen? How long before we see demo video iPods with substantial circular patterns worn into the screens?

[curiousuburb]

I'm waiting for the 'tard who tries to sue Apple because Apple didn't explicitly warn him that if had the brightness on his viPod up too high and watched pr0n on it 24/7/365 it might lead to blindness and loss of his "vital essence".

[pscates2.0]

Exactly, Eugene. And some people are, frankly, grimy little so-and-so's...gonna be ugly!

Being Apple, they've no doubt considered all this and have developed some new, ultra-modern screen that resists smudges and oils...you watch. That'll be part of Steve's presentation.

"People say 'how can they do this? Won't the screen look horrible after a while?'. Well, I'm happy to tell you that we...".



Granted, his description of it will make it sound 2-4x nicer than it really is...

[wecallitfall]

well apple was still selling the 4G monochrome when the photo was released, so they could go side by side?

[pscates2.0]

Originally Posted by curiousuburb I'm waiting for the 'tard who tries to sue Apple because Apple didn't explicitly warn him that if had the brightness on his viPod up too high and watched pr0n on it 24/7/365 it might lead to blindness and loss of his "vital essence".

No, it'll be the "smudge" thing that'll happen first.

"Ah cain't use mah new iPod 'cause it done got all dirty on the screen, and ah cain't see it no good!"

Wash your hands more than twice a week, jackball.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I have a 2G 20GB iPod and I can easily operate the controls while it sits safely in my coat pocket. This is because of the tactileness (is this a word?) of the controls. If everything just displayed on a screen with no tactile difference across the display then I'd have to pull it out of my pocket to switch albums/playlists/whatever. To me that would be a huge step backwards in usability.

I'm starting to ponder an iPod upgrade since my FW only iPod isn't compatible with any of the addon products available (no port). I'd love one that did video on a good screen so I could dump my PSP, but I don't want to sacrifice the core music-playing goodness that is the iPod in order to get video.

[Bancho]

Originally Posted by curiousuburb I'm waiting for the 'tard who tries to sue Apple because Apple didn't explicitly warn him that if had the brightness on his viPod up too high and watched pr0n on it 24/7/365 it might lead to blindness and loss of his "vital essence".

LOL

"I don't avoid women Mandrake, but I do deny them my esssence."

edit - at least I hope you were trying for a subtle Dr. Strangelove riff

[pscates2.0]

That's a good point, bass...

If this story was anywhere else, I'd not even consider it. But it's on the two heavy-hitters, ThinkSecret and AppleInsider. They're usually not that far off, so I can't help but believe it some.

But yes, besides the whole smudge/grime aspect...you lose that sense of tactile, "okay, I'm here at about 3:00 o'clock on the wheel" guidance you get from the physical click-wheel.

I frequently lie in bed at night with my iPod and just navigate (back, forward, volume, etc.) by feel. That might be tough to do, screen-based...

[Baron Munchausen]

Right, bass, I am sure there are lots of people who would want to play their videos while it sits in their pocket...

...

...

This suggests the 5G will stay alongside.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Baron Munchausen Right, bass, I am sure there are lots of people who would want to play their videos while it sits in their pocket... ... ... This suggests the 5G will stay alongside.

You're suggesting people to use the video iPod solely for video?

As for video, do I really want to obscure my screen while simply adjusting the volume?

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally Posted by Eugene You're suggesting people to use the video iPod solely for video? As for video, do I really want to obscure my screen while simply adjusting the volume?

This was rather tongue-in-cheek. I do get the concept of tactile only control and I do that all the time - very useful on the tube to avoid drawing attention to oneself - but it seemed funny that the first concern over a vPod was if you could control it while in your pocket. That tickled me.

As for OSD, 90% of all televisions do this. Frankly I would prefer to have the control on the rear face as I had suggested and pscates mocked up.

[pscates2.0]

I did?!?

I forgot...when?

[Baron Munchausen]

pscastes: here -> http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=10344

We were discussing the concept and one mock up was 4:3 and then you did a 16:9 with a control wheel on the reverse.

[pscates2.0]

Man, I've got bad memory...I don't even REMEMBER doing that at all!

[zippy]

I think this is brilliant personally. And yes, maybe it would only appeal to those who want it primarily for video.

Having something obscure the video while you adjust volume, etc. does sound annoying, but how much adjustment does the average person do while watching something? The volume would be the most likely adjustment, so maybe Apple will make a "zone" along the bottom of the screen that you can slide your finger either left-right, or right-left, and the only thing that will show up is that slider - leaving the majority of the picture clear. Only if you touch the middle of the screen will the "wheel" show up allowing you more control. That's a bit of a compromise.

I agree that tactile sensitivity is nice for music skipping, volume, pause and play. Pretty much everything else would require that you can see the screen. Maybe when you are in Music mode, they could divide the screen into 4 quadrants, or have a volume slider at the bottom 1/4, a pause play at the top1/4, and skip forward/backward on the left and right in the middle 3/4 of the scren. If you need the wheel, you'll have to click in roughly the center of the screen.

I don't really have a clue. I just don't imagine that Apple hasn't had all the same concerns that we could come up with, and for this to get past Steve, they must have a pretty effective way of dealing with those concerns.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Baron Munchausen pscastes: here -> http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=10344 We were discussing the concept and one mock up was 4:3 and then you did a 16:9 with a control wheel on the reverse.

What they could do is provide the actual physical click-wheel on the back of the device and then visual representation on the front when activated. It would be an overlay but very small, just a visual reminder of which button of the click wheel you are on. However this click-wheel would be inconsistent with any previous incarnation as it would also be a mirror image.

[pscates2.0]

Now it's all getting so complicated and lame...

I've never liked the idea of a full-screen, sideways "video" iPod. Just seems to be going for the "bigger = better" thing, rather than playing on the strengths and comfort of the regular iPod.

Turning it sideways, putting wheels on the back, wheels on the display, dividing the screen into quadrants, having different behaviors when it's in video mode vs. music mode, etc. all strike me as clunky, inelegant and/or non-intuitive approaches. Totally goes against the very things that make the iPod so nice, and you start entering the territory of these weirdo other players that actually require a user manual - and some time - to learn to operate properly.



No thanks.

We've gone over this before, so I'm reluctant to dig all into again...but imagine how effortless the vertically-oriented iPod is now (one hand, comfort, operate with a thumb without shifting your grip, etc.).

Tell me how all that remains when/if you go the other way...and by "tell me", I don't mean some labored, freaky-ass explanation of how it could be done "in theory", yet totally disregards comfort, usability, etc. just to "prove me wrong" or make your point.

Those answers don't count.

[Baron Munchausen]

pscates: rear central scroll wheel. index finger. sorted.

[matt]

they better increase the resolution of the videos they are selling! the current resolution looks horrible on a TV only looks good on the small 4G iPod display. If they go widescreen on this new 5G i would expect increased resolution. (like Sony PSP)

[Matsu]

Like the scroll wheel -- it's part of the iconic proportions of the the iPod and I don't think Apple will want to do away with it but one never knows. Apple keeps finding was to make ther design more minimal...

I think it would be possible to have a clear shell with a touch sensitive grid over the screen, perhaps this shell could also have a tactile feedback function capable of simulating a 'click' through some combination of sound and vibration. Technology does exist to tailor the vibrations more subtly than your typical cell-phone buzzer. Olympus uses a supersonic wave filter to agitate the sensor of their DSLR cameras and remove sticky dust. Something like that wouldn't make the pod buzz like crazy, it would just be perceptible under your fingers. Two or three such devices might even be able to steer the vibrations around a surface. Don't know if it could be made to fit an iPod sized device, or what the battery life penalty would be.

Another option on the clear shell idea may involve some high tech coatings that are equaly transparent when back-lit, but feel different under your fingers. Imagine the wheel being physically silk screened onto the device. When the full screen is playing you can't see it, but you can feel the difference when you touch the screen -- also calling up a visual outline from the display?

[zippy]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Now it's all getting so complicated and lame... I've never liked the idea of a full-screen, sideways "video" iPod. Just seems to be going for the "bigger = better" thing, rather than playing on the strengths and comfort of the regular iPod. Turning it sideways, putting wheels on the back, wheels on the display, dividing the screen into quadrants, having different behaviors when it's in video mode vs. music mode, etc. all strike me as clunky, inelegant and/or non-intuitive approaches. Totally goes against the very things that make the iPod so nice, and you start entering the territory of these weirdo other players that actually require a user manual - and some time - to learn to operate properly. No thanks. We've gone over this before, so I'm reluctant to dig all into again...but imagine how effortless the vertically-oriented iPod is now (one hand, comfort, operate with a thumb without shifting your grip, etc.). Tell me how all that remains when/if you go the other way...and by "tell me", I don't mean some labored, freaky-ass explanation of how it could be done "in theory", yet totally disregards comfort, usability, etc. just to "prove me wrong" or make your point. Those answers don't count.

OK, how about this:

Take your existing ipod out.. go ahead, go get it. Now, turn it sideways so the the scroll wheel is either on the right or the left - your preference as to which handidness you want. Now, move your thumb around the scroll/click wheel as if you were operating it. Not too bad is it? Now rotate it back to vertical and operate it again. Go back and forth between the two and see how easy that would be to adjust to. Personally, I don't find it much different. The wheel seems to stay in the exact same spot (by design maybe????). To support the iPod, the only thing I do differently is that I place my index finger on the "top" of the iPod when it is held sideways, but in back of it when it is held vetically. Heck, that even makes it easier to operate if say you were lying on your back or something.

So, instead of a centered click wheel, maybe the wheel will stay exactly where it is, taking up half of a landscape oriented screen. The other half would have ample room for listing/browsing songs/artists/albums/photos/movies, etc. It could even stay that way when listening to music and browsing photos. The only time the whole screen would be used for one purpose, would be for the videos, and then you would have the "disappearing wheel". When it appears, it only has to be an outline of the wheel, so you could still see through it to the movie.

[pscates2.0]

Yeah, I don't know.

When I talk of the "sideways vs. vertical" thing, I'm mainly concerned with the comfort and "fits nicely in your hand" thing.

Holding an iPod, it just "fits" (not being too wide and so forth). You don't have that same sure grip when you turn it the other way, that's all. Might seem like a small point (and maybe it is to many?), but it's the difference between "laying precariously in your palm" vs. "grasping it securely and snugly".

The tips of your fingers aren't going to reach, and curl around, the other side...unless you're Shaq or bigger, and have gigantic hands/long fingers.



I don't doubt there can be ways to "adjust" and so forth. But I just don't want to...don't feel like losing that familiar comfort and ease (firm, secure grasp with no awkward finger splaying or contortions, simple thumb operation, etc.).

I should consider shutting up about it and *gasp* actually waiting to see what Apple comes up with before painting myself too severely into a corner...who knows what they'll come up with. And if I actually liked it, then I'd have a lot of crow to eat, huh?

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 And if I actually liked it, then I'd have a lot of crow to eat, huh?

Surely not, for you put your views across with sincerity and rational justfication.