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View Poll Results: What Browser do you use on your Mac?
Safari 107 60.11%
Shiira 14 7.87%
Firefox 28 15.73%
Camino 18 10.11%
Netscape 0 0%
Opera 2 1.12%
IE Mac (Can you hear me back there in 2002?) 1 0.56%
Something else 6 3.37%
I don't have a Mac. 2 1.12%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

Browser
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2006-09-16, 19:43

So, recently, I have noticed that a lot of my Mac friends use Firefox. This boggles my mind that they would go out of their way to get what is in most ways an inferior browser.

Most of these people aren't tech saavy, so when I ask why they use Firefox over Safari, they can't explain it past "I like Firefox" or "Safari sucks."

Now, a lot of them are switchers (college freshmen), and intelligent ones at that, so they are used to the "Firefox is better" song and dance. I was content to write it off at that, until I learned that most of them actually TRIED Safari and decided they like Firefox better. One person down the hall is a programmer, for christsakes, he has a TiBook, an Ubuntu custom built box and a Debian G4 mini (as a server) on his desk. He's hard core. And he prefers Firefox - even to Camino, for some reason. Maybe its because hes used to Firefox because he is on GNOME most of the time, and he has also claimed that its because he perfers Firefox for philosophical reasons - open source.

I've used all the browsers. I HAVE all the browsers for testing purposes. And I believe that Safari is currently the best, Shiira being a close second. Still waiting on Shiira 2.0 to give it another shot.

Firefox is my LEAST favorite Mac browser. I like WebKit more than Gecko, and on top of that, Firefox's interface always comes off as being cobbled together for a hasty Mac port. It still FEELS like a Windows application, and I don't like using it. (I do my Gecko testing, for the most part, in Camino.)

So, I am here looking for some understanding. What browser do you use? If you use Firefox... WHY??? Why would you use it when you could use Safari/Shiira, or, if for some reason you're all about Gecko, Camino. This is a rather important thing for me to understand, as a web designer.

Thanks. I know I can always come here for some fast enlightenment

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2006-09-17 at 12:49.
 
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2006-09-16, 20:15

Pretty much the only good argument Firefox has to it is extensions. There are some nice ones, and the selection compares very favorably to Safari's extensions, let alone Camino's.
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2006-09-16, 20:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
So, recently, I have noticed that a lot of my Mac friends use Firefox. This boggles my mind that they would go out of their way to get what is in most ways an inferior browser.
You know you're just askin' for a heap of trouble there, right?
 
iFerret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
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2006-09-16, 20:47

I use Firefox on Windows, and I like it.

But with Win, there is really only two choices- shitty IE and pretty good FF.

I use Firefox mainly for the extensions- when you get the right extensions, you can make Firefox one of the better browsers on the planet. I've also found that Firefox isn't much of a rrsource hog, which is good.
 
T-Man
The Hoarding Packrat™
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-09-16, 20:53

I've gained a liking for Camino. Though I love a lot of the features of OmniWeb or... ah, Shiira 2, I've yet to switch to anything else. Maybe once Shiira is done. Looks good.
 
BlueRabbit
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
2006-09-16, 21:21

I've been using Safari since it came out, although I have pretty much all of them installed. However, I'm thinking of switching to Shiira, or Omniweb now that version 5.5 is out...choices, choices...
 
ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-09-16, 21:40

Hmm I think I started using FF on the Mac because back then, Safari couldn't do RSS or something like that. I later switched to Camino, for the nicer interface. And yes, I am aware that Camino can't do RSS either, and Safari can now, so don't ask me why I didn't switch to Safari. No idea. May be that old dog new tricks thing ...
 
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2006-09-16, 21:41

I use Safari on my Mac other than a few sites that have known issues with Safari and then I'll use Firefox.
 
PKIDelirium
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-09-16, 21:47

I used Firefox at first, then a friend linked me to Camino. Since then, I only use Firefox if I get one of those dumb site media players that only works on IE or FireFox.
 
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2006-09-16, 21:51

I use both Safari and FF on a regular basis. It depends on what site I'm going to - anything with heavy javascript will bog down in Safari, as will any site that's full of ads. I *greatly* prefer the UI of Safari (FF is just so damned ugly and does text shit that I can't get used to) but some times it's just easier to surf with FF.
 
ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-09-16, 21:57

Why don't you try Camino?
 
Barto
Student extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
 
2006-09-16, 21:58

I use Firefox on anything.
 
rollercoaster375
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UIllinois (Champaign, IL)
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2006-09-16, 22:06

I use Camino because of WebKit's idiocy regarding © and application/xhtml+xml, and Safari's lack of a "New Tab" toolbar button.

Not much, but it's stuff that's important to me.

EDIT: I should mention that I also dislike the brushed metal-ness of Safari, but I've removed that ala Interface Builder, so it's no longer applicable.

I really have nothing to put here, but I feel it's rather strange to not have one.
 
PKIDelirium
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-09-16, 22:41

How do you remove that with interface builder? I've heard it before but can't figure it out.
 
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2006-09-17, 02:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKIDelirium View Post
How do you remove that with interface builder? I've heard it before but can't figure it out.
Interface Builder is part of Apple's developer tools package. If you don't have it installed, don't bother installing it just for this task. There are other apps available that are designed specifically to toggle Safari's metal theme, simplifying the process.

If you do want to use IB, open the Browser.nib in your language of choice in the Safari package contents. With the Window object selected, show the Inspector (under the Tools menu), choose the Attributes section, and uncheck the box for "Has texture". Save. Relaunch Safari!

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
 
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2006-09-17, 02:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
FF is just so damned ugly
Absolutely my experience - good browser it may otherwise be but it looks terrible to my mind.
 
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2006-09-17, 04:19

Omniweb FTW

Since the recent update, it renders so damn fast, I'm amazed the other browsers are still permitted.
 
scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
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2006-09-17, 04:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef View Post
Absolutely my experience - good browser it may otherwise be but it looks terrible to my mind.
I would have to agree with both of you there.
Very capable browser, and the one I use whenever Safari falls down. But I doubt I will ever use anything other than Safari in the future, barring any major problem with it.

The thing about Safari, is that each revision they seem to iron out each and every issue I have had with the last one. In that sense it's one of the most satisfying apps, as it does seem to keep pace with my needs so well.

For example, last year I was having problems with my MySQL servers when logging in using Safari, and would have to use FF for that. This year that problem has majically dissapeared, and a lot more secure sites seem not to have any issues. This has been getting steadily better for the last 4 years.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
 
p-trick
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-09-17, 05:19

Just to specify.

I'm still using Safari 1.3.2 and although I doubt it's the best choice, I stick to it because I'm used to.
 
Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
 
2006-09-17, 05:49

OmniWeb.

Workspaces, saved sessions, site preferences, favicons in the favourites bar (perfect use for favicons: no text required, saves space - excellent UI here), vertical tabs with previews, customisable search shortcuts (no need for an extra search bar) ... there's even an HTML source editor built in, although I haven't had the need to use it. Of course, the recent change to WebKit has done wonders for it in terms of speed too.

The whole thing is just so thoughtfully designed. I'm in love with it and will happily pay The Omni Group once I go through their 30 days of pleas to pay. (I want to see what the final message is.)

All I want is a simple life
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blakbyrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Warrenville, SC
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2006-09-17, 06:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
If you do want to use IB, open the Browser.nib in your language of choice in the Safari package contents. With the Window object selected, show the Inspector (under the Tools menu), choose the Attributes section, and uncheck the box for "Has texture". Save. Relaunch Safari!
Does that give it the grey color like iTunes?
 
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-09-17, 09:44

As I've said many times before, give me something as useful as firefox extensions for Camino or Safari and I might consider them. Until then I consider them both pretty but broken browsers.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
 
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2006-09-17, 09:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
Why don't you try Camino?
Extensions.
 
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2006-09-17, 11:11

Okay so when I typed Opera, I meant OmniWeb. Brain fart.

Although I should've included both anyway.

Now, here's the thing: Firefox extentions are great and rarely work with Camino. But, in the context of the original question, most people don't USE extentions. Is a naked Firefox really superior to Safari?

I am convinced that for most switchers, it's because they have been trained that FF owns all on Windows, so they assume it does on Mac too.

Sooo.... OmniWeb is on WebKit? *scurries off to download*

I've never used it. The price tag always scares me off. But it sounds awesome.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
 
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2006-09-17, 11:16

Hell no. I wouldn't use FF without extensions. What would the point be? I'd use Camino before FF in that case. Have you told them about camino?
 
Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
 
2006-09-17, 11:36

Kraetos - I hope you like it as much as I do. I don't normally shell out for things that I have been given for free (Safari web browser, for instance) but I honestly want to reward them for their work ... $29.95 isn't that much for something that I use every day.

All I want is a simple life
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2006-09-17, 11:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Hell no. I wouldn't use FF without extensions. What would the point be? I'd use Camino before FF in that case. Have you told them about camino?
EXACTLY.

That is why I am confused.

In thinking about an answer to your Camino question, I stumbled upon something else that helps this make more sense:

When I tell a switcher about Camino, he/she doesn't care. When I tell a long time Mac user that just prefers Firefox (for non-extention reasons), they normally download Camino.

And I think I know whats going on:

The longtime Mac user cares a LOT more about his/her UI experience. My friends have noticed that I am pedantic to the point of obsession when it comes to how my computer looks and works. I think this is more typical of longtime Mac users. A recent example: when a friend of mine said to me "Your iTunes looks different than mine. And I just downloaded 7" I responded "I un-capitalized the headers in the source list because it was ugly." I half expected a "can you do that to mine?" but instead I got "obsessed much?".

However, a switcher does not care about the details nearly as much. I mean, they care more than AVERAGE because, I mean, they switched, right? But not nearly as much as myself or anyone here at AppleNova. So the fact that the Firefox interface is so messy and un-Mac like doesn't matter to them. It's still a giant step up from Windows.

Most users dont care about the details. Or at the very least, they ignore them because they decide the fix isn't worth the effort. This is especially true of Windows users becase on top of them not really caring, they are used to a messy interface.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
 
Wyatt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2006-09-17, 13:26

On Windows machines, I use Firefox exclusively. On my Mac, I use Brad's Shiira Plus for most sites. I do use Safari, but only for my school's Web portal that inexplicably doesn't support Shiira, like many of our campus Web services. (Then again, I haven't bitched to our security admin yet, despite the fact that her office is just down the hall from mine.)

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
 
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2006-09-17, 15:00

I use Safari, but I have Camino installed because I like that little guy.
 
DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2006-09-17, 20:57

Safari most of the time, Shiira some of the time. I like them both.
 
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