[Windswept]

I'd *love* to invest financially in this future product - a red wine extract supplement.

http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/cli...ine01-ON1.html

Edit: This is an *excerpt* of the whole article:

WASHINGTON - Huge amounts of a red wine extract seemed to help obese mice eat a high-fat diet and still live a long and healthy life, suggests a new study that some experts are calling "landmark" research. The big question is, can it work the same magic in humans? Scientists say it's far too early to start swilling barrels of red wine. But some are calling the latest research promising and even "spectacular." The study by the Harvard Medical School and the National Institute of Aging shows that heavy doses of red wine extract lowers the rate of diabetes, liver problems and other fat-related ill effects in obese mice. Fat-related deaths dropped 31 percent for obese mice on the supplement, compared to untreated obese mice, and the treated mice also lived long after they should have, the study said. Astoundingly, the organs of the fat mice that got the wine extract looked normal when they shouldn't have, said study lead author Dr. David Sinclair of Harvard Medical School. And Sinclair said other preliminary work still being done in the lab shows the wine ingredient has promise in lengthening the life span of normal-sized mice, too. For years, red wine has been linked to numerous health benefits. But the new study, published online in the journal Nature on Thursday, shows that mammals given ultrahigh doses of the red wine extract resveratrol can get the good effects of cutting calories without having the pain of actually doing it. "If we're right about this, it would mean you could have the benefit of restricting calories without having to feel hungry," Sinclair said. "It's the Holy Grail of aging research." Resveratrol, produced when plants are under stress, are found in the skin of grapes and in other plants, including peanuts and some berries. The resveratrol-treated 55 obese mice on a high-calorie diet (one scientist called it a "McDonald's diet") are not only about as healthy as normal mice, they are as agile and active on exercise equipment as their lean cousins, showing what can be considered a normal quality of life, higher than usual for obese mice, said study co-author Rafael de Cabo of the National Institute on Aging. "These fat old mice can perform as well on this skill test as young lean mice," Sinclair said.

If you've looked at the overweight population around you lately, you'll realize that this extract could make a lot of investors very rich.

Basically, it sounds like it lets people (fit or unfit) eat what they want and still be active, healthy, and long-lived. Does that sound like a miracle substance or what?!!

And I think obese people would lose all that extra weight once they felt better and started being more active.

Ah, red wine. Ya gotta love it. Think I'll go out and buy some this afternoon.

[Sauvblanc]

What they really needed to do was put the dose in perspective. In other words, how much red wine would we puny humans need to quaff in order to get the same amount of resveratrol that these mice got?

So that way I know how many cases of the stuff I need to buy and drink on a daily basis.

I wonder...if you drink more glasses of high-quality red wine (say Chateau Petrus, for example, or Penfold Grange), do you get better results than if you just drink the boxed plonk from Trader Joe's?

You know, this is the sort of test for which I'd volunteer as a guinea pig...where do I sign up?

[Kickaha]

Actually, I don't see anywhere in there that the mice lost weight... only that it didn't seem to affect them as much.

So while it would seem to help folks (maybe, assuming it also works in people) live normal lives, it won't help their image in the mirror, or their own heads.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Sauvblanc What they really needed to do was put the dose in perspective. In other words, how much red wine would we puny humans need to quaff in order to get the same amount of resveratrol that these mice got? So that way I know how many cases of the stuff I need to buy and drink on a daily basis. I wonder...if you drink more glasses of high-quality red wine (say Chateau Petrus, for example, or Penfold Grange), do you get better results than if you just drink the boxed plonk from Trader Joe's? You know, this is the sort of test for which I'd volunteer as a guinea pig...where do I sign up?

Actually, Sauvblanc, I didn't quote the entire article. This bit answers at least one of your questions.

Sinclair said he takes resveratrol supplements, but doesn't recommend it for others. Sinclair's mice took such high doses of resveratrol that it would be the equivalent of an adult drinking 100 bottles of wine daily. Resveratrol works by spurring activity and regrowth in cells' mitochondria, which Sinclair called "the energy powerhouses of the cell."

Sooo... 100 bottles of wine a day? Nope, don't think I could manage it.

[Sauvblanc]

Windswept was probably referring to a trickle-down effect. You're overweight, you take resveratrol, you feel better and more active, so you do more stuff and in the process, you lose weight. But if we were a nation of active people, obesity wouldn't be such a problem as it is right now.

I'm reading the actual article in Nature. They did not lose weight-they gained weight as much as their high-calorie control (i.e. no resveratrol) counterparts and maintained a high cholesterol level in spite of the resveratrol, but the mice seemed to be less prone to liver damage and diabetes and reduced their mortality rate by 30% .

However, a little summary provides a number of significant caveats:

1) It's not known whether the resveratrol treatment reverses liver damage when given AFTER the mice have been on the high-calorie diet. The mice were on resveratrol when they were put on a high-calorie diet. Basically this is like feeding a human a healthy diet for years and then giving them resveratrol and access to all the Big Macs they want to eat. Do it the other way 'round-feed 'em the high calorie diet first and then add resveratrol and keep the Big Macs going-this would more accurately mimic what happens in the real world.

2) No idea how resveratrol works-or whether it actually works in humans. Apparently the effects are similar to being on a calorie-restricted diet, but this hasn't been tested in humans. The author of the study thinks he knows what pathways are involved, but needs to study them first.

My opinion? A good mouse model study and the effects *are* strikingly significant, but since we have no idea how-or even if-the effects are similar to humans, should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

Kickaha has it right-the last thing we need to do is give people an excuse to keep stuffing Big Macs down their maws and keeping them overweight simply because they'll be "healthier" physiologically. Also a lot of people will likely misinterpret the study as saying that resveratrol is the next fat-busting pill or something, something you can take to keep from gaining weight while you eat whatever you like.

[Sauvblanc]

100 bottles???? I wonder if resveratrol would help prevent the liver damage that would result from drinking 100 bottles of wine a day!!

That's kind of ironic...pill form would be better, methinks...

Yeah, I'd get sick of red wine very quickly if I had to drink 100 bottles a day.

[BarracksSi]

Interesting...

My mom's been staving off a mild diabetes, and while checking her blood sugar, she's noticed that it stays very well within limits at bedtime if she finishes dinner with a glass of red wine.

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Windswept I'd *love* to invest financially in this future product - a red wine extract supplement. http://www.azcentral.com/php-bin/cli...ine01-ON1.html If you've looked at the overweight population around you lately, you'll realize that this extract could make a lot of investors very rich. Basically, it sounds like it lets people (fit or unfit) eat what they want and still be active, healthy, and long-lived. Does that sound like a miracle substance or what?!! And I think obese people would lose all that extra weight once they felt better and started being more active. Ah, red wine. Ya gotta love it. Think I'll go out and buy some this afternoon.

I simply do not believe it. Other than making your heart beat faster and you intake more oxygen to oxidize more fat, there isn't a good solution to stop putting on pounds other than eating healthy and being active.

[Partial]

I prefer to get my resveratrol the old fashion way

*pops cork*

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 I simply do not believe it. Other than making your heart beat faster and you intake more oxygen to oxidize more fat, there isn't a good solution to stop putting on pounds other than eating healthy and being active.

See? Even when it has been pointed out earlier that this DOES NOT MAKE YOU LOSE WEIGHT, people misunderstand it grossly.



Where do I invest?

[Sauvblanc]

Yup.

People want to have it all-the ripped physique while sitting on their asses eating Macca's for breakfast, lunch and dinner. They don't misunderstand, they just don't WANT to acknowledge that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Pun intended.

How advertisers of shonky weight-loss products can get away with having the microscopically small fine print "when accompanied by a sensible diet and exercise plan" is beyond me.

*sigh*





Before you know it someone's gonna make an infomercial on this...

[Kickaha]

Edit: Nebbermind Sauv, got the gist on second reading. But I *still* say, for the rest of the studio audience...

I still don't think y'all are getting it.

Read the article. No where, at all, does it say, claim or state, that the mice lost weight.

Only that, STILL OBESE, they had healthier hearts, cardio, and energy levels than they would have without the extract.

That's all. Anything else is being added to it by misreading it, misunderstanding it, or willful negligence. Big news for quality of living, as long as you don't mind the excess pounds... assuming, of course, that it works in humans at all. And doesn't have worse side-effects.

Now, maybe, as Windswept says, the increased mobility and energy would naturally lead people to be more active and lose weight, buy I'm guessing not.

[Sauvblanc]

Too bad I'm not allowed to post attachments otherwise I'd include a PDF of both the summary of the article and the article itself as shown in Nature. I think the Nature summary-being aimed at scientists-doesn't lay on the hype quite so thick that resveratrol is some sort of miracle drug. It's a more concise summary of the study as it was done as well as the caveats that I outlined in my post above.

No weight loss to be seen here, folks. Move along. Go back to your spin classes and treadmills. Remember to stop at the salad bar on the way home, but lay off the dressing.

[Sauvblanc]

Just cracked open a nice French wine from the Medoc region.

1 down, 99 more bottles to go...

[rollercoaster375]

I can't believe you all are missing the innate humor in the statement:

Originally Posted by The linked article "These fat old mice can perform as well on this skill test as young lean mice," Sinclair said.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Kickaha I still don't think y'all are getting it. Read the article. No where, at all, does it say, claim or state, that the mice lost weight. Only that, STILL OBESE, they had healthier hearts, cardio, and energy levels than they would have without the extract. Now, maybe, as Windswept says, the increased mobility and energy would naturally lead people to be more active and lose weight, buy I'm guessing not.

Ah, but I am such an optimist, Kickaha my dear.

I see that there are no downsides here, given that we are required to deal with *reality* as it exists in this world.

If you have a relative who is chunky, someone you love in spite of their chunkiness, you will be glad that even if they *don't* change their unfortunate habits, their chances to feel good, be active, and enjoy life in their own way have greatly improved.

The alternative is that they don't change their unfortunate habits, but instead reap the natural medical consequences of their bad choices - heart attacks, damaged liver, poor general health, inability to be active.

Which scenario is better for this chunky relative that you care about?

And, being an optimist, I contend that if they feel better and are more active than before, they will eventually choose to lose that weight. In any case, if the red wine extract keeps them healthier, and extends their life, they'll have more chances to reform.

I also wish to point out that the extract would allow people who are already fit and slim to indulge themselves in the odd hot fudge sundae or lobster dipped in butter without worrying about destroying their health.

And to someone above, I wish to remind them that this study was done by the Harvard School of Medicine and the National Institute of Aging - not exactly fly-by-night infomercial types.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster375 I can't believe you all are missing the innate humor in the statement:

No, actually I thought that statement was pretty darned funny... especially coming from scientific researchers.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Windswept I also wish to point out that the extract would allow people who are already fit and slim to indulge themselves in the odd hot fudge sundae or lobster dipped in butter without worrying about destroying their health.

IIRC, there's nothing that prevents fit and slim people from the odd indulgence in these things now without destroying their health.

No magic beans required.

[Sauvblanc]

Originally Posted by Windswept And to someone above, I wish to remind them that this study was done by the Harvard School of Medicine and the National Institute of Aging - not exactly fly-by-night infomercial types.

No, they're reputable, all right.

What I was referring to about the infomercial was that any day now some shyster will start hollering through your TV at 2 AM hawking resveratrol in a pill. And claim that it helps you feel more active and lose weight (accompanied by the usual fine print of needing a sensible diet and exercise) and that this was backed up by a major university study. And then they'll start trotting out some non-existent shoddy science to prove their point. And then I'll bust a seam laughing cuz the science is so bad. This is why I watch Kevin Trudeau's infomercial, it's great for a giggle or two.

The last thing I think we need is fat people who think they're healthy just because they take resveratrol and continue to chow down on supersized Whopper meals.

[Windswept]

Well. A few days ago, I happened to glance at a page of Walgreen ads as I was throwing it in the trash. My eye caught the word "resveratrol".

Whoa, I thought! This stuff is finally being sold at the corner drugstore?

So, yesterday I bought some resveratrol from Walgreen's. They had two kinds on hand, so I decided to try both.

The kind in the red box cost $20 for 40 capsules, and the recommended dosage is two caps per day (500mg). The price, imo, is high, especially if one wishes to take red wine extract over a long term, so I am hoping Costco will carry this product. Maybe they already 'do'. I didn't see it the last time I shopped there, but maybe they'll carry it online.

ANYway... I took the two caps...aaaand...

*suspense*....... ........

I noticed remarkable, beneficial effects literally overnight. From one single dose.

I am seriously amazed, and have become an instant fan of this stuff. If beneficial results actually can be 'perceived' after one single dose.... well... ...holy moly!

I came across the following article, which is a summary of findings from research on resveratrol. Interesting article that I think you should read. I thought the findings were quite exciting.

http://www.lef.org/resveratrol/

Dozens of studies were published in this past year alone. Research has uncovered a diverse range of activities that may make resveratrol one of the most useful agents ever discovered for a wide range of human health problems.*

As I reread the thread, I noticed again that people seem to be getting 'stuck' on the whole issue of weight loss, and not getting beyond that to the broader areas of benefit.

Why not put that aspect aside for now, and just read about the myriad, truly amazing health benefits that resveratrol seems to produce.

I'm not an investor yet, but I hope to become one soon.

[Kickaha]

I like my version better... a big glass of sangria.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have another dosage due...

[Wrao]

I've taken resveratrol off and on for months. I can't say that it has any effect, but most of the effects aren't necessarily noticeable, so it is a tricky sort of thing. There is a lot of science behind it, but it is also very new to the market and we have yet to really figure out how much humans need to take to experience positive effects. Additionally, I am always wary of pop supplements. Anything that becomes too mainstream becomes that much harder to find good quality information and product.

For instance, Acai Berries. About 2 years ago they started appearing in drinks, and were being championed as "the antioxidant miracle berry from overseas". Now, there is nothing to say that acai berries aren't great for you, but, if I have an acai berry jamba juice drink, I am likely having the cheapest, picked off the ground, going moldy, frozen for months, sitting in a box for months, janky ass berries combined with a ton of sugar... well you get the picture about how a good thing can go rotten when it get all that exposure. But compounding that, you get every competing company rushing out the door to get a product that advertises 'Acai', even if there is barely any acai berry in it. Again, quality control becomes a major issue when all these companies settle for the cheapest ways to get sales based on the trend.


The other example I can think of is Fish Oil. Fish oil IS the shit. It is everything they say it is and more. It is, bar none, the one thing that I strongly believe everyone should be taking. The health benefits are off the charts. But, there is *a lot* of crappy Omega-3 supplements out there. Stuff that is unregulated, low dosage, overpriced, poorly kept(thus potentially rendering the omega-3s completely useless), and otherwise a complete waste of money.

uh...

So, really I'm just saying, be a good consumer. It is obvious, but I think it is especially important with dietary supplements because some of them really can do wonders for your health, but because it is an unregulated industry... there is a very very large noise:signal ratio.

[BenP]

Originally Posted by Windswept I noticed remarkable, beneficial effects literally overnight. From one single dose.

Hey Windswept, what kind of effects did you notice? Can you describe them?

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by BenP Hey Windswept, what kind of effects did you notice? Can you describe them?

She noticed an increase in her female placebo.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by BenP Hey Windswept, what kind of effects did you notice? Can you describe them?

I'm a little curious too. I'm always really picky about the supplements I allow my family to take since, as Wrao put it, I am likely having the cheapest, picked off the ground, going moldy, frozen for months, sitting in a box for months, janky ass berries combined with a ton of sugar... if I don't go for high quality manufacturing from a trusted source. My normal supplier controls it's own farms and processing, etc.

Originally Posted by Wrao She noticed an increase in her female placebo.

[billybobsky]

Indeed, Windswept's story screams placebo effect.

Granted, placebo is enough for some people.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Wrao I've taken resveratrol off and on for months. I can't say that it has any effect, but most of the effects aren't necessarily noticeable, so it is a tricky sort of thing. There is a lot of science behind it, but it is also very new to the market and we have yet to really figure out how much humans need to take to experience positive effects.

Well, I did go ahead and take the 500mg dose. But after I read the article I cited in my most recent post, I saw that they used really 'large' doses on the studied mice... apparently with no ill effect. So, I think I'd be interested in taking the 500mg dose 'twice' a day, instead of just once.

If you didn't take at least 500mg, perhaps you didn't take enough to notice any effects.

if I have an acai berry jamba juice drink, I am likely having the cheapest, picked off the ground, going moldy, frozen for months, sitting in a box for months, janky ass berries combined with a ton of sugar... well you get the picture about how a good thing can go rotten when it get all that exposure. But compounding that, you get every competing company rushing out the door to get a product that advertises 'Acai', even if there is barely any acai berry in it. Again, quality control becomes a major issue when all these companies settle for the cheapest ways to get sales based on the trend.

Well, exactly. I would wish to do some reading to find the highest quality product available. I thought the following was interesting, along those lines:

How Much Resveratrol Is In Wine In order to understand how much resveratrol is in wine, one must realize that resveratrol is a natural substance made by grapes and other plants in response to fungal infection. How much resveratrol is in a glass of wine depends, first, on whether the grapes were grown organically, and, second, how the wine was made. Grapes sprayed with pesticides that prevent fungal infection contain little, if any, resveratrol. Wines grown in dry climates have less resveratrol than those grown in humid areas. Red wines contain more than white because of how red wine is made. The end result of all of this is that organic red wines from certain areas of Europe contain the highest level of resveratrol. But most wines contain either no resveratrol at all, or very little (less than a milligram per glass). The only sure way to obtain a certain amount of resveratrol daily is to take a standardized extract. Standardization ensures a consistent amount of resveratrol with consistent high quality. The finest resveratrol available comes from Europe. It is made from organic French grapes known for their high resveratrol content. The resveratrol is carefully extracted to retain other compounds (polyphenols) that naturally occur with it. This pharmaceutical wine extract is then enhanced with resveratrol extracted from the roots of a medicinal plant (Polygonnum cuspidatum) used for centuries in Asia for the treatment of inflammation, heart, blood vessel and liver disease, skin and lipid problems. The result is a product that retains the active parts of wine in a natural balance with increased potency and consistent quality.

The other example I can think of is Fish Oil. Fish oil IS the shit. It is everything they say it is and more. It is, bar none, the one thing that I strongly believe everyone should be taking. The health benefits are off the charts.

I agree completely about fish oil, Wrao. Costco sells two kinds. I buy the more expensive of the two. I plan to buy some to give to my brother (along with C, E, resveratrol and Costco's multivitamin), because I know he won't buy it on his own, and I want him to stay healthy.

Originally Posted by BenP Hey Windswept, what kind of effects did you notice? Can you describe them?

Yeah, overnight I went from a C-cup to a DD.

Okay, just kidding.

Well, the shin area of my lower right leg has been aching terribly when I'm trying to get to sleep at night. I have tried pretty much everything to relieve this pain, and basically, nothing has even touched it. I'm not sure what the cause is, though there are plenty of possibilities.

I took the resveratrol - not knowing at that point that it could have an effect on pain - but I woke up *without* the shin pain for the first time in months... 'and' after getting a good night's sleep.

I once had a jogging accident that injured my ankle and lower right leg; and I don't know if the pain I've been having could be related to that. But if the resveratrol can get rid of that pain, omigod, I shall offer incense at a shrine in its honor!

Originally Posted by Wrao She noticed an increase in her female placebo.

Originally Posted by Kickaha I like my version better... a big glass of sangria. Now if you'll excuse me, I have another dosage due...

Yum. Sounds miiiighty tasty. Especially when sitting on the porch, watching the rain fall.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by Windswept Yeah, overnight I went from a C-cup to a DD.

*falls out of chair*

[Windswept]

Well, back in August, after I had checked with Costco.com and found that they *didn't* carry resveratrol, I sent their administrative offices an email requesting that they carry this red wine extract product.

I cited a few links for them to read, and mentioned that I had bought the product at Walgreen's for too-high a price.

So, guess what? Now Costco *does* carry resveratrol, and for around *half* the price of Walgreen's. Yay!

I ordered some online, and it was delivered to my doorstep a few days ago. What a great way to shop.

If you are interested, go to costco.com, and search for "Resvinatrol Complete" under the "Health" category.

[DMBand0026]

Does this stuff really work? I don't drink so I figure if I can get the benefits of red wine without actually drinking it, that might not be a bad thing.