[matt]

I hate how pathetic the Apple Office Suite is compared to MS Office 2004. It seems Apple has given up, but if that is the case then don't preload Apple-crap-works, and sell MS Office preloaded at a discounted rate. I hear rumors from time to time about an Aqua version of AppleWorks, aka AppleWorks X. Where are you??

This is one of the soar points I have found with students going Mac, Wintel switchers. The way its laid out, you feel you must buy Office as a student. And please don't anyone tell me you can get through college using that Appleworks crap. Dell and other PCs may not come FREE with Office, but they do sell it discounted big time...and if you don't get it I beleive Word comes with most Wintels these days.

Come on Apple...at least make AppleWord X or offer Word 2004 for $50.

[DMBand0026]

AppleWorks needs updating desperately. I hate MS Word, for a variety of reasons...way too long to go into here...So I'd love to see AppleWorksX

[Kickaha]

Most universities have a licensing deal with MS.

I got Office 2004 for $10, for instance.

[alcimedes]

i got it for free. thankfully i rarely have to use it.

[Mac+]

That's a damned amazing discount Kick! :wow:

I would love to see AppleWorks X.

I mean, I use Office v.X and it works - but lately, I have been noticing that Word is taking up a huge amount of processing recources - the CPU (G4 @ 550MHz) always sits at about 30-40% when it is open.

[staph]

Originally Posted by Mac+ That's a damned amazing discount Kick! :wow: I would love to see AppleWorks X. I mean, I use Office v.X and it works - but lately, I have been noticing that Word is taking up a huge amount of processing recources - the CPU (G4 @ 550MHz) always sits at about 30-40% when it is open.

That situation is massively improved by 2004.

Not that I would recommend buying anything Microsoft.

[Kickaha]

Go grab OpenOffice and try it out - it's not a great piece of software in my estimation, but then neither is Office.

It is pretty darned compatible, I'm quite impressed. For the limited Office needs I have (try opening Word a dozen times a year, and Excel maybe twice), it works spiffy. I do believe that this will be the last time MS gets a nickel from me.

[Mac+]

I am tempted by Office - particulalry Entourage, but I have commited myself to Mail/Address Book/iCal and I want to stay that way.

I would also like to get Keynote at some stage - so that puts PowerPoint out of the loop too.

I really only use Word and Excel - but it is not financially smart to purchase them separately. If Apple could do a Word and Excel program, then they'd pretty much have the idea of Office apps sewn up.

[Kickaha]

Seriously, try OpenOffice if you just want Word and Excel - those apps are pretty darned compatible.

[Ryan]

I find TextEdit is fine for midterms and term papers. Granted, I turn mine in in paper, not electronically, so it doesn't really matter what I type it in, but it still works well. Thankfully, none of my teachers give points for WordArt.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by CubeDude I find TextEdit is fine for midterms and term papers. Granted, I turn mine in in paper, not electronically, so it doesn't really matter what I type it in, but it still works well.

Quite right. Hear hear!

TextEdit works wonderfully for many purposes. Granted, it doesn't work for everything, but it covers a heck of a lot of ground for a free app that's included with the OS. It'll go even farther in 10.4 with support for MS Word tables and possibly other goodies.

[psmith2.0]

I use TextEdit daily. Just a revved-up, nice version of SimpleText. I'd rather launch it than Word. In fact, it occupies a spot in my Dock, always at the ready, along with all the usual, expected Apple apps.

[Mac+]

I don't know about Text Edit for Uni reports - font changing, margin setting, header and footers, captions, etc - all easier (for me, at least) on Word. Granted though, TextEdit is a *lean* app - which is obviously better (CPU wise) than Word.

Kickaha - As for Open Office, I don't have an issue wanting to rid myself of MS apps for some other 3rd party apps (not yet, anyway). I would just like to see Apple produce a Word and Excel app - or, as originally posted, to update AppleWorks into a fully fledged X worthy app.

(Maybe I need to clarify - I bought Office v.X at the same time I picked up this TiBook. I did try Open Office ages ago - but since I had already bought Office v.X it seemed redundant. )

[Frank777]

Cool. A productivity software thread. I love these...

1. Shame.

Steve Jobs should be ashamed that his company ships a product like AppleWorks 6. Period. [edited; AW7 does not exist]
It defies everything Apple stands for in the modern era: Sleek design, modern interface, technological marvel under the hood, etc.

I understand there have been problems taming the Redmond beast, but surely Apple could have kept AppleWorks far enough from Word and Excel without leaving it to rot like this.

2. OpenOffice is coming...slowly.

Check out this link. OpenOffice is slowly making its way to Mac OS X, apparently without help from Apple. By the time Tiger's unveiled, there may only be a six month wait. The hardest work is being done now, and prettying up the Aqua interface will attract much more Open Source help than the hard work to date.

I do however, doubt that Apple's spent all that time on those under-the-hood Cocoa text frameworks to see the Mac's productivity space move to a non-optimized Java implementation. Apple's clearly got a package under wraps in its vaults, and Jobs really needs to decide whether he's going to take on Redmond or not. If not, please let the rest of us know. Small developers like Nisus and Mellel deserve to know whether a spreadsheet app is worth pursuing.

3. Filemaker Pro, no?

Apple owns Filemaker, but somebody forgot to tell the Webmaster.
Filemaker Pro shows up in Third Party Software at the Apple Store, and isn't offered in a bundle with Keynote.

While I appreciate FM 7's advances in technology, the Mac version does not Mac-specific functionality - including transparency - which has been built into the OS for several years now. Why can't I impose a semi-transparent 'PAID' over an invoice in Filemaker? Somebody ask Jobs.

[staph]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Apple's clearly got a package under wraps in its vaults, and Jobs really needs to decide whether he's going to take on Redmond or not. If not, please let the rest of us know. Small developers like Nisus and Mellel deserve to know whether a spreadsheet app is worth pursuing.

I don't know about the Nisus mob, but the Redlers are focussed (obsessively so, some would say) on building a "word-killer". I seriously doubt that they will release any software beyond Mellel in the short to medium term.

Btw: for those who are revolted by the brushed metal interface, they promised this recently on the mailing list in response to complaints about how butt-ugly it is considered to be: "The easy fix for this is to simply offer
an option for running Mellel with the aqua skin (and matching buttons),
which we are inclined to do at this point". Hooray for that.

Filemaker is a cross platform application so it isn't going to use anything that won't work in Windows too.

I really don't think Apple will tread on Microsoft's shoes, the risk is too high that they will just stop development of Office for Mac and in the process kill apples chances of expanding it's presence in the corporate and school markets.

OpenOffice is quite a nice product but it really isn't that compatible with MS Office documents and it's font support is terrible. The one thing that is really good is that it uses native CUPS printer drivers and they as such seem to be superior to the native OSX printer driver supplied my the printer manufacturers.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Addison Filemaker is a cross platform application so it isn't going to use anything that won't work in Windows too.

I vehemently disagree! If it makes the Mac-version better than the PC-version, why not? Infact Steve Jobs himself stood up on stage at WWDC and asked Adobe to do that very thing. He wanted them to integrate CoreImage into Photoshop, regardless of the fact that a similar technology isn't available yet on Windows. I mean, if not even Apple is willing to go through the added trouble of doing so for its *own* platform, then how can they possibly expect third-party developers to do so?

[BuonRotto]

If TextEdit gets some margins options and header/footer support, it will be good enough for a "free" app IMO. It's not AppleWorks in its heyday, but it's pretty nice.

I think Apple has given up on AppleWorks, but there are a few reasons. I think third parties have done a decent job of replacing its functionality for a reasonable price using Apple's technology in OS X, and I think Apple wants to see how they do with the many more available APIs in Tiger. I think Apple is being very strategic about what frameworks they develop as part of the OS, and that, for a while now, their development of text and graphic APIs has made the AppleWorks code obsolete. I think they're also being very sceptical towards projects like OpenOffice, because, like Mozilla, it can get way too cumbersome when they have much of the functionality from OpenStep/Mac OS X already avilable to them. Their priority is probably to keep the frameworks clear and neat. Finally, I don't think Apple sees a productivity suite as adding much to their bottom line. Office for education, which anyone can get really, is a good alternative, as are apps liike Mellel, Keynote, Create, Intaglio, Nisus Writer, etc. iLife is strategic, and the pro apps do have decent margins I think. Apple is including the functionality of a productivity suite in the OS, made some apps to show this, but I don't know if they want to invest in the suite itself any more. I think AppleWorks is dead. They should just pull it off shelves and let it die a quiet death.

[spotcatbug]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Apple owns Filemaker

Are you sure about that? I think it spun-off. It was owned by Claris which was owned by Apple, but I think now it's its own thing. I could be wrong, though. It would seem to fit, however.

[staph]

From filemaker.com:

"Ownership: FileMaker, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple Computer, Inc. (NASDAQ: AAPL)."

[Rhumgod]

I wonder how many minions there are still working on Appleworks? Two, maybe three? I think it is a doomed critter. I hate most things about Office, especially Microsoft's constant changing of views - Page Layout by default in Excel!?!?!?!? I use it to open files at work, but at home, BBEdit will be my text editor. I even use it (well, Dreamweaver mostly) for complex HTML coding. No need for over-marketed, rarely-used features that Word has.

By the way, where can I find AW 7? AW 6.2.9 is the latest that I have seen.

[oldmacfan]

Just to comment,

I used Appleworks to do 99% of my work at college, and I had straight A's. AppleWorks is not perfect, but it is not dead either. Yes, it needs to get out of its Carbon base, but what I like about it, is it's simplicity, I get my work done more quickly.

As far as I know, to use Open Office on Mac OS X, you need X11 and Panther. Please correct me if I am wrong. I use Panther at work, but not at home yet.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Addison [...] I really don't think Apple will tread on Microsoft's shoes, the risk is too high that they will just stop development of Office for Mac and in the process kill apples chances of expanding it's presence in the corporate and school markets. [...]

If so, then I think that they should work with MS to make Office better on the Mac. Surely something can be done to smooth its rough edges.

[Rhumgod]

Like full freaking Exchange support?!?!?!

[kscherer]

Maybe you guys have thought of this, maybe not. Apple may not WANT to improve AppleWorks simply because they NEED Office. Without Office, the whole "switch" campaign becomes a whole new challenge. Being able to market the Mac as working in a PC environment requires the availability of Office. Those PC users out there who might be in that rare "on-the-edge" phase of switching will almost always turn away from the Mac if Office is not an option.

Think of this scenerio:

Apple creates the worlds greatest office suite with new AppleWorks application. iTunes-like interface is simplest yet and incredibly powerful. All file types are compatible with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc. Microsoft sees Office Mac sales decline and eliminates Mac Business Unit. PC switchers, agrivated by the lack of Office availability on the Mac platform, refuse to switch. Mac sales slide. Jobs resigns. Apple dies a noisy death!

[futuretheory]

First off, yes Apple needs Office right now. MS doesn't own the world because of Windows, it owns it because of the proprietary Office formats that everyone is held hostage by. Slowly but surely, people are realizing this and taking a serious look at OpenOffice and Sun's take StarOffice, which uses the same formats.

It's about the data. Open formats are in our best interest and we need OpenOffice on Mac to be a serious thing. The best thing for the mac ever would be for StarOffice and OpenOffice to kick ass on Linux and Windows so that people move to in larger numbers. Whether it's now or later (strategic call regarding potential MS reaction), Appleworks needs be reborn using OpenOffice formats or Apple is being stupid. I actually believe this rebirth is happening which is why we haven't seen an update in so long.

Also, they may very well have cut a non-compete deal with Gates to keep Office on the platform...when this sunsets, expect a juicy iOffice app based on open formats.

[LudwigVan]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto I think AppleWorks is dead. They should just pull it off shelves and let it die a quiet death.

Like what Apple did with HyperCard...eventually?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by futuretheory First off, yes Apple needs Office right now. MS doesn't own the world because of Windows, it owns it because of the proprietary Office formats that everyone is held hostage by. Slowly but surely, people are realizing this and taking a serious look at OpenOffice and Sun's take StarOffice, which uses the same formats. It's about the data. Open formats are in our best interest and we need OpenOffice on Mac to be a serious thing. The best thing for the mac ever would be for StarOffice and OpenOffice to kick ass on Linux and Windows so that people move to in larger numbers. Whether it's now or later (strategic call regarding potential MS reaction), Appleworks needs be reborn using OpenOffice formats or Apple is being stupid. I actually believe this rebirth is happening which is why we haven't seen an update in so long. Also, they may very well have cut a non-compete deal with Gates to keep Office on the platform...when this sunsets, expect a juicy iOffice app based on open formats.

An interesting point. Some sort of non-compete thing may have came along during their techology sharing thing, although that expired a couple years ago. I think Apple will play it safe until there is a genuine, cross-platform competitor in the marketplace that has an installed base somewhere near 20 million.

[BarracksSi]

Originally Posted by kscherer Maybe you guys have thought of this, maybe not. Apple may not WANT to improve AppleWorks simply because they NEED Office.

I was thinking the same thing. Windows users are, for the most part, pretty ignorant about non-Microsoft software, and a whole lot of them don't know that OpenOffice and StarOffice even exist. They certainly won't take an Apple office suite seriously because "all Apple does is music and pretty pictures."

So, what do they ask about Mac? "I need something that'll run Office... oh, the Mac has Office?" If Microsoft decides to pull the Mac version of Office and update the Windows version so that it's incompatible with older ones (not impossible to envision), then every manufacturer with a currently Office-compatible suite will have a hell of a time staying afloat.

[madmaxmedia]

Awhile back, Apple hired 3 founders from the software company Gobe (www.gobe.com.) They sell a cool integrated productivity software that offers word processing, spreadsheet, and page layout features, with PDF and HTML exporting (so it probably could be for basic web editing too.)

Instead of creating a Word file for this, or an Excel file for that, with Gobe you create a single document and can put in whatever you want.

Such a program wouldn't compete directly with MS Office, but would be a very attractive alternate app for most users. It would only have a subset of Office features, but those would be enough for 99.5% of consumer users, and plenty of business users. Plus, with PDF, RTF, HTML export it could still at least be readable by others.

I bet that Apple hired these guys to develop a similar replacement or new version of Appleworks. I think this would be a really great program that would actually offer something new, instead of being another 'Office Lite'.