User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » AppleOutsider »

Keeping Soda fresh in a 2-liter bottle, the experiment begins..


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Keeping Soda fresh in a 2-liter bottle, the experiment begins..
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4  Next Thread Tools
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 00:06

So my wife and I were having a disagreement about the best way to keep 2-liter bottles of soda fresh - without the aide of special re-pressurizing attachments. My wife thinks it is wise to squeeze all of the extra air out of the bottle before capping it. I disagree. It would seem to me, that this gives the air in the soda too much room to escape, since it can just keep expanding the plastic before it ever reaches any kind of stabilizing pressure.

So, we picked up two bottles of Diet Dr. Pepper (our favorite) and will proceed as follows:

We will empty an equal amount from each bottle, then squeeze the air out of one, but not the other, and re-cap them.

Simple, yes?

But other details are less certain. When, and how often should we check for freshness. Obviously, the more it is opened, the faster it will go flat. Also, we don't have any room in the fridge, so they will have to remain on the counter. Might this negatively impact the integrity of the experiment? At least they will both be in the same environment, so it should be "fair", just maybe not optimal for finding out just how long the winner would remain fresh.

Feel free to share any thoughts, or opinions on which you think will win, and I will post results as they come in.

Now I need to go drink some Dr. Pepper.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
digitalprimate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
 
2007-04-04, 00:11

Hmmmm... at first sight, I would agree with your wife, but yes, the bottle will expand more easily, thus creating more gas to fill the vacuum until the walls of the bottle start to resist. One might even try and experiment by filling a standard balloon with the same amount of soda, as a third container and a GLASS bottle as a fourth...

EDIT: Oh, and I would advise against drinking fizzy drinks, as they erode your teeth. No longer holes in your teeth are the problem, dissappearing teeth are, apparently.
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2007-04-04, 00:21

You need to wrap the bottles with tin foil to keep in the Carbon Dioxide.
Wrap something in it anyway.
  quote
Majost
monkey with a tiny cymbal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
 
2007-04-04, 00:23

There's absolutely no question, zippy... you leave as much air in there as possible.

Carbon Dioxide only stays dissolved in liquid if it is pressurized. That's why new sodas release air when opening them. By keeping as much air in the bottle as possible, you allow pressure to build back up in the bottle. Although some carbon dioxide will initially be released, you'll be taking advantage of it.

If you squeeze out the extra air, you'll never pressurize the bottle to be more than the ambient pressure -- the bottle itself will just expand back out to its original shape.

Now, if it makes any noticeable difference, that's a different question. But there's no way the latter will keep it fresh longer.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 00:33

digitalprimate - good suggestions, we might have to do some extra experiments based on what we find in the initial study. As for the teeth, I ground enough of mine off in my sleep over my life that they're disappearing already.

drewprops - I may wrap my wife in tinfoil if she'll let me, could make for a nice sci-fi fantasy

Majost - that's the principle I'm going on. We'll see if there is a detectable difference, but I think the science of it seems clear.


Further info:
we've decided to open them once a day and poor equal sized glasses from each. They have been set off to the side in order to minimize the risk of being knocked over, an event that would severely compromise the entire study.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2007-04-04, 00:33

Yeah, your wife is totally wrong. Bet her something worth your time. It will be worth it.

The main factor though is to make sure the tops are on tight enough. Both bottles will have enough CO2 dissolved in them to repressurize the bottle, so whichever one has the cap on tighter will win.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
  quote
Majost
monkey with a tiny cymbal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
 
2007-04-04, 00:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy View Post
Further info:
we've decided to open them once a day and poor equal sized glasses from each. They have been set off to the side in order to minimize the risk of being knocked over, an event that would severely compromise the entire study.
Hint: The less you open them, the more the results will be in your favor. See if you can change the protocol to every other or even every third day.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 00:38

I think we'll probably have to do at least a round two experiment after all of this. Maybe I could just drop a Mentos in her bottle without her seeing.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2007-04-04, 04:08

Surface area of the liquid/air boundary should have an influence, logically.

Bottles upright will have only the cross sectional area of the bottle as a state boundary.

Bottles on their side will have a larger surface area boundary. Worse, I would think.

I squeeze the extra air out (which mashes the bottle in and limits surface area). Seems to work, but YMMV.

Sounds like one for the Mythbusters. As long as they can make it explode at the end.

All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 08:53

We won't do the open-and-pour-a-new-glass test until this evening, but after about 8 hours, the bottle that had all the air squeezed out, is almost completely back to original shape - meaning much air has escaped the soda. The bottle that did not have the air squeezed out, has that nice, firm, pressurized feel. Obviously some air has escaped, but how much is unknown.

I would say that Majost's suggestion about waiting longer than one day to test would help my theory, but after seeing the bottles this morning, I'm feeling pretty confident that once a day will be sufficient to prove my theory. Besides, it may be more of a real-world test this way.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
joveblue
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2007-04-04, 09:09

You can't have done the lids up very tightly if it's nearly back to original shape?
  quote
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2007-04-04, 09:13

Actually if he did the lid tightly it would be back to the original shape, as escaping CO2 from the soda would repressurize the bottle. If the top weren't on tightly, the CO2 gas would escape from the top, and not be pushing against the walls of the bottle, and wouldn't make it reform.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 09:19

Trust me, the lids are on tight - I'm not a small fella, and I cranked them down pretty hard. And alcimedes is right, it's the tightness that is keeping the CO2 from escaping.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2007-04-04, 10:27

You're right, this is TOTALLY Mythbusters!!!
  quote
EmC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Columbus, Georgia
Send a message via AIM to EmC Send a message via Skype™ to EmC 
2007-04-04, 10:59

Colder liquids can hold more gas dissolved in them.
  quote
julesstoop
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands
 
2007-04-04, 11:04

- Keep the air in;
- keep it as cool as possible but not subzero;
- put it in glas or metal or some other less permiable container: plastic will leak.
  quote
Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2007-04-04, 11:10

You know, this would make a great "As seen on TV" product" if someone made a 2-liter container you could pour your carbonated beverages in, and recompress with your hand (e.g. push the lid down) and it had a mean to hold the re-compressed air space without leaking carbon dioxide. No moving or mechnical parts would make it quite practical and cheap.
  quote
pscates2.0
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2007-04-04, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Sounds like one for the Mythbusters. As long as they can make it explode at the end.
And as long as Kari can do the testing in her bathing suit. Or something.

Unfortunately, I think that show is hitting a wall here lately. Don't enjoy it like I used to.

I quit buying two-liter beverages a long, long time ago because of the fizzy/flat problem. I get the 12-16oz. bottles of Dr. Pepper. Or even the cans.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 11:22

I'm coming to realize the true humanitarian importance of this endeavor. As such, I have decided to invest a proportionate sum of money and order one of these thingies:


I plan to sell enough of my current investments to free up the requisite $2.79 plus shipping. Of course I will share the results with everyone here even before I am published in some fancy schmancy scientific magazines.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
  quote
johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2007-04-04, 11:25

After opening and pouring a drink...

1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate balloon as much as possible.
3. Tie and stuff the end into the bottle.
4. Recap the bottle.


EDIT: or buy the above thingy.

Hey, are we talking science experiment or practicality?

EDIT 2: Or how about this? (Less spittle this way)
1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate balloon as much as possible.
3. Tie the end. No need to cap.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

Last edited by johnq : 2007-04-04 at 11:38.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 11:37

Ooohh, Bonanza!

I also found this little number:


Hmm.. both for $5.78 plus shipping. I'll need to consult with my accountant, but this is just too damn important to pass up. My fellow ANers at the very least are in dire need of proper info - right?

OK, stop twisting my arm, I'll do it.

I'm headed for financial ruin. There's no question.

Results just wouldn't be accurate without also getting this little unit:


That's another $5.99 plus shipping.

Damn you Amazon.......................

Edit: Damn you auto post merging....................

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq View Post
After opening and pouring a drink...

1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate baloon as much as possible.
3. Tie and stuff the end into the bottle.
4. Recap the bottle.


EDIT: or buy the above thingy.

Hey, are we talking science experiment or practicality?

EDIT 2: Or how about this? (Less spittle this way)
1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate baloon as much as possible.
3. Tie the end. No need to cap.
Hmm.. good ideas. Methinks non-latex would be safest - just in case we have company. This could be a cheaper solution - depending on how long any of the above units last (assuming they work, but then the advertisements say they do, so they must, right?). Removal of the balloon needs to be done with care - a quick pop, might disturb the soda and cause a sudden rush of CO2 release. Also, I wouldn't want shards of balloon floating around. But a carefull Snip right near the knot should allow for a slower release, and complete removal of the balloon.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!

Last edited by zippy : 2007-04-04 at 11:37. Reason: Posts merged
  quote
Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2007-04-04, 11:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
And as long as Kari can do the testing in her bathing suit. Or something..
I presume this is one of 26,000 valid reasons to not run for any political positions?

"Mr. President, amid the controversy over a GIF of Sheryl Crow making a suggestive gesture and asking you to call her allegedly made by you, an undisclosed source claims that you recruited your all-female cabinet for ulterior motive. Is this true?"

"Well, they're a bunch of great girls. They know their job. Of course if they get out of line, we have ourselves a little spanking session, but I assure you, they're fantastic. Now, we were talking about domestic policy?"

I dunno. Seems more like a reason to run rather not to.

Anyway, we're supposed to be talking fizzs, not foxes.
  quote
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2007-04-04, 12:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Surface area of the liquid/air boundary should have an influence, logically.

Bottles upright will have only the cross sectional area of the bottle as a state boundary.

Bottles on their side will have a larger surface area boundary. Worse, I would think.

I squeeze the extra air out (which mashes the bottle in and limits surface area). Seems to work, but YMMV.

Sounds like one for the Mythbusters. As long as they can make it explode at the end.
That will only be true if we are talking about kinetics of CO2 release, but we're not... These bottles are at equilibrium.
  quote
johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2007-04-04, 13:02

1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate balloon as much as possible until soda doesn't rise anymore.
3. Put a twist tie on the end. No need to cap.

I think this would work. But I haven't tested it in the field.

OR: (If you are near a water source)

1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Fill balloon with water.
3. Put a twist tie on the end. No need to cap.

All we are trying to do is replace the missing volume of liquid (and hence pressure) from the bottle, right? So it doesn't NEED to be a gas we are using, right?

Keep in mind I'm bad at basic science.

I always said soda should come in toothpaste-like tubes so you can squeeze it and force the soda to be in a smaller area to the top as you go. The interior of the tube could be lined with a substance that uses the Van der Waals force so it stays joined after you squeeze.

Okay...patent time.

™ & © and patent pending - 2007 johnq

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2007-04-04, 16:09

I have like 6 soda kegs in my basement that are normally used for beer (smaller, so you can fit two in a kegerator instead of 1! Why don't I just buy several gallons of coke and stick them in that…it'll stay carbonated, and I can dispense it like a fountain soda then.
  quote
AsLan^
Not a tame lion...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
 
2007-04-04, 17:56

What if you just put the lid on normally and store the bottle upside down?
  quote
Enki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
 
2007-04-04, 18:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq View Post
1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Inflate balloon as much as possible until soda doesn't rise anymore.
3. Put a twist tie on the end. No need to cap.

I think this would work. But I haven't tested it in the field.

OR: (If you are near a water source)

1. Insert deflated balloon in bottle.
2. Fill balloon with water.
3. Put a twist tie on the end. No need to cap.

All we are trying to do is replace the missing volume of liquid (and hence pressure) from the bottle, right? So it doesn't NEED to be a gas we are using, right?

Keep in mind I'm bad at basic science.

I always said soda should come in toothpaste-like tubes so you can squeeze it and force the soda to be in a smaller area to the top as you go. The interior of the tube could be lined with a substance that uses the Van der Waals force so it stays joined after you squeeze.

Okay...patent time.

™ & © and patent pending - 2007 johnq
The water in teh balloon would work, but not the air. Compressibility of air kills that.
  quote
zippy
Formerly "zippy"
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
 
2007-04-04, 18:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsLan^ View Post
What if you just put the lid on normally and store the bottle upside down?
I've heard that one before, but I really don't see how that would be any different than putting the lid on and leaving it right-side up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki View Post
The water in teh balloon would work, but not the air. Compressibility of air kills that.
Good point. I think the key is whether you could get the air in the balloon in such a way that it already had more pressure than just the standing air in a bottle that was simply re-capped. After thinking about it, I'm honestly not sure whether you could be successful at this or not.

The water ideal may work better, but what a pain in the butt.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!

Last edited by zippy : 2007-04-04 at 18:07. Reason: Posts merged
  quote
FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2007-04-04, 18:28

The air in the balloon would indeed work. It's at a higher pressure, AND it's a sealed system of its own. The soda would have to release enough CO2 to physically compress the sealed balloon, and that's not gonna happen.

This engineer gives your idea Two Thumbs Up, johnq. I think you might want to add a balloon bottle to your test, zippy.
  quote
cosus
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: El Rio de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles
Send a message via ICQ to cosus Send a message via AIM to cosus Send a message via MSN to cosus Send a message via Yahoo to cosus Send a message via Skype™ to cosus 
2007-04-04, 19:10

Why not just buy cans of soda and rid yourself of this excess labor?
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:46.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014, AppleNova