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Will the Nintendo DS fail? I think it will.


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Will the Nintendo DS fail? I think it will.
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usurp
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2004-11-21, 07:56

I was just at IGN now checking out what games are coming out on the Nintendo DS since I am thinking about getting one. I found Ridge Racer. I love racing games and one i saw the graphics of the DS game i was like wow, ps1 graphics on a portable!! amazing i want it!!

a few minutes later i go to the PSP page also on ign and i see screenshots of the PSP version of ridge racer.

what a fucking big difference!!

so will the DS succeed? i doubt, i think it will another virtual boy. the second screen isnt that special. the stylus i doubt will be practical and the graphics.. well compared to the GBA SP they are cool, but compared to the PSP they are so 90's..

the games? PSP's line up sounds a lot more interesting with large PS2 franchises moving to PSP. The DS lineup is similar to the gamecubes... crap (no offence to anyone.. i own a gamecube myself and not a ps2).

the only advantage i see in the DS is the battery life. perfect for travelling... but then i only travel once a year so for me i would rather get a short battery life but better graphics.




here is the DS version



here is the PSP version


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Xidius
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2004-11-21, 08:28

Yeah, the idea of two screens is unique.. but not that great for games. Especially when you are sacrificing raw graphic power for it.

I am going to be buying a PSP. It's sexy and wide-screen. It'll match the U2 iPod I plan on purchasing, and my 17" Powerbook. =D

- Xidius
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Eugene
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2004-11-21, 09:34

You're not the only one. There is a DS thread at the other place where I echo the same sentiment.

It's a mini-version of a system originally released in 1995, for crying out loud. It is capable of 1995 era graphics. The PSP is in several respects better hardware than the PS2, which is 5 years fresher than the N64.

The people in that thread are going gaga over the touch-sensitive screen control. I played Metroid DS in EBX last night as it was extremely unintuitive. I like how tacojohn compares the N64 to the PSOne as if to imply the PSP is based on the PSOne...

It's a shame that it's only the old-school Nintendo fans that actually see the DS's impending disappointment. I remember receiving my original NES Deluxe Edition for Christmas in 1984. Tacojohn would have been 2 years old. Gyromite, Gumshoe, Mach Rider...I doubt he's ever played any of those games...

Last edited by Eugene : 2004-11-21 at 09:40.
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alcimedes
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2004-11-21, 10:00

i'm not sure either system will do all that well.

the DS is too large and awkward to use. the PSP is too damn big, and the battery life is short. i don't think either system will do well.

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Luca
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2004-11-21, 11:20

And the other problem is that Nintendo will continue to rely on their old franchises to bring in the cash. I think it's a major problem - Zelda, Mario and Metroid are popular, but not popular enough to appeal to enough people. The hardcore Nintendo fans are providing Nintendo with all their sales. I was talking with some friends the other day and realized that the GC really doesn't have many good, exclusive games outside of the big franchises. I mentioned a few that I thought were great, and it was met with "yeah, but that's out for such and such system too."

Nintendo has run into such a drought of good games that I'm now planning on selling my GameCube. My next system won't be from Nintendo. The PS2 and XBox simply offer a better variety of games that aren't all aimed at the nostalgia crowd.

I think it would be interesting if Sony were to try to develop a portable system with PS1-level graphics that costs about $100 and is as small and light as the GBA:SP. That would utterly slaughter the DS. Right now I think the DS sales will be poor because if you want good graphics in a portable, you'll get the PSP, but if you want something inexpensive, the small and light GBA:SP will serve you better and has a larger game library.
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torifile
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2004-11-21, 12:31

I've thought about selling my GCN too but I got for a xmas present from my wife and she doesn't understand that tech is fickle and would be disappointed if I did. But no NCAA B-Ball '05 on the GC is killing me.

That and I'd love to play GTA:SA.
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applenut
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2004-11-21, 12:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by usurp
the only advantage i see in the DS is the battery life. perfect for travelling... but then i only travel once a year so for me i would rather get a short battery life but better graphics.
what is the purpose of a portable gaming system if battery life does not mean anything to you?

and I have a feeling, that, eventhough you think it wont be annoying, that when you're PSP dies in 3-5 hours.... you'll be pretty pissed and get pretty tired of it quickly.

I respect Nintendo for trying to innovate and develop new ways of gaming. Sony is going more of the typical raw power route. I think Nintendo will come out on top pretty easily here. Although I will never buy one as long as they are as big as they are now and I still consider the DS's battery life too short
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Wrao
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2004-11-21, 13:14

I dunno, the DS is backwards compatible with *the largest library of games available on any system* That's going to make it very hard for PSP methinks.
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Luca
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2004-11-21, 13:36

Remember that the DS can only play GBA games in addition to DS games. You can't get out your 12-year-old Tetris game and have it just work in a DS.

Anyway, the DS is certainly unique. Having two screens is interesting, and wireless gaming and chat is really cool for such a little system. Then again, it seems a bit awkward - to control certain games, for instance, you have to put this thing over your thumb and use it on the touch screen, while your right hand manipulates the buttons. That strikes me as a bit Virtual Boy-esque... why couldn't they keep it simpler? Like, instead of having to use the touch screen for analog control, they could have made some kind of a flat analog stick instead.
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alcimedes
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2004-11-21, 13:36

well, i don't think either one will do well to be honest. i've got a GBA SP. it's perfect. it's tiny, fits right in your pocket. long battery life, tons of games etc.

i looked at a DS the other day, and it's just too big. damn thing has piles of unused space in it. the only real advantage it offers is the wireless gaming. however, if i'm going to be gaming with a group of people, we'll end up on a console and a large TV anyway.

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murbot
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2004-11-21, 13:48

You youngin's and yer technologicaltality. I still have my original GameBoy sitting on the back of my toilet.

That game has helped me through some pretty rough bowel movements. I love that little guy.

*sniff*
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Koodari
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2004-11-21, 15:57

Nintendo is the Apple of consoles. They do their thing, compete with original style and consistent quality and leave the rest of the market to the competitors. Nintendo doesn't exactly fill the market in here, but in Japan they're huge. Nintendo is what I'd buy for kids, and I might still end up getting a GC for myself if I see one cheap enough. XBox I would never buy for games, but I could make a media center PC out of one.

Forgot to add why the above is relevant to thread: I think Nintendo will once again totally dominate the handheld market. Their game making philosophy works even better there than it does on normal consoles. PSP in particular will prove pretty unsuccessful, since they choose to sacrifice portability. I don't foresee a Nintendo handheld killer anytime soon; it'll probably be a mobile phone (so that people can rationalize slightly poorer gaming experience than with Nintendo, and yet buy the machine) but the gaming side can't be an afterthought, it must be really good. N-gage doesn't cut it.

Last edited by Koodari : 2004-11-21 at 16:03.
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Eugene
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2004-11-21, 17:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile
I've thought about selling my GCN too but I got for a xmas present from my wife and she doesn't understand that tech is fickle and would be disappointed if I did. But no NCAA B-Ball '05 on the GC is killing me.

That and I'd love to play GTA:SA.
Yeah, and I'm very bitter about Nintendo's lack online gaming initative for the GC, and the lack of the latest ESPN (SEGA) games like NFL 2K5 for $20!
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Eugene
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2004-11-21, 17:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by applenut
what is the purpose of a portable gaming system if battery life does not mean anything to you?

and I have a feeling, that, eventhough you think it wont be annoying, that when you're PSP dies in 3-5 hours.... you'll be pretty pissed and get pretty tired of it quickly.

I respect Nintendo for trying to innovate and develop new ways of gaming. Sony is going more of the typical raw power route. I think Nintendo will come out on top pretty easily here. Although I will never buy one as long as they are as big as they are now and I still consider the DS's battery life too short
It's easier to release a Mk II PSP with better battery life than it is to redo the DS and make it a decent gaming platform... The two small screens are a limiting factor. You can't put them together and make one seamless big screen, but you can vice-versa with the PSP. The DS is less about innovation than it is about appealing to younger kids (as usual) and old, old fanboys who remember playing the Game & Watch double-screen handhelds.
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Mac+
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2004-11-21, 18:06

Well colour me an old-old-old fanboy ... I still remember the single small screen (*not* widescreen) Game & Watch of "Manhole".
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torifile
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2004-11-21, 21:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene
old, old fanboys who remember playing the Game & Watch double-screen handhelds.
Dude, those things kicked ass! I had forgotten all about them until you mentioned it.
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ast3r3x
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2004-11-21, 21:49

As far as I'm concerned, portable gaming died out when the Lynx did.

My Lynx II was great. Still would be if the B button didn't break and pretend to be constantly held down.



As far as comparing Nintendo to Apple. Don't, it's silly. Also...xbox is the best console on the market to be honest.
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billybobsky
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2004-11-21, 21:54

I appear to be missing the entire game & watch period of my life... But most people don't remember the disk cameras so I still have that to fall back on when recalling my misspent youth...
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drewprops
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2004-11-21, 22:51

I don't know if the DS will fail or not, but I'm getting one. My yellow-bodied GB was stolen while I was working out of town and I'm hankering for some Dr.Mario action. Which also reminds me that I need to get a copy of the new Paper Mario.

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usurp
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2004-11-21, 23:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by applenut
what is the purpose of a portable gaming system if battery life does not mean anything to you?

and I have a feeling, that, eventhough you think it wont be annoying, that when you're PSP dies in 3-5 hours.... you'll be pretty pissed and get pretty tired of it quickly.

I respect Nintendo for trying to innovate and develop new ways of gaming. Sony is going more of the typical raw power route. I think Nintendo will come out on top pretty easily here. Although I will never buy one as long as they are as big as they are now and I still consider the DS's battery life too short

The purpose of portable gaming for me is that i can play with the PSP while i am in bed, while i am at work, while i am waiting for my wife at the dentist. Just to pass time in places where i dont have my xbox and 34inch tv with me. I do not need 18 hours of battery, although it would be convinient. i dont remember the last time i charged my gameboy sp, like 4 or 5 months ago maybe or longer and it still hasnt given me the low battery light.

in any case if i need longer battery life i got my sp.. and my game & watches to play with onthe plane

i swear, if you play mario bros when stoned you could play for hours and enjoy every second of it.




for those of you who think Nintendo always come up with good ideas... u must have forgotten about the virtual boy!!

I think the Sega Nomad was the best portable video game system of its time. If only the battery life with that wasnt so terrible or if it only had built in rechargable batteries it would have been cool. It played all sega genesis games, u could plus the sytem to the tv and play there, u could even plug in a second controller and play 2 player games. that was a cool system.

Lynx was also cool but i got the gamegear back then. my friend had the lynx and i used to love playing california games.

ps: i will probably be getting the nintendo ds anyway just because its not expensive and i love video games.. the SP is too small for my hands and if i can play Metroid on the DS on a brighter screen with better speakers and a more comfortable fit into my hands, then i am happy.

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Last edited by usurp : 2004-11-21 at 23:34.
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Luca
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2004-11-21, 23:32

I've never seen that style Game & Watch before... I was more familiar with this one:



After seeing that it makes it seem as though Nintendo didn't actually design the system that way because it was a good idea, only because they wanted it to resemble the old ones as closely as possible.
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Eugene
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2004-11-22, 00:00

usurp, nice! I have that one somewhere. I also have the essential Donkey Kong game.
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Xaqtly
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2004-11-22, 00:01

I think there's a certain irony in comparing the DS's graphics to the PSP's, and saying the DS will fail because of it. Rewind to 1996, when the Nintendo system was the hot new Nintendo 64, with graphics easily superior to anything available on the rookie Playstation system. The Playstation's graphics were blocky and choppy, most games had a draw distance of about 2 feet, there were aliasing problems and it was incredibly difficult to program for, at least compared to the N64. The Playstation's library was absolute crap for the first year of its existence, while the N64 had Mario right off the bat. The winner was obvious.

If that example tells you anything, it should be that graphics alone do not a system make. It's quite possible that the DS's slick networking implementation, innovative use of the dual screens and the near total domination of the portable game market (thanks to being able to play all GB games) will easily outweigh any graphical differences.
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usurp
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2004-11-22, 00:15

yeah but before they had 2 screens for a good reason, the screens had fixed backgrounds and stuff and you couldnt scroll the screen. the issues they had in the early 80s have been solved now. so the second screen on the nintendo is not as practical or should i say does not serve an important role as it did on the game & watches. having a map display all the time on the bottom screen is not really a big deal. on mario kart on the SNES there was a map plastered on the bottom half of the screen and i always wished it wasnt there.

now maybe later on some publisher will come out with a good practical idea for the bottom screen , but till then i dont think it will be a big plus.

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Eugene
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2004-11-22, 00:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly
I think there's a certain irony in comparing the DS's graphics to the PSP's, and saying the DS will fail because of it. Rewind to 1996, when the Nintendo system was the hot new Nintendo 64, with graphics easily superior to anything available on the rookie Playstation system. The Playstation's graphics were blocky and choppy, most games had a draw distance of about 2 feet, there were aliasing problems and it was incredibly difficult to program for, at least compared to the N64. The Playstation's library was absolute crap for the first year of its existence, while the N64 had Mario right off the bat. The winner was obvious.

If that example tells you anything, it should be that graphics alone do not a system make. It's quite possible that the DS's slick networking implementation, innovative use of the dual screens and the near total domination of the portable game market (thanks to being able to play all GB games) will easily outweigh any graphical differences.
I didn't touch the N64 with a ten-foot pole. It didn't appeal to me at all. There are diehard N64 fans out there, I know, but I think the majority of Nintendo fans would agree it was a flop. The achilles heel of the N64 was cartridge capacity and the price of games. Those are the same weaknesses the DS will have today considering how huge games are getting. Look at PC games like EQ2...It ships on ten CDs.

I think if Nintendo really wanted to be innovative, it wouldn't have used two screens at all, but ONE large touchscreen. And in addition, the use of CDs in the playstation allowed it to have much richer textures. Is there anything on the N64 that looks as good as the original Gran Turismo in high-res mode?

Citing Mario as a killer app is silly. 3D Mario is and forever will be an abomination.

Last edited by Eugene : 2004-11-22 at 00:48.
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usurp
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2004-11-22, 00:36

usually in console wars, one system will always have better graphics then the other, thats natural, and better graphics didnt mean better games or a more successful system.

BUT, there usually is a small difference in the graphics. The xbox has better graphics in the PS2 but its usually sharper textures, more advanced lighting etc.

with the DS vs PSP there is a bigger difference. its not comparing the N64 to the PS1, its the N64 vs the PS2. 2 generations worth of advances seperating the two devices. the DS will look outdated as soon as the PSP is released.

on a side note i would like to add its feels good to be arguing about 2 video game systems. i miss the SNES vs Genesis war and am always trying to find someone to argue with on that but cant seem to find anyone still willing to stand up for the Genesis. i think the DS vs PSP will be a good fight.

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Koodari
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2004-11-22, 01:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by ast3r3x
As far as comparing Nintendo to Apple. Don't, it's silly. Also...xbox is the best console on the market to be honest.
First, I think the parallel between Nintendo and Apple is obvious. Quality over quantity, quality over price. Tight focus on a certain kind of experience. Both develop major software titles and design the hardware in-house. Both have a loyal following, and then there are those who just "don't get it".

Second, I'm guessing you play different type of games than I do. XBox (we're talking about unmodded, with standard controllers, right?) controllers are clunky. Nowhere near as responsive than PS2's, and my favorite game genre lives and dies by the controller. I originally bought PS2 just for Virtua Fighter which is exclusive to that platform, and though I have other games, I still haven't played them much compared to VF4Evo. I have Soul Calibur 2. I am going to get GTA:SA and Guilty Gear X2. Those are all cross platform. I have Gran Turismo 3 A-spec, going to get GT4 when it's done. Those are PS2 only. Neo Contra is on the way - PS2 only. I might visit Tekken4 some day - PS2 only. To date I don't know of a XBox exclusive game that I would be interested in. The FPS's all come out on PC, are better with mouse and keyboard. Halo specifically I just don't like, no matter which platform. On the other hand, on the Gamecube I have several games I'd like to play: Pikmin, Super Monkeyball, Wind Waker, Ikaruga. GC is also cheaper than the PS2 and XBox, so more reasonable to own just for a few games. A console doesn't necessarily have to provide a steady stream of games to the end of the world, even if that's a plus - if it has a few amazingly good ones, that is enough of a reason to own it.

IMO XBox's best features are the hard drive (also the possibility to put in a larger one) and network adapter. Good if you run Linux, XBMC or otherwise mod the console. I might still do that if I find a sub-$100 XBox.
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usurp
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2004-11-22, 01:50

come on dude u cant be serious. if you are into fighting games then what other better system to have then an xbox.

Does PS2 have SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos? NO

that would be enough to end the argument on which system has better fighting games but i will continue a bit more just for the entertainment.

We have Dead or Alive, we have Guilty Gear X2 #Reload, we have the best version of Soul Caliber 2 and if you have a modded xbox then you can get tons of NeoGeo fighting games and all the Capcom Street fighting games for the xbox.

I love lord of the rings, this is why i only watch the extended version. I am willing to wait for the extended version to be released because thats the best version. Same with GTA. I love GTA and if it means i have to wait a couple of months for GTA San Andreas to be released on the xbox with superior graphics and all the bugs fixed then its worth it. After playing GTA on the xbox and watched my brother play GTA SA on his PS2 its depressing to watch.

is Doom 3 coming out on the ps2 by any chance? NO


anyway, i am not biased towards the PS2 because I have an XBOX. I have all the major systems that were released since 1980s till now including the PS2 and the GameCube. I just buy systems to play certain games. Got the GameCube for Metroid Prime. Got the GBA for Metroid also (which btw i prefer over the gamecubes version). I got the PS2 for GranTurismo and Metal Gear.

At the moment though i dont know whats PS2 advantage over xbox. Xbox has more and better racings games, some of the best RPGs and all the sport games the ps2 has except with better graphics. Only advantage PS2 has i think is Gran Turismo and i am hoping Xbox's La Forza will be the Gran Turismo killer.

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usurp
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2004-11-22, 02:24

Tokyo Xtreme on PSP
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Akumulator
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2004-11-22, 03:46

I played one today at Target. It actually is kind of cool. The touch screen was hard and not at all mashy as I, for some reason, was imagining. The graphics looked good.. better than N64 I think.. from what I saw. Metroid was kind of dark and I found myself really close to the top screen.

It was a little awkward at first using the touch screen to look around in Metroid Prime, but it really wasn't that bad. I'm still waiting for a PSP, but I'm actually liking the DS and $150 not a lot.
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