Mac Mini Maniac
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Sounds a lot like a depression to me. That's not just some fancy name, it's a physiological condition. (some receptors in the brain go out of whack so something isn't right)
Give her a test? http://www.med.nyu.edu/psych/screens/depres.html In short, you're doing a great job as it is. The hard part is to make her realize that she has a mental problem, and overcome it. After having been married for a long time, and looking at the problems you are having which is obviously annoying, you may not be as romantically attentive as you could be. In order for her to accept your suggestions, she may need to feel that you love her. Converted 07/2005. Last edited by Windswept : 2008-01-28 at 16:37. |
feeling my oats
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with some of the extra money, hire a once a week worker to come and do some cleaning and the laundry...
that way she sees that you can't easily replace her, that you too need some extra help and that some of her earning a salary is actually going to hire somebody to do some of her old work... you'll still be way ahead financially, she won't feel so easily replaced, the laundry can be done on the day she likes while you still have the weekend free to do family stuff g ps...the 20 detentions a day worries me a bit too....but i don't know her situation, nor if this is maybe also a bit of an exaggeration....i do think the stress of a job, vs staying at home, will add a painful dynamic for at least a while...i do like the pounds lost though and would encourage and highlight that often to her unless she hates compliments like my wife...then it is easier not to point it out often crazy is not a rare human condition everything is food if you chew hard enough |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
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Then again, maybe I just wish somebody would come do our laundry more often. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
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What grade does the wife teach? ABout half my friends are teachers or are married to teachers and I don't think I've ever heard them mention that many detentions over the course of the year. I'm a female witha short fuse, by now I would have told her to get over herself many times. But I'll cut her some slack and assume that being out of the job market so long is to blame. A lot of folks that take a long break have problems adjusting, often they act like their job is very demanding and taking over their lives. Maybe this will pass. |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston
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"miserable" is something that people carry within themselves between their ears. It has nothing to do with the physical world, bank accounts, etc.
Like the old saying, "it isn't what you go through, it is how you go through it." You seem a bit more balanced in life than she is, and you are troubled by her lack of balance. While nothing you described is "wrong," the think you need to "fix" is yourself. You need to find a way to teach your "balance" to her, and, of course, continue to improve upon your own. I am not suggesting that this is easy, only that it is the path. The number of detentions that she handed out would indicate that she is stressed out, and the kids are picking up on that vibe. So why did she go back to work? The answer (hopefully) is that she has something to share within herself. If she arrives as a basket-case, then she is poisoning the kids, not teaching them. So it is very important that she get an objective look at herself, and the fact that she is creating this misery she feels. While you can make things run better at home, it doesn't take much to accommodate certain requests. For example, doing laundry on Sunday isn't going to kill you, and if it makes her feel like the kids are not properly prepared, etc., it is an easy request for you to accommodate. As always, you must choose your fights carefully. Adding to the angst because of the laundry is unnecessary on your part. While you have a long list of changes that you expect from her, don't forget that you need a list as long for yourself, too. And if you object to "one more change," then you should get a sense of how she feels, too. The great irony in life, (or as you put it "paradox of paradoxes,") is that people fear change as much as they desire it. No progress is possible without change, and yet there is always the possibility that a change for the worse can occur, too. This is why balance is so important. Any problem can be fixed if people have the right attitude. The things that generically trip people up are fear, pride and greed, either individually or in some toxic combination. Losing weight is about pride, taking a new job is about fear, etc., so she is struggling with changes that you do not have to make. Keep that in mind. Your changes are pretty minor compared to hers. Help her through the changes that are important (her job and self-esteem, etc.,) and stop whining about how it is effecting you, and bragging about you are a super-hero because you can now fold the laundry and balance a checkbook. Your thinking your fecal matter doesn't stink is contributing the problem, (which is what I meant by how pride trips people up.) good luck. |
owner for sale by house
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Faust brings up a good point: does she have any close, female friends? You guys being best friends and all is all good and well, but a little girl-to-girl straight-talk will perhaps give her some perspective and have more impact than the same (or similar things) coming from you.
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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You just had to throw that last paragraph in there, didn't you? You are trying hard once more to show everyone just how much wisdom you believe yourself to possess, but sadly you are not convincing most of the time. While some of your comments make sense, as with other topics your conclusions are freakin' comical. I didn't get the impression from the original posting that Trumpetman was whining or bragging. He was asking for ideas to help solve a situation (which he described in some detail so we could give better answers), because he is rightly concerned about improving things in his home before they get out of hand. He's taking a pretty reasoned and responsible approach if you want my opinion. Most guys wouldn't have enough character to set aside their pride, admit some marital difficulties, and ask others for ideas. In short, your assessments above say more about you then they do about Trumpetman. Arrogant jackass. Try a little humility and posting with a tone that indicates you believe yourself to be a peer, not a person giving advice from on high. You might like the results. ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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hustlin
Join Date: May 2004
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Sounds a lot like turf battles over the lack of well-defined roles and specializations. It's hard to work as a team in those situations. Picking up tasks that were previously formally designated as someone else's responsibilities when he or she is still around is always tough and needs to be handled with care. Dropping down on someone else's game and schooling them about it is a pretty standard recipe for trouble.
I feel it's often better to manage roles at a higher level, focusing on skills rather than specific tasks. Tasks then get divvied up in a natural, more flexible way and people can even work on the same task in a way that's productive. Owning tasks is good if there is some crucial value added by some skill only one person has, but otherwise it creates barriers where they don't need to be. For instance, the laundry. If one person is better at finding deals, then that person naturally should be dealing with any tasks related to that, in this case buying laundry baskets. But as far as the task of doing laundry itself it's a non-issue. Here's how that conversation should have gone: Quote:
There do seem to be personality issues on both sides, though. On her side, the detention thing is a red flag. On the other side: He's making a good point in a harsh way. The problem isn't so much the OP's apparent belief that he's the best laundry folder in the world, it's that (according to the exchanges he posted) he's basically breaking it down for her in a way that becomes classic micromanaging. Sometimes it's a problem to be so anal that you know there are exactly four days worth of clean clothes left, which is OK as long as other people aren't burdened with it. And the detention lecture missed the forest for the trees. The near-term problem isn't the inefficiency of her method (focusing on that is, again, classic micromanaging). The problem is that the high number of detentions is indicative of other, more pervasive issues she's having with dealing with these kids, ie, other people & work. |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston
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There are two sides to every story, I was showing how his wife might interpret his attitude about his new role. Of course, he could show his post to his wife, not to us, but he is trying to sort out his feelings, as well. As I said at my open, he has more balance than her, but he IS out of balance, too. Hence his plea for advice. I gave him my view of the ENTIRE situation. Thus his "humility" also has an element of fear and pride in it. If you disagree, that's fine. I wouldn't expect you to agree with anything I say at this point, because you are afraid of what I say. (Isn't it interesting how fear forms different faces?) In any case, my reply was to his questions, not towards your opinion of me. You need help of an entirely different sort, since you are in denial. You criticize what you cannot understand, whereas he seeks to understand what he cannot understand. HUGE difference. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. |
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The laundry thing as an example again (Something easy for us all to relate to) I'm sure how she does it is likely just some holdover behavior from having babies. You have babies in the house and the washer is always running. The poop and pee a thousand times a day (or so it seems) so you do these micro-loads of clothes every day and put them away. So I mean I can see where she was coming from. I get it. She isn't some insane kook but the wife I love. However our youngest is now six and it makes no sense to still do laundry that way. When the kid in diapers is now the kid that can carry the basket up the stairs and put it away, something should change. As you can see here I can empathize, understand and explain. I just can't make her change. Now of course the problem is that I've made the change since she is working, and I don't want to go backwards. Sure she has lost control here but how healthy is it to have doing the laundry be about control? Everyone here rules in their helpful responses and please keep them coming. This response is already too long, but I like thinking that is different than my own and there have been several helpful insights. Even if I may seem resistant to them in typing they might plant a seed of understanding that pops up as an "oh yeah", later. Last edited by Windswept : 2008-01-28 at 16:40. Reason: Line deleted at request of its writer. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA No, SteveC dear, it's because you're a pompous, delusional, asshat of an idiot that we disagree with you. Fear has nothing to do with it. Disgust, maybe. Sorry Trumpetman, back to your (otherwise) very well presented thread. I read with interest. |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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While I would say it's probably true, based on the specific details he provided, that his wife is somewhat imbalanced in terms of handling (in what seem to me to be) control issues, even that doesn't mean she is an imbalanced person generally. Unless your definition of balance requires near-perfect stability in the handling of every new circumstance and challenge. We all have strong and weak suits, and in a good marriage, hopefully the spouses balance each other off in that regard. Seems to me they're pretty dern close to doing just that in this case.... Quote:
ANYWAY, back on topic: Trumpetman, I'd be interested to know (as others do) more of her background as far as teaching, why she does it, etc. Almost sounds like it's a "she took this particular position because she couldn't find one better suited to her teaching background". Is that correct? ...into the light of a dark black night. Last edited by Moogs : 2008-01-25 at 14:33. Reason: Clarified last bit about understanding situation |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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The detention thing jumped out at me earlier, too. Have things really gotten *that* much worse over the past fifteen years? When I was in middle school, maybe one or two kids from a week's worth of classes I was in would get detention. Perhaps I was just lucky to attend a school with very well behaved kids?
The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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I agree with that assessment, but I didn't realize she was teaching several periods / classes each day, so at least in that context the number 20 makes a little more sense. I suspect though 20 should actually be more like 10. Bah, kids these days. They need a little detention, by God! Why when I was in school, we had walk uphill in the snow to detention. In May. With bare feet. But seriously... there have to be some resources for her, for at least handling the school side a bit more gracefully. I'm sure many teachers deal with stuff like this when coming back from a long sabbatical, maternity leave, or whatever. Maybe some of the people she works with can help lend some useful advice? ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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feeling my oats
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not to be a prick, but damn we spend money constantly to make people feel better...it is what you do for the ones you love...not the only thing (back and feet rubs are free, so is doing up the dishes or taking one of her chores as yours for a day (walking the dogs or something like that), but it is something you do you take someone to dinner, you take someone to a movie, you schedule a spa appointment for them...etc etc if trump is making good money, his kids are getting older, his wife is now working, hell, spending 50 to 100 bucks a week so somebody comes in to clean and do laundry so it frees up a family day, that's all gravy...and if he gets to turn it around and say, "dang honey, i see now what a great job you were doing all these years...i'm glad your back to work and doing well their and it's also great to see you losing some weight cuz i know that is going to help you so much in the years ahead...but boy, with my working too, it really has helped me to get some help at home, even just this one day a week...love you honey" not much out of the family pocket, helps grow the economy by adding to the work force, maybe strokes the misses ego (which can not be understated as a good thing...we all need some ego stroking from time to time...hell, daily would be great), and frees up family time (even just 3 hours freed up can be huge for a family that has older kids....older kids tend to not be around as much as the younger ones...friends, school, the opposite sex all steal family time...gotta grab as many hours as you can before they flee off to college) g crazy is not a rare human condition everything is food if you chew hard enough |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Seems he has the laundry situation under control, its her that has an issue with his not freaking about that one dirty pait of socks in the hamper. Last edited by faust : 2008-01-25 at 16:18. |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston
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I should add that I have had laundry issues with my wife. In fact, I think laundry is the bane of the world.
If the female does it, it is the largest and most difficult job in the world. Time must stop so that this crushingly important activity is completed first. Only then can the world spin, and it gives woman the ever perpetual "I am overworked" claim. If the male does it, it is never good enough. Thus, the issue is lose-lose for men. The best you can do is make it neutral. I suspect that if you can make peace with the laundry, it will go toward a long way with making peace regarding other issues. While this statement is ridiculous, I think it is accurate, too. We have had more fights over the laundry than anything else. Your mileage may differ. One thing I haven't gotten from your narrative is "why" did your wife need to go back to work? What was the gain? Is she working mother's hours while they are in school? (Maybe you stated this and I missed it.) |
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. |
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However the reality is that she wasn't keep up the home or herself. She was mostly playing online sudoku, reading books and letting people phone her and fill her up with the daily drama of their lives. My phrase for that is summer camp/summer vacation. It is not something I am willing to endorse or fund by forgoing actions she should be undertaking, paying for someone else to do them, or undertaking them myself. Our family probably ate out four times a week while she was home because lunch/dinner wasn't ready even though she was home all day. I let all this slide when the kids were smaller but now when it is just her home all day, not acceptable. So basically the choice became shape up the home or go get the income so we can pay for someone to prepare the meals, do the cleaning, etc. that is not happening. Before she went back she decided to get a real estate license and possibly get the broker license so she could either sell homes or manage property. However she got the real estate license and hasn't listed it with a broker. She took one class toward the broker license and after that... none. Quote:
I love my wife but the list of "cannots" with her on what couldn't get done was just too long to be plausible. So we went with the can that I know she must be able to do because she did it in the past which is teach. Maybe she can't sell a house or keep a house but she can use her degree and get a job. Quote:
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Listen the earlier part is thinking out loud, likely a bit of venting, and just laying it out there. People on here have mentioned that you often reference scripture. So certainly you are familiar with Josh McDowell and his book more than a carpenter. He give the reasoning of lord, liar or lunatic in his apologetics. The point is when you assert something you have to either be telling the truth, believe you are telling the truth and are deluded, or you are just lying. I was being told that I was either deluded or lying. So I do the actions and it turns out I am neither. It doesn't make me a super-hero but it does let me know that I am not a liar or deluded in suggesting or taking certain actions. The family doesn't need to eat out four times a week to survive. I can budget and save money even within the one salary. The laundry can get done and leave the weekend free. As you noted it doesn't require one be a super-hero. I am not undertaking a herculean task. It is not even anything special. So expecting it of myself or someone else is not a deluded or dishonest position to take. Quote:
This might be hard to imagine so imagine a sort of lazy/crazy John Henry driving his steel stakes with a hammer. Imagine him sort of lazily banging away with a steel hammer at a stake and getting no where compared to any modern machine or even anyone who took a productivity clue. When you show up with a steam machine to drive the stakes, he frantically bangs away with the hammer all night and is almost dead in the morning but somehow made a point about how their method of hammer and fist must still be just as good and thus must still be the adopted method. Worse still imagine him in the morning claiming that it was your lazy desire to use the steam machine that forced him to work himself to near death overnight. It sounds a bit insane and it is, but I love her just the same. This is what I mean when I use the martyr phrase I've tossed out there. You claim she isn't keeping a budget. She will stay up all night punch the numbers in and show it isn't possible to have spent the money different. However that isn't budgeting, it is just rigging the numbers. How can you question her though because she martyred herself all night to get those numbers. I go to bed. Quote:
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BTW, I'm not at work today. This would take way too long to type. My kids both earned student of the month and I took the day off to go to their little awards ceremony. Normally the wife goes but I have mondo sick days saved and she doesn't. It took an hour and the rest of the time I have been banging away on her while listening to the new (for me) Ozolmatli album which kicks huge butt. Quote:
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Trumpet: I hear you WRT to her way or the highway. When they dig their feet in on little stuff it can be really difficult to get around. I have family members who follow this thinking in everything they do. [My wife luckily, only has a couple types of tasks where she's like this, which I am now smart enough to never volunteer for. ]
[They have a specific way of handling every task, and even when they need or want help, they won't let you help them unless you do it *EXACTLY* the way they would do it. They will literally ask for help, and then turn it down if they find out you will do one thing differently. Anything. Wash blues and blacks together instead of apart. Load the dishwasher with glasses on one side vs. the other... ...the list is literally as endless as there are things in the world that a wife might do. It's just bizarre. It's as if all their sweetness and intuition and pragmatism goes straight out the window and they are now incapable of understanding the concept of "for many tasks, there are multiple ways of accomplishing that task with a proper result." Chics... can't live with 'em, pass the beer nuts. The good news is, there is a simple solution to this behavior ,at least when you're not within eye-shot. But you must be an able-minded dude who is more careful than your average Simpson, Bundy or Romano. When you offer to help and your wife says "do this, this, this or it won't come out right", you say: "I understand / right / got it", and then when she's gone, do it your way. Then when you're done, the result will be exactly the same and she won't notice or care to ask how you did it. ] Anyway, some women will load up their schedule with a bunch of "stuff" that "needs doing" (secret code for: I have arbitrarily decided it "needs doing now" even though there is no clear reason why it is needed at all, much less needed right away). Then after a while they become so stressed out they can't think straight and can't discern priority from minutia. Everything is a crisis to the woman following this type of pattern. In fact often times, the crisis is what they subconsciously want. They want to feel busy, depended upon and seen as "wow, how did you manage to keep all that together this week?" Why they want to feel that way can be 100 different reasons ranging from genuine psychological problems, all the way to plain old insecurity or boredom. For industrious, strong-minded women, it's often a case of what to do when the kids are at school vs. what they would've imagined themselves doing had they never had kids. It's sort of a compensation for "I could've accomplished so much". Female version of a mid-life crisis. You never hear it described that way but that's kind of what I think it is. Mid-life crises are almost universally attributed to men. Men having an affair, men buying a porsche, men quitting their job... whatever. But it happens with women too; just in more subtle ways. In your wife's case it could be she finally felt compelled to get back out there but is having trouble letting go of the old system. ...into the light of a dark black night. Last edited by Moogs : 2008-01-25 at 17:49. Reason: Added / modified bracketed bits |
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2006
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Couple quick initial thoughts:
1. The OP was so long, I might have shot myself if I clicked "Submit" and discovered my internet connection had gone down. (Happened to me a couple times last week, but thankfully with short reply posts.) Just as a friendly tip to the masses, long message board posts like that might be best drafted offline. 2. The Jack Nicholson character in "As Good as It Gets" was 100% right when he said that a woman is simply a man minus accountability and reason. As for my two cents' worth on the situation, taken together, the depression scenario seems very likely. Between the large weight gain, the general lethargy re: daily tasks, needing almost a year to get things together for rejoining the work force, etc., etc., this sounds like a woman who is either depressed or very seriously bored/uninspired. Frankly, I think 'Trumpetman's post was more to blow off steam than ask advice. If more things are getting done at home, the wife is losing weight, and the money situation is almost $1,000 per month better, returning to the status quo ante would be foolish for about six different reasons, and I'm sure he knows that. I would gently/politely bring up the depression issue, which she apparently shouldn't be offended by in light of the prior meds, and then take things from there. If she's diagnosed as being depressed, then new meds could do wonders. Otherwise, if she's not diagnosed as being depressed, then the foot-in-ass approach might be in order. In either event, unless 'Trumpetman' was a selfish, misogynistic pig and just saw the light a few months ago, it sounds like he's not the source of the issues/problems here. But people only change when they want to, and on their time, so this might be a long and somewhat frustrating process/experience. |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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My parents' situation is similar to Trumpetman's, in that once my mother had given birth to my brother she also announced she wasn't going back to being a computer consultant. She stayed home with him until he was preschool-aged, and then became a preschool teacher herself. At the same time, she stopped doing household chores entirely, save laundry. This shocked my father and she didn't consult with him prior to making her decision. Our family's finances had gotten tighter and tighter since that time, and most recently my dad's sixteen-year tenure with his prior firm came to an abrupt end. Point being, we were living paycheck to paycheck and her paltry wage couldn't sustain us; and she wouldn't consider leaving teaching because to her it's a dream job.
In addition, one day we came home and she had cut her hair herself to just a few inches from the many (15+?) she had had. She also began taking naps from the time she came home from school (2:30pm-ish) until 9:00pm or so when she'd get up to have dinner (always leftovers from last night's takeout), watch a little television and then go right back to bed. It was all very strange to us and strained my parents' relationship very much. My dad has slept on the floor of our family room for a few years now. Talk of divorce has been bandied about, but they've been together for twenty-eight years, and when things are good they seem very good. Eh, I don't know how helpful this post was in providing you with any methodologies for solving your problem, but I just wanted you to know that you're not alone, if you didn't already. What I would urge you to do is talk through any issues you're having and seek solutions that you can both agree on. Be flexible and be agreeable. And seek professional counseling (which I wish my parents would do/would have done), if you find yourselves at an impasse. Seemingly inconsequential differences, in my experience at least, are invariably the ones that cause the most harm. In my parents' situation, their differences cost them more than time or money, it cost them their happiness. Best wishes, my friend! P.S. Your wife being a strict disciplinarian at school, in my opinion, is probably exactly what her students need. |
Dick in the Abstentia, The
Join Date: May 2004
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Personal post's usually need to be long. I assure you this is something plenty of us already know. Quote:
Anyway, sorry to hear this, Trumpty. I just kept thinking what's her underlying problem here. Because that's what it sounds like to me but I couldn't spot what her back story might be. I reckon just do whatever the g says. Hell man, he takes the missus to these expensive, luxurious spas for weekends away and they've been married forever. Charm goes a long way with women. And I say that as a woman who was unexpectedly kissed on the cheek by some South American stranger she met in town this very morning. Do you have any inkling as to what might really be behind her unhappiness? Working or not, she seems to be struggling to find the joy in living. |
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Not a tame lion...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
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I often find myself wondering why my wife doesn't resemble Dagny Taggart.
I have just accepted the fact that my wife just wants to sit around all day doing nothing in particular. One time I bugged my wife enough that she went out and got a job (she's a pre-school teacher funnily enough). When I say bugged, I mean reasoned with her, dug into it to discover that yes she actually wanted to work and contribute to our small family (no children as of yet). In hindsight, I was just bugging her and she never really did want to go back to work. I must of caught her on a night when she was receptive to reason and logically concluded that yes, she would be happy if she returned to work. She only lasted a couple of months before quitting and returning to her previous position as home body. It bothers me to know we are missing out on extra income and bored people seem to actually spend more. Why don't you have another kid Nick, that would let her go back home and allow you to continue building your dynasty. |
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