[Quagmire]

I am very sorry for the people who did not find the trc. I found it but, even I didn't know this was happening in there. I think everyone here at .org did not support what Brad did ovr at .com. What did Brad do to get banned? I don'y even know. I am not pissed. I do fell a little left out but, that is life. Get over it Groverat, get over it fellows. That is a part of life knowing that you are left out.

[Chinney]

Fellowship sometimes says some strong words…and sometimes some soft ones. That’s fine with me. I certainly have not always agreed with him – but I like the guy and he is most welcome here on .org. Indeed, EVERYONE on .com is welcome here. I have said this before, and I will say it again, but NO PART of the impetus for .org should be to leave anyone behind from the community. Some people will inevitably dislike the posts of some others - but this is part of a web forum – and part of what makes it interesting.

[Fellowship]

Originally Posted by Undertaker get over it fellows.

You may have missed this post

I am "over it"

For the record... I will say that people should not be given grief because they have discussed this. To tell people that this is old news and to "get over it" at all stages of this and throughout many different threads here which deal with this is being rude to people who may not have had their say and been clear on their view of things.

Also I find it funny that people who are a little torn over the divide in the community are told to "get over it" while on the other hand some of you could not "get over" a few silly banner ads.

So the whole "get over it" thing is a little hypocritical and comical to say the least

Again to sum up.... I am "over it"

Fellowship

[Chinney]

Re some of points made about the Brad and LoCash’s TRC discussions about setting up an alternative AppleInsider, about Brad’s alleged hacking after being banned, and on the setting up of the .org site under the name of AppleInsider.

I do have problems with aspects of this, but I must say that I view all of it from fundamentally different lens than some – notably groverat. The only way that Brad and LoCash’s actions could be viewed as ‘completely unacceptable’ is if you accept the initial proposition that Kasper owned AppleInsider to begin with. I don’t accept that proposition. He might have a legal claim to the name “Appleinsider.com” but he has no legal or moral claim of ownership in the community.

I think that it was entirely legitimate for those who were effectively running the place to have serious discussions of alternatives that might be invoked if they could not maintain agreement with the ‘owner’ about how site should be administered. And while I have some problem with Brad’s actions after being banned – if what I understand is correct (and I am not sure I have the full story) – I will cut him some slack on this because I think that Kasper had no right to unilaterally ban him in the first place: whatever the legal situation, Brad had as much a moral right to stay on .com as Kasper does. Finally, while I would prefer a name change at .org, I do think that if those at .org wanted to, they would have every moral right (and perhaps legal as well) to retain the “AppleInsider” name. Once again, I don’t think that Kasper has any ownership rights in the community.

[thegelding]

god children....as my sister in law says to her 4 year when she is having a "conniption" ... "calm your body"

anyways: happy memorial day to all... hope everybody's families are safe...g'rat, is your brother still in the military? hope he is well

now, back OT (the freakin' topic i keep telling myself i am through with)

ok, things i think will and should happen...name change, front page change

but g'rat (addressing to you as you seem most angry by all this...and yes i know you won't agree with the use of the word angry), there are already lots of things in the works to do this...plans of monthly articles by murbot, possible plans to set up talks on mock ups, possible plans to use the international base of posters to have vacation/travelog-"this is were i live, this is why you should visit it" monthly posts, and lots of things i don't even know about (possibly even a return of rumors)...so the front page will change and the site will also grow and change... personally i would like the front page to change sooner than later

about downloading .com database...i'm not for that for two reasons (and please note that it hasn't been done yet and may never be)...one, people can still search for a thread at .com anytime they want (maybe some threads are deleted, but the world ain't perfect and people will have to deal with that) and secondly, it isn't necessary ... this place will start it's own threads, it's own database...it is gonna grow plenty fast...

<g'rat quote>
I think Brad has some emotional issues where he needs constant reassurance and attention that make him a bad admin candidate, but that's about it. It played itself out over and over again in the mod forum, and if you guys can bash Kasper on the front page of .org then I have no qualms about voicing my opinion of Brad as an administrator.
__________________________________________________ _____________

that i would call bad form...if you really believe that brad has emotional issues you should never bring that up in an open forum...use PM, email etc...people with emotional problems need help and care, not open attacks in a public forum...and if you don't really believe that then it is a nasty attack on somebody's character...either way, bad form...but g'rat always has been the bobby knight of ai...smart as hell, constantly thinking, and a bit of a bully...no biggie, coach knight has made a nice career for himself that way

<g'rat quote>
I don't think this place will "die" as in everyone will stop posting, but it will be tiny compared to .com. This is not a replacement, it will barely be a supplement.
__________________________________________________ ______________
it won't at all be a supplement, it will be separate and different, give it time...as for size, hell, it has just started...i expect the membership to double, then triple and more...and what matters is really not how much, but the valve of the posts...sure .com has tons of members, but how many post? how many registered just for convention time and never return?? .com likely has a core group of a couple of hundred that post regularly...by summers end .org will likely have the same


<g'rat quote>
So that justifies hacking his account?
Or can we dismiss Brad's behavior because of some infection or surgery but its ok to place full blame on Kasper? What if he has been feeling under the weather, too?
__________________________________________________ _____________

i am fairly sure that brad never blamed posting after he was banned on surgery or medication...we did that because we were so confused by the events of that day...now, looking back, it was likely two things...one, brad wanted to post and knew kasper wouldn't delete his own account, two, brad likely wanted to throw out a "FU, look what i can do" to kasper...both reasons are bad and wrong AND in the past...time to move on

and lastly, why are people mad and disappointed that brad and locash and alcimedes started their own forum?? and how does this hurt .com?? it can easily make both sites better...it is just like when people that work hard for a company decide to break off and form their own company...they now have to work hard to get their company up and running, but they can take pride in the work they do...if their leaving has left "holes" in the previous company, then it is up to management to file those holes...remember that in business nobody is suppose to be irreplaceable


ok, so now i think (if anybody cares what i think) it is time to close the revolution forums, at least to posting...let them be read for a couple of weeks so it is not like .org is censoring...but lock them and then archive them after a "grace" period

and people here, forgive g'rat and fellows and others from .com that are "venting" abit...remember that they cannot vent about this at .com so this is the only place that they can do that....

g

[alcimedes]

well, i think when the front end becomes active, and we grab a new url this forum can close. until then, it seems that a lot of people still want to talk about it.

an interesting read though.

however, what's done is done, and perceptions won't change reality. i'd rather work on reality than perceptions.

[thegelding]

god, just reading my posts....ugggggghhhh

when did i become (or try to become) the "elder" statesmen for .org


ick, i need to become much more irrelevant and semi-comical....it is more suitable to my true nature

next up fart jokes and parasite photos

g

[Trumpetman]

Well I haven't been the most inside on this whole issue, but I certainly posted in that thread and knew about the supposedly "secret" forum.

The "hidden" forum was only hidden to those who are so habitual as to never access .com in certain ways. All posts in it showed up in the new posts search which is how tons of people found it. It started off as a joke, not as attempt to be elite, hurt others, or anything else.

For those decrying the possible pondering of the database and the intent here, last time I checked it was actions we judged people on and not thoughts. The "outloud" thinking was occuring at .com because they people who created this place care about the community. To claim that it would have worked out if someone posted it in the general forums is just nonsense. It would be the equal of screaming fire in a movie theater. If anything discussing it in a far off place where most of the regulars end up discovering it and the general lurkers/newbies don't have to encounter it is the height of courtesy in my opinion.

Also the database was discussed in part because it appears that Kasper attempted to claim copyright ownership not just of the name and format for Appleinsider, but over all our posts as well. This same thinking is revealing itself in the continued banning of people over pm'ing, sigs, etc. If the boards were as strong as he claimed they were, if it were really only about the front page, then why all these police state type measures?

I believe if this site can get something on it's front page besides the .com fight/poetry and continue to innovate it will come into it's own.

Nick

[groverat]

He might have a legal claim to the name “Appleinsider.com” but he has no legal or moral claim of ownership in the community.

His claim is far more legitimate than Brad and LoCash, whose claim is entirely without merit; moral or legal.

I think that it was entirely legitimate for those who were effectively running the place to have serious discussions of alternatives that might be invoked if they could not maintain agreement with the ‘owner’ about how site should be administered.

Brad and LoCash were "effectively running the place"? That is a giant lie.
To say they wanted to run the place is closer to the truth, and this is as close as they will get.


g:

I think Brad has been handled with kit gloves long enough, to be honest. I think it speaks volumes that you guys are forced to make things up to clean up his messes while he says nothing (well, except in poetic verse).

As far as moving on, why not get Brad to do the same and take that garbage off the front page? Change the name of the site, also.

I think Brad should publicly apologize to Kasper for hacking .com. I think the name should be changed immediately.

and lastly, why are people mad and disappointed that brad and locash and alcimedes started their own forum??

Who is mad that Brad, LoCash and alci started their own forum?
I post at other forums. People start forums all the time, you are purposely missing the point.

Close the Revolution forum to posting? Prior restraint is censorship, too, g.
How would this be any different than Kasper locking down .org discussion?

[thegelding]

revolution forum was always planned to be short lived...unlike threads in suggestions and such...the sad part of the threads that "disappeared" at .com is that the mods from .com that posted to them made such wonderful posts...caring, open-minded....the fact that the owner made their eloquent posts disappear was an eye-opener to me...and i still hope and know that both sites will prosper


g

[Fellowship]

Relax everybody

How about some Peach Cobbler and Vanilla Ice Cream anyone??

Fellows

[thegelding]

cutting down on carbs...

but i'll have a vodka and soda with lime


g

[Power Apple]

hmmm.... it's pretty interesting to watch what's going on here and read about what happened and people's reactions. Especially being an admin myself!...



Anyhow, good luck vith the new forum!

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Power Apple hmmm.... it's pretty interesting to watch what's going on here and read about what happened and people's reactions. Especially being an admin myself!... Anyhow, good luck vith the new forum!

Nice site.

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by Carol Nice site.

Nice music too.

[Power Apple]

hey, thanks

[LoCash]

A couple of things...

1) If I closed this forum to posting, the groverat might not ever have anywhere to post here

2) I know you're getting off on being "frank" over here, groverat. It is beginning to border on being an asshat though. So go back to .com and tell everyone how much you enjoy being frank and a prick over here. If you do we'll probably make that stop. You're welcome to discuss this over here, but you've crossed a couple of lines (thegelding pointed a couple out), and when you go back to appleinsider.com and brag about being an asscarnival over here, well, not cool.

3) We don't have a desire to use the database backups from ai.com. Nobody here wants them.

4) I'm not changing the name of this site until I have a better alternative. If that is so damaging to Kasper, he can file a lawsuit. What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by LoCash What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.

Dirt goes both ways...

[Leonis]

Originally Posted by Carol Nice site.

I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!!

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by Leonis I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!!

Grammar errors were for free though...

[Leonis]

Originally Posted by Defiant Grammar errors were for free though...

Who cares?!

[groverat]

2) I know you're getting off on being "frank" over here, groverat. It is beginning to border on being an asshat though. So go back to .com and tell everyone how much you enjoy being frank and a prick over here. If you do we'll probably make that stop. You're welcome to discuss this over here, but you've crossed a couple of lines (thegelding pointed a couple out), and when you go back to appleinsider.com and brag about being an asscarnival over here, well, not cool.

My God, the irony is thick.
I feel cut to the quick, I posted something that one of this site's moderators saw and it came back to you! TO THE QUICK, SIR!

groverat: I am having so much fun at .org I can't even tell you guys. I love it when someone gives me a good excuse to be frank.

You got me!

What lines have I crossed, LC? Pray tell.
I must confess that I did not read the posting guidelines when I registered (who does?).
Did I cuss? Or was it because I was mean to Brad?

3) We don't have a desire to use the database backups from ai.com. Nobody here wants them.

I didn't say you plan on using them now.
You discussed it then, which is why I say that if that was the case then Kasper was justified in nuking your accounts at that time.

4) I'm not changing the name of this site until I have a better alternative. If that is so damaging to Kasper, he can file a lawsuit. What's damaging is his continued use of material copyrighted by brad. He's profiting off of that too, every time a banner ad loads. He's been asked nicely to remove it, and if he doesn't we'll seek damages.

Yet Kaspers C&D is pathetic? ha

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Leonis I need to steal the thunder from Mr.Power Apple a bit.....becasue I am THE ONE who did his site!!!!!!!!!

*VERY* impressive job, Leonis.

[Luca]

Groverat, if you hate .org so much why don't you just go back to .com? I don't see the point of coming over here and harassing us, other than to giggle a bit and laugh with all the other moderators at .com. Or rather, SOME of the other moderators at .com. Some of the mods over there probably DON'T take pleasure in harassing us, unlike you. So just shut the hell up.

Or keep ranting like an idiot if you want. We won't censor you, although if the thread gets out of hand it might get locked.

[groverat]

It is not harassment, Luca. I posted one sentence in the moderator forum at .com (which I gladly reposted here since murbot already took it upon himself to spread it around). I am sure LC has been silent on the matter in all other forums besides this one.

Is my pointing out unpleasant facts supposed to pain me? I think it is funny how childish the whole thing was. I think it is hilarious that Brad takes it all so seriously that he felt he had to hack .com and blames it on pain medication and won't take responsibility for what he did; also hilarious that some consider this a "revolution" that AI posters really wanted when the vast majority of them knew nothing about it and most of them at .org will readily say they had no beef with .com.

If my pointing out obvious truth is so offensive, you can just as easily stop reading and responding as I can stop posting. It is not my job to censor the world for your delicate constitution, dear heart. If I am breaking a rule I have already asked to be made aware. This forum seems to be about this very subject, not about puppies or cars or airplanes.

But I go too far? Posting pathetic poetry (alliteration!) bashing Kasper is OK but fearless leader has his playground so one must be nice to him here, and others will clean up his melodramatic and be surly with the... revolutionary(?).

[murbot]

Jesus christ, I made a general comment in a chat with Jack about the Frank comment because I thought it was funny. You know, ha ha. I wasn't "spreading it around here". It involved groverat, Frank, Jamie, and Arthur & Martha. It had real erotic potential.

But anyway, don't let me interrupt you guys. Each of you is so close to changing the other's minds on this matter. A few more pages ought to do it!

[Mac+]

Originally Posted by Luca ...[snip]... So just shut the hell up.

geez Luca relax... they're only words.


Personally I enjoy Groverat's posts - sometimes I think he means a few comments "tongue in cheek" and I take them for what they're worth.

Anyway, I'm all for open discussion. If people express a different opnion to mine (or yours) it doesn't really add much to the conversation if I (or you) tell them to "shut the hell up". Agree to disagree. alcimedes has a good grasp on what is *actually* being discussed and has chosen to state what he prefers to discuss in quite a rational manner.

Originally Posted by alcimedes however, what's done is done, and perceptions won't change reality. i'd rather work on reality than perceptions.

No name calling, no vitriol - if I was a "Member Rating" type of person, I'd probably click him an approval. Heck, you're high up in the food chain here alcimedes, treat yourself to a positive click from me for your succinct and mature post above

[thegelding]

lets continue this at .com then...would you care to start the thread g'rat or do you want me to? either is fine, just let me know...i haven't been banned there yet, so i can still start threads

g


what title should we use...perhaps "does Brad have emotional problems?"...maybe that thread wouldn't be deleted right away



pss...i'm pretty sure we all have emotional problems and want attention...just part of life...if not, why are we posting (often emotionally or aggressively) at a internet forum?

[pscates2.0]

I'm about to lob a hand grenade. 10, 9, 8...

[Mac+]

Originally Posted by Barto Fellowship's consistent fair moderation and insightful comments for a long time earned him influence through the respect afforded him by other members. Since Fellowship isn't a mod here, if the respect goes the influence goes with it. Barto

Thanks for offering to clarify that for me Barto. I don't undersatand, though, what exactly his influence extended to - nor how respect afforded by other members for his consistent fair moderation and insightful posts gave him any influence. Influence over what/who exactly? (In other words, how did Fellowship's influence - or anybody else's for that matter - affect my posting experience on AI.com?)

Not asking for a debate or to derail this thread too much further - but trying to understand the notion of influence and *power* on a message board such as this. If there are indeed "inmates running the asylum", I'd like to know who has the power and what their powers are exactly.

Anyone who would like to go off on this tangent or further elaborate on influence, then feel free to PM me. cheers!