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is copying 1,200 library CDs stealing music?


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is copying 1,200 library CDs stealing music?
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ohara
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ellen Feiss, née Robert
 
2005-01-20, 18:02

OK, so I get nearly all my music (classical and opera ) from the local music library. I've copied 1,200 CDs and ripped them into AACs. (Around 100 gigs). I've been doing this for 2 years.

(I only own 3 CDs)

Question is, is this legal?

Reason I'm asking is because at my college today I borrowed a CD and the librarian said that If i were a music major and if I were to copy this CD and Sheet Music, I'd be expelled from school.

So I'm now guessing that I stole "$10,000" of music.

Now I feel bad...............
Struggling artists like Midori, Anne Sophie Mütter, Maria Callas have been shortchanged by me. (i know that i wrote that sentence in the passive, but I didn't feel like going back and inserting a subject).

Before I thought that the public owned these recordings, and I, as a taxpayer could make copies.

does anyone know if this is legal?

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ast3r3x
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2005-01-20, 18:06

Probably...but does it matter? No.
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Igorot Warrior
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At Mutt Lynch's drinking Boddington's
 
2005-01-20, 18:12

I'm not sure what the legal ramifications are....and it's not like you are making copies and then selling them.

At any rate...it looks like you genuinely appreciate their work so it won't go to waste.

"War just in the ring...peace on Earth" - Vanderlei Silva
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SonOfSylvanus
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: London Town
 
2005-01-20, 18:34

Illegal.
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Zodiac
Shiny, Musky, Fleshy Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Beer Store
 
2005-01-20, 18:39

Snap the discs in half and throw them out. It's illegal.
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Wickers
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-20, 18:56

In Canada it's legal... err... or so it would seem, considering the judge who ruled it was legal to copy music made a reference to making copies of pages at the library.

no sig, how's that for being a rebel!
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-01-20, 19:05

This guy had been stealing books from the Local Library for something like 40 years, He was something like 65 or so when they finally caught him. He had this whole scheme down to a T, where he'd smuggle books out of the library. I forget exactly how he did it, but he did it for so long and amassed maybe 5-10,000 books. His wife was completely unaware that he'd been stealing them. His whole house was covered ceiling to floor with books. I think that because he was so old they didn't lock him up or anything(he might have even been more like 70-80 now that I think about it) but damn.
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Argento
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Head in a trash can.
 
2005-01-20, 19:31

You pay taxes, you don't ruin the CD's so others can still listen to them, as far as I'm concerened it's legal to me. I hate the RIAA so much that if I had a choice I would make sure none of my tax money went to the purchasing of CD's, but since it does I think that's completely legal as long as the CD's can still be used by others (which clearly they can).

And All That Could Have Been
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ohara
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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2005-01-20, 19:56

well i feel bad now, e'en though this is of dubious legality
(i gave the CDs all back, Zodiac – i checked them out and returned them)

i guess i'll only pay for the artists i really like

and I won't pay for artists that are dead

thanks!
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BarracksSi
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2005-01-20, 20:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by \/\/ickes
In Canada it's legal... err... or so it would seem, considering the judge who ruled it was legal to copy music made a reference to making copies of pages at the library.
Wow, that's an interesting precedent...

I'm not sure that it really could be considered the same, because making copies of pages would really be more like copying a chorus of a song on a CD.

There's some other stuff to consider, too. I'll post later if I think of how to say it.
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Headphone Jack
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2005-01-20, 21:55

Well, that is not really the reason the law is how it is in Canada.

The fact is that Canadians already pay a fee/tax on recordable media, such as cd-r, blank cassettes, even iPods (but I think they just got rid of the fee for iPods).

Anyway, that money supposedly goes back to the artists, because the government assumes that people will be copying music, so they charge everyone. (That's another discussion altogether)

That means that copying a cd from your friend or library to downloading off Kazaa or whatever is completely legal in Canada (as long as it's for personal use). However uploading songs for others to download is still illegal.

What I find upseting is that even though I can purchase a song from the iTunes store and my friends can legally copy it (for their personal use), I technically cannot share it because of Apple's restrictions.

More importantly for the student worried about what the librarian said - go ask someone who can actually kick you out of school, such as admissions, or even better, the head of your faculty.


H
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Wickers
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-20, 22:09

Yah, they took off the iPod tax... iPods dropped from $20-30 depending on the size.

It was great... one guy who bought 5 iPod 40g just a day before the tax drop was so pissed. He came back into the storefront of my work and would not stop bitching to one of the sales managers. "I know retail, I know you guys have price protection! I want the difference back!" In response, after giving constructive conversation a shot, the sales manager just said "you want your money back? 1-800-MY-APPLE."

hehe...

no sig, how's that for being a rebel!
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ohara
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2005-01-20, 22:27

brand name CD-Rs in FL run 50/$5

doesn't seem like that tax – if here – really makes up for lost earnings
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InactionMan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-20, 23:55

Keep the music and enjoy it. Just start supporting artist you really like. I'd never thought of borrowing music from the blueberry and ripping it. Might give it a shot.

And it probably is illegal in the States. Too late now.
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billybobsky
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2005-01-20, 23:56

I do not believe it is illegal since you aren't redistributing the cds, and you could always check them out again for free...
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ohara
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2005-01-21, 00:17

what the hell is a blueberry? is that slang for library ?

I don't get it!
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torifile
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2005-01-21, 00:20

Yeah, you're a thief, but don't be stupid too. Just keep them and buy what you want from now on.
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InactionMan
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2005-01-21, 00:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohara
what the hell is a blueberry? is that slang for library ?

I don't get it!
Yeah, I've known so many people that pronounce it Lie-berry that it just slowly morphed into blueberry for me.
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ohara
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2005-01-21, 00:39

that's so cute...... i thought that you could be talking about one of those portable instant messaging things that Oprah uses...

not saying I watch her show... often
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autodata
hustlin
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-21, 05:44

Whether or not you pay taxes has absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever. Second, it's an issue of copyright and fair use, not stealing or theft.

I am an academic librarian. The librarian you talked to sounded pretty clueless, since part of his or her job is to explain what the limits of fair use are and why they have their policies. Saying that you would be 'expelled' is just rude bullshit, plain and simple.

With fair use, particularly for scholarship, there are few hard and fast rules. You could likely argue that what you are doing is covered under fair use, but if it went to court you would almost certainly lose. I don't know what all the laws are for music recordings, but they are handled differently than other materials. The library's policy is, of course, going to be that you can't, but it's also not really entirely the library's business what you are doing.

I'm of the school of thought that believes a university library should go far beyond just providing materials used in classes and that the patron's use of material should not be restricted by library staff unless it creates a burden (by volume, for instance) or otherwise limits the library's ability to serve other patrons.

Last edited by autodata : 2005-01-21 at 05:50.
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autodata
hustlin
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-21, 12:38

So I brought up this issue in a meeting this morning. Everyone agreed that it isn't the library's business what you are doing with them so long as the volume doesn't interfere with operations. So long as the library isn't making money off of your actions, they likely would not be found liable in court. There are even specific provisions in law that exempt libraries from being liable for on premises infringment like using the photocopiers to copy whole books. As long as they inform you of the copyright restrictions, they should be fine.

In other words, the librarian you spoke to probably mind his or her own business.

Aside from the issues with the librarian, you absolutely should pay for recordings if you can and if you would have purchased it had you not been able to pirate the copy, otherwise it's wrong by any measure. I would say that you are definitely infringing, so legally it would be a problem, as well.

Last edited by autodata : 2005-01-21 at 12:45.
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macgeek2004
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2005-01-22, 03:22

I just went and got 20 operas from the library, and put them on my computer.

I think everybody does it, and it's not a problem.
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Fangorn
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Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-01-22, 10:54

The question wasn't "do you think it's wrong" but "is it legal."

In a word, no. In many cases of classical music, the "music" is public domain, but the performance is not. U.S. law says it is theft. Now, whether certain individuals on this board think it "should" be legal is another matter. But the actual legal standing is a matter of fact, not opinion.
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BarracksSi
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2005-01-22, 11:01

So, if it's illegal, then change the law. Go for it -- at least you'd be able to say that you tried.
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Powerdoc
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-22, 12:02

Copying 1,200 library CDs is stealing music.

You have the right to copy your own CD, but not the one of others and it's include library.
Now as long that you keep this secret you will never have any problems.
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ohara
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2005-01-22, 14:07

MacGeek, i love thee!

finally, i know that someone else does what i do
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autodata
hustlin
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-22, 14:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangorn
U.S. law says it is theft.
According to US law it would be copyright infringement, not theft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangorn
But the actual legal standing is a matter of fact, not opinion.
Fair use is almost entirely based on court opinion and precedent.

When it's a discussion of checking out material from a library for personal use and copying it for personal use, it solidly falls under the fair use/infringement decision and, therefore, the legal standing is solidly a matter of opinion, not fact. The law, 17 USC 107, is specifically worded to leave it up to the opinion of the court.

Last edited by autodata : 2005-01-22 at 14:48.
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macgeek2004
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2005-01-22, 18:32

I thought i was the only one who puts hundreds of classical albums on my computer.
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Dave
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW, TX
 
2005-01-23, 03:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohara
Reason I'm asking is because at my college today I borrowed a CD and the librarian said that If i were a music major and if I were to copy this CD and Sheet Music, I'd be expelled from school.


That makes no sense. Why would the school want to deny music majors access to the stuff they need?

Just get a friend who isn't a music major to check out the stuff and make the copies for you.

Man, and I thought my school had weird policies....

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-01-23, 03:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
That makes no sense. Why would the school want to deny music majors access to the stuff they need?
Duuuh... because copying it is illegal?

Sheet music for university and even high school bands/orchestras is very expensive. If you think you can legally go copying that stuff, you're living in another world (or at least another country).

I think schools should start showing "Don't copy that floppy!" again.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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