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MC: Redesign of Communal Mob Trap


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View Poll Results: Should We Embark on Redesigning the Communal Mob Trap (hostile)
Sure thing, Bruce, sign me up. 2 66.67%
Leave well enough alone, alright!?!? 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

MC: Redesign of Communal Mob Trap
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billybobsky
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2011-04-11, 02:32

So I was glancing around the minecraft forums and stumbled upon several examples of recent mob traps that work at incredible speeds even with small foot prints. These vary significantly from the sort that I designed in that death, often by falling onto water supported by *fences*, which subverts the whole protective action of water, is distributed rather than centralized. It may be possible to convert the current mob trap to incorporate this idea, by changing the water flow in the channels and creating an under structure to decentralize killing, and serve as a collection basin.

Is there any desire/interest in redesign?

Poll included!
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RowdyScot
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2011-04-11, 02:45

Before I commit, what would we need to do precisely?
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billybobsky
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2011-04-11, 03:39

Thinking about the amount of work, I am not sure it is worth it to completely re-engineer the trap. It may, however, be really simple to add one or more of the small footprint traps to near the collection building and direct their drops into the same flow stream as the current collection. I can do this myself, and hell if it works really really well, we may consider completely revamping the former design... Of course, if slimes don't get fixed all of this is moot.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-11, 11:39

On third thought: this might not actually be that bad...

1) build channels below the current ones by 3 or four (need to figure out how much lower they need to be). Ideally these channels would be wider to prevent spiders from clogging the works, but this will make it difficult to build and design intersections of the channels. I need to consider this more...

2) Install miniature grinders designed to take care of both normal height mobs and spiders -- slight variation on the lava blade -- above the flow on every rise or every other rise.

3) Have Brad kindly turn off hostile mob spawning while work is underway in the trap.

4) Dry channels in trap. Punch holes to allow mobs to drop into the channels below. Install signs to control water flow. Place water. Knock out torches, get out, and have Brad turn the hostile mobs back on...

Note: The original plan was to have most mobs die by falling. This eliminates that concept allowing a more compact structure but one whose efficiency will likely overcome the difficulties of depending upon lava blades.

I just quickly built an example of the microgrinder above a simulated channel for your observation just outside of the hostile mob trap.

Last edited by billybobsky : 2011-04-11 at 12:06.
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drewprops
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2011-04-11, 11:48

I feel like the 10th grader who has just walked into a 12th grade calculus class.

The mechanics of how the traps work is beyond me, still - but this is interesting.

...

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709
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2011-04-11, 12:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
I just quickly built an example of the microgrinder above a simulated channel for your observation just outside of the hostile mob trap.
Awesome. Can't wait to check it out later.

You know I'm always up for a project that distracts me from completing the upper dome on the UFO.
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turtle
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2011-04-11, 12:59

I'm interested...though my Mom's coming in town today so I might not be one much with her visiting.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-13, 02:05

Ok. Lets talk about this sometime later this week in game...

I think this will massively increase the efficiency of the communal trap. If so, I can retire my old trap and convert the land to something more.... pleasant...
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billybobsky
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2011-04-16, 02:20

Ok: So I started laying the new channels for the trap booster and realized something awful: my minigrinder only works on MOST of the channels, but not all. Intersections at the main channel cannot be treated the same way.

Fear not, there are solutions:

We ignore spiders and just put tall mob grinders on the main channels. We prefilter out the spiders and place cacti at these filters for good measure (probably was going to happen anyway). The third solution may actually be the best: offset the booster main channels from the main channels above by 2, place standard minigrinders and at the intersections (where two side channels meet the main channel) have no grinder. At most this means mobs will have to travel two lengths of eight until they die.

These ideas aren't entirely exclusive, filtering off the spiders has merits, but also might have unintended downstream effects...

As it stands the starter channels are NOT offset, so don't go extending those just yet. Also Note: The channels in the current trap are not 'perfect' in that it may be necessary to remove some blocks to get everything to line up and not prevent the grinders from being inserted.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-17, 02:24

I have extended a couple (if not all) of the main channels. Meanwhile I have decided that the inner most side channels aren't needed on the booster as their advantage is limited, which should simplify things.

Brad: would you be amenable to turning off hostile mobs for the week you are gone? Or perhaps telling turtle how to do so/giving him the ability?
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billybobsky
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2011-04-18, 00:02

The bulk of the work on the channels is done: to be added are walls and the mini grinders/water.

There was a brief lull in the mob spawning and i took the opportunity to crack open the mob trap and throw some torches down. It was a short lived exercise, but a decent start.

There's much to be done, and I will appreciate any help i can get...
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turtle
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2011-04-18, 00:38

When I can get on later this week I'll be sure to spend some time helping out over there. I'll catch you online at some point and make it happen.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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billybobsky
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2011-04-18, 21:14

Correction on my last post:

The bulk of the work is still to come .

I thought the grinders would be easy to install, and they are, relatively, but the process is by no means easy, particularly since you are playing with fire, water and heights at the same time...

I also just realized something else we can do to increase the efficiency of the trap: there's a lot of wasted volume in the trap itself, if we place concentric single wide scaffolds separated side to side by two and, where relevant, above below by two, it will effectively increase the surface area of the trap and provide more spawn points for the mobs...

Last edited by billybobsky : 2011-04-18 at 22:04.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-18, 23:16

Turtle: may I ask a favor? Could you admin magic 9 or so stacks of lava into my inventory for the trap? This will greatly speed progress...
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turtle
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2011-04-18, 23:33

I will do that for you, but I think the lava I give acts a little different. It's not in a bucket. Maybe I can find where there's a lava bucket, otherwise it's straight up lava. You'll need to be sure you place it right the first time I think. Next time I can catch you not logged in I'll see about making it happen though. 9x64 coming up!

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-18, 23:48

Straight up lava is fine... Thanks in advance...
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turtle
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2011-04-18, 23:52

Turns out there is a lava bucket. They are waiting for you now.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-19, 00:10

Sweet, thanks again
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billybobsky
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2011-04-23, 05:44

Well that was painful... So 99.5% of the booster channels are done, all that remains is some cleaning up of the center and integrating it into the glass structure nicer than it currently is... Maybe the last grinders/channels should be glass/halfstone...

The next part is fun inside the trap itself and that undertaking is not a one person job.

Thanks goes to turtle for helping build walls and providing a cobblestone injection to the booster channels.
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709
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2011-04-23, 15:46

Sorry I haven't been around lately. You know I love working on stuff like this, but workload has been massive this week.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-23, 18:07

That's ok, 709... Other than last night's almost 8 hour stretch of construction, it was pretty light work, and when it came to why I stayed up finishing it, the work was repetitive and mindless, exactly what's needed after a long week...
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billybobsky
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2011-04-24, 22:40

Right so... I am off for all of tomorrow and didn't get a chance to illuminate my plans for the mob trap which means it will have to wait until tuesday...

But the upstart to all of it is that we are going to need signs. And I don't mean just the 1000 or so going in the channels. I mean thousands more to line the edges of the scaffolding i am adding to increase the surface area of the trap. The signs prevent spiders from holding onto the space between the channels thus clogging up the works. Between the booster channels and the several fold increase in surface area the trap will go from impressive to scary fast (i hope) until Notch breaks something (probably signs holding back water)...
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turtle
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2011-04-24, 23:56

Well, if signs do break holding water then we can at least put ladders in...spiders likely would move out of the way rather than hang over them blocking access. Sure some mobs might climb out, but little would change over how the trap works now meaning little overall impact on the current standard.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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billybobsky
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2011-04-25, 01:03

I suspect if the signs thing is fixed, the ladder thing will be as well (not that it matters, ladders are unfortunately not usable in this particular case since the mobs can climb them).

All of that said, if the ladders and signs are 'fixed' it is easy enough to convert the trap to a pure falling trap... but we can cross that bridge when/if happens...
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billybobsky
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2011-04-30, 01:54

Aha!

Spiders cannot climb over torches on walls!

This changes everything!!!!

We can redstone torch the scaffolding to the same effect as putting signs on it. Of course we need tons of redstone, so much so that I wonder if admin magic might not occur...

Er... problem: redstone torches DO reduce probability of spawning... perhaps signs are better after all?
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709
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2011-04-30, 08:34

Arg, that's true. Maybe signs are better after all.
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turtle
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2011-04-30, 08:57

I got you a good start going bb. Might be able to do more later though.
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billybobsky
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2011-05-02, 19:14

Animation wasn't the problem at the trap, the excessive signs were... if it is any help...

Down to just a couple hundred signs and the fps is up to normal standards...

Last edited by billybobsky : 2011-05-02 at 23:24.
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SpecMode
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2011-05-02, 19:30

I'll note that those signs slashed my fps by about two-thirds (60 -> 19) just from being close to the trap, even when they weren't actually visible. That had better be one damned impressive upgrade, or I'm gonna start making tons of TNT.
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Elysium
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2011-05-02, 19:33

There is a drop in fps from around 50 away from the rink to on average 30 inside the rink. I'm more worried about memory usage as I had 40% earlier while on alone.

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