[defaultmike]

In the recent weeks, we've seen the endless Powerbook G5 thread here at Applenova, and articles all over the mac web where users demand a G5 laptop. On the other hand, we also see Apple calling this possibility, "the mother of all thermal challanges" and refering to this as being all but impossible in the current form factor of the powerbooks, something that they're not willing to compromise.

Far to suggest that I'll be the one to come up with the "magical solution to this all", I'm simply asking: "what if Apple did this?"

We have the iBooks as consumer laptops, starting at 999, they're pretty cheap. Sure, apple could drop it 100-200 bucks, but I don't think anyone thinks that the current iBooks aren't enough bang for the buck.

Then we have the powerbooks. 1" thick computers that are more powerful, offer faster processors, a better GPU, screen rez, backlighted kb, FW 800, etc, etc. It's the perfect laptop for business men, and those who do care about portability and power. However, it's not really a desktop replacement laptop. On the PC side, we see laptops with desktop processors. Sure, they're thick, hot and ugly, but they're still fairly powerful.

Now imagine this. Apple creates a new line of notebooks, let's call this line "macBooks". They gear this line totally towards the people who care more about the desktop replacement part of laptops than their portability. They create a 1.5-1.7" thick laptop (slightly slimmer than the iMac). They stick a G5 in there, along with a pro GPU. Give it swappable bays, a dvd+/-rw, a really nice 17" (only) display, a couple more USB/Firewire ports, and mix all that with some of that apple design.

The main rule about this machine would be that this one isn't about the design or the portability, it's about the power. this laptop isn't for kids to take to school, it's for designers who wanna work only on one machine at home and at work. it's for filmmakers who want to have portability for their supercomputers, etc.

This would be a pro machine, and it's be priced like one too. Offered at only the 17" (dare I say 19" too?) size, and with large hdds and fast GPUs, this baby would have everything a desktop would. And when they finally made the G5s cool enough to fit in a powerbook/ibook, the macBook would go dual and faster. Keeping it like 6mo-1yr behind the top desktops.

So, am I just completely crazy or does this idea sound interesting to anyone else?

[Paul]

It is a nice idea, but it would be hard for apple to pull off. It would require an additional assembly line completely separate from any other product, it would come priced at a premium (starting at say $2499 to $3999?), and it would reduce demand for the 17" PowerBook--an EXTREMELY high-margin product.

So, for a large investment apple would gain a machine that would probably have very little demand.

It reminds me of the cube. I don't think Apple would be willing to risk something like that happening again unless market share increases significantly. In fact, I'd go as far as saying we will not see a "premium" notebook line (or really ANY radical notebook design, IE tablets) until market share pops up above 5% again.

With desktops, the barrier to entry for a new line is MUCH lower due to cheaper parts, easier quality control, and easy adoption of older designs. Notebooks do not have these advantages.

Hypothetically, it is a good idea. 17" and 20" display sizes, 4 Ram slots, dual hard drive options, and 64-bit dual-processor options. It would be the luxury SUV of the computer industry.

[Messiahtosh]

Apple will wait to bring the G5 to the portable computer, not some sickeningly thick, luggable computer. The 17'' PowerBook is already big as it is, and it's thickness is not the issue. Heck, the 15'' is too big for some people.

Within 9 months I bet we'll see a PowerBook G5 line (maybe at MWSF 2006 if Apple has engineering hang-ups) that retains the same size and weight of the current G4 one.

[Robo]

I agree with Messiahtosh (did I just say that?).

I'm thinking that, whatever it is, we're likely to see the next-generation Powerbook either at WWDC or Paris, and I'm pretty sure it'll be G5 (if they do go for G5, I'll give then 'til MWSF 2006). It could be some dual-core G4, dubbed "M5" or something, but I have to say I feel a G5 is more likely, thermal issues be damned.

But really, the important thing is, I'm very certain the next generation of Powerbooks is soon, and I'm saving my money so I can ignore your warnings and buy a Rev. A one.

Who hopes they'll be black?

[defaultmike]

I hope you're right messiatosh, I for one would love to see the current form factor of the pBooks getting a G5, however, I do think that apple is starting to lag behind in the notebook segment. I mean, isn't apple missing a laptop to go up against those 3.4GHz P4s with 800MHz of FSB ?

Apple laptops are on par if not ahead of PC laptops on everything, everything except processing speed. Sure, that isn't all there is, but it's important. I mean, since 2003, when the G5 came out, Apple managed to catch up and speed up ahead of PCs on the desktop, so why lag behind on their laptops?

Think of all the gamers who wouldn't mind the extra 0.5" and a bit of extra weight. Think of the people who are willing to shell out 2.500 for a laptop. Try thinking of this laptop as a replacement for the 17" powerbook...

[Paul]

Exactly.

There IS a market for "luggable" portables--look at alienware, et al. The question is whether it is worth it for Apple to enter the space. The debate is very similar to whether or not Apple should introduce a tablet sub-notebook or a headless iMac (HELLOOO Mac mini!). The key lies in the ability to market the product effectively without significant overlaps between the lines.

A cheap way to get this "luggable" computer would be to add a battery to the iMac G5 and allow it to sleep when unplugged for say 6 hours. It would require the user to plug it in to use, but not shut down.

[BlueRabbit]

Lately, it has seemed as though Apple would follow this route. At MWNY 2000, when Steve showed the Cube forming a new column in the product matrix, there would logically be a new laptop to fit into the space above the Cube. In that case, we'd have consumer, prosumer, and professional lines of laptops in addition to desktops.

We are getting close to this point again. Now, there is the Mac mini & eMac (consumer), iMac (prosumer), and Powermac (professional). Also, with the 17" PB having dropped from $3300 to $2700 since its release, there is room for an awesome laptop on top of that. In fact, it hasn't been that long since the high-end G3 PB cost $3500.

However, this will not happen. The iBook/Powerbook lineup is already awesome. I've seen countless PC users amazed that Apple could fit everything that they do into the 12" PB, while the 17" is much more powerful, yet still insanely thin. I don't see Apple giving up this 'cool' aspect of their laptops so easily.

The only application I can see is a 'super-laptop', kind of like a G3 PB/iBook on steroids. It would lose the amazingly-thin aspect of the Powerbooks, while gaining ruggedness –*as in you-can-throw-it-across-the-room ruggedness. The new HD tech in the new PB's seems to lend itself towards that. I'm sure there's a pretty big market for such a computer that hasn't really been tapped yet.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Apple will wait to bring the G5 to the portable computer, not some sickeningly thick, luggable computer. The 17'' PowerBook is already big as it is, and it's thickness is not the issue. Heck, the 15'' is too big for some people.

Yes, and many are also complaining that the heat of the current line is borderline acceptable.

Certainly a thick 2" laptop is not the way to go, but I'd settle for something thicker (perhaps like the iBook), if it were to mean faster and cooler Powerbooks.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by defaultmike The main rule about this machine would be that this one isn't about the design or the portability, it's about the power.

Well, Apple is *always* about the design and portability, so your argument loses steam based on that alone.

[LoCash]

Originally Posted by BlueRabbit Lately, it has seemed as though Apple would follow this route. At MWNY 2000, when Steve showed the Cube forming a new column in the product matrix, there would logically be a new laptop to fit into the space above the Cube. In that case, we'd have consumer, prosumer, and professional lines of laptops in addition to desktops. We are getting close to this point again...

Actually, we're not. It is important to note that Apple stopped using that grid system after the Cube. In addition, if you recall to when the grid system first appeared, it was when Jobs was talking about simplifying Apple's product offerings. He showed a slide that listed all the xx00 systems (7100, 7200, 7300, 7500, 9500, 9600, 3400, 2400, 1400, and so on) and mentinoed how confusing it was and that he wanted to dramatically simplify that.

However, now that Apple has grown and expanded their market, that simple grid is no longer necessary. Condensing the products was to condense what Apple offered to not only simplify it for customers but to also increase profit margins by offering less systems. This is no longer as applicable, and the death of the grid happened many years ago.

[JayReding]

At the point you create a "luggable" laptop, you lose the whole portability factor that Apple is famous for, and you basically end up with a slightly smaller version of the iMac. No doubt Apple could technically do it, but I think the replies here make it clear why they won't. The market for "luggable" laptops is not all that large, and a professional user isn't going to use a laptop for design work regardless. It's just not a market that's worth the costs of entering into.

[Robo]

I agree with Jay. I won't say "never," but after Apple introduces a TabletBook, then we'll talk.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by defaultmike So, am I just completely crazy...?

Not crazy per se, just exhibiting an advanced stage of Macheadedness—the stage when you imagine and then painstakingly elaborate to others your concepts for Apple's next best product offering...





:smokey:

[ßlack]

Why dont you call it lapBurner

[defaultmike]

Just think of the G5 towers. They weren't built based on their design, they were built to be functional. The design was just something that came afterwards to "wrap it up nicely". I mean, while brilliantly designed, the G5 towers are really big, because apple used up as much room as they needed to in order to create the best pro desktop they could. All I was trying to say is that perhaps if they give in, and decide to create a laptop that's about as thick as any other (powerful) PC laptop, maybe there'd be people who'd buy it.

[mama's left eye]

If they threw some G5s in there and dusted it off I think this is the answer everyone has been looking for...

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/...sp?st=1&c=1005

[defaultmike]

alright, I give up, I guess there isn't a market for a 9lb laptop that's 2" thick.... oh wait...
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/prod...cstab#tabt op

yep, there's the Dell Inspiron XPS I sorta forgot about it for a sec. silly me! (sarcastic)
Or the Inspiron 8600 one with a Pentium M, that's 1.52" thick...

but I'll give up now, no more arguing. Maybe one day Apple will release a true proline of laptops, maybe it wont. Regardless, we'll all still bitch about what they should do, bitch about how bad it'd be if they did something else instead, then buy the "hated" product love it, then come here to tell everyone about how great :chuckle:

[Chinney]

I believe that Apple will come up with an more elegant solution than a 9 pound lap burner. I just don't see that being in line with their philosophy. The latest revision of the PB speed was no earth shaker, but I have to believe that this last revision was a placeholder for something better in six-nine months.

[lewd0006]

heh.. my 12" PB is a lapburner! but that's because i use it 23 out the 24 hours in every day

[flail]

Originally Posted by defaultmike alright, I give up, I guess there isn't a market for a 9lb laptop that's 2" thick.... oh wait... http://www1.us.dell.com/content/prod...cstab#tabt op yep, there's the Dell Inspiron XPS I sorta forgot about it for a sec. silly me! (sarcastic)

Wooow, look at the summary at the top of the "higher end" system. 1 Ghz of memory!

[Paul]

Well, Apple is rumored to be coming out with what you propose...


It actually doesn't look that bad!!

www.divisiontwo.com is AWESOME!

[IonYz]

At first I thought, ok. Why would people who want a laptop buy something so wrong. But I suppose if the Mac mini can straddle the lines being a highly-portable, small desktop the otherside of the coin works too.

But unless a radically differently G5 is introduced something will have to be given; thicker, hotter, or if super-cool technology is used, lots of kinks. So really if you like portable erm-portables wouldn't right now be a great time to buy?

Meh, yeah the "PowerBooks" could use a speed boost if an iMac can outperform them. Then again I hope no one expects a PowerBook G5 to ever match a Power Mac G5 in speed. POWER4-based, desktop G5s just feel like they will develop differently then the embedded, lower-heat G4.

[autodata]

Are people really having performance issues with the current powerbooks? I'm still on a ghz titanium and the processor is more than adequate. The bottleneck on my machine is the HD, not the processor.

[MacGregor]

You're describing an iMac G5 portable, not a PowerBook. Take an iMac and put a hinge on it with the screen on oneside and a keyboard on the other. Right now it can not be made any thinner or lighter than that. Now would you buy it?

As a desktop replacement, I like the idea of changing the iMac, not the Powerbook. I've seen beautiful Sony Viaos that my smart PC friends are buying as desktop replacements. They are heavy, have expansive docks and glass displays. Nice things for a desktop. They may move them once/month. Make an iMac where the stand can fold inside and out of the way and figure out a way to cover, protect the screen during the few times you do move it, then it will do what you want.

To get the market you are describing is much easier from the iMac side than from the PowerBook side....technically anyway.

I just hope that good LCD's become cheap enough that you can have several in the house and just move the Mac Mini around!!!! Cheaper, more stable, etc....the MacPod.

[defaultmike]

Originally Posted by MacGregor You're describing an iMac G5 portable, not a PowerBook. Take an iMac and put a hinge on it with the screen on oneside and a keyboard on the other. Right now it can not be made any thinner or lighter than that. Now would you buy it? As a desktop replacement, I like the idea of changing the iMac, not the Powerbook. I've seen beautiful Sony Viaos that my smart PC friends are buying as desktop replacements. They are heavy, have expansive docks and glass displays. Nice things for a desktop. They may move them once/month. Make an iMac where the stand can fold inside and out of the way and figure out a way to cover, protect the screen during the few times you do move it, then it will do what you want. To get the market you are describing is much easier from the iMac side than from the PowerBook side....technically anyway. I just hope that good LCD's become cheap enough that you can have several in the house and just move the Mac Mini around!!!! Cheaper, more stable, etc....the MacPod.

I don't honestly see the difference between a portable iMac, and what I'm describing. Yeah, it'd be 1.5" thick, which is close to the iMac's 2inches, but what do I care? As long as it's in laptop form, call it portable iMac or call it ubberMac. As long as it gets made, I couldn't care less...

Although I have to admit, I have no clue what you meant about the whole "iMac as a desktop replacement" thing... I could swear that the iMac was a desktop computer........

[Brad]

Originally Posted by defaultmike I don't honestly see the difference between a portable iMac, and what I'm describing. Yeah, it'd be 1.5" thick, which is close to the iMac's 2inches, but what do I care?

I think you are conveniently forgetting the surface area and volume consumed by the iMac G5's components. Can you imagine a PowerBook that's 1,900 cubic inches, the "smaller" iMac G5's size? By comparison, the current 17" PowerBook is a mere 157 cubic inches in volume. You're talking about introducing a PowerBook that's not only thicker, it's also significantly wider and deeper as well.

If you actually want such a machine, you are way outside of Apple's current demographic.

[rasmits]

Originally Posted by Brad I think you are conveniently forgetting the surface area and volume consumed by the iMac G5's components. Can you imagine a PowerBook that's 1,900 cubic inches, the "smaller" iMac G5's size? By comparison, the current 17" PowerBook is a mere 157 cubic inches in volume. You're talking about introducing a PowerBook that's not only thicker, it's also significantly wider and deeper as well. If you actually want such a machine, you are way outside of Apple's current demographic.

Not to mention the weight. I just picked mine up, and to hold that on my lap for any period longer then 5 minutes would cut off all the flood flow, and my legs would fall off.

I don't know how much of that is the work of the built-in stand, but jeeze...