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17" PB G4 fan on constantly after installing Tiger


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17" PB G4 fan on constantly after installing Tiger
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wjmatier
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Join Date: May 2005
 
2005-05-03, 14:31

Anyone out there know why the fan on my PB is on all the time after installing Tiger? You could fry an egg on the thing!

Ta, w
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Bryson
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2005-05-03, 14:35

Have you just installed it? It could be that Spotlight is still indexing.
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Franz Josef
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2005-05-03, 14:42

As the man said, could be Spotlight indexing - depending on size of hard drive can take up to an hour. I found cleaning caches and rebooting a few times moved my CPU rate from 100% down to 10-20%.

FJ
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alcimedes
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2005-05-03, 14:42

spotlight is indexing your HD and is pegging the CPU at 100%. nothing to worry about. took almost a day for it to finish up my HD. it was full of indexible files, took for-bloody-ever.

actually, this is the third or fourth time a new tiger installer has asked this question, think i'll add this thread as a sticky for the next couple of weeks.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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BlueRabbit
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2005-05-03, 17:43

Also, Dashboard takes a bunch of CPU. Whenever you activate it, the CPU level jumps a lot (usually to 100% on my 1 GHz 12" PB).
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wjmatier
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2005-05-04, 13:17

Spotlight has finished, it finished in about an hour, but the fan is STILL running all the bloomin' time, all I am running is Safari, Quark 6, Suitcase, iTunes and Mail (I use Final Cut Pro as well, but not since I upgraded). It was never this bad before, even when I am just using Airtunes the fan is going mad! Makes me wonder if I should totally wipe my OS partition an start from scratch. Any thoughts?
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BlueRabbit
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2005-05-04, 15:48

I'd check Activity Viewer (in the Applications/Utilities folder) and see which programs are taking up a lot of CPU first. It sounds like you aren't using much, but there's probably some background process that's taking up the processor, and making it really hot.
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-04, 17:02

I've been having this problem as well and its certainly not because Spotlight is indexing as you all say. Spotlight finished days ago.

Powerbook G4/667 VGA

Fan constantly running when on power supply and computer is burning up. it's hot as hell. I close every single program and its still doing that. I have no idea whats going on.
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alcimedes
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2005-05-04, 17:31

run a "top" command and see if you have a misbehaving dashboard widget. i've found a few that run at 30% CPU on a 1.5Ghz machine at all times. when i kill them the procesoor usage drops down to 2% again.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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digitaldave
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2005-05-04, 17:56

I've been having the same problem since installing Tiger. I've looked in both Activity Monitor and using top, and there are no processes that use up large chunks of CPU time, even when you add up all the individual CPU times reported by activity monitor. However, I do see an occasional (approx. every two minutes or so) CPU activity bump to around 30% for about 30 seconds each time. The weird thing is that the process CPU times don't account for this increase.

There's definitely something going on...
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wjmatier
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2005-05-04, 18:20

Hi, I ran a 'top' command, there doesn't seem to be too much going on that would overheat and make the fan come on - the fan is still on when I put my PB to sleep (close the lid that is), should I wipe my partition and start from scratch?
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wjmatier
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2005-05-04, 18:24

Hold on a minute, found vshield that was using 80% of my CPU! Now this may be a dumb question, but what is vshield? I killed it and hey presto my fan has finally stopped!
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Brad
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2005-05-04, 18:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldave
However, I do see an occasional (approx. every two minutes or so) CPU activity bump to around 30% for about 30 seconds each time.
Did you see the post right above yours? Are you running any Dashboard widgets, in particular any third-party ones? Get rid of them and see if your problem persists.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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pscates2.0
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2005-05-04, 18:28

Ha...this was my EXACT situation last week.

It's Virex! Something about it and Tiger don't play nice, I suppose. In fact, Apple no longer offers it on .Mac (not sure if that'll change in the future or what).

But someone here sent me a link that completely removes Virex and all its stuff from your Mac and I haven't heard the fan since. And yes, in my Activity Monitor, it was showing that vshield thing taking ALL my resources...my fan was churning and my PowerBook was hot as Pop-Tart.



Here's the link I used to uninstall Virex...

http://www.networkassociates.com/us/...ex/virex76.htm
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Brad
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2005-05-04, 18:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmatier
Hold on a minute, found vshield that was using 80% of my CPU!
It's part of Virex. Virex has a number of incompatibilities with Tiger and should be removed until McAffee announces an update.

edit: Curses! Beat be a monkey!
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wjmatier
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2005-05-04, 18:39

THX for that, ran the uninstaller and everything is fine. thx everyone for all your help.

Thank god for these forums, there aren't many Mac users in Belfast, so thanks!
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alcimedes
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2005-05-04, 21:32

No problem, you're welcome.
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digitaldave
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2005-05-05, 02:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Did you see the post right above yours? Are you running any Dashboard widgets, in particular any third-party ones? Get rid of them and see if your problem persists.
Yes, I saw that post . I'm sure it's not a widget, and it's not Virex (I've never had it on mysystem).

Using top, I get the following tasks:

top: 10%
kernel_tas: 7%
Terminal: 1%

Followed by three or four other tasks that use less than 0.5% each (none of them widgets). However, the total CPU use is reported as 3% user, 10% sys, which although not exactly the same is at least in the same ball park. The occasional bumps have 3% user 33% sys, but the indivisual tasks do not increase, i.e. they remain at the same level as the normal low level activity. So what's using those extra CPU cycles and not being reported in the task list?

I've done a complete 'erase & install' and it's still doing it . I've checked that there are no widgets running, and that there aren't even any installed other than the defaults, and I've even deleted the widgets preference files, and still no joy .

So is there anything else I can try?

EDIT: tried resetting PRAM, didn't make a difference.

Last edited by digitaldave : 2005-05-05 at 04:03.
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firlgriend
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2005-05-05, 06:24

i have the same problem with a pb 12". sad, i tried all this already. can it be that apple decided to run the fan at lower temperatures on some PB? strange that some people experience this and some not though... anyways, you're not alone
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alcimedes
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2005-05-05, 08:33

Your fan is coming on while it's using ~15 - 20% CPU?

Have you tried unplugging it? I know on my wife's sometimes recharging the battery would make it hot enough to kick the fans on.

There are three or four sources of heat. HD, Power Supply, GPU and CPU. It's usually the CPU, but can be one of those other three.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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digitaldave
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2005-05-05, 08:48

Sorry, no, what I should have said is that in normal use, CPU load is very low, but it occasionally ramps up to around 35% for about 30 seconds. After a while, these continual bumps cause the temperature to steadily rise to the point that the left hand underside gets very hot and the fans run a lot. This is compared with how it used to run under Panther, where I could use it for much longer periods without it getting any where near as hot as it does now.

I'll try to post some screen shots later to illustrate, as that might make it clear .
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digitaldave
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2005-05-05, 09:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
Have you tried unplugging it? I know on my wife's sometimes recharging the battery would make it hot enough to kick the fans on.
I've just realised that it's been running pretty much all the time on the power adaptor since Tiger was installed, whereas I usually use it on battery power and only connect the adaptor to recharge. I'll give it a run on battery power tonight, and see how that goes.
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pscates2.0
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2005-05-05, 09:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
edit: Curses! Beat by a monkey!
If I had a nickel for everytime I heard that...
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ironlung
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "Chambana", IL
 
2005-05-19, 19:14

How 'loud' should the powerbook be? I hear the fan on...but slightly as compared to the powerbook being completely silent when its in sleep for instance

Last edited by ironlung : 2005-05-19 at 19:22.
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SantaBarbarian
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2005-05-20, 01:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironlung
How 'loud' should the powerbook be? I hear the fan on...but slightly as compared to the powerbook being completely silent when its in sleep for instance
Good point. On my PB12 .9GHz it's not exactly deafening. Just annoying. The pitch and volume
changes a lot, but I don't know if constant drone would be worse. I do know that after a couple of hours
of it I was getting a bit testy.

FYI: Thinking this thread had died, I started another on the fan topic today. After my last post in that
thread I tried killing a bunch of processes with A.M. and the fan just kept on going. Interestingly though,
when I then did another Restart the fan didn't come back on in the few minutes more I waited before
putting it to sleep. I'll post a followup in the other thread tomorrow.
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SantaBarbarian
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2005-05-24, 14:55

OK, I've officially given up on fixing this fan/heat issue on my PB12. I want to express again my appreciation for all the ideas and support here, and to summarize for anyone else facing this problem the main things I've learned.

1. There really is something inherent in Tiger that makes Macs run hotter. My current opinion is that it's related to the fact that many process threads formerly handled by the CPU have been shifted to the Graphics processor. The result of this is that Tiger runs blazingly faster on many tasks, because the Graphics unit is vastly more efficient at those tasks. The downside is that at least some Macs (my powerbook, for example) aren't designed to handle the extra heat produced, without the fan coming on.

2. There's currently nothing that can be done about the shift of graphics routines to the Graphics processor. Maybe Apple will offer something to throttle down its speed as is possible now with the CPU in System Prefs/Energy Saver. Maybe someone will find a library that can be swapped in from an earlier version of OS X, as is now possible for fan control by swapping in a file from 10.2.8 as described elsewhere.

3. Just turning off the fan will solve noise issues, but won't help with the extra heat. Therefore, someone like me who uses a PowerBook on their laps will trade a noise issue for a heat issue and possibly also a durability issue due to the higher operating temperature. Turning down the CPU speed in Energy Saver will help if your CPU load is high, but often CPU load's not the cause and it also means a slower Mac.

4. Some Macs, including PowerBooks, seem to have a Graphics unit that's designed to handle heat better and/or generate less of it when running the fabulously superior graphics routines in Tiger. I haven't tried to track which models those are, but they seem to be some of the newer ones than mine.

5. If you are having heat or fan problems, the first thing to check is what processes are running and what your total CPU load is. As with all versions of OS X, if you have processes using up 100% of the CPU time for extended periods, you're going to have heat problems (and the fan will come on if your model has one). In the Applications/Utilities folder you'll probably find Activity Monitor, which you can use to find out what processes are running and how hard the CPU is working. Keep in mind that the load changes depending on what application is in the foreground, so you might position your open windows so that you can switch between apps and still see the Activity Monitor to note any changes in load conditions.

6. There are several common problems with relatively simple solutions that can completely eliminate heat and fan problems on many models. These include: Virex (find and remove all traces, and make sure there's nothing like that in your list of running processes); Dashboard Widgets (several of these have been found to cause heat/fan issues, so try turning them all off); Norton and several other utility programs.

The most common heat cause of all after newly installing Tiger is Spotlight, which goes nuts for up to a day or more indexing all your files. If your investigation with Activity Monitor reveals high CPU load, you can: a. find out what the names of the Spotlight processes are and see if those are the CPU hogs; b. temporarily turn off Spotlight indexing by opening System Prefs/Spotlight, clicking on the + sign in the Privacy tab and adding your hard disk and any attached drives; c. leave your Mac running with screen turned down or off and sleep mode turned off for a day or two.

7. If like me none of the above issues applies, your Activity Monitor will show about 3% or less in CPU load yet after the Mac's running for a while it starts getting hot and if you're doing certain things the fan will come on and then usually stay on. For me a great way to get the fan going is to log in via dialup (haven't tried WiFi yet to see if that does it too). My belief is that the modem puts out just enough extra heat to get the fan going. Some applications contribute too, like Eudora 5.2 which can spike up to 70% on CPU load when I'm composing an email. I've also found that launching FileMaker 3 or 4 in Classic will immediately peg the CPU load and get the fan going full blast. Classic in Jaguar 10.2.8 did the same thing for me, but in Tiger it also adds a cute little keyboard repeat stuttering problem. In case you're wondering about a clean install, I haven't tried it but have seen posts by several who have tried it without success. I did try booting from the DVD, and the fan came on pretty quickly.

8. One last hopeful note. Since installing Tiger using Upgrade from 10.2.8 last week and after Spotlight had done its thing, I've noticed a gradual continuing improvement in heat/fan issues (possibly improving with each subsequent Restart). The heat takes longer to build up, and the fan takes longer to come on. A few times it has even shut off again once it did start. There may be something automatically adjusting itself somewhere in the bowels of the Tiger that accounts for this, the hard disk is cooler due to defragmentation, or maybe the fan's just clearing out dust that had built up inside the case due to the fan not running before (though I've seen no signs of dust anywhere).

If anyone here has access to MacFixIt, I'd appreciate you posting something about heat/fan issues there, because I've seen no such mention. If I had, it would have been a great help in deciding whether to upgrade and in dealing with the issues I've been so distracted with for the past week. There are plenty of references elsewhere online, but of course I wasn't lucky enough to have seen them before buying Tiger.

I like Tiger, and still haven't decided whether to revert to Jag and wait for a solution. First because I doubt that a solution will come, and second because I like some of the new features including the speed increase.

Enjoy


About This Mac: 10.4.1, G4 867MHz, 640MB DDR SDRAM, 40GB.

Last edited by SantaBarbarian : 2005-05-24 at 15:03.
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