Solitaire or other card game [Archive]

AsLan^

2005-12-07, 20:36

So... "Solitaire or other card game" got the next highest vote count in the "which project should we start" thread. Curiously enough there wasn't too much overlap between those that voted for the CMS and those that voted for a card game.

So let's start a card game too :)

Which game and which programming language ?

I'm good with java, and have a basic knowledge of C.

pmazer

2005-12-07, 22:41

I would think that Cocoa, as long as there are enough people, would be the best bet.

Mr Beardsley

2005-12-08, 03:20

I'm all about Cocoa. That and there are always people asking about how to do Obj-C/Cocoa programming. I can set us up a repository once we pick a project name. After that I'll post instructions on how to get things working with Xcode.

Mr Beardsley

2005-12-08, 03:21

Oh and for those worried about not knowint Obj-C, it is a snap to learn if you understand OO concepts. I think you'll find yourself liking parts of Obj-C much more than Java.

AsLan^

2005-12-08, 04:21

Obj-C / Cocoa sounds good to me too.

As for the game, I've never been fond of gambling with pretend money, it just takes the fun out of it for me, what's a card game with a non-monetary angle ?

spotcatbug

2005-12-08, 07:50

what's a card game with a non-monetary angle ?
Um... Solitaire? :)

AsLan^

2005-12-08, 09:09

For some reason, I had multiplayer in mind and completely forgot about solitaire, solitaire is as good a card game as any. I was trying to think of something two (or more) people could play where they wouldn't be playing for imaginary cash where the risk of losing real money is part of the excitement of the game i.e. blackjack and poker.

Did any of you guys ever play that game Billionaire (http://www.brandnameproperties.com/pages/services/games/billionaire.php) I'm not suggesting we copy that guys game, just that some innovative games can be made using cards and fairly simple rules (in the billionaire game, people trade cards with each other to try and build a flush hand, everyone plays at the same time and you can say whatever you want, but you cannot show your cards to anyone, i.e. you say you will trade such and such but after the trade they can see it was really something else, great game).

spotcatbug

2005-12-08, 09:39

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't mind coming up with some card game other than Solitaire - it's been done to death. I just thought it was funny that you forgot about Solitaire.

Multi-player sounds neat. I tried to do an iChat-integrated poker game a while back. But, of course, that's got fake money in it.

hflomberg

2005-12-08, 10:21

Cobol?

rollercoaster375

2005-12-08, 10:47

Spider solitare!

There still isn't a good, free spider solitare for OS X.

spotcatbug

2005-12-08, 12:15

That Solitaire widget does the spider variation. I know, you said "good". I don't know if that widget is any good. I just know it does Spider.

torifile

2005-12-08, 14:01

Spider solitare!

There still isn't a good, free spider solitare for OS X.
I second this one! My wife loves spider and the only decent version she's found only runs on windows. :\ She often wishes she had a better version available to her. It'd be nice if I could help her out. :)

pmazer

2005-12-08, 14:51

I'm all for helping to make a spider solitaire game

thuh Freak

2005-12-08, 16:35

i'll help. wtf is spider?

pmazer

2005-12-08, 18:50

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_%28solitaire%29

BarracksSi

2005-12-08, 22:02

No money?

Crazy Eights!

Go Fish!

UNO (or some copyright-avoiding derivative)

Rummy!

There are others...

pmazer

2005-12-08, 22:21

I'm thinking that we should probably do some type of solitaire game because our project will most likely have neither the user base nor the ability to track servers for a multiuser game.

AsLan^

2005-12-09, 03:27

I'm thinking that we should probably do some type of solitaire game because our project will most likely have neither the user base nor the ability to track servers for a multiuser game.You don't need dedicated servers for a multiplayer card game, just players who know each others IP address (<shamelessPlug>see MacJanu below</shamelessPlug>) but anyways...

Spider solitaire sounds like a good choice, we wont be reinventing the wheel, so the likelyhood of the project getting stuck for technical reasons is slim to none.

We can focus on distinguishing ours as a good macintosh application.

Mr Beardsley

2005-12-09, 21:05

I like the idea of cloning an existing game for the first time out. It makes writing requirements and design much easier. For a lot of people requirements and design are the hardest to force yourself to do.

AsLan^

2005-12-10, 04:10

I've done up an outline on how I think the project should go. I've never done this before so please feel free to give feedback.

Spider Solitaire Project Outline

Objective:

To create a good Spider Solitaire implementation for OS X

Conditions:

The game will be written in Cocoa
The game will licenced with a TBD open source licence

What needs to be done:

Phase 1

- The game needs a "working" name
- Members interested in activley participating in the project need to be named and (possibly) task organized
- A suitable method for collaboration needs to be established i.e. a wiki
- Develop suitable drafts for the implementation of the game
- An open source license needs to be chosen

Phase 1 complete after all above tasks have been completed

Phase 2

- Choose an implemetation from the drafts and start coding (coding will require its own outline as this is the biggest task of the project)
- Develop artworks (graphics and sound) to be used within the game

Phase 2 complete with a working alpha of the game

Phase 3

- Testing and Quality Assurance
- Finalize artworks to be used within the game
- Finish coding
- Write documentation
- Develop product home page for distribution

Phase 3 complete with a working beta ready for distribution

Phase 4

- Distribute the game
- Maintain code (fix bugs)

Phase 4 complete one month after last bug fixed

Phase 5

- Remove "beta" label without breaking anything
- Project complete :)

torifile

2005-12-10, 06:36

Some requests for the game (from my wife):

1) Cards flip automatically
2) Completed stack goes up automatically
3) Point penalty for undoing.

Basically - like the windows version. She wants things to make the game play go quickly.

Also, what about having game "#'s" so you could play the same game on multiple machines (like they have in freecell).

We'd be available for bug testing. :)

drewprops

2005-12-10, 08:30

Good outline AsLan. Don't forget the icon is part of the graphics package.

spotcatbug

2005-12-10, 10:02

Has anybody seen Solitaire XL? I'd like for us to do 3D cards (in the sense that they flip around in 3D) on a transparent background like that app.

Just throwing that out there now.

Mr Beardsley

2005-12-10, 11:20

Good outline AsLan^, can I add a couple things?

Phase 1 might need to be split into 2 parts. Requirements and design.

Requirements would be choosing all the behavior torifile listed, choosing how the cards flip, and explicity saying how all the functions of the game should work. We will have to make decisions about the following:

Splash screen or no?
Keep high scores or no?
iTunes integration to choose song from your library or no?
How do you score, and how much is it worth?
If undoing lowers you score how much?

That's just a couple examples of stuff that needs to be pinned down before we start designing. Usually you want to hammer out requirements as best you can and then set them in stone for the rest of the project. Also part of the requirements can be the administrative questions that AsLan^ brought up. Licensing, Name, tools to use, getting the group organised, language it will be written in, if all these are figured out early on, it will make things a lot easier.

The next phase would be the design phase, and will invovle figuring out the classes we need, what nib files to use, what format we'd like the game assets in, all pretty straight forward. It has been my experience that you usually bounce back and forth between the design and implementation phases quite a bit. As we get into the project we may see parts of the design that don't work as well, and find ways of doing things better. The hard part is keeping the design updated to match the current implementation.

ahdustin

2005-12-10, 15:18

rollercoaster375

2005-12-10, 19:48

I like the outline, very nicely done. But I would opt for the GNU GPL, but no reason to argue over this now. Lets get a list finalized ASAP. I can code in Cocoa, so I can contribute to the actual hard part of the game.
GNU GPL is redundant. The "G" in "GPL" stands for GNU.

I will try my best to help with this, but I'm not experienced in Cocoa/Objective-C. However, I'm hoping this will help me figure some things, out, and hopefully, I'll be able to contribute later on in the project.

drewprops

2005-12-11, 01:04

you know, the "G" in GNU is kinda-sorta uber-recursive itself. I'm also Cocoa/Obj-C ignorant but would be interested in designing a set of cards. Am I wrong to expect the game to be open for users to create their own card designs? How difficult could it be to allow for different themes?

ahdustin

2005-12-11, 01:27

GNU GPL is redundant. The "G" in "GPL" stands for GNU.

Actually, if you refer to the gnu.org site, the G in GPL stands for general. So it is proper to say the GNU GPL, the GNU General Public Liscense.

AsLan^

2005-12-11, 10:49

I agree with you Mr Beardsley and I think game requirements should go into Phase 1. I think design is part of Phase 2 because Phase 1 is mostly conceptual and administrative.

It seems that too much time has passed since I posted the outline and I can't edit it, which means we need a wiki.

I don't have any objection to hosting the wiki on my server, but if someone else would like to maintain the wiki on their server, that's okay too. Using a free wiki service is an option but I am unfamiliar with them and I would prefer something without advertising.

Anybody got any preferences or experience with any wiki software ? or want to host the wiki ? If not, I can try and set up a media wiki tomorrow on my server and then we can continue hashing out Phase 1.

I like the outline, very nicely done. But I would opt for the GNU GPL, but no reason to argue over this now. Lets get a list finalized ASAP. I can code in Cocoa, so I can contribute to the actual hard part of the game. I like the GNU GPL too, but I do think we need to decide that at the beginning so everyone is on the same sheet of music. Some people feel differently about software licensing and we dont want to have the project stall later because of an ideological dispute.

I'm glad you guys like the outline, after we get that wiki set up then we can refine it and start knocking out those objectives.

ahdustin

2005-12-11, 11:57

I have hosted a wiki before, and I can set one up on my server real easy. Let me know if thats good for everyone. It would be MediaWiki, the same as wikipedia. Then we can have are discussions on that. When ya'll give the greenligh, I'll have it set up and post the link ASAP.

ahdustin

2005-12-11, 12:28

here is link: http://www.dbachrach.com/solitaire/

Just set up a quick wiki.

AsLan^

2005-12-11, 13:49

Wow, that was fast, great :)

rollercoaster375

2005-12-11, 15:19

Actually, if you refer to the gnu.org site, the G in GPL stands for general. So it is proper to say the GNU GPL, the GNU General Public Liscense.
Wow, sorry about that <_< I knew that, just didn't think about it.

AsLan^

2005-12-11, 22:25

If you are interested in particpating in the Spider Solitaire project could you please go and put your name down at the wiki. As well take a look at what we've got so far.

I think if you want to create a new page, you have to ask ahdustin, which he was happy to do when I asked him to create a page to store the outline.

So, please go on over there, sign up, and take a look. I should note that having the wiki up doesn't exclude applenova as a form of communication, the wiki is a great tool for us to store things like project outlines, requirements, artwork, etc. where other users can see it, comment on it, change it etc.

ahdustin

2005-12-11, 23:01

no you can create a new page easily, in the url bar just change index.php?title=Main_Page to index.php?title=Whatever_Page_You_Want

With that sort of capitilization and spaces (undescores). You can link to the page when you edit another page by surrounding the name like Whatever Page You Want in [[ and ]]

ex: [[Team Members]] will ink to index.php?title=Team_Members

AsLan^

2005-12-11, 23:05

Excellent, I thought there was like an administrators panel or something that you were using for that. What a great tool.

pmazer

2005-12-12, 11:21

About the tab size... shouldn't we just use tabs rather than spaces so that people can choose their own tab size which they're most comfortable with?

AsLan^

2005-12-12, 11:57

About the tab size... shouldn't we just use tabs rather than spaces so that people can choose their own tab size which they're most comfortable with?I have no idea... ahdustin originally put it as 5 spaces, a standard unix tab is 8 spaces so I changed it, assuming that if it was a problem he would change it back :)

spotcatbug

2005-12-12, 12:06

I prefer 4 spaces (characters) for tabs.

I just assumed "Tabs are 8 spaces" meant that the tabs would be 8 characters wide, but, now that I think about it, you wouldn't say "Tabs are 8 spaces" unless you were actually planning to use spaces instead of tabs.

AsLan^

2005-12-12, 12:14

I've put a little note next to that statement on the wiki.

I must say, I'm actually unfamiliar with wiki etiquette. I know you can revert pages back to how they were and also see the changes that have been made to a document. But are you supposed to just change things you dont like ? Of course I wouldn't change another persons comments or annotations, but what about other things, like the outline, coding guidelines etc.

I didn't really think about it at the time.

ahdustin

2005-12-12, 19:19

Now that we have the wiki setup: http://www.dbachrach.com/solitaire

And we have picked a liscense: GNU GPL

We need to choose a name.

I really have no creative names. Some suggestions have been:

applenova spider solitaire
solitary spider

But I am impartial to those, and we really need to cast some ideas. Once we have some ideas, we can make a poll and vote.

ahdustin

2005-12-12, 19:30

Also, we want to get an icon as well. Right now we have a few ideas. Click here to see them:

http://dbachrach.com/solitaire/index.php?title=Scratch

There are two images on there, but please if you want spruce them up or make your own.

Post them on the wiki or on this forum. After we have a few, we can vote.

spotcatbug

2005-12-13, 08:00

Spidernova?

Also, we need the rules written down somewhere. I have no idea how to play Spider Solitaire.

AsLan^

2005-12-13, 08:09

Spidernova?

Also, we need the rules written down somewhere. I have no idea how to play Spider Solitaire.We should hold off on integrating any kind of applenova endorsement into the project just yet, the applenova admin's are coming up with a formal policy on this and they may decide against it.

As for the rules, if someone who is familiar with spider solitaire would post the rules to the wiki, that would be great ! It's a pretty fun game but I'm unfamiliar with all the different implementations and I'm not sure which one is best.

Brian

2005-12-14, 08:21

this sounds like an awesome project. I would love to help.
I can code in C and Java, but I'm new to Cocoa as well.. I'll put my name down on wiki.. awsome logo by the way and nice outline. :)

pmazer

2005-12-20, 14:20

A quick update: no, we're not dead, we're just talking on the Wiki. So if you're interested in helping, start posting there! We're currently working on hashing out the requirements for the game.

totoguile

2005-12-24, 10:02

AsLan^

2005-12-24, 15:04

Hello,
Just to thank you beginning this project (The only program missing to help me to switch my mother's computer)
I can help you if you want to translate the program in french (but I'm not developer)

here is a set of svg card : http://david.bellot.free.fr/svg-cards/
here is a freecell project : http://randomoracle.com/freecell/
hope these links can help you :)

I personally dont know too much about internationalization, I assume if we use "keys" and "playlists" during our development then translation and localization will be a fairly simple process. I personally am hoping to work on the graphics routines so I may not have too much input into that area.

If you are really interested in translating the game to french, please put your name on the wiki and specify your area of expertise is translation to french, then we can keep internationalization in mind and email you when it's time for that :)