View Full Version : I love a good Tuesday morning Apple Store stickie note.
Apple Store is down.
Siggraph starts today.
There are 5*(!) new G5 models listed in the new 10.3.5 Library Extentions:
1 PowerMac
2 PowerBooks
1 iMac (assumed)
1 Mystery Machine™
Gentlemen (and Carol)....start your Tuesday morning engines.
:) :) :)
* Credit where credit is due (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45079) .
Gentlemen (and Carol)=
:lol:
Let's hope it's something good, and not like...a $20 rebate ;)
LudwigVan
2004-08-10, 07:25
* Credit where credit is due (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45079) .
I'll post a copy of Rhumgod's post here for convenience:
I think there will be a wide product change soon. More than just iMac. Why?
Peek at this file from the latest Mac OS X 10.3.5 update:
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC4PE.kext/Content/Info.plist
<key>IOPlatformPluginTable</key>
<dict>
<key>PowerBook7,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerBook7,2</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac7,2</key>
<string>PowerMac7_2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac7,3</key>
<string>PowerMac7_2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac8,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac9,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>RackMac3,1</key>
<string>RackMac3_1_PlatformPlugin</string>
Now PowerBook7,1 PowerBook7,2 PowerMac8,1 (new iMac) and PowerMac9,1 (?) all get the SMU_Neo2 specs. Hmm, in 10.3.4 just the PowerMac8,1 had that spec.
Looks like we get a PowerTune G5 system for PowerBooks, iMacs and a new PowerMac, from what I can tell.
Motion shipping.
Final Cut HD + Motion + DVD Studio Pro 3 = Production Suite = $1,299
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040810/sftu007_1.html
In other news: iTunes Music Store library reaches one million songs. (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040810/sftu021a_1.html)
Nice. Smart move by Apple to bundle these apps together.
Off to order Motion...
:)
And the store is back up. :)
Not bad, I can't wait to hear some reviews about motion.
psmith2.0
2004-08-10, 08:35
I'm not really up on what things like 8,1 and 9,4 mean, but if I'm reading all the above (and the appleinsider.com full thread that's linked) correctly, there appears to be an all-new PowerBook of some sort? Because of the numbers, it can't be merely a G4 PowerBook update? Is that why everyone's kinda torqued up?
:confused:
I don't know...I'm asking.
Surely there's no G5 PowerBook in the wings, is there? I'll be eating a plate full of crow if one appears before MWSF.
So what's all this mean, in idiot layman's terms? Those numbers and so forth. And do they lie? I mean, do they actually mean what they appear to, with no wiggle room for error or referring to a current product?
I'm just curious to know if it's worth getting excited over, so I can join in.
:D
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 11:14
Notice that there are 2 powerbook numbers. Most likely both G5. But, one model gets left out. The poor 12" powerbook.
I read it too fast. No new PowerMac build, the latest group are 7,3.
I'm assuming that the 'SMU_Neo2' is referring to the 970FX...but I thought that the Dual 2.5 had these chips. Now I'm confused.
The PowerBook 7,1 & 7,2 are new designations, and since they require the Neo2 plugin I'm guessing we'll see G5 PowerBooks next and not dual-core G4s or whatnot.
The PowerMac 8,1 was also in 10.3.4 (but not with the Neo2 thingy), so everybody assumed it was the new iMac. Probably meant to be available before now, just not with a 970FX.
The PowerMac 9,1 is an entirely new beast. Not sure at all what to make of it.
Notice that there are 2 powerbook numbers. Most likely both G5. But, one model gets left out. The poor 12" powerbook. I noticed that too. Maybe they're having trouble fitting the new liquid cooling into such a small footprint.
psmith2.0
2004-08-10, 11:31
Wow, this is all genuinely exciting! Is there any sort of time frame indicated by this? I mean, does this 10.3.5 update having this stuff in it, point to a "within the next month or so" scenario, or just more "open-ended, up until the end of 2004 and beyond".
The inclusion of these thing has to point to a "sooner rather than later" movement, right? Otherwise, couldn't they just be included in a late-autumn 10.3.6 update?
:confused:
So what we have here is two new PowerBook designations (that AREN'T G4s?) and an all-new mystery Power Mac or some sort (9,1)?
Neat.
Quad processor? The long-awaited 3GHz? A scaled-down mini-tower?
What are your best estimates as to when these things make their appearance? Paris? A special event later in September? Next week? The Tuesday before Thanksgiving?
for a second there I thought CubeDude won.
hehe. . .
psmith2.0
2004-08-10, 11:43
:confused:
windowsblowsass
2004-08-10, 11:44
I'll be eating a plate full of crow if one appears before MWSF.
:D
not only tht but youll be eating WITHOUT syrup :eek:
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 12:19
I noticed that too. Maybe they're having trouble fitting the new liquid cooling into such a small footprint.
Which also brings to mind my old thread at ai. " 12" funeral at G5". Will the 12" stay at G4 or will apple kill the 12" powerbooks and maybe dropping the prices of the 15" and 17" even more. I think it will just stay G4 and go to the 1.5 Ghz speed.
I think they will get G4s in the 1.5-2.0 GHz range. Apple won't drop the 12" PowerBook, nor will they leave it behind with a G4 while the other two have G5s. If they do that, people will just buy iBooks instead, even if the PowerBook is better.
psmith2.0
2004-08-10, 12:26
I can't imagine Apple killing the 12"! Isn't it very popular? I mean, if they wanted to lower the 15" G5 PowerBook to $1599 and $1799, then I'd be cool with that, of course.
:D
But I'd hate to see the 12" tanked.
If the 12" went to 1.5GHz and got the 128MB graphics option, I'd sell this 15" in a heartbeat! :eek:
I care less about a G5 PowerBook than I used to.
DMBand0026
2004-08-10, 12:30
I don't see the 12" dying. That's Apple's pro portable. You can't just kill that. It'll get a G5 like everything else. And I'm less excited about the G5 PBs as I once was, the novelty has kind of worn off. That said, I'll flip when I actually see one.
psates: Get a 12" You'll love it and you'll never want to go back to anything else. I span with a 19" CRT, I know you'd opt for the 23" LCD, even better :) The next revision should be the one for you, it'll be the last before these puppies get G5s.
Or give the iBook a decent video card and monitor spanning and be done with the 12" PBook all together....
DMBand0026
2004-08-10, 12:36
No good...IMHO. Why would you kill the most powerful and portable notebook that Apple has? Don't blur the line between pro and consumer that much. iBook is consumer, PB is pro. Don't soup up an iBook if you want to do pro work, get a PowerBook. How many people honestly think the iBook needs a better graphics card? And I'm not talking to the spec whores here, only those of sound mind. ;)
And I really do think all the PBs will go through one more revision of the G4 before we see a G5 PB in January.
I think it's pretty certain that the 12" will at least get the 1.5 GHz CPU with a better GPU attached in the next update. The 128 MB of VRAM doesn't really matter for the Mobility 9700, as it isn't a fast enough GPU to hit the wall even with just 64 MB of VRAM.
I predict the lineup will look similar to how it has in the last few updates - that is, have two CPU speeds, one for the combo drive and superdrive 12" models and the low-end 15" model, and one for the high end 15" and the 17". It's a nice setup. Low end speed should be 1.5 GHz minimum, 1.6 would be better. High end should be 1.8 GHz minimum, 2.0 would be better. The 12" should have a Mobility Radeon 9700 or GeForce 5700 Go (if they insist on nVidia), with 64 MB of VRAM. No more of this FX5200 crap. Higher end models get a Mobility Radeon 9800 with 128 MB of VRAM standard. I think they'll drop the option to custom-configure the amount of VRAM. They've already doubled the price of the upgrade for 15" 1.5 GHz PowerBooks.
It would be awesome if they offered 5400 RPM hard drives standard on some of the higher end models, and maybe had a 7200 RPM option for them. In fact, this is an area where Apple is behind the competition - most other companies' high end notebooks have at least a 5400 RPM hard drive standard, and many will offer 7200 RPM hard drives as standard equipment. As far as optical drives, Apple's got this down - three of the five models include 4x DVD burners, while many high-end PC laptops still use Combo drives (albeit faster ones than Apple includes on their own Combo drive models).
Finally, a 512 MB RAM loadout across the board would be a welcome addition. I think Apple should start putting this much in all their computers (except possibly the iBook and eMac).
iBooks are fine. Right now, the best thing Apple could do to them would be to include built-in bluetooth and 802.11g in all models. They've already done it for the PowerBooks, bringing them in line with the rest of the industry. Giving it to the iBooks as well would put them a step ahead of the competitors' low end notebooks, and would certainly earn them praise from the technology press when recommending notebooks for college students. Having a computer fully set up for wireless networking right out of the box for $999 is way better than having to buy a separate card for a $799 notebook, even if the separate card is really cheap.
How many people honestly think the iBook needs a better graphics card? And I'm not talking to the spec whores here, only those of sound mind. ;)
Well, the obvious answer is that the iBook needs a GPU update because of Apples upcoming additions and requirements in the next release of the OS. I'm not sure what other reason is needed for an iBook GPU upgrade.
-M
psmith2.0
2004-08-10, 12:42
Well that goes back to my question(s) from a couple of posts above: having all these new numbers don't necessarily point to an imminent release? :confused:
I'm not saying I'd advocate dropping the 12" PBook...but really, how much of a real difference is there internally between the iBook and 12" PBook?
Boost the iBook's proc speed up a smidgen, double the video card's speed and add monitor spanning (all except the latter will probably happen in the next revision anyways) and you'll essentially have a white PowerBook.
The PowerBook weighs just a little less. Plus, iBooks are always slower than PowerBooks. I don't know what it is, but I bet if you compare a 12" 867 MHz PowerBook to a 12" 1 GHz iBook, the PowerBook would be faster at just about everything. Their build quality is better and, of course, there's the Superdrive option that isn't present in the 12" iBook. And the 12" PowerBook has both Bluetooth and Airport Extreme built in, and a 5400 RPM hard drive option. And DVI-out instead of just VGA, so even if you do enable spanning on an iBook, it still can't run a Cinema Display like a 12" PowerBook can.
But yeah, other than all that, the iBook and PowerBook are basically the same ;).
The PowerBook weighs just a little less. Plus, iBooks are always slower than PowerBooks. I don't know what it is, but I bet if you compare a 12" 867 MHz PowerBook to a 12" 1 GHz iBook, the PowerBook would be faster at just about everything. Their build quality is better and, of course, there's the Superdrive option that isn't present in the 12" iBook. And the 12" PowerBook has both Bluetooth and Airport Extreme built in, and a 5400 RPM hard drive option. And DVI-out instead of just VGA, so even if you do enable spanning on an iBook, it still can't run a Cinema Display like a 12" PowerBook can.
But yeah, other than all that, the iBook and PowerBook are basically the same ;).Right, but other than the build quality, weight, internal speed adjustments, SuperDrive, built-in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme, faster hard drive, DVI-out instead if VGA, monitor spanning, processor and video card speed what have the Romans ever done for us?
:p
I love Monty Python (http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/life_of_brian-clip.html). :)
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 12:59
Have you guys seen the new ultra portable ipod mini speakers yet?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71801/wo/PD24E4572QtT2pSRTny1J0kyXlI/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.8.1.4.0.0.1.0
DMBand0026
2004-08-10, 13:00
My thoughts exactly. The PB is so much more capable of a computer. The iBook is crippled in a lot of ways. Point is, there really is no comparison.
DMBand0026
2004-08-10, 13:01
Have you guys seen the new ultra portable ipod mini speakers yet?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71801/wo/PD24E4572QtT2pSRTny1J0kyXlI/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.8.1.4.0.0.1.0
Right in the middle of the PB discussion :\
Uhhh, why? That's all I want to know. Why would anyone get something like that? Get a stereo mini system before you'd get something like that, the sound quality on those things has always been sub par at best.
Have you guys seen the new ultra portable ipod mini speakers yet?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71801/wo/PD24E4572QtT2pSRTny1J0kyXlI/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.8.1.4.0.0.1.0
:err: My thread has been Quag'd.
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 15:16
I am sorry that this thread did get quag'd. Back on topic, DMB made a good point to me on ichat. If they do give the 12" powerbook the 1.5 Ghz G4 the ibooks can't go faster because the G4 chip for the pbooks haven't either. Sure they can boost the top end 14" ibook to 1.33 Ghz but, to keep enough difference between the ibooks, they would have to cripple the low end at 1 Ghz. So because the possibility of not fitting the lcs in the 12" they kill the 12" pbook and put G5's in the rest of the pbook line. Then later in a year they bring back the 12" with the smaller lcs in it.
Seems possible to me, but it all depends on this magical cooling system that must be developed. In my opinion it might be a little too much to hope for, that they will manage to develop such a system so soon after the introduction of the full sized LCS. But thats just an idea.
I don't see what's wrong with a 1.2 GHz low end iBook and a 1.33 GHz high end. As long as the PowerBooks are at 1.5 or 1.6 GHz for the low end, that's fine.
What's LCS?
What's LCS?
Liquid Cooling System
That is also true, seems perfectly possible ratio of power between the two lines. I guess it all depends on what kind of muscle the next generation of Powerbooks will debut with.
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 15:34
I don't see what's wrong with a 1.2 GHz low end iBook and a 1.33 GHz high end. As long as the PowerBooks are at 1.5 or 1.6 GHz for the low end, that's fine.
What's LCS?
It might damage sales from the high end. People might just say," I can save $200 and have only 133 Mhz difference." I think you need at least a 200 Mhz difference to well spaced apart.
PS: LCS mean Liguid Cooling System
windowsblowsass
2004-08-10, 15:44
well ibm already uses liquid cooling in their laptops so it may happen.
LINKAGE (http://www.research.ibm.com/thinkresearch/pages/2001/20010808_cooling.shtml)
DMBand0026
2004-08-10, 15:55
Eh, who needs LCS when you can just make your laptops 2.5 inches thick? ;)
http://www.cheap-laptop-and-used-laptop-review.com/dell-inspiron-xps.JPG
Dell (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspn_xps?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&~tab=specstab), I'm looking in your direction :no:
Not only that, but it's 9 friggin pounds. Who wants to lug around a 9 pound monster? Not I...
Well, yes. We've seen that article here before, but that isn't exactly a liquid cooling system. Its more a head dissipation system using a metal with low specific heat index.
..from my understanding. I could be off base tho, please clear me up if so.
It might damage sales from the high end. People might just say," I can save $200 and have only 133 Mhz difference." I think you need at least a 200 Mhz difference to well spaced apart.
PS: LCS mean Liguid Cooling System
Why would it be a problem with the iBooks though? It doesn't seem to be hurting sales of 1.5 GHz PowerBooks, even though they're only clocked 167 MHz higher than their 1.33 GHz bretheren.
Or go 1.2/1.4 for iBooks, and 1.6/1.8 for PowerBooks. I think that would be fine.
:devil: :devil: :devil: Post #666 :devil: :devil: :devil:
Quagmire
2004-08-10, 16:40
Why would it be a problem with the iBooks though? It doesn't seem to be hurting sales of 1.5 GHz PowerBooks, even though they're only clocked 167 MHz higher than their 1.33 GHz bretheren.
Or go 1.2/1.4 for iBooks, and 1.6/1.8 for PowerBooks. I think that would be fine.
:devil: :devil: :devil: Post #666 :devil: :devil: :devil:
I was talking about the 1.2 Ghz ibook and a 1.33 Ghz ibook. Nothing to due with the pbook.
Oh, I know. What I'm saying is I don't think it would be a huge problem to have only a 133 MHz gap, because there would be more standard features on the high end model, and because it's not hurting PowerBook sales to have a mere 167 MHz gap. Then again, the older G4 iBooks had just 67 MHz separating the middle from the top model, and I suppose the top end ones didn't sell well, which is why they moved to the new strategy of just two speeds instead of three.
windowsblowsass
2004-08-10, 17:21
Oh, I know. What I'm saying is I don't think it would be a huge problem to have only a 133 MHz gap, because there would be more standard features on the high end model, and because it's not hurting PowerBook sales to have a mere 167 MHz gap. Then again, the older G4 iBooks had just 67 MHz separating the middle from the top model, and I suppose the top end ones didn't sell well, which is why they moved to the new strategy of just two speeds instead of three.
i believe that was the reason especially since the 933 was signifacantly cheaer than the 1ghz
I saw it also - but considering the G5 processor - a notebook would have to be huge...
Seems likely to me that the mobile G5 will (at least initially) be available only in the 17" PB. This is a great opportunity to differentiate the model line a little bit, and (in usual Apple style), make those who want the latest and fastest, go straight to the top end of the lineup.
Quagmire
2004-08-12, 14:35
Seems likely to me that the mobile G5 will (at least initially) be available only in the 17" PB. This is a great opportunity to differentiate the model line a little bit, and (in usual Apple style), make those who want the latest and fastest, go straight to the top end of the lineup.
Then explain the second Pbook number. I think the 12" and low end 15" will stay at a 1.5 Ghz G4 and the top end 15" and 17" pbook will go G5.
And LCS needs liquid... PC LCSs are large - very large (half the size of the PC)... You have to cool the liquid, not only transport it through the copper plate on the processor and the GPU. So... LCS seems impossible to me in a notebook.
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