Think Secret's News Reporting

[Messiahtosh]

I had the oppertunity to speak with Nick DePlume. His words are bold, mine are in this text.

==========
I disagree. My job is to report news to my readers. It's as simple as that.

so while i may see your point now and agree that your reporting is beneficial to everyone
when it comes to the illegality of
the retail stuff
there needs to be some judghement
nothing is cut and dry in this world
those who make it so
cut it up, and make it sry
dry
there needs to be some responsibility

Our judgment is that it's Apple's job -- not ours -- to promote Apple's best interests.

why do you exist?
what's in your best interest
Apple goes, so do you

Then so be it.

haha
sure

We serve to report news to readers. That's it.
have a nice day
Nice talking with you.

You need to survive too
nice talking with you

We're not going to hold back accurate news from our readers if it makes Apple look better.
Thanks for reading!

You make money off of Apple
they are your niche

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I look at this from the perspective of serving our readers with news, rather than from the perspective of lining my wallet.

i dont think you have to "line it"
idealism is a good thing
but
responsibility is different than what you do sometimes
you dont have very responsible sources do you?

If I was holding back news based on my own economic interest, I don't think that would be responsible at all, nor ethical.

and news is only as responsible as its sources, and yours break laws to bring you the news. Ethical?

I think our record speaks for itself. Good day.
--------

That conversation left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

[Luca]

So what's your point? That you're a jerk? :confused:

I mean... did I miss something here? What's wrong with ThinkSecret? I don't think they're breaking any laws by posting information from various sources of information from within Apple. They've always complied with Apple's requests for them to remove any content from their page, and it's the employee's decision whether or not they want to break their NDA. ThinkSecret has nothing to do with that.

[Messiahtosh]

So what's your point? That you're a jerk? :confused:That he gets his money and his news from people who break laws.

[Luca]

^^ See edit to my post. I edited after you replied. ^^

I still think that it's not ThinkSecret's place to be the moral compass. If Apple employees choose to break their NDA, so be it. TS just reports what people say.

And come to think of it, don't all major news outlets get their stories from people breaking laws? Most news stories you see on TV involve various illegal activities. So is your local news station immoral for making money through reporting a murder?

[Messiahtosh]

Maybe so, but I think it is unethical.

[Luca]

Maybe so, but I think it is unethical.
Some would also say it's unethical to post private conversations you have with people online. Apparently that doesn't stop you from doing it.

[Messiahtosh]

Some would also say it's unethical to post private conversations you have with people online. Apparently that doesn't stop you from doing it.I think it is unethical to reveal the specifications of products before they are available. It does not help Apple, it does not help us, it helps Think Secret. That's what I have a problem with.

[Maciej]

Yes, but unethical is the way of the media. It has always been so, and I don't think the public would be well informed, nor would it be the American way, if information gained in unethical ways was withheld from the public.

[Quagmire]

I think it is unethical to reveal the specifications of products before they are available. It does not help Apple, it does not help us, it helps Think Secret. That's what I have a problem with.

How many mac people look at ts. They are giving away info to a small percentage. It is always a day or two away so it doesn't hurt sales much.

[windowsblowsass]

fidgt, fight , fight! :lol:

ive got 2 bucks on messiahtosh in the 3rd round

[murbot]

If you think it's so wrong to do what Think Secret does, what the fuck are you doing here? And what were you doing at AppleInsider for so long?

These "look at this and tell me how right I am" shit is so old. Get a clue man.

[Luca]

fidgt, fight , fight! :lol:

ibe got 2 bucks on messiahtosh in the 3rd round
With Murbot in the ring? I'll put double on our Canadian friend.

[alcimedes]

I think it is unethical to reveal the specifications of products before they are available.

WOW! ThinkSecret has specs on new hardware. Kick ass! I'll reply later, gotta go read the new info!

[Messiahtosh]

I am here to discuss, and if information is leaked, I'll look at it. I just wish there would be more responsible ways of obtaining "inside information." Why can't the sources just say it directly, instead of giving it to a middle-man, who ends up reaping the benefits...

[Luca]

Oh, I see how it is. So they're unethical but you're still more than happy to go visit their site and read the information they put there.

:rolleyes:

[Messiahtosh]

Oh, I see how it is. So they're unethical but you're still more than happy to go visit their site and read the information they put there.

:rolleyes:Yes, I'll read it if it's available. I do not like the way they obtain it and make money off of someone's negligence.

[windowsblowsass]

im confused.

is this luca and murbot vs. messiahtosh or lucavs. messiahtosh or murbot vs. messiahtosh:confused:

i need to know i have to start making the odds :lol:

maybe messiahtosh can get a partner so there can be a tag team match?

[murbot]

No, he's here to get a little flamewar going so he can masturbate to it. It's just the way he is.

Too much auto-erotic asphyxiation as a kid.

[DMBand0026]

How many beers does he have in him? ;)

If it's > than 5, I got 20 USD on him :lol:


It's not unethical for TS or for anyone for that matter to report information that they have. TS being an internet venture as it is, it allows them a little more freedom in what they print, because you should always take what you hear on the net with a grain of salt.

Point is, it's not unethical, they have to make money, and that's how they do it.

[Messiahtosh]

I see it this way. There are 4 parties here.

1. Apple

2. The sources

3. Think Secret

4. Us

Why does #3 need to be there? Why can't #2 just post the information. Protection? There are ways to leak things without having to go through the ThinkSecret middleman.

[murbot]

At least Macintosh has class, he only posts songs about hating retards, and movies making insecure overweight kids grab their balls for movies that are "never going online".

:lol:

[Luca]

im confused.

is this luca and murbot vs. messiahtosh or lucavs. messiahtosh or murbot vs. messiahtosh:confused:

i need to know i have to start making the odds :lol:

maybe messiahtosh can get a partner so there can be a tag team match?
From what I can tell, it's Luca+Murbot+Alcimedes+DMBand0026+Sh0eWax vs. Messiahtosh.

:lol:

[Maciej]

Because theres so many sources we'd be checkin a million different places every day, for perhaps not even any update. Thats the job of the media, is a niche that must be filled.

[Messiahtosh]

At least Macintosh has class, he only posts songs about hating retards, and movies about making insecure overweight kids grab their balls for movies that are "never going online".

:lol:Why do you make things personal? Class? Re-read any one of your posts and try NOT finding a swear word, something about alcoholism, prostitution, masturbating, or retards for that matter.

[Maciej]

From what I can tell, it's Luca+Murbot+Alcimedes+DMBand0026+Sh0eWax vs. Messiahtosh.

:lol:

I'd say. Hehe

[Messiahtosh]

Because theres so many sources we'd be checkin a million different places every day, for perhaps not even any update. Thats the job of the media, is a niche that must be filled.Worker Bee?

[Quagmire]

From what I can tell, it's Luca+Murbot+Alcimedes+DMBand0026+Sh0eWax vs. Messiahtosh.

:lol:


You missed me. I willl go for messia's legs.

[murbot]

Yeah, I won't deny it. You bring out the best in people.

[murbot]

You missed me. I willl go for messia's legs.

dude give him a rock bottom.

[Messiahtosh]

Yeah, I won't deny it. You bring out the best in people.You are just mean.

[Luca]

Meh... I don't think murbot ever tries to be classy.

[kretara]

Move along!
Nothing to see here but a person caught up in an ethical delima of their own construction. :rolleyes:

[windowsblowsass]

theres going to have to be some kind of toranament at this rate:lol:

this is getting out of control

[Luca]

This is really out of control now...

Lockinated.

EDIT: Damn! Circumvented by alcimedes' l33tness!!!

[murbot]

You are just mean.

"If you're a retard I hate you, if you're gay I hate you, and if you're a Muslim, well, I kind of hate you..."

Damn, why can't I find your song so I can link it up!!

:lol:

[alcimedes]

places like think secret exist as a clearinghouse for rumors.

it's an easy way to have people go to a central source and pass on the information they've learned.

keep in mind that some people will have little bits of information, which by themselves are not worth all that much. however, when combined with all bits of information can provide a good idea of future products etc.

besides which, Nick acts as everyone's bullshit filter. in case you haven't read any future hardware/software type threads lately, you might notice that all sorts of posts are full of "inside" info.

yet TS seems to post amazingly accurate information. that's because Nick has the trust of sources, the resources to put their information to good use and pass it along to us, all while keeping the crap from making it to the front pages.

[alcimedes]

*whistles*


:D

[DaveGee]

I am here to discuss, and if information is leaked, I'll look at it. I just wish there would be more responsible ways of obtaining "inside information." Why can't the sources just say it directly, instead of giving it to a middle-man, who ends up reaping the benefits...

So said in another way... You don't mind eating the hamburger or wearing the leather belt and shoes but at the same time you don't want to kill the cow yourself nor do you want anyone else to profit from the cows death. If only we could teach the cows to commit Hara kiri - that would solve everything! :lol:

"responsible ways" of obtaining "inside information" No comment but this really made me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Why can't the sources just say it directly" - Simple! Would you want to loose your job and sole means of supporting your family just so you could publicly leak NDA'd insider information? I know I wouldn't! Most of this stuff comes either 2nd hand twice removed (friend of a friend of a friend who's Uncle works at Apple) or from someone that feels "insert_nda_info" is starting to become common knowledge via multiple locations and bunches of people and thus they can safely leak the info to someone like Nick without too much risk.

NDA breakers are an interesting bunch... As much as I like rumors (even the wishful ones) I'd NEVER leak something if I were under NDA - I know me, I'd get caught.... No doubt about it. I'm just lucky like that. :D

Dave

[Messiahtosh]

"If you're a retard I hate you, if you're gay I hate you, and if you're a Muslim, well, I kind of hate you..."

Damn, why can't I find your song so I can link it up!!

:lol:Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?

[Luca]

Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?
Hey man, alcimedes unlocked this thread along with a level-headed explanation. I'm hoping we can keep it on track, so please don't derail it again.

[alcimedes]

Hey man, alcimedes unlocked this thread along with a level-headed explanation. I'm hoping we can keep it on track, so please don't derail it again.

yeah bitch! :D

[Messiahtosh]

:lol:

[murbot]

Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?

I can't stand to see innocent people ridiculed and insulted. I just won't stand for it, asshole.

:lol:

[Messiahtosh]

:lol:

[AirSluf]

Ye reap what ye sows...

As to Nick (or anyone else) publishing material which a company (say Apple for example) holds as trade secret: the courts hold that once information is in the open, it is no longer a secret and further disseminating it is quite legal and therefore mostly beyond the ethical question as well. The SINGLE exception to this is if an entity is directly involved in creating the leak, such as committing/commissioning a specific illegal act to obtain the secret. It also means that once something is posted anywhere public on the internet, it is no longer secret in the eyes of the court and the only folks legally responsible would be those who did something illegal--like Worker Bee--not those who reported on it.

If a source comes to you without you being part of an illegal action you are legally in the clear. That does not protect reporting media from the expense of legal defense when pressured by a company who has lost control of it's secret and is why Apple is so successful with its cease and desist letters--even though the publisher would win (unless they commissioned an illegal leak) it is too expensive to fight off for small organizations.

Given that, the self righteous attitude Messiahtosh displays in judging Nick is unjustified.

Dude, you can censor and govern your own lifestyle however you want and feel happy with, but don't apply your artificially restrained legal and moral standards to other people in public judgment. Thats just bad form and impolite.

[Messiahtosh]

I'll judge what is bad form and impolite. ;)

[709]

That conversation left me with a bad taste in my mouth. :no: So does this thread.

*Just* when I think you might have a friggin clue....you post this self-masturbatory shite. Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

[709]

Gah.

Now that I've read the entire thread with your 'responses' and re-read your initial conversation with TS...

You get a big fat:

:no:




JesusGod. Go outside and buy a big beltbuckle or something. :rolleyes:

[psmith2.0]

Chris, you're an odd duck, and perversely fascinating.

You vacillate wildly between moments of borderline brilliance and staggering normalcy, then you go and throw a firecracker in it, and post the weirdest things with the weirdest premise and hook.

:confused:

Part of me wonders if you're like a digital, web-based Phil Hendrie, and the joke is all on us.

:D

These shaky arguments and all just seem to invite pile-ons.

Got a moral issue or ethical problem with rumor sites? Then don't read and support them. Otherwise you're engaging in a bit of a "I really hate crime, and after I pistol-whip this motherfucker and take his wallet, I'll explain why...".

:)

Personally, I don't have a problem with you. A nice guy, we chat and "converse" via the boards. But I gotta hand it to you...probably the most polarizing, can't-get-a-handle-on person I've ever run across.

Whether that's by design or not is still up in the air...

:p

I will say this: it's funny as hell to sit back and watch everyone respond, and enjoy a little mini-brawl. One thing's for certain...a good time and lively discussion is guaranteed for one and all. Nice to put yourself on the chopping block time and again!

:lol:

[Escher]

Maybe so, but I think it is unethical.

So, Messiahtosh, why don't you ride the hell out of here on your high horse? :rolleyes:

Kids.... :no:

Or should I call you a hypocrite or schizophrenic?

Escher

PS: Autsch. That hook with your flame bait left a bad taste (and tear) in my mouth. ;)

[LoCash]

That he gets his money and his news from people who break laws.
I haven't read through the whole thread to see if this was clarified, but the people aren't breaking any "laws", they're breaking a non-disclosure agreement. And he doesn't get his money from the people breaking that agreement, nor does he pay them. He gets money from the people that choose to advertise on his site. His sources are protected because the law says that they are.

It's nice to think that we all possess some higher moral superiority and can therefore go around telling off the publisher of a rumors site that he is not acting in good faith. When you stop to think about it though, I'm sure you've committed more morally and ethically heinous atrocities towards humanity than Nick has. It's really a pretty petty and ridiculous argument you brought up with Nick, and it's kind of embarrassing that one of our long time members was the one to do it.

Your reading his site actually makes him money that money, and legally, so before calling the kettle black next time, check the mirror to make sure you're not the pot.

[AirSluf]

I haven't read through the whole thread to see if this was clarified, but the people aren't breaking any "laws", they're breaking a non-disclosure agreement. And he doesn't get his money from the people breaking that agreement, nor does he pay them. He gets money from the people that choose to advertise on his site. His sources are protected because the law says that they are.

<snip>

Well, his sources may or may not be protected legally. Depends on where they got their information.

Breaking an NDA can theoretically be followed down the path of industrial espionage, which is really a form of fraud and therefore criminally illegal as well as civilly liable--re Worker Bee. For example, the old AI.com wasn't a source, just a repeater of information that came to them without NDA strings attached to AI.com directly. The source was at risk and did pay the price, just as Nick's sources could if the sources overstepped certain bounds and he blatantly hosed them over by passing along incriminating info. But I doubt he will as that would dry up the sources real quick.

There is a HUGE difference in legal protection for the reporter, which the source does not have if it is uncovered.

[LoCash]

ah, so listen to AirSluf on that, not me :)

[drewprops]

Congratulations Messiahtosh, you just won the Official Dipshit award for the month. What a dumbass thread. Just stop the car and walk away now.

I'm serious. Citizens' Arrest! Citizen's Arrest!

[Messiahtosh]

Chris, you're an odd duck, and perversely fascinating.

You vacillate wildly between moments of borderline brilliance and staggering normalcy, then you go and throw a firecracker in it, and post the weirdest things with the weirdest premise and hook.

:confused:

Part of me wonders if you're like a digital, web-based Phil Hendrie, and the joke is all on us.

:D

These shaky arguments and all just seem to invite pile-ons.

Got a moral issue or ethical problem with rumor sites? Then don't read and support them. Otherwise you're engaging in a bit of a "I really hate crime, and after I pistol-whip this motherfucker and take his wallet, I'll explain why...".

:)

Personally, I don't have a problem with you. A nice guy, we chat and "converse" via the boards. But I gotta hand it to you...probably the most polarizing, can't-get-a-handle-on person I've ever run across.

Whether that's by design or not is still up in the air...

:p

I will say this: it's funny as hell to sit back and watch everyone respond, and enjoy a little mini-brawl. One thing's for certain...a good time and lively discussion is guaranteed for one and all. Nice to put yourself on the chopping block time and again!

:lol:

Have you ever seen the movie, "Man on the Moon"? I have.

[Moogs]

Are you likening yourself to Andy Kaufman?

Anyway, "Nick" is a good guy. I've corresponded with him on a couple of occasions about non-rumor related stuff and he's a straight shooter. Your whole "profit" argument is kind of ridiculous considering that it's doubtful his income from ad banners and donations even covers his hosting expenses and time required to keep the site updated every day....

You speak as if he's made a cottage industry out of posting rumors and Apple news tidbits. Either way, I for one see nothing wrong at all with what he's doing. Certainly its legal both in terms of media law (which I know a decent amount about) and copyright laws.

I think you just like it when people contradict you. I can tell from your original post that you got a kick out of egging Nick on when he was clearly trying to say "goodbye!" to you.

;)

[SKMDC]

Have you ever seen the movie, "Man on the Moon"? I have.

ah so it's all a mad con eh?

that makes you a contemptuous asshole instead of just an asshole.

[Messiahtosh]

ah so it's all a mad con eh?

that makes you a contemptuous asshole instead of just an asshole.If those are the options, I guess so.

[FFL]

Mouthing off while obviously not having a clue makes you amusing... but pronouncing holier-than-thou judgments of people who were in this business when you were still taking naps on blankets in kindergarten, makes you amusing (in a Darwin Awards kinda way, in case you thought that was something to be proud of), pathetic, and obnoxious, all at the same time. If you really weren't out to push people's buttons, then you wouldn't keep starting such moronic threads.

I would say I think you'd fit in better on the previous Think Secret boards than here (I bet you'd have a really kewl avatar!!), but I wouldn't want to insult them like that.

[FFL]

I think you just like it when people contradict you. I can tell from your original post that you got a kick out of egging Nick on when he was clearly trying to say "goodbye!" to you.
;)
That sounds like a classic textbook definition of a Troll to me. And it sounds pretty accurate as well.

[Messiahtosh]

FFL,

I prompted Nick to answer me, to see what his philisophy is. I realize now, that yes I obviously do agree with the guy and everyone else's stance on the issue of the ethics involved with rumor reporting. I am here, arent I?

I apologized to Nick later on, but things were already out of control in here, but what am I to do about that now? I fueled the fire, I'm not proud of it, but what's done is done. I sometimes dig deeper into a hole because I already get into one then think, "what's a little deeper gonna do?" Sometimes I just fall into my own traps.

I sometimes argue a point, that I dont even agree with, to validate the point that I have agreed with all along. When people get pissed at my "stupidity" they sound off and make very intelligent remarks, building a case for why "my" thoughts are absurd. I am clearly able to see, in plain text, what my own line of thinking is, that I could not put a finger on before. It's like reverse psychology.

Sorry peeps.

[alcimedes]

and on that note i'm going to hope that everyone can drop this. pretty please. the next asshole post gets someone a user title thought up by jack.

thank you messiah for the nice clarification here at the end.

[SKMDC]

reverse psychology?

more like your "member status" handle.

[psmith2.0]

And...scene!

:D

That's also a hallmark of these little episodes: after 2-5 pages of massive piling on and brutal verbal assaults, Chris "realizes" his error in judgement, explains it all away in a paragraph or two that I can't even fully comprehend upon four readings...and the seas calm a bit.

Until next time...

:err:

As for the "Man on the Moon" movie, I've seen bits and pieces. Not a fan of Carrey or Kaufman, so the incentive to watch one lunatic play another wasn't there. I did enjoy the scenes with Marilu Henner. Meow (http://www.sercerphotography.com/celebrities/photos/marilu_henner.jpg).

;)

Oh, and I learned a new word/phrase today, thanks to - I'm assuming - LoCash and his alteration of Messiah's custom title...

I wonder how many Google searches for "dementia praecox" there have been this morning?

:D

[Moogs]

That's also a hallmark of these little episodes: after 2-5 pages of massive piling on and brutal verbal assaults, Chris "realizes" his error in judgement, explains it all away in a paragraph or two that I can't even fully comprehend upon four readings....

...I wonder how many Google searches for "dementia praecox" there have been this morning?

:D


He should be honored. It's almost like an Ars title. :D

[SKMDC]

I wonder how many Google searches for "dementia praecox" there have been this morning?

:D
i did mine last night, although i thought he* gave it to himself, kudos to locash, quite apropos.


*edited

[Akumulator]

Soooo what is Messiahtosh now trying to save face by saying it was all a reverse psychological experiment? He showed himself as an assface, that's all.....nothing more to see here.

btw, Andy Kaufman was a genius...... Messiahtosh? :\

[Barto]

What can I say. He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

[Messiahtosh]

Soooo what is Messiahtosh now trying to save face by saying it was all a reverse psychological experiment? He showed himself as an assface, that's all.....nothing more to see here.

btw, Andy Kaufman was a genius...... Messiahtosh? :\This is a message board, I repeat...

[LoCash]

This is a message board, I repeat...
I'm pretty sure that everyone here is quite aware that this is, in fact, a message board.

[DMBand0026]

I'm pretty sure that everyone here is quite aware that this is, in fact, a message board.

Crap...

<DMBand shuffles off to find another hobby before his girlfriend realizes how big a geek he is>

Crap...she already knows. But she thinks it's "cute" :confused:

[_Ω_]

Hasn't this horse been flogged enough???

[murbot]

Yes.

Time to lock the dead horse up.

http://www.etriggers.com/gallery/logo.jpg