Next Powerbook rev to have a dual core processor G4?

[Quagmire]

According to the register freescale is planning to show off its dual core G4 at an event in October. The processor would have a speed of 2 Ghz. Freescale says it is a solution if apple can't roll off a pbook G5 by the end of the year. But, freescale is most likely showing a prototype. Wouldn't it take longer to test it more and ship it into quantity? I would see the chip ship in quantity by summer 05. I can only believe the pbook G5 would be out by then. What do you guys/gals think?


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/dual-cores_detailed/

[marischal]

Would be nice, an order from Apple for one of their designs will keep Motorola sweet too.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Other than the G5's 64bitness, I think a dual-core G4 running at 2GHz would smoke any G5 that you could actually put into a PowerBook. One caveat though, it depends on the system buss, is it still constrained to 200MHz?

[Henriok]

One caveat though, it depends on the system buss, is it still constrained to 200MHz?It won't. Supporting DDR2 it should compete with x86 offerings in memory bandwidth.

I don't think the e600-MP will emerge before next summer, and the next Powerbook upgrade will have whatever is replacing the 7447A.

[windowsblowsass]

if AMD is reay to unveil theirdual ore chip i cant imagine im is much behing=d after all amd uses ibm fabs. there has to be a trade of there somewhere

[bassplayinMacFiend]

if AMD is reay to unveil theirdual ore chip i cant imagine im is much behing=d after all amd uses ibm fabs. there has to be a trade of there somewhere

Freescale is Moto's old chip fab. I don't think they use IBMs fabs at all.

[psmith2.0]

I'm not hip to the tech jive...what is "dual core" and what does it mean? Dual processor?

:confused:

I hear it talked about a lot lately, why is it good? What is it?

[Luca]

I'm not an expert either, but I know a bit. From what I gather, a dual-core processor actually has two processors in a single chip. Now, the CPU daughtercard in dual-processor PowerMac G4s had two CPUs on a single chip, but imagine taking each little square processor and dividing it in two. I think that's kind of what it's like.

[Messiahtosh]

Dual Core is when there are two interconnected processors, but not dual processors.

For example, you could have a dual core, dual processor system. This is good because it is more efficient than having just 2 separate processors, like the dual systems we know today.

It's like having one head, working with the power of two brains.

Am I close?

[Quagmire]

I'm not hip to the tech jive...what is "dual core" and what does it mean? Dual processor?

:confused:

I hear it talked about a lot lately, why is it good? What is it?

A dual core is one processor with two cores. So you have two processor performance in 1 processor. It even could perform better then a dual processor because of the shorter links to access the cores.

[Messiahtosh]

To sum up:

A dual core chip is like 2 brains working in one head.

A dual processor, dual core chip would be like 4 brains working as two heads.

And so on... :smokey:

[windowsblowsass]

Freescale is Moto's old chip fab. I don't think they use IBMs fabs at all.
actually ibm built a fab sprcifically for amd so amd has to owe them considerably, also freescale is motos old chip division not a fab they are now their own company although owned by moto.

pscates: like quag and 'tosh said a dual core is two chip cores on a single chip and they generally perform 10-20% better than dual chips they also use less power

[IslandHopper]

2 cpu's on one piece of silicon .... faster than today's dual CPU systems in some respects, slower in others ...

The dual-core chips share the same bandwidth to and from the rest of the computer (ram, HD, video, etc)... with todays dual G5's, each processor has it's own bus to these components, so it should be faster for things like large file Photoshop editing and video rendering, etc.

- B

...I ain't often right, but I never been wrong!

[FallenFromTheTree]

Motorola adds dual-core G4 to PowerPC roadmap
By Tony Smith
Published Wednesday 4th June 2003 11:16*GMT

Motorola is preparing a next-generation two-core G4-class PowerPC processor, the company will this week tell attendees of its annual Smart Networks Developer Conference, held in Disneyland Paris.

The chip, as yet unnamed - at least in public - will contain two PowerPC cores with AltiVec, Motorola's SIMD engine. It will also contain its own memory controller, capable of connecting to DDR and DDR 2 SDRAM, according to documents seen by The Register.

It will interface with the rest of the system using Rapid IO, the next-generation chip-to-chip bus developed by Motorola, but offered as a standard to the embedded processor industry. Given Motorola's Rapid IO heritage, support for the bus isn't surprising - indeed, on sales collateral produced earlier this year, the company's roadmap features a new chip, called the G4+, with Rapid IO built in.

However, the chip will also support "general purpose IO" - presumably a reference to the 745x family's current bus, MPX - so the processor is clearly being designed with backward compatibility in mind.

The G4+ that appears on the January roadmap will be fabbed at 0.1 micron, the sales sheet says, and will feature a "higher level of integration" than previous G4-class CPUs. As of January, the G4+ was simply a proposal to Motorola chiefs, but from presentations Motorola will make this week at SNDF, that the chip has been given the green light.

As one presentation says: "We are putting a dual core PowerPC on our roadmap," and that a "high performance dual core is on our roadmap in a manufacturing process that provides a cost-effective solution." That suggests a 100nm as per the G4+ or, more likely, 90nm process .

The chip is some way off, with a 2004 appearance at the earliest. Motorola's roadmap shows the company will split the G4 family next year into two lines: one featuring "integrated" parts, the other "discrete" chips. So Motorola still sees the value in offering straightforward processors without the extra IO and memory manager functionality.

Whether that's because it still sees Apple as a potential customer isn't known.

The dual-core processor is said to be "capable of going up to 2GHz" with 25W of power dissipation at 1.5GHz. By contrast, the upcoming 7457 dissipates 30W at 1.4GHz. Those are Motorola' numbers, based on a 7457 with a 1.6V core voltage. Motorola's dual-core presentation doesn't give a core voltage, but it's likely to be around the 1.6V mark.


Apple watchers dismissive of that 2GHz target should bear in mind that Motorola's SNDF event targets the embedded market, the focus of the company's sales efforts. Motorola supplies Apple 1.25GHz and 1.4GHz 7455 processors - with part numbers like XC7455ARX1250PF and XPC7455BRX1400PF, respectively - but officially the 7455 only goes up to 1GHz.

The 7457 officially maxes out at 1.3GHz, but that's a frequency intended to appeal to embedded processor makers. The version offered to Apple is likely to clock much higher, though whether Apple takes it or not is another matter - it may prefer IBM's 64-bit PowerPC 970.

The bottom line is that Motorola almost certainly can offer significantly higher clock speeds to its desktop customers, even though it doesn't generally discuss such products, presumably to indicate its strong focus on the embedded market.

That applies as much to future dual-core parts as to today's G4-class CPUs, and Motorola believes it can offer such a chip at high clock speeds yet keep it within today's chips' power dissipation levels.

Achieving that will be Motorola's 90nm silicon-on-insulator (SOI) fabrication process (HiPerMOS 8-SOI) and the company's use of low-k dielectric materials, as we reported yesterday. HiPerMOS 8-SOI is due to come on stream early next year. Beyond that, during 2005, Motorola will transition to HiPerMOS 9-SOI, its 65nm process, which also pulls in thin-film SOI techniques. AMD is working with IBM on something similar (see AMD 'super' SOI to boost chip speeds by 30%). ®


Like AMD64 CPUs, Freescale's dual-core PowerPC is expected to sport an on-board memory controller, this one capable of supporting DDR 2 SDRAM, along with a Gigabit Ethernet controller. It is also expected to use the Rapid IO bus, according to past Motorola pronouncements, though MPX bus support is also anticipated to maintain backward compatibility.


The dual-core PowerPC may also mark the next major leap in Mac notebook G4 processors before Apple gets G5 chips from IBM that are capable of integration into a top-spec portable computer.


According to the MPF schedule, Freescale's dual-core chip will scale beyond 2GHz. The chipmaker's roadmap indicates that the part will be a member of the e600 series. It is also working on a G5-style e700 processor that combines 32-bit and 64-bit operation.

Freescale also has a faster successor to its top-end G4, the MPC 7447A - used in Apple's PowerBook G4 notebooks - in the works.

AMD, meanwhile, will discuss Toledo, its dual-core Athlon 64 FX, which is scheduled to ship in H2 2005. IBM's dual-core 'Antares' CPU, possibly set to ship as the PowerPC 970MP, will be available around the same time, as will Intel's Smithfield dual-core Pentium 4, it is believed. Neither IBM nor Intel are set to discuss their dual-core plans at MPF, but Intel is likely to reveal more at Intel Developer Forum in early September. ®