View Full Version : Apple Marketing (not what you think this is)
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 15:08
Apple's marketing is terrible, no not their TV or print ads, their website is awful.
Take a look at the mini cooper website www.mini.com for an example of expert marketing. Apple needs to do something similar, to walk people through a purchase, and show them what upgrades do and what benefits they have for the customer.
Apple needs to do something about the fact that, for example, my dad can not go to the Apple online store and understand why he should upgrade to an 80 GB HD over a 40 GB one...I doubt he knows what a Gigabyte is.
Apple should be concerned about educating potential customers. I'm sure there are people out there that just dont know anything about computers, but decide to buy one, and get the cheapest one because they dont know ANYTHING about it. Apple needs to have a more informative buying experience.
If I'm not mistaken, Apple's webpage has not only received multiple awards, but is widely recognized as having one of best designed webpages in the tech industry.
Of course, that's inconsequential to their marketing strategy, but still, I think Apple's Web presence is fine, but, it's the print/television..blah blah, that is creating a bottleneck.
Of course, a little technopedia never hurt anyone, but it shouldn't compromise the web site at large.
That said, Apple is supposedly working on a *major* web site revamp, I don't know much more than that little tidbit which was leaked almost a year ago, so I dunno.
Apple's marketing is terrible, no not their TV or print ads, their website is awful.I think you've got it ass-backwards there 'tosh. Apple's website is easy to navigate, loads fast and has as much info as anyone would need to know on their products. Maybe your Dad should read about the actual item he's interested in before getting all the way to the checkout page. He might learn something...even what GB means. :\
Apple's TV ads are marginal, their print ads are a bit more informative and nicely designed (imo) and their website is simply tops.
psmith2.0
2004-08-24, 15:33
I think the "major update" has, instead, been trickling out gradually, wrao. Those nice little active PowerBook pages and things, where info is easily accessed from one spot and a more unified look across product sections.
:confused:
I think it was just some subtle refinements and some "under the hood" stuff? Some slight visual tweaks, but I wasn't under the impression that the joint itself was getting a massive redesign/new look.
Although, with the success of the 487 home redesign/redecorating shows clogging the airwaves, who knows...
:err:
I wouldn't mind an apple.com based on the overall look and feel of Paige Davis' (http://www.noceilingfans.com/imgs/paige2.jpg) butt.
:p
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 15:59
The website is not geared towards the people that we all claim should be using a Mac but are not. Apple needs to explain and identify the reasons for upgrades, and show what type of things most consumers will do with certain configurations.
HA! Good one paul
I think you're correct, that apple is gradually changing things, that's kind of how they've always done it I think. like the whole "white" motif, or the aluminum thing, all that came along pretty gradually, but now it's everywhere.
Eitherway, I wouldn't mind seeing a new apple.com frontpage, but that said, the current one is pretty masterful, very much like the el capitan case, I don't see how they could possibly improve that design. The g5 case is great and all, but it's still way bigger, way heavier, and less lickable...um...I've said too much
:lol:
The website is not geared towards the people that we all claim should be using a Mac but are not. Apple needs to explain and identify the reasons for upgrades, and show what type of things most consumers will do with certain configurations.
Care to cite some specific examples from apple.com that are lacking in your good marketing criteria?
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 16:16
Care to cite some specific examples from apple.com that are lacking in your good marketing criteria?Yes.
The buying page is fine, but once you select a product and start BTOing it, things get confusing for some people. When you click on an option like hard disk size, there should be an explanation that goes with each level of upgrade.
Something like this:
30 GB Hard drive (Standard)--Great for a music library, text documents, photos, and....
60 GB Hard drive (BTO)--Great for everything the 30 GB is but is more capable as a video editing computer....
Just something like that, something that really explains why there is added cost to an upgrade.
MacUsers
2004-08-24, 18:14
30 GB Hard drive (Standard)--Great for a music library, text documents, photos, and....
60 GB Hard drive (BTO)--Great for everything the 30 GB is but is more capable as a video editing computer....
I think that is the most annoying thing ever when I go on Dell's site.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 18:16
I think that is the most annoying thing ever when I go on Dell's site.Because you know what the difference is, some people don't and would find it helpful.
You're going to have to come up with a lot more examples, hopefully many of which are substantially better, to justify your argument. If the hard drive size explanation is all you've got, or if the rest of them follow similarly, it's a pretty weak stance.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 19:08
You're going to have to come up with a lot more examples, hopefully many of which are substantially better, to justify your argument. If the hard drive size explanation is all you've got, or if the rest of them follow similarly, it's a pretty weak stance.I do not agree with that.
alcimedes
2004-08-24, 19:22
so what's the "learn more" link mean to you?
i'm sorry, but you can't market away ignorance. hell, i think a lot of folks would say that marketing is the source of most computer ignorance.
ex: Ooh, a 2.5Ghz P4 will make the interweb faster!
this is another one of your "This thing sucks, and i don't really have a good reason to explain why, but i'm going to tell everyone they're wrong." threads.
do you ever learn?
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 21:45
The website is not great for attracting new buyers, I explained why. Why is there such defense over the website? It is a nice layout, it is easy to figure out and navigate, I just think it lacks in-depth explanations about the products.
Apple is sellng a needle in a haystack, they might as well explain why it is worth finding that needle.
The thing is you didn't explain why! You said it was because they don't tell you how many more cool photographs you can store on a 60GB drive, and we basically believe that if that is all you got, this thread is going to be locked by dawn. Not because we think it's stupid (though we do), but because the rest of the boards are going to come in here calling you on it and then we'll have to lock it.
Pony up some more ideas, maybe some with actual substance...
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 21:55
I have two different computers, one has access to AI, one does not...believe what you want, whatever.
The Apple website is not in-depth, that is the main problem with it. The one chance that they have to break out of the cutesy, cheesy, and simplistic marketing style, they fail to use. The "Switch" tab has gotten terrible, and some of the links within it do not even work anymore.
Do you all think that it is the perfect website?
We don't think it is the perfect web site, but not in depth? Again, pony up some bloody examples here. All you keep doing is making blanket statement with nothing to back it up. God save you if your college papers are written that way.
Examples. Concrete examples. Personally, I find the product sites at apple.com have too much information; too much text. I'm never going to read it all, I just skim to the tech specs. And for your average consumer, there seems to be enough marketing babble there to impress enough people. I don't get the fucking problem.... maybe because there isn't one, and maybe because you're not providing any fucking examples of any.
psmith2.0
2004-08-24, 22:00
It's pretty close to it, Chris. While you won't find a bigger critic of Apple's print/broadcast advertising than yours truly, I don't have a single problem with the website.
I look at it quite a bit (just there a little white ago, boning up on the Cinema Display specs and details).
If you follow enough links, you'll wind up at the forums or Knowledge Database area, or support areas. All the products - hardware and software - seem to get generous space and details (I can't even fully comprehend all the G5 tech talk).
Even on programs or hardware I know nothing about (Logic and the Xserve, for example), there's enough there that I don't really feel like I'm missing out. I get what they are, what they do, whether or not I'd be interesting in purchasing them (I'm not), etc.
I'm not piling on at all. I just truly don't agree with your position and, honestly, don't fully grasp what your beef is.
I can think of 50 sites more info-lacking and half-ass than Apple's!
Their site rocks as much as their commercials suck.
:)
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 22:06
There should be a better way to go about buying.
Here is my idea.
You click a button that says, "thinking about making a purchase?" It then takes you through diagnostic steps to help you figure out your needs.
It could ask questions such as, "Would you like to use a computer while on-the-go?" "Will you be taking pictures with a digital camera?" "Do you want to be able to make DVDs?"
All of those questions could help turn out a better idea of what a person might need, than just going in and wading through all of the options without considering your needs..or even forgetting some.
alcimedes
2004-08-24, 22:06
again, what's the problem with the "Learn More" link below the options that users can change?
Messiah likes the online forum gangbang.
I'm a jackass, why? I think a diagnostic buying process would be awesome.
And a good number of people would be offended by it. The way I see it, if you're too dumb to know what a GB is, then you aren't going to be able to find a "want to buy a Mac?" link. It's the old theory that no matter how idiot-proof you make something, there will always be a better idiot.
The only way to get someone like that to go through this "diagnostic buying process" would be to have it automatically go into that when you click the buy link for a computer. There's already plenty of information about the products and their capabilities on their product pages. Ever heard of www.apple.com/ibook, or maybe www.apple.com/emac? They provide plain language explanations of the capabilities of those computers. They also have "buy now" links that take you right past the store's front page, and pictures of the different models with big, bold prices. You click the button for the one you want. If someone is using it who doesn't know anything, they'll just click through instead of selecting BTO options. If they're too dumb to figure out how to click through, then they need a lobotomy or something because it's one of the easiest websites to navigate.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 22:38
What does a computer salesman try to do? They diagnose what you need, based on what you want to be able to do. Sometimes they are offensive and try to sell you more than you need, sometimes they are very helpful.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 22:41
So you think that people go to Apple.com knowing what to buy, all the time? And if they do go in without any information, the site will help them in every way possible to determine what they need?
Quagmire
2004-08-24, 22:47
If the customer would click on the hardware thing in the home page they will see all the hardware apple makes. They can click on each one and read what the computer is best at. So after they read the computer description they decide where there needs fall under. It is easy as that.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-24, 22:52
I think we know that it is easy, because we are not uninformed and have used the site for many years. Yes, it is easy to navigate, we're not arguing that.
I just think everything is ok now (maybe not awful like I said), but could be a whole lot better.
psmith2.0
2004-08-24, 22:55
Chris, I'm just not sure how much hand-holding is to be expected from Apple.
I mean, as Luca pointed out, each main product has a fairly generous (4-6 pages) section devoted to it. Things like the iLife suite are worked in and discussed and all the things like Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, FireWire, iTunes, Safari, etc. are all hit on at one point or another.
No one can afford to be a complete dumbass nimrod and go blithely clicking through the "buy" buttons without knowing a little themselves on the front end.
The BTO options aren't really that extensive on the consumer-level products anyway, so I'm not sure how it would even help. The product sections talk about what can be done. Those buying G5s or PowerBook, hopefully, are a little more advanced in their knowledge of what a gigabyte is and how buying more of it might be a necessary thing (if they're video or graphics professionals, for instance).
I think it's a non-issue and a problem that doesn't really exist. At least not anywhere to the extent you've built it up.
Some schmo wants to buy an iBook? Let him. If they're smart enough to get to apple.com to begin with, I have faith that they know if they might need 20 more GB of hard drive or add a Bluetooth adapter. And if not, that's what the "learn more" button is there for.
What, exactly, do you want? Whatever "problem" you perceive is kinda already handled, as far as I can tell. I was just there and it didn't dawn on me as "lacking important information".
:confused:
I have to say that I've found Apple's web presence to be lacking for a while. This is not to say apple.com has an awful design, most computer vendors have ass-tastic websites, Apple's is more then a cut above the rest in this case. However, here's a few of my primary gripes:
1. The hardware is vastly undeserved by its presentation. Apple makes great toys, when they release a product and post it to the website why is it so had to give us an idea of what it looks like? All those aluminum and white plastic casings come off looking like they have been airbrushed in. How difficult is it to give us a high resolution pic of the machine, or a movie for that matter? Those quicktime VR's Apple has look like ass.
2. Speaking of Quicktime would it kill Apple to throw a little animation and interactive menu at us now and again? I think it's admirable that the site is low bandwidth compatible but 56K is sooo '99 guys. Really, anyone ever hear of Flash?
3. The support site needs help. Half the time I can't find the article even though I know it's there, nuff said.
4. There were a few comments about hand holding earlier. OK, Apple is trying to sell computers here, pander to the freakin customer!
5. The website just isn't any fun!
Here's a few that have some really enjoyable design. I selected these sites not because they are analogous to apple.com but to point out what apple.com is lacking:
http://www.miniusa.com/
http://www.studiosoi.de/
http://www.tokyoplastic.com/
http://www.cbcradio3.com/
;)
Messiahtosh
2004-08-25, 01:05
That's a good point, about how it is hard to get a good idea (from Apple.com) of what an Apple product is like in real life.
That's a good point, about how it is hard to get a good idea (from Apple.com) of what an Apple product is like in real life.
Silly rabbit, that's what the iPod is for.... :lol:
Messiahtosh
2004-08-25, 01:12
Silly rabbit, that's what the iPod is for.... :lol:What?
What?
A good number of people have (or have used a friend's) iPod, and have thus experienced an Apple product first-hand, without even having gone to Apple's website.
IMO, I think Apple's web site is informative and designed well in comparison to other manufacturers. They sell products based on usage (the iLife suite), not just on specs.
I don't know how you can possibly talk about "pandering to the customer" and "56k is so '99" in the same post. Most people still have dial up, because high speed is both more expensive and not available everywhere. Now, I don't see how people can spend $40-$80 a month on their cable TV and mobile phone but not be willing to spend $30-$40 a month on high speed internet instead of $20/month AOL dialup, but I guess that's how it is. I really hate flash websites even though I have a fast connection.
The one part where I really agree with you, naren, is the lack of real pictures of their products. It would be nice if they had some shots of their computers and other hardware "in action" instead of having the stock 3D rendered ones. But that is a minor concern.
SilentEchoes
2004-08-25, 08:41
http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html
Apple's hardware section has PLENTY of babble in it about all of their hardware products. I actually enjoy reading through the marketing. Maybe I should buy a book and go on vacation :\
Regardless. If you try and cater to people who don't know a thing about computers you end up with Wizards, and wizards are the devil.
SilentEchoes
2004-08-25, 08:51
naren flash would never work on a site with that much content. It would be damn near impossible to get to anything. Personally I go there to read stuff about their computers and make buying choices. Thats what their website is for. I don't want menus and crap flying all over the screen while I'm trying to make sure the bus speed on the iBook is only 133MHz. Their website is not a toy. Its not meant to be fun.
They do have some hi-res pics at apple.com/pr but you are right. It would be kick ass if they added a hardware gallery with a bunch of different shots of their computers. BUT to me anyways when I am buying a 3000 dollar computer the looks are the LAST thing I look at.. How much would this hardware gallery really help sell computers?
psmith2.0
2004-08-25, 09:07
I agree. I tend to hate sites like that. I love going to a site like Apple's. It's just THERE, and works and loads.
I've honestly gotten to the point that when I see a "loading..." graphic at the start (and all kinds of shit flying around and making noises), unless it's a site I REALLY want to see, I'm outta there.
:rolleyes:
When it's done well and actually serves a purpose, it's great. But I see way too many sites that just have crap popping up, sliding down, pulsing, flying, moving, making sounds, etc. Annoying as hell.
Just load and let me get to where I want and shut up. :D
Now, my friends aren't retards...well, I mean teens may be considered retards. ;)
Now, 5 of my friends did go and get computers themselves. At least three of them, less then computer pros :lol: They didn't seem to have any trouble at all. If anything should be fixed on Apple's site, I think they should make the education link more of a priority. I think students seeing they can get things cheaper would be an excellent move for Apple.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-25, 10:15
Very true, too many people just don't know what is at their fingertips as far as the education discounts are concerned.
Very true, too many people just don't know what is at their fingertips as far as the education discounts are concerned.
Completely true.
So when are you paypaling me that $50 for helping your argument? ;)
I'm temporarily closing this thread to clean out the off-topic crap from everyone. :grumble:
Okay, I'm reopening this thread since it is still a legitimate topic for discussion: how can Apple's marketing on its web site be improved?
The next person to throw a personal attack gets banned for a day.
Messiahtosh
2004-08-25, 11:02
With all of the video capabilities included with software that Apple makes, like Motion and Final Cut, you would think they could create some pretty stunning infomercial type deals, viewable on the website. I think that would be pretty neat, and a good use of Apple's very own applications.
drewprops
2004-08-25, 11:09
I'm torn between both camps here. The site should never turn into a flingy-whingy beep-da-ba-doodle pointless Flash site, but some interactive Flash presentations could be remarkable. Let me play with a virtual iPod for goodness sakes. Let me get inside that G5, via a nice illustrative diagram...something that's beyond the nice staid imagery. Stay away from finding yourselves mired in proprietary code though, so no all-Flash site. Just special Flash content.
And no whizzy beepy crap please.
And, much to my shock, I have to agree with Messiahtosh that perhaps a "dumbed down" caption for each purchase option would be good. SilentEchoes "wizards are the devil" made be bust out laughing, 'cause it's true....but some mappy hedium could be struck for those who are truly clueless. Some "hold my hand" feature that you can turn on before beginning a BYO session.
Wonder of wonders, I'm sure this is the last time this strange alliance will occur. At least, I pray it is. ;P
DMBand0026
2004-08-25, 15:48
I don't even know if this is OT anymore, but if you think Apple's website is bad, just go to www.dell.com, you'll want to go right back to apple.com and give it a kiss. Just like Apple products, Apple.com Just Works® ;)
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